I think that High and low reversal is a great idea....

but the thing is is you can recover after the reversal and be 100% safe
then everybody will do only reversal all fight long.... and not fight anymore
that will be boring as hell... if it's too safe.

i think.. if you think your opponent is going to hit you, you do a reversal,
but if you miss, i think it's normal to have a little delay before you can block.

But to have 2 different reversal for the High and low hit would be awesome !!

I didn't play MKA online. From what I remember I didn't use parrys that much. I didn't take MKA very seriously. It was just a party fighting game with lots of characters to me. I do agree however the reversal would be much better.

I want them to scrap the whole fighting engine and all it's ideas. They should start from the ground up.

Actually,I disagree.

I think there would be a set limit of Reversals you could do before you would have to wait a few frames to do the next. You understand? The Parry System is forever. Over and over again with some delay yes,But still you can do them alot. For Reversals it would be different so you could just spam all day Reversal after Reversal. So therefore it would be a legit idea.

KARATE, first read this and tell me what you think.

I haven't gone back to revise or change my ideas... yet (I will soon), but this thread got me thinking about how low reversals could be employed.


Ghostdragon

I like your idea of a new fighting engine and a new blocking mechanism. But how could we reach Midway with these different ideas? Is there a way? If so,How would they know how to change it? I seen that your thread is like 10,000 years old. So i didnt reply in it.

How long have you thought of this idea? I mean in MKDA some characters had high Reversals but nobody had Low ones, i believe that having a new form of reversals could change MK as we know it. Ed Boon says he is starting from scratch. We shall see...

There are people from the MK Team that read the boards, though I don't know how often they come around or even know who they are. But they know where to find MKO.



Really every since MKDA came out and I got a chance to look at the blocking scheme. It was the parries that really fueled my interest in seeing something vastly different. They were stagnant even though I liked that they though about the idea of using them. Having watched a shit ton of martial arts movies and practice gung fu myself, I thought that something a bit more dynamic could be created and I know Bleed has written a lot of posts that are along the same theme; something more realistic, fluid and adaptable. Actually, he had a very interesting in-depth idea concerning blocking and attacks. I forgot where that thread might be.

Honestly, though I would really like to see something like this implemented in a the next MK game, I'm not really sure it'll happen. Eh... but I've started to sketch out a concept for a fighting game, so if it ever were to be liked by a developer (who knows), my blocking/parry scheme would most likely go into it. Though, I really need to revise it looking at the novel I worte in that old thread.



Hmmm... that reminds me, I'll need to talk to you Check and Dan about this, but not now. Maybe when we first hear something about MK8. PM me if you want to know what's on my mind.


Ghostdragon

im down for it gd, its just gonna be heavily on me for alot of things

it might take a loooong time to compile and not be worth it with a new engine, they need actual bodys there handling their own games for them ( dan check you karate )

agree with everything nest said and its the same thing i said to you on aim.

making a limited reversal system is not a good idea, sorry shaun.

did they make theparrys incredible unsafe? yes they did, you also cant jutsu or anything after you recover, only block, so you can still get thrown.

loosen up that area

other area i told u was ( and is the main reason i dont play mka ) make everything parryable. they made the game too confusing otherwise, and mostly forcing you to use unsafe,shitty moves because they arent parryable.

yea i dont wanna get too offtrack here, nor do i know anything about parrys or how they should work, but im sure i dont need to remind you of parry canceling, the method you are suggesting is already in the game, minus the ability to parry unless you pc like 5 or 6 times in a row. ( ive seen you parry me EVERYTIME doing IPC, and i was telling mr s about it he couldnt believe it )

i think when there is lag and the connection is shitty and makes parry safe, thats how parrys should recover, not too fast.. but not as fucking slow as they made it offline, horrible and useless.

and i also think alot of the way moves recover online is how they should recover offline ( minus the lag of course ) but thats a whole different thread..

not sure what else i missed. but i will throw 2 other things out there then im out

1) they need to lose the block button, in some ways its better,( ss+ block at the same time, same as any other direction you want to move in,except back block in mka = very bad, you need to be able to press back and block )
but its leading to blocking before being hit and still getting hit. not even enough reaction time to reach your finger to press the block button,since you constantlyhave your finger on the dpad it could be much easier to react, while i cant say for sure because im not a game tester/developer for midway. i just hope they give it a try, or create some sort of option to choose whether you want a block button or not

2) reversal button!!!!!!!!! wasnt there one in mkda? awesome shit!!!! DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE ABILITY TO BACK AND BLOCK. you ruined mka by doing this, being able to back and block is part of spacing and being able to duck faster. for instance, if i think you are about to throw me, or hit me. i can press back and block and move back a step and block that hit if i didnt move back enough. in mka, if i press back and block ill do a parry, and i cant block or do anything but cancel it. ( as i mentioned they have a nice little system already ) and duck. ducking isnt always gonna save you, it leaves u open mostly to lows. then mids ( which are blockable while ducking using midblock but not easy for alot of players and other reasons ) or throws ( HUGE GLITCH SINCE MKD, THROWS ARE NOT DUCKABLE ON REACTION. if u move in on me, and i press block, i cannot avoid the throw. this is why instead of a block button, i can move and use sidestep or whatever else, and constantly have my finger on the back button. ) add a reversal button, and utitlize all 4 directions during gameplay and not just 3 and eliminating the most important part: being able to back and block!!!! do it again and im returning mk8

im out

later

also i forgot to mention, make a universal parry. not one for high and one for low, again that makes the game too confusing

I know what would be good to have in MK8 is the run feature.

Check,Your saying that having High and Low Reversals are irrelevant? Instead your saying to just have a better Parry system to where all the moves can be parryed? Honestly man,I dont agree. You said it yourself "The Parry system destroyed MKA" MKD was WAYYYY better IMO because of being able to Back Dash Block. Now i do agree with the fact of having 1 button either Reversals and or Parrys like you said,But ONLY if it has its own button.

MKDA did infact have a Reversal for some characters. Some of them had "Powerups" and i believe others just had a "Special Throw". Now if EVERYBODY in MKDA had a Reversal,I believe it would of made the game alot more Balanced. Dont you think? I mean look at it like this,If MK8 focused more on actual gameplay and not the look of Characters or the look of Special moves maybe the next MK would be a top seller! I cannot tell you how many ppl loved MKDA and hated MKD and MKA. So i say focus more with the ways of MKDA with Reversals,Make a New fighting engine,All new slate. I can almost guarantee MK8 will be a blast.

One more thing. PLEASE take away the ranking system for online play. Its a joke. People are able to just poull there Ethernet cord or just quit and never get a loss. So the ranking system is flawed and nobody either bothers with it. I would actually like to see it work properly and you have to actually be good in order to get it. I know that was off topic but since we are talking about New fighting engine and all new things i figured i would throw that in there.

Ghostdragon,Ill be sure to PM you right around the time that MK8 comes out. I definitely want to hear your ideas. I just wish we had more voices. I like the idea of knowing that some Midway employees actually see this stuff we are saying. But we need an attention getter.

Do you think this could get stickied? Maybe it would make the difference. If only Ed boon would see what we are saying. I mean we are the fans who pay for the game and play it to its full potential. I believe we should have some say so in what needs to be worked on.

Dont you think?

im saying it if i were to make how i would want to play it. do i think others might enjoy my ideas, i certainly hope so.

thats what im saying man, but thats not all i was saying, ( ask dave from countless hours of ideas we've had ) in mka what can you do other then d4 again? everything is avoidable, you can parry anything that comes at you. THIS IS HOW THEY WANTED YOU TO PLAY THE GAME.

take away that special skill and ability to parry things? yes, in a game where its nearly impossible to counter things. ( without broken moves with ridiculous range that you dont even have to walk in for them ) thats pretty much what the game breaks down into. neither player able to hit each other.

"parrys destroyed mka because of the combos u were able to do off them" is another one of my quotes. it gave too much recovery for the person who got parried. it needed more block stun.

now moving on to my other other idea SINCE MKD. and pretty much i said this to you over the mic yesterday with jade. move canceling.

last night you canceled jades 3 in fan zi, i dont know how u did but u did.

its the same thing i was telling you on the mic about parry canceling. if you see me do a move, youre gonna try to parry it. but you cant tell im going to do a parry cancel instead! same deal here. if you go to parry when i do a move, i can cancel the move then move in and hit you

same deal with kenshis 2 in tai chi, what is missing from the move? PRIORITY, this is how the made the entire game revolve. its such an old system, you might as well have high hopes for mk8 because so do i. i had high hopes for mka too, and i personally feel it was a ten times better game then mkd, besides having no jutsu not everything being parryable.

i agree with having it be one button, it also needs a easier canceling method, pressing db at any time leaves you open to any attack..

ranking system is pointless i spend my time there practicing and learning about how online works, its bad enough how shitty it plays already, rank is the last thing you need.

have ranks for best combos or something like ki had.

i dont think anyone reads these things, god knows i posted enough of it in mkd, and it was all there still in mka

later

Let's see here...

A seperate button for a parry/reversal? Yes.

A parry/reversal cancel? Yes.

A parry/reversal cancel that leads to an opening for a hit? Hmmm... I'd say that would be good, but only limit it to a single hit or a inescapable throw that only takes a small amount of damage; say half the damage that a normal hit would inflict and a third of a regular throw. I'd also prefer if after a parry/reversal cancel the one doing it couldn't follow up on it. I'd want to take the possibility of having the person who's parry/reversal was canceled being screwed in the corner while trying to recover, but some kind of corner glitch allowing their opponent to have an advantage. It's better to have both people on equal footing after a parry/reversal cancel, I think.

OH! And this only should work one way. As in, if an opponent parries your move and you cancel theirs into your own, the exchange ends after that.



I think that's something that might work. Have a player ranked on the variety of combos that they pull off, the difficulty of them being used (button combinations and movement), the total average of effectiveness/damage of those combos, which is constantly updated each time you fight and the amount of wins you accumulate with them. And to nullify the random whore from using the same combo over and over, as I said earlier, the raking should be ONLY based on the variety of combos someone uses.



I'd really like it if we got additional input from other people and kept it the thread going for a while. Otherwise we'd be talking amongst ourselves the whole time. But I might consider it anyway just to have it prominent. We'll see.


Ghostdragon

I agree with the both of you. What im thinking for the Parry/Reveral cancel is,Would it be in the moves list? I noticed alot of things that in MKA are nmot in the move list simply because MIdway didnt even know about these things and that is pretty sad. It took the players of the game to find the glitches and errors.

I am glad you both agree on the 1 button Reversal and or Parry. Now what im thinking is what would be block? The good old Killer Instinct hold either back/down? Or you guys agree on having a 1 button block as well? Now about the whole Inescapable throw,I agree with Check on this one. We need Throw Escapes!!!! He showed me that upon reaction he cannot duck my throw or even jump my TSDrop with Dai. Why you ask? Cause the frames of each moves are sped up compared to the blocking. Sad.

I have no idea how the hell i was able to do Jades 3 and cancel it. I thought it was jsut lagg? If it wasnt do you think every character has a way to do this? I think that MIdway needs all new testers completely.

Wow!!!! I love that idea!!! Combos give you rank instead of Wins/losses? That would prove right there who had the real skill and who just boosted LMAO!!! I love this idea! The problem is MIdway wont do it and it will probably still be there and i wont care at all about it. Rank to me is nothing. I was just making a valuable point that if there wasnt any at all,There would be alot more better players on the servers instead of 100 scrub/Rankwhores you know?

Well about the getting more people to react to this. Sadly i dont believe there are enough MKA players that care enough to have a better fighting game. I unsderstand about waiting to get it stickied. I just hope like i said before that somebody from Midway ATLEAST takes a look at this. I doubt it...

Yeah, it'd have to be in the moves list, since it would essentially be a move itself. It'd be illogical if it weren't. And to expand parry/reversal cancels a bit further, there could be more than one of them that a player could perform making each one of them look unique and overall badass just looking at them. However, they'd all take the same amount of damage and both players would be on even keel afterwards, just like when the round starts.

And yes, all the moves that are meant to be in the game must be listed in the moves list and they'd have to a thorough job of eliminating the hidden ones/ones that they either forgot were there or didn't know where there. That hidden grab after the short combo that Darrius had in MKD for example.



You know, I'm not entirely sure what I'd like to see in terms of how to block. As of now, I'm just going to sell out and say that players should be able to customize this option; either using the block button or back/back-down in the options menu. I think Bleed had a great idea some time back.



Jesus. How can you speed up the frames on a number of moves (through out the entire game that give certain characters an unfair edge, especially the ones that lead to an otg) and not accommodate the blocking scheme to compensate for them? Yeah they slowed down Dairou's TSDrop, but it's still fast as hell.

I think throw escapes should probably work in the same vein as with parry/reversal cancels. Or just have a player escape the throw without a follow up attack. Like, a player uses an over the shoulder throw and the other player does his/her throw escape that allows them to flip out of it.



Okay, let me slightly add to my idea. In 'addition' to the variety of combos and etc. rank could also be determined by the ability to throw escape, parry/reverse and parry/reverse cancel out of the opponents most effective combos, whilst at the same time accounting for their use of their own combos. This way rank can be determined for not only a persons offense (use of a variety of combos), but also evading, parrying/reversing and escaping the opponents most effective (determined by their accumulated match history via saved statistical data) combos as well. This would of course be determined by escaping/parrying regular moves as well, but they would be given so much weight in over all rank determination. I think a total accounting of the persons skill can be determined in this method.

Also, it would be good for you to see where your strengths lie. You could be able to view your match history and gauge if you're better at countering/reversing, attacking or defense. This will give people an idea of where specifically they could improve.

And the person who repeatedly uses a move, throw, combo over and over to gains wins in streaks would have their overall rank reduced after each win within each winning streak. They can rack up all the wins they want till the cows come home, but wins alone won't determine how technically sound they would be and it'd show in the rankings. And everyone will be able to see how much of a 'pony' (as in 'one trick') some people really are.

And I think they could include character rankings that follow the same rule. This way we'd be able to see who statistically has the best... Sindel, Nitara, Nightwolf, etc.



Better yet, I am going to sticky this thread, since we're going to be dealing with aspects of gameplay in serious depth in this thread. I think we'd just have to get people that are of a similar mindset to venture here.


Ghostdragon

I didn't read everything, but I'll post some of what I'd like to see.


Every move should follow the basic idea of Risk VS Reward. For every reward, there needs to be some kind of risk. The severity of that risk depends on the value of the reward and may or may not be equal, altering the quality of the technique.

Diversity, different martial arts, different people equal different styles of play. Not every fighter should have the same move, or even the same type of move.

Having H,M,L reversals would be good, because it takes more skill to use.

Different characters could have differences with that. A character may have a reversal that works against H and M. Some may have one that works against H, M or L. Some may have one that works against H punches only etc. The list goes on, depending on the character.


There may be different moves possible such as throws, holds, auto hits, parry, auto evade.....

There can also be different ways to do these moves. You can have the standard catch, moves with auto defense.

There can even be things like special retaliation commands depending on your block stun. A flowing type move.

Since you would have realistic blocking and evasive animations, why not use these as mini stances, like what you have in Soul Calibur, Tekken, VF...

It would be like a just frame where if you are in a situation when you are forced to block, and you know what attack is coming next. The instant you block, tap a command to flow in to a counter. It would basically look like the auto block moves in the games mentioned above.

If you do it too late, the move doesn’t come out and you suffer your full block stun, if you do it too early, you eat a counter.

There could also be a special block stun counter frame, like a just frame in your stun animations, that let’s you recover a couple frames early with any attack.

There could be counter attacks that become something special if they counter a certain type of move, or they could cause a special reaction like a stumble.

Armor moves could be used too, or moves with weight properties. If an attack is not strong enough, even if it counters, will not be able to stop your blow. Make it so you can’t stop a flying kick or a round house with a jab.

I wouldn’t mind just having H and M reversals, anything below the waist could be dealt with a parry using their legs, or an auto evasion. = Lift leg, flip, roll, teleport, etc.

And since this is MK, special moves could be incorporated. There could be some kind of reversal magic move or whatever.

Some reversals might only work while floored, or while jumping...

Some may have clash properties, where an attack if clashed with another certain type of attack, will become a block or parry. Allowing you to quickly counter with the next move of a combo.

Sky’s the limit.

I don't want to see things like reversals limited by a timer or number of uses. Use practical design instead. Risk VS Reward

And I don’t want to see too much if any copy and paste.

Bleeds got alot of my ideology in the bag. And since I only played MkA online enough to get fed up, I'll just add my little two cent....however ammeter.


I absolutely feel you guys on the Block vs Throw issue. So in Mk8 that's got to be fixed//ousted or whatever. That one button parry idea was right where I was going but just more into how it should look.

Since animation is part of the issue there, make it more practical. Like If you try to grab me, and I have the option of that one button parry and execute it, let me smack your hands away.....simple. The action itself screams "quick".

And it doesn't need to be the same gesture for every character either...at all.
Some of the brutes on the roster might backhand you, while the more petite, say Li Mei might slap you twice in the face or something. Any way it goes, the gesture should be quick, and imo each character should have their own animation to describe "get off me".
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I'm also really curious as to why blocks and parries have to almost halt the match when you perform them. I mean, I understand action//re-action, but this is a fight.

Say I parry effectively right? It shouldn't send you spiraling into a vortex of utter helplessness. It's only really there to "deflect" a blow. So, again with the practicality, smack the hand, foot, or deflect the weapon attack away. Simple gestures to visually say "don't hit me", or "do something different", "NO" definitively are half the battle. And too, again, each character in the game should be worth their own little animation to say those things.
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On another issue I've been having since Mk "3D" in general, "How much of this crap can you block!?!"

I mean really it should be more rare that you actually get to block. I feel like, if they're there in this next game, they should be quick little animations, but you should take damage 99% of the time that you do block. Exit probably straight punches or kicks because those are simple, low cost attacks to suffer. Jabs should wear you down, almost never....ever take you out.
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What I'd love to see:

1. I'd love to see less dependency on blocking. I won't say take it out completely, just used far less as a "go-to game plan"(Bait-er//I call it turtle pokin'). Damage would have to be re-worked, but for the sake of keeping the game higher octane, I feel like it would be worth it if the reward for blocking was less gratifying when you used it.

And if people are able to "turtle poke" you to death, give them an extremely effective defensive character....work it out.(no problems, just suggestions)

2. More control over how you can duck and dodge. Again, if I kick you low, and you're blocking, you still take damage. What I think it would nudge people to do is roll, or jump over low kicks. As for punches of any sort, it should initiate the feeling like "you better move". Doesn't have to be a full shift of the camera angle, could be just your head or upper body that moves you out of the way of a punch.

Same difference though, if I'm ducking down to dodge a punch, and you connect...."practical" penatly for that is to take the hit, stumble backwards, regain balance. Same goes for blocking while ducking because, how effective would it be anyway? Y'know?

3. Just like bleed here, it's a "next-gen" Mortal Kombat game right? Why can't I perform specials from any where. High Mid or Low? We have enough "masters" on the roster to solidify "why they can", even if "everybody" couldn't do it. Raiden, Shang Tsung, or Sub-Zero for a small example.

4. What about refersals that turn into specials? These are the places you put those things. "Parry>>Punch"///or Kick, or whatever. And the punch or kick in there becomes the special.

5. I was just thinking about Air-born Game play and, I'll say that I want it in there. But only if it fits the characters capabilities to be in there. Fujin, Sindel, Raiden, Nitara, Onaga, um...who? Ermac I guess. They should be the ones with an up top game.

And since I'm saying it, I'd like to see them "have to keep you in the air". Gravity should still be a factor in Air born Game play for them. Kicks and hard punches take you from the ground in-to the air, they get a chance at something cool if you don't apply blocks or parries....ect. Not the crazy looking "bounces" and just being suspended in the air. heheh

6. The delay at the end of a combo or special move would be great if it were reduced or completely gone. Risk doesn't have to be realized by slowing the game up so you "give" the opponent anything. It could be in how much it's worth on the life bar. If I throw a fire ball that's not worth much why do it?

It could also be in "how" I throw said fireball. If I pitch it like in baseball, my opponent can see that coming. I don't wanna be "stuck" after I throw the thing just to tell them "you can hit me now a-huck!" lol.

At the same time, maybe incorporate quick, mid, and slow specials.

7. Wake-up game///Ground game. I need some substance here. Specials would be great. Being able to kick a guys ass from the ground until I'm in a full hand stand would be nuts. And it's a reasonable way for someone really skilled to come back to his (normal)fighting stance. I'd just drop to my feet from my hands. Shows how many options that could be explored there.

I can't see alot of "punches" here for some reason, but I'm sure it could work with the kicks somehow.....

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Welp that's all from me for a bit...


151

Keep the parries, but add reversals (high and low) to certain characters move sets.

Have reversal pop ups and throws and knock downs and shot

keep the parries remove the breakers tho.

Ok you mean, like the breakers system, ex.: 3 breakers and 3 reversal

That's a very good idea... i agree 100%

I'm posting my opinions keeping off-line gameplay in mind.

I seriously don't see what is wrong with MK:A's parry system (aside from the fact that it has been implemented in the poorest possible way and that its animations look horrible). I was worried that MK:A's parry would be too safe, and thus, very spammable, but it's anything but spammable. You mis-parry, you get punished. You parry, you get the reward of following up with any attack of your choice. If anything, MK:A lacks a low parry. A high/mid parry (like the one in MK:A) has no business parrying low attacks.

The only thing I don't like is the parry's notation because I've accidently parried so many times while backdashing and simultaneously trying to block. Thus, in my opinion, MK's block button needs to be removed completely. Blocking should just be "b". A high/mid parry should be "b+R2" while a low parry should be "d/f+R2".

Some of you also seem to confuse a reversal with a parry.

When an attack is reversed, a character does an automatic attack (usually some kind of throw). However, when an attack is parried, a character deflects or evades an attack allowing him or her to do any attack of his or her own.

( Only read this shit below if you have some prior knowledge of frames in fighting games, and Tekken... )

Now, if you want to make the parry system a lot deeper, you can do that according to the attack you just parried; that means, different advantages/vulnerabilities will be present depending on what attack you just parried. Here is an example with Tekken 4 Jin...

Jin in Tekken 4 can parry (notation is b+2+4). He deflects any attack (except the ones Namco has made "un-parriable") thrown at him. He gets more advantage from parrying "hard-hitting" / un-safe attacks (such as Paul's QCF+2 or Heihachi's f,f+2) than he gets from parrying "softer-hitting" / fairly safe attacks (such as generic d/f+2, WGF, EWGF, etc.). This all leads to the moves Jin can do after his parry to punish his opponent (since advantage differs). In MK:A that is non-existent of course; whether you parry a completely safe attack (such as Dairou's b+4) or a completely un-safe attack (such as Quan Chi's Escrima, b+1 off-line that completely freezes him when it is blocked) makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. In other words, the advantage is always the same, and you may follow up with any attack you like regardless of the move's safety when it is parried. Jin's Tekken 4 parry ended up being broken due to its immense safety (i.e. when he mis-parries he's still safe 99% of the time). That is why safe parries don't work. They create nothing but turtle and parry fests, not to mention mismatches for those people who suggest them so eagerly.

The same is true for low parrying. Low parying low punches (even though they're "special mid" in Tekken) gives you a +16 advantage (meaning you can do an attack that is 16 frames or faster, and in Tekken's case, the attack must be a mid one since low parrying results in your opponent being in a crouching state). Low parrying kicks, however, gives you a +17 advantage (meaning you can do an attack that is 17 frames or faster, and in Tekken's case, the attack must be a mid one since low parrying results in your opponent being in a crouching state, and sometimes even off-axis, which may prevent you from doing certain attacks because they will whiff).

Karate asked me to give my take on parries, that's my stand on basic and advanced parrying. I hope it wasn't too confusing.

Exactly! Honestly, much like the earlier games, they need to bring in martial artists of varying styles to do the motion capturing. Even if two character were to use... say Seven Star Preying Mantis, they could simply represent that style differently by retaining essential 4 or 5 core techniques moves, but making the rest of the moves different.

If two characters had broadswords, one might use it in a basic way and another could use it more elaborately. Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

Last Hurrah for chivalry

Watch how the movements of the white opponent differ from the other opponent. He switches sword hands in the latter moments of the fight in contrast to the other guy who is primarily using his right hand. You'll be able to see the difference in how they handle their swords through out the fight, especially at 2:46.



I agree with all of this. Though, with a more technical MK, I there would need to be a practice mode that could walk you through all of the steps of using these reversals, blocks etc in the form of a tutorial. I really don't want to have to learn them exclusively in Konquest.


Ghostdragon

Yeah, a well thought out practice mode is a must for something like this.

Something that let's you set your opponent's actions, see frame data, record actions, etc.

Pretty much, anything that has to do with testing things out.

i think we all can agree that MK games now and all future MK games are mainly played ONLINE.

w/ this in mind you have to take in Lag issues.

2nd we also can agree that the MK team isnt going to create a perfect fighting game, its going to be flawed.

so what id do for the next mk game is make every attack safe. no matter what move i do i should be able to block after. think about it, in real life when you punch some one you dont stand there after allowing your self to be stomped right after.

its dumb that Scorpion can attack w/ F+1 and he doesnt have to worry about not being able to block after. then Shinnok does B+1 in 1st stance SAME ATTACK as scorpions F+1 (a fast mid) however he gets this huge delay and isnt allowed to block after

what should happen is if i attack w/ 1 my foe can anticipate this and attack w/ the countering attack we'll say 3.

1 beats 4
2 beats 3
3 beats 1
4 beats 2


now if some one attacks w/ 1 and his foe tries to interupt it w/ 2 ~ 1 will win because it was done 1st.


w/ this type of system in place it will prevent people from just holding block all day and trying to counter an attack.

the parry attack will not be needed in this system. its stupid anyway.

low and mid attacks should be left the way they are. what ever one is done 1st beats out the other, like how it is now.

Throws should be left the way they are. Throw escapes should be added, but im unsure how they work so i wont comment on it.



Combo breaker system should be redone and made like KI's. MK already stole the idea, might as well make it just like the way it should be.


1 breaks 3
2 breaks 4
3 breaks 2
4 breaks 1

these breakers should only break combos that are like 1,1,3,4,cs.

combos that are quick 3 hitters that arent already strung together shouldnt be able to be broke. Example ~ Sindel Kwan Do ~ UP+1, 2 B+3 a quick 3 hitter that i as a player created and it wasnt pre set.

another thing its dumb that the 1st hit of an attack can be broken.
Example ~ Sindel Kwan Do UP+1 can be broken right whne it touches and it gives zero damage even though it hit my foe.







if every one thinks my ideas are dumb, yea sure whatever. if the system is left the way it is now and just advances like how MKDA, MKD, MKA did.
well make the parry and combo breaker be their own button and away from my BLOCK button .



THE BLOCK BUTTON should and always be apart of MK. MK wouldnt be MK w/o it, so those of you who said get rid of it well my response is NO!!

Safe attacks? Do you want every character to have safe 50/50 mix ups? In other words, do you want characters to rush you into completely safe 50/50 mix ups (i.e. Kabal's/Mavado's Hookswords, u+2 / 4, Scorpion's wep. f+1 / any of his first stance low attacks, etc.) that lets you do nothing when you block them? Your best bets would be either throwing or using low attacks after blocking your opponent's safe attack. If your opponent ducks, use a mid attack. What do we have as a result? Easy 50/50 mix ups over and over again (similar to how MK:D's rush down game was played online, and even how MK:A's rush down game is still played today online).

You are right, though. Attacks need to be safer in MK but it all depends on which attack we're talking about. A mid pop up that tracks fairly well, has a huge hit box, and causes good damage/mix ups should obviously never be safe (but that's why Scorpion is so good in the first place). An attack, such as a simple jab or mid poke, should be safe. Simple risk/reward ratio needs to be followed. There is no reason to make every attack safe.

As for turtling (just keep in mind that it will always be the most dominating tactic in fighting games), it can be dealt with if the fighting game contains the proper tools. Here are my suggestions (some are directly copied from Tekken and VF):

THROWS - give every character three throws (with different commands to escape each one) and make them track. Certain throws should be bufferable, possibly give Oki, or be harder to escape. They should be punishable once they had been ducked.

LONG-RANGED THROWS - like normal throws, except a character covers more distance with his arms to grab his or her opponent. Make them a little bit slower than normal throws. If your opponent backdashes/runs away all the time, the long-ranged throw will catch him or her (if the distance is right of course).

WALLS - walls should give a purpose, and not just act like magical barriers (as they do in any of the 3D MK games). Wall stuns (attack that stuns your opponent on the wall) should be present. Wall pushes (a throw that pushes your opponent's back to a wall giving you advantage) can be present as well. Keep in mind that your opponent has nowhere to backdash with his/her back near a wall. Their best is to side step but it will be hard to turtle because there is a lot of things to watch out for (normal mix ups, Wall pushes, throws, etc.).

I have more but these are just some of them. Sadly, MK hasn't even touched on any of these yet. Pathetic.

And don't be a fool. The block button needs to go. It does nothing but limit movement.