Blocking and Style Specific Defensive Movement
0
posted07/07/2004 07:57 PM (UTC)by
Avatar
tgrant
Avatar
About Me
Project MKK: Coming soon...

Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
Member Since
02/10/2003 04:01 PM (UTC)
Since MK began, whenever a character blocked, they’ve blocked with their hands and arms. I’d like to see characters using the different parts of their bodies to block. So low attacks could be blocked by the legs rather than having to suddenly lower yourself and crouch block.

Some characters also have armour and I think it’d be cool if shin pads and any other armour on the opponents legs or knees could be used as a defence. They would be used more against weapon attacks. They would simply raise their leg slightly in order to block the weapon blows with this armour. In raising their leg, they could also parry with it knocking the weapon away and kicking the opponent in the face or chest at the same time.

Now for some styles, defense is all apart of the movement. Wing Chun will be the example I use. In it, low attacks are not always blocked. Instead they are stepped over. It would be nice if this kind of movement was put into MKD and you could step over the opponents low attack and then attack or send them off balance. Also, high attacks are usually caught or deflected.

A typical scenario when using the stepping over defence can be shown if you play against Kung Lao in MKDA. In Mantis he has a low kick attack called the Toppling Kick (b+3). This kick sees Kung Lao turning to his side and stretching his leg in order to kick. If blocked or avoided, the kick has a serious lag time. Using the stepping over movement, you could either step over his leg and then going into a combo attack, or you could bring your own leg up and trip him up sending him onto his back. You could also do the latter by stepping away and swinging your leg and tripping him up.

Also, instead of launching into a combo after stepping over the low attack, you could simply attack from the side or maybe lock the opponents leg or arm in between your own as a way of punishing them for their mistake.

As for deflecting or catching high attacks, these are more a means of parrying the opponents attacks from Wing Chun. You wouldn’t be able to launch into a full combo, but you have enough time to launch a damage attack after sending your opponent off balance or knocking their attack away. A quick but punishing jab would be effective here. And then you’d need to be quick and be on the defensive again from your opponents incoming attack.

Using these techniques would allow you to block or rather evade attacks without taking any damage but you can retaliate and hurt the opponent.

Your thoughts?
Avatar
Siduu101
07/06/2004 04:40 PM (UTC)
0
That's a wonderful idea but remember what Ed said."It's easy too come up with the ideas but it's actually too convert an idea from your head into the game is where the challenge is."
Avatar
Raiden_is_God
07/06/2004 04:47 PM (UTC)
0
Ya its not a bad Idea but can it begun is the question. But it would save the hassle \of crouching to block
Avatar
FLSTYLE
Avatar
About Me

FLStyle Personal Twitteromegaasylum.com Updates Twitter Omega Asylum - Home of FLStyle - Video Game and Media Blog

07/06/2004 04:58 PM (UTC)
0

Siduu101 Wrote:
That's a wonderful idea but remember what Ed said."It's easy too come up with the ideas but it's actually too convert an idea from your head into the game is where the challenge is."


doesn't matter whether they can be done or not, the point of it is to voice our ideas and see what others think.

Good idea, it would be great to use the timing of your legs instead of using crouching defensively, this could be a better use for the shoulder buttons instead of power-ups.

I agree about the armour, if they're gona be wearing them they might as well have a use, exchanging better defense for the speed you'd have without wearing them, you could customise it depending on what sort of player you are, armour for the defensive countering type or no armour for the speed fighters who charge, attack and get back to a safe distance.
Avatar
titanwarrior
07/06/2004 05:00 PM (UTC)
0
that is a great idea, it is time for an innovation for blocking techniques. nice call!
Avatar
Toxik
Avatar
About Me
07/06/2004 05:26 PM (UTC)
0
I liked this idea, I think is really good! smile
Avatar
krsx66
07/06/2004 06:41 PM (UTC)
0
Good ideas tgrant. I REALLY like the blocking with your feet instead of crouching and BLKing. Cus if u watch real martial artisits (Jackie Chan does it alot) they often block opponents kicks with their own feet, then attack on the counter.

Also if your opponent attack low, maybe your fighter could break fall/dive roll out of the way. Another thing I would love to see are backflips off the walls (ala Sub Zero vs Liu Kang in MK1 movie) and other such innovative escapes.

Simple moves, such as the throw Raiden does to Liu Kang (also in the 1st MK movie) in the scene where Liu is back at the temple, and doesnt believe its Raiden. Just quick throws.

Maybe more take-downs are needed as standard moves every character possesses, trips and throws (Judo moves especialy) so if an opponent attacks, you can use their own momentum against them.

I apprectiated the conversion to real martial art styles in MKDA, but I'd still like to see a few additions, moves u see in martial arts movie fight scenes. I think it would really add to the fun of the gameplay!
Avatar
Mk_FrEaK
Avatar
About Me

Are you good enough in MK stuff? prove it!
#mktrivia - IRC Channel Operator. Si entiendes esto, Chinga a tu madre!

07/06/2004 07:04 PM (UTC)
0
Another brilliant thread tg, i have to agree that the blocking needs a little bit more of realism and i really agree with the fact that we need to use the legs to block as well as the step blocking technique. I also thought about the weapons blocking, i mean it is impossible to block a sword with just your arms, it hink that if youre gonna block a weapon attack you may need to hit the blade to another direction or to grab i with your hands isntead of just crossing your arms and block. What do you think?
Avatar
stevodastoppa
Avatar
About Me

rehab is for quitters...

07/06/2004 07:13 PM (UTC)
0
I really like this idea, it would make it more like the fighters actually knew what was happening. You could make L1 be high left block, R1 could be high right block, L2 could be low left block and R2 could be low right block. I know this would be more complicated but you could do combinations such as L1 and R1 for blocking all in the top but it might not counter as well if you had just used one. then they could also change some of the attacks so that they went more towards the left or right depending on what you pushed.
Avatar
Wanderer
07/06/2004 07:19 PM (UTC)
0
...Nearly all of these have been elaborated on in the VF4:E vs. MK:D thread.

tgrant Wrote:
Since MK began, whenever a character blocked, they’ve blocked with their hands and arms. I’d like to see characters using the different parts of their bodies to block. So low attacks could be blocked by the legs rather than having to suddenly lower yourself and crouch block.


You never said whether this was automated blocking or not. This could very easily screw you over with sweeps unless you elaborate on this.

Some characters also have armour and I think it’d be cool if shin pads and any other armour on the opponents legs or knees could be used as a defence. They would be used more against weapon attacks. They would simply raise their leg slightly in order to block the weapon blows with this armour. In raising their leg, they could also parry with it knocking the weapon away and kicking the opponent in the face or chest at the same time.


Basic idea. That's a counter hit.

Now for some styles, defense is all apart of the movement. Wing Chun will be the example I use. In it, low attacks are not always blocked. Instead they are stepped over. It would be nice if this kind of movement was put into MKD and you could step over the opponents low attack and then attack or send them off balance. Also, high attacks are usually caught or deflected.


This has been elaborated on a few times. The main problem is that Midway really isn't using the styles the way they're suppose. Quite frankly, I don't think they know or care. Judo and Muay Thai were heinous in MK:DA. Hell, Hapkido was almost nothing like the style.

A typical scenario when using the stepping over defence can be shown if you play against Kung Lao in MKDA. In Mantis he has a low kick attack called the Toppling Kick (b+3). This kick sees Kung Lao turning to his side and stretching his leg in order to kick. If blocked or avoided, the kick has a serious lag time. Using the stepping over movement, you could either step over his leg and then going into a combo attack, or you could bring your own leg up and trip him up sending him onto his back. You could also do the latter by stepping away and swinging your leg and tripping him up.


Basic. Combo setup.

Also, instead of launching into a combo after stepping over the low attack, you could simply attack from the side or maybe lock the opponents leg or arm in between your own as a way of punishing them for their mistake.


Joint locks (particular throws) don't exist in Mortal Kombat yet.

As for deflecting or catching high attacks, these are more a means of parrying the opponents attacks from Wing Chun. You wouldn’t be able to launch into a full combo, but you have enough time to launch a damage attack after sending your opponent off balance or knocking their attack away. A quick but punishing jab would be effective here. And then you’d need to be quick and be on the defensive again from your opponents incoming attack.


Also basic. That's a counter hit.
Avatar
FLSTYLE
Avatar
About Me

FLStyle Personal Twitteromegaasylum.com Updates Twitter Omega Asylum - Home of FLStyle - Video Game and Media Blog

07/06/2004 07:28 PM (UTC)
0
I have to admit I was wondering why these weren't being posted in the After playing VF4 etc. thread

Everyone is saying oh brilliant thread again and all this but there are just as good and better ideas in that thread mainly by Bleed + others that are going unnoticed, because there are completely new thread being made over 1 or 2 new ideas, seems a little unfair to me.
Avatar
MaxDam
Avatar
About Me

07/06/2004 07:52 PM (UTC)
0
Great ideas indeed for the blocking system! But I would love to see hits being avoided aswell, like if you are pressing the block button while the oponent try to hit you with a highkick, you should dodge back. Or when the oponent try a sweeping, you could lift up the leg,.. Shenmue and Enter the Matrix are the perfect example of what I'm trying to explain.
I also wish projectiles weren't blockable.. as they are easy enough to sidestep using this new engine.

The blocking should be hit specific too.. throwing up your arm in time to block a swift roundhouse and counter.. and combo specific blocking animations. I'd also like to see some clashing along the lines of SC.
Avatar
sumixam
Avatar
About Me

MK7 best ideas, 1. CSF 2. POT 3. MKG - contact for indepth description

07/06/2004 11:49 PM (UTC)
0

FLSTYLE Wrote:
I have to admit I was wondering why these weren't being posted in the After playing VF4 etc. thread

Everyone is saying oh brilliant thread again and all this but there are just as good and better ideas in that thread mainly by Bleed + others that are going unnoticed, because there are completely new thread being made over 1 or 2 new ideas, seems a little unfair to me.


2 comments by me. Firstly that thread turned sour for me personally because of a select holier than thou few trying to tell everyone who liked MKDA that they are basically stupid for liking it, not having any idea what a real fighting game is etc,etc.

(By the way not you or Bleed. There are a few that communicate well. Others are shocking)

Secondly, the thread is too long and difficult to read. There is enough stuff in there to have it's own forum. If only you can convince the staff here to create a forum aimed at improving the MK franchises then you can individually break down each improved gameplay suggestion into seperate posts. This would make the whole thing reader friendly and each point both good or bad, open to debate. It could cater for the endless new character/arena/fatality concept threads as well.

Just imagine if the MK team visited this site to find a forum titled, "MK Improvements suggestions from the fans". I do believe they would check it out.

As it is now it's a disorganised rabble.

Unfortunately by starting a new forum now though there'd be little else to discuss in MKD forum, besides it's sending the message that the game needs lots of work before anyone has even played it so perhaps it could be started upon the games actual release.

By then there will be genuine MKD discussion as well since we'll be playing it.
Avatar
Wanderer
07/06/2004 11:57 PM (UTC)
0

sumixam Wrote:
2 comments by me. Firstly that thread turned sour for me personally because of a select holier than thou few trying to tell everyone who liked MKDA that they are basically stupid for liking it, not having any idea what a real fighting game is etc,etc.

(By the way not you or Bleed. There are a few that communicate well. Others are shocking)

Secondly, the thread is too long and difficult to read. There is enough stuff in there to have it's own forum. If only you can convince the staff here to create a forum aimed at improving the MK franchises then you can individually break down each improved gameplay suggestion into seperate posts. This would make the whole thing reader friendly and each point both good or bad, open to debate. It could cater for the endless new character/arena/fatality concept threads as well.

Just imagine if the MK team visited this site to find a forum titled, "MK Improvements suggestions from the fans". I do believe they would check it out.

As it is now it's a disorganised rabble.

Unfortunately by starting a new forum now though there'd be little else to discuss in MKD forum, besides it's sending the message that the game needs lots of work before anyone has even played it so perhaps it could be started upon the games actual release.

By then there will be genuine MKD discussion as well since we'll be playing it.


The thread is very long and difficult to read, but I'm a little more than pissed that people don't even pay attention to what we (the regulars of the VF4:E thread) pitch. A lot of the people in there started out bashing us for the topic, and then when we explained to them what we were doing, they even began to pitch ideas themselves and came to like the topic.

People like tgrant who are popular will always get the majority rule and praise, which is unfair to me when others were first to coin it.

As for your idea on the improvements forum, I will ask the administration myself about that idea. (don't worry, you'll get credit. It was your idea afterall) It might go through, but there might be something preventing them from doing so.
Avatar
sumixam
Avatar
About Me

MK7 best ideas, 1. CSF 2. POT 3. MKG - contact for indepth description

07/07/2004 12:02 AM (UTC)
0
Mate I don't want any credit.

I just would like to be able to read all the input more easilly and be able to respond.

That one long thread IMO should be closed and a new forum started.

The best parts copy and pasted into individual posts so they can be debated individually and on topic, which I sincerely apologise for going off now.

Cheers.
Avatar
FLSTYLE
Avatar
About Me

FLStyle Personal Twitteromegaasylum.com Updates Twitter Omega Asylum - Home of FLStyle - Video Game and Media Blog

07/07/2004 12:05 AM (UTC)
0

sumixam Wrote:

FLSTYLE Wrote:
I have to admit I was wondering why these weren't being posted in the After playing VF4 etc. thread

Everyone is saying oh brilliant thread again and all this but there are just as good and better ideas in that thread mainly by Bleed + others that are going unnoticed, because there are completely new thread being made over 1 or 2 new ideas, seems a little unfair to me.

2 comments by me. Firstly that thread turned sour for me personally because of a select holier than thou few trying to tell everyone who liked MKDA that they are basically stupid for liking it, not having any idea what a real fighting game is etc,etc.

(By the way not you or Bleed. There are a few that communicate well. Others are shocking)

Secondly, the thread is too long and difficult to read. There is enough stuff in there to have it's own forum. If only you can convince the staff here to create a forum aimed at improving the MK franchises then you can individually break down each improved gameplay suggestion into seperate posts. This would make the whole thing reader friendly and each point both good or bad, open to debate. It could cater for the endless new character/arena/fatality concept threads as well.

Just imagine if the MK team visited this site to find a forum titled, "MK Improvements suggestions from the fans". I do believe they would check it out.

As it is now it's a disorganised rabble.

Unfortunately by starting a new forum now though there'd be little else to discuss in MKD forum, besides it's sending the message that the game needs lots of work before anyone has even played it so perhaps it could be started upon the games actual release.

By then there will be genuine MKD discussion as well since we'll be playing it.


Well everyone in America will be I'll have to read all the messages about the game and everyone's expierences on it while all us Europeans have to wait till a month later sad more than enough time for everyone to become better before us lot.

That would be a good idea, having a separate forum, but I suppose it would be too complicated for it to work.

Oh well carry on as normal, but less of the Tgrant is so great and he comes up with brilliant ideas and threads, we all already know how much of a genius he is don't give him ideas tongue
Avatar
sumixam
Avatar
About Me

MK7 best ideas, 1. CSF 2. POT 3. MKG - contact for indepth description

07/07/2004 12:12 AM (UTC)
0
It will suck waiting flstyle but I am gonna express post the thing from the states I guess so I may only have to wait a week longer.

When we catch up maybe we'll be able to form a Commonwealth team to take on the yanks! (Subzero and Sektor in the same team,lol)

To the topic for a moment. Tgrant hows about Raiden having some kind of defensive shield where if he gets it up in time and his opponent strikes, they writhe away in agony after receiving a big electric shock!

Avatar
SpYoFDaEaSt
07/07/2004 01:14 AM (UTC)
0
Very good idea
Avatar
tgrant
Avatar
About Me
Project MKK: Coming soon...

Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
07/07/2004 07:18 AM (UTC)
0

Mk_FrEaK Wrote:
Another brilliant thread tg, i have to agree that the blocking needs a little bit more of realism and i really agree with the fact that we need to use the legs to block as well as the step blocking technique. I also thought about the weapons blocking, i mean it is impossible to block a sword with just your arms, it hink that if youre gonna block a weapon attack you may need to hit the blade to another direction or to grab i with your hands isntead of just crossing your arms and block. What do you think?


Thanks bro!

And yeah, that would be better. If your going to grab the weapon it'd be best to do that with both hands and lock it in your palms.

Wanderer: I haven’t read that thread and regardless of how basic the ideas may seem, it’s the presentation and how well they’d be implemented that counts at the end of the day.

tgrant Wrote:
Since MK began, whenever a character blocked, they’ve blocked with their hands and arms. I’d like to see characters using the different parts of their bodies to block. So low attacks could be blocked by the legs rather than having to suddenly lower yourself and crouch block.

Some characters also have armour and I think it’d be cool if shin pads and any other armour on the opponents legs or knees could be used as a defence. They would be used more against weapon attacks. They would simply raise their leg slightly in order to block the weapon blows with this armour. In raising their leg, they could also parry with it knocking the weapon away and kicking the opponent in the face or chest at the same time.


Yeah I like this, it would save having to crouch down and block.

When the characters with armour, spikes on them etc block, I think it should do damage to the opponent. But cause' they have an advantage - it should be done that it takes a while for them to actually block. The characters without armour etc, should be really quick and easy to block, but counters not as strong

Avatar
TomTaz
Avatar
About Me

"Retirement my ass!"

07/07/2004 11:33 AM (UTC)
0
Great ideas Ty! That would actually do to mimic real martial arts, which in some styles a lot of the blocking is done with Various parts of the body not just hands and legs...also Some styles do rely more heavily on evading and traping rather than blocking and it would be good, for realism's sake if characters with these styles, reacted that way instead of with blocks. VERY good Thread Ty...then, yours always are.
Avatar
FLSTYLE
Avatar
About Me

FLStyle Personal Twitteromegaasylum.com Updates Twitter Omega Asylum - Home of FLStyle - Video Game and Media Blog

07/07/2004 12:00 PM (UTC)
0

TomTaz Wrote:
Great ideas Ty! That would actually do to mimic real martial arts, which in some styles a lot of the blocking is done with Various parts of the body not just hands and legs...also Some styles do rely more heavily on evading and traping rather than blocking and it would be good, for realism's sake if characters with these styles, reacted that way instead of with blocks. VERY good Thread Ty...then, yours always are.


An example of what I was saying earlier.
Avatar
LK9T9
Avatar
About Me

07/07/2004 01:19 PM (UTC)
0
Thats a great idea it would make the game way more real when we spar in Karate and in tournaments we blocl round houses and hooks and fronts with lifting your like axposing your outer thingh the touffer part og your leg.
Avatar
tgrant
Avatar
About Me
Project MKK: Coming soon...

Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
07/07/2004 06:59 PM (UTC)
0

TomTaz Wrote:
Great ideas Ty! That would actually do to mimic real martial arts, which in some styles a lot of the blocking is done with Various parts of the body not just hands and legs...also Some styles do rely more heavily on evading and traping rather than blocking and it would be good, for realism's sake if characters with these styles, reacted that way instead of with blocks. VERY good Thread Ty...then, yours always are.


Thanks, Tazzer! What you said is exactly what I'm talking about. Maybe some of the styles in MKD will actually incorporate a little of this. It would add to the realism and be a little more fun.
Pages: 2
Discord
Twitch
Twitter
YouTube
Facebook
Privacy Policy
© 1998-2025 Shadow Knight Media, LLC. All rights reserved. Mortal Kombat, the dragon logo and all character names are trademarks and copyright of Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.