danadbab Wrote:
Dave ~ yea i do think every attack should be safe. all you gotta do is press the proper counter button and your good to go. this system worked well for Killer Instinct 2/gold. im not explaining it well, but clearly all of those mid pop ups that come out super fast need to be removed.

playing online one guy can get away w/ doing a move to you, then you try the same move and you cant get away w/ it because you arent safe like your foe. i can see if this was a offline game like Tekken where folks meet up and play tournaments and stuff. sadly MK will never be like that.

Scorpion is High Tier because of his safe mids. if one character has useful safe attacks every character should.

we gotta remember this is the mk team that is creating this game. your ideas are great. the mk team clearly cant create a balanced game.
In MKA there are stances that have zero mids in them, and some characters have zero useful mids. Frost for example has 2 mids one is a low poke O_o the other is a 2nd hit from a super slow 2 hit attack.




Bleed ~ they really didnt change the button lay out. 2 punch buttons 2 kick buttons.

danadbab Wrote:
Dave ~ i am picking up Tekken DR. its gonna be online. dont you remember me saying in a thread in the ps2 forum. "Jade-own, you & myself are gonna rep TKO on Tekken soon!!"

so yea im getting the new tekken. ill have the ps3 in a month. hopefully the DR update is out by then.

question, i know i can download a version of the ps so that i can play T3 on my computer. my question is; should i download it to get a feel of how tekken plays? or is T3 and T:DR different?

i played Tekken a long time ago, but i never got skilled w/ it. i button mashed alot

m2dave Wrote:
I'm posting my opinions keeping off-line gameplay in mind.

I seriously don't see what is wrong with MK:A's parry system (aside from the fact that it has been implemented in the poorest possible way and that its animations look horrible). I was worried that MK:A's parry would be too safe, and thus, very spammable, but it's anything but spammable. You mis-parry, you get punished. You parry, you get the reward of following up with any attack of your choice. If anything, MK:A lacks a low parry. A high/mid parry (like the one in MK:A) has no business parrying low attacks.

The only thing I don't like is the parry's notation because I've accidently parried so many times while backdashing and simultaneously trying to block. Thus, in my opinion, MK's block button needs to be removed completely. Blocking should just be "b". A high/mid parry should be "b+R2" while a low parry should be "d/f+R2".

Some of you also seem to confuse a reversal with a parry.

When an attack is reversed, a character does an automatic attack (usually some kind of throw). However, when an attack is parried, a character deflects or evades an attack allowing him or her to do any attack of his or her own.

( Only read this shit below if you have some prior knowledge of frames in fighting games, and Tekken... )

Now, if you want to make the parry system a lot deeper, you can do that according to the attack you just parried; that means, different advantages/vulnerabilities will be present depending on what attack you just parried. Here is an example with Tekken 4 Jin...

Jin in Tekken 4 can parry (notation is b+2+4). He deflects any attack (except the ones Namco has made "un-parriable") thrown at him. He gets more advantage from parrying "hard-hitting" / un-safe attacks (such as Paul's QCF+2 or Heihachi's f,f+2) than he gets from parrying "softer-hitting" / fairly safe attacks (such as generic d/f+2, WGF, EWGF, etc.). This all leads to the moves Jin can do after his parry to punish his opponent (since advantage differs). In MK:A that is non-existent of course; whether you parry a completely safe attack (such as Dairou's b+4) or a completely un-safe attack (such as Quan Chi's Escrima, b+1 off-line that completely freezes him when it is blocked) makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. In other words, the advantage is always the same, and you may follow up with any attack you like regardless of the move's safety when it is parried. Jin's Tekken 4 parry ended up being broken due to its immense safety (i.e. when he mis-parries he's still safe 99% of the time). That is why safe parries don't work. They create nothing but turtle and parry fests, not to mention mismatches for those people who suggest them so eagerly.

The same is true for low parrying. Low parying low punches (even though they're "special mid" in Tekken) gives you a +16 advantage (meaning you can do an attack that is 16 frames or faster, and in Tekken's case, the attack must be a mid one since low parrying results in your opponent being in a crouching state). Low parrying kicks, however, gives you a +17 advantage (meaning you can do an attack that is 17 frames or faster, and in Tekken's case, the attack must be a mid one since low parrying results in your opponent being in a crouching state, and sometimes even off-axis, which may prevent you from doing certain attacks because they will whiff).

Karate asked me to give my take on parries, that's my stand on basic and advanced parrying. I hope it wasn't too confusing.

m2dave Wrote:
Like I said, the parry is fine. One of the truly dumb things is that it parries certain low attacks for whatever reason.

Throws aren't really over-powered in MK:A (they certainly were in MK:D, though). I talked to Check and we both concluded that a ducked throw in MK:A off-line is a free throw for the other player, and even a juggle starter if you're fast enough. The lag online just makes it so you can throw all day and still be safe.

Throw escapes would be nice but they would need to add more throws then. If there is only one throw, then everybody will know what to press to escape it making the throw useless.

bleed Wrote:
Then what would be the point of doing the lesser effective of the 2 throws?

For looks I guess...

Having the same break for all the throws is = to making any attack whether it be high Med or low able to be blocked with either H or L block. It doesn't matter because anything blocks anything.

It will dumb the game down even further.

Apocalypse27 Wrote:


Add more throws? In what way specifically?

And if you have a universal command for throw escaping, what difference would it make if there was more than 1 throw available? Because if you're suggesting that there be different throw escapes for different throws, then I have to disagree with that, because then it would be to insane to work with that.

It's one thing to have the throw escape available to you, it's another thing to time it right. Adding in different types of throw escapes and throws would make people go crazy. I wouldn't see any problem having each character have 2 throws, but 1 universal throw escape, so long as the input command s aren't to simple, but not to difficult.

KARATE Wrote:
So now going back to Reversals.

I swear it would be the best thing for MK8. I mean the whole idea of being able to reverse throws and or reverse low hits and or high hits. Also,Make it so EVERY move can be reversed. When i played MKA,I would always know if my opponent was going to block low or high. The problem was i forced to just block there hit then they would just jump back and then they would be safe. Annoying! So instead with Reversals i would of got that that round. I could of just revered there low and punished.

I read them, so i deserved the counter right? In MKA its not like that at all. You have to wait for a parry or a wake up and its just rediculous. Not to mention the throwing in this game....

The throwing mechanism as Check and dave stated is a joke. If you go to grab me and im ducking,Then i go to throw you,Its 100% FREE everytime! It is because there isnt enough frames to let me or my opponent duck react to a missed throw. I hate that alot. So its like we are fighting and i know your going to throw me so i duck,then you go to duck,but because of the frames it doesnt allow you to do it fast enough and then i get a freethrow.

Now with Reversals,You would be able to just reverse the throw instead of eating a throw evereytime i duck your throw. So i will finish by saying i love the feedback and im sorry i havent posted here in awhile but i just came across these things a little bit ago.

The main thing that makes me mad....

A missed throw=Free throw.

Sad.

Reversals FTW!

GhostDragon Wrote:
They have to be performed with relative simplicity to where when you're attempting to perform one move and mess up, you don't accidently do a reversal. I'm speaking in terms of how you do parrys in MKA and how they can spontaneously come out at the worst times.

I saw a lot of this while watching a friend play yesterday. He nearly broke my controller in frustration of seeing the parry come out when he didn't want it too.


Ghostdragon

KARATE Wrote:


Yes i agree.

I have done this alot as well. Its cause Parrys are set to be done with Back+Block. I would say for high and low Reversals,They should have there own buttons, that way there is no confusion whatsoever.

For instance,Maybe use the only button that is not used in MKA for anything. The L2 button. Lets see...How about making High Reversals by just pressing L2 and then then have low Reversals with L2 (while holding) Down? It would take some time to get used to,but it would be alot easier to perform and therefore there wouldnt be any "Accidental" attempts.

What you think?

GhostDragon Wrote:
Hell, why not use the L2 button? Using it as the initiation for reversals and other buttons could be used to continue them based on how complex they might be.


Ghostdragon

KARATE Wrote:

The throwing mechanism as Check and dave stated is a joke. If you go to grab me and im ducking,Then i go to throw you,Its 100% FREE everytime! It is because there isnt enough frames to let me or my opponent duck react to a missed throw. I hate that alot. So its like we are fighting and i know your going to throw me so i duck,then you go to duck,but because of the frames it doesnt allow you to do it fast enough and then i get a freethrow.

Check Wrote:
1) parry cancel destroys any chance of you throwing me even out of my blocking animation hence why mka > mkd with this alone.

m2dave Wrote:
Karate, for the 1000th time, the parry is not broken in MK:A. And why would I ever parry Kung Lao's weapon, b+3 when I can block it and punish it easily? Online you're forced to parry it because the lag makes the move really safe. Otherwise, block low, launch and juggle.

The throws are fine the way they are. The risk/reward ratio is how it should be. If it connects, it connects. If it misses or gets ducked, you're getting punished.