I have to wholeheartedly agree with you on the subject.
While the ninjas have been a Mortal Kombat staple from the beginning of the series, they have grown stale just as the other original characters have. Changing the look of Scorpion and Sub-Zero in each game isn't enough to make them fresh and unique.
It's time that Scorpion and SubZero take a step back and let other characters shine under a new light. Characters from Mortal Kombat 3 had much potential but were taken out when the games evolved on new consoles. It's time they step up and show that they have potential to be the next Fan Favorites.

Great thread, Queve!
I agree with eevrything however Sub-Zero is not overated! At one time I would agreed that he was but he isn't. He actually has a decent story and some importance in the world of MK.
Scorpion however as you said is boring. He just dies and comes back for revenge everytime. It needs to stop as it's repetitive and boring! He is greatly overated. MK can survive without him. It got past MK3 didn't it? Him sitting out another game wouldn't be a huge loss at all if any.

Well, which characters need to sit out a game is largely a matter of opinion. These two characters along with Kung Lao form my trifecta of my three favorite characters ever.
I don't think these characters are overrated any more than say, Raiden, Sonya or Kitana are overrated. They are popular characters with large fanbases. Absolutely essential to the story? Possibly not, but I think each MK that has them in it is a step better than they would be without.
Why? They are simply awesome character concepts, and not because they're ninjas. An unholy specter returning from the dead for revenge is simply a cool concept. True, they need to find something slightly better for ol' Scorp to do because it has been away, but he's still a great character concept that is very popular, and thus, deserving of his appearances. Plus, he's Boon's favorite character. So we're going to have to deal with him always being around. As to the death and resurrection thing -- being unkillable is Scorpion's schtick. Seeing other characters use that same schtick, especially in silly ways, is annoying.
As to Sub-Zero, his story-line has shown the most evolution of any MK character in the game. Going from a hired assassin, to being replaced with his younger brother, then following the younger brother's trials and tribulations first as an outcast from his clan and then later coming back to take leadership has been an interesting story and a great ride. And its also obvious that Sub-Zero's story is going to tie directly in to this whole Dragon King storyline due to the dragon medallion. Of any character in MK, Sub-Zero is the most deserving of all his returns because he has always had something new and interesting to offer, both play-wise and story-line-wise, a claim that can't be made by ANY other MK character. Sonya, Raiden, Kitana? Their stories are all almost as repetitive as Scorpion's.

It's true they are overrated, I used to go to the arcade a while back and people complained about their repetitive storylines and moves. But the truth is that as long as boon likes them they will be in every MK game, so I'm glad that this thread was created.

i dont think either of them are overrated at all..both of them play a big part in the MK world...and i think it would be a huge mistake if they are ever left out of a future MK which i really doubt thet will happen..and Queve ..u said ur self they are both awsome chacters...so why would u leave something awsome that makes the game better out of the game???

"I will start by saying that I'm more then shock to see I'm not the only person (and I mean only one in the whole universe) that actually thinks these 2 characters are overrated and need to sit out of another game."
The people who dont want them back are an EXTREME minority. They are the 2 most popular characters in Mortal Kombat and they need to be around for the game to sell to it's max.
"Yes, Scorpion and Sub-Zero are AWESOME and AMAZING! I’m not saying they are not but quite frankly, I can count on this board A LOT MORE Kitana fans then Scorpion fans."
Your counting skills have GOTTA be flawed man. There are a LOT more Scorpion fans then Kitana fans. That's not even a fair comparison. You'd be better off comparing Kitana to Cage or something.
"Have we all gotten used to repeat the saying:“They are the best and most popular characters in the game”"
Everyone is tired of it, but the truth is the truth man. It's like a Tekken game without Jin and Hwoarang. A Soul Calibur without Kilik and Maxi. Or a Street Fighter without Ken or Ryu.
Can’t we actually see there are so many other characters with as much and more potential then these ninjas?
"What bothers me is when people complain about old, lame and stupid stories that need a change (Johnny Cage), but never open their eyes to see that SCORPION is on the exact same place! Stuck with the same boring story with NO improvement over the years and repetitive look and endings."
True, but Scorpion is really not liked because of his storyline. I think it was one of the best stories in Mortal Kombat then it got played out, but he's still loved because he looks awesome and he has cool special moves. Besides, your arguments wouldn't work for the other character you don't want back, Sub-Zero.
"What new or good has he ever brought to the story He always goes back to hell, he keeps searching for revenge he never gets, and most important of all he dies in the way, and returns how shocking."
Without Scorpion and Sub-Zero MK would not be where it is right now, and you know that man.You can't say Scorpion's body being annihilated in his MKDA wasn't shocking.
"I'm more SICK when people say Cage DIED like 10 times (only 1, and technically he never died!) and hate to see them back, hate resurrection and complain about Liu Kang and Sindel, when Scorpion has OFFICIALY died 2 TIMES in the game (Killed by Sub-Zero before Mk1 and Quan chi in MKDA)."
Scorpion's storyline is just a million times better than Johnny Cage. I'm one of the minorities who likes Cage a lot, much more than Scorpion, but the truth is the truth. Scorp's story is far more intriguing as his character jus has a lot more staying power.
"Why is it you hate to see everyone die and return except for the specter? Cause he is a specter you say? Well, that’s NO excuse. It’s boring and has no point in the story. Stop killing him if he is gonna return please!"
I was just about to say because hes a specter, but I guess you covered that already. That's a specters job dude. They don't die haha. How is Scorpion's point in the story any less relevant than say..your favorite character?
"I'm NOT bashing Scorpion, and I don’t want to offend ANYONE, but I think it’s FAIR to say, that they both need TO STAY OUT of another game."
It's fair to the legions of Sub-Zero or Scorpion faboys, and it most importantly isn't fair to Ed Boon's wallet.
"Doesn't everyone complain about characters like Sonya being in every game and say that OTHER classics need a chance?"
That's because Baraka,Mileena,Kabal and Sindel are liked a lot more than Sonya and are considered by the MASS majority to be cooler characters.
"Well, I think the spot of these 2 ninjas could easily be taken by characters with huge potential like Reiko and Fujin, characters who could be improved such as Stryker and Jarek."
Reiko,Fujin,Stryker and Jarek can all replace Sonya,Jax,Cyrax,etc. Characters that don't have as much of a following as the biggies like Scorp,Sub,Reptile,Raiden and Shang Tsung. Those 5 to me are the most loved MK characters. You don't see Reiko,Fujin,Jarek and Stryker coming back to replace Sub-Zero and Scorpion because...
A. Not to many people like those characters
and
B. Business wise it would not be smart to replace your two money aces for chars the consumer won't give as much of a shit about.
"“MK needs Scorpion and Sub-Zero so it can sell well” ..want me to tell you a SECRET?????????? Please come near and let me whisper the sweet truth in your sweet ears :
IT’S A LIE!!!!!!!! A LIE!!! A LIEEEE!!!"
LOL..hahahahhahaha. You know how most of the time people you cant see you just picture how they look like. Well, I can imagine Queve(in the way I see him to look like) doing that in real life. HAHAHHAHAHA. I can also see you getting tied up and carried off to belleview mental facility.
"Honestly, do you seriously believe that if Mr. Boon decided to take them out (or at least 1) of a game, NO ONE will ever buy the game??? PLEASE! I'm more then sure Mk will sell as GOOD or BETTER without them!"
Still good, but DEFINITELY not better. Look how many people were pissed at Frost not coming back. God can only forsee how bad it would be with the two aces out.
"So, my whole POINT is:
They are both great characters.
They are OVERRATED characters.
They need to STAY OUT of a future game."
They are both great characters.
They are both the most POPULAR characters.
They need to BE IN the future games.
"Other characters disserve a chance don’t they? Well, let’s be fair and take these two out and please the fans with others. Like I said, their presence or absence in the game won’t affect the sales, and like I said there are others with huge potential."
I doubt there are many characters around who have nearly as much potential as Sub-Zero does, and with Scorpion being reincarnated his story should be amazing as well.
"Sure MANY fans will get angry! They will be pissed but there will ALSO be MANY MANY fans happy with the return of others, and the absence of this two."
Yes, but not as many.
"Even some Scorpion fans will agree with me on this subject."
Some? Yes. Most? No.
"Peace: Please keep this clean and don’t make it a war!"
*eats your spleen*

Normally I would close this thread, because there is already a thread on this topic (http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?name=mk6&message=66815). Seeing as how it is leading to good conversation, however ... I will let it stay open. Just be sure to check out the main forum page before creating new threads.

isk8element21 Wrote: i dont think either of them are overrated at all..both of them play a big part in the MK world...and i think it would be a huge mistake if they are ever left out of a future MK which i really doubt thet will happen..and Queve ..u said ur self they are both awsome chacters...so why would u leave something awsome that makes the game better out of the game???

They are overrated my friend.
Why them must be out? Simple, there are other characters with as much or more potential that are taken out to "give others a chance". So it seems fair this 2 are taken out of at leats a future game.

Amen!
They must stay in the MK universe, but not playable anymore!

reply to my shit to jackass! *cries*

I fully agree with DeadBoy and Versatile.
Sub-Zero is the most developed character in MK, And Scorpion seems to be getting pushed. It isn't that Scorpion and Sub-Zero are over-rated, It's just that people have mis-conceptions about them.
And i will defend Scorpion to my grave, But all i have to say is... MK3! He sat out of that game, So that's his "One" game you guys are talking about. There was also hell to pay because of that, So they made UMK3 and put him in. So i don't think that they'll make the same mistake again.

Versatile, you have made many good points I agree.
But you are stuck with the same thought of:
Scorpion + Sub-Zero: MONEY and SELLS.
That’s not true. I know you are a major Sub-Zero fan, and I'm sorry if this offended you. You can say back then Scorpion and Sub were the ultimate characters, the most popular, and well, they are the most known in the world of Mk, but you must admit their fan base has lowered, and its clear why, and so its clear characters like Baraka have gotten a more positive response then this 2.
You said:
Without Scorpion and Sub-Zero MK would not be where it is right now, and you know that man.You can't say Scorpion's body being annihilated in his MKDA wasn't shocking.
Well, actually, with out any other original such as Rayden, Kitana, Baraka, Mileena AND Sonya it would not be were it is now. And to tell you the truth, there was absolutely nothing shocking about his ending.
What shocking? He just died again.
And sorry, you understodd wrong (my fault) they cant be replaced, no ORIGINAL character can, but they CAN easily be TAKEN OUT and "replaced" for Fujin or other.
Its fair.
AND, I woudl not get too confident with:
"They are Boons favorite, he will never take them out"....dude, you never know, never. To say its a fact is wrong, since you are not him or the company, no one can say or confirm this. (I did not mean to say you stated it as a FACT).
Mk can LIVE NICELY WITH OUT THEM.
ALSO; you said they are liked cause of their looks and concepts design. Well thats an ancient tale dude. You can tell its no longer like this. No matter how good a character may look the STORY is important, and you can tell that now.
You can either accept their popularity is no longer as big as before, or close your mind with the same thought, that Mk revolves around these characters.

Thank you Mobster4Christ . Actually, this is only about them and a totally different subject.
Thanks to eveyone for replying with maturity!

queve Wrote: I will start by saying that I'm more then shock to see I'm not the only person (and I mean only one in the whole universe) that actually thinks these 2 characters are overrated and need to sit out of another game. Yes, Scorpion and Sub-Zero are AWESOME and AMAZING! I’m not saying they are not but quite frankly, I can count on this board A LOT MORE Kitana fans then Scorpion fans. I can even read some Scorpion fans replies that agree on this subject. Have we all gotten used to repeat the same old sentence?: “They are the best and most popular characters in the game” Can’t we actually see there are so many other characters with as much and more potential then these ninjas? What bothers me is when people complain about old, lame and stupid stories that need a change (Johnny Cage), but never open their eyes to see that SCORPION is on the exact same place! Stuck with the same boring story with NO improvement over the years and repetitive look and endings. What new or good has he ever brought to the story? He always goes back to hell, he keeps searching for revenge he never gets, and most important of all he dies in the way, and returns how shocking. I'm more SICK when people say Cage DIED like 10 times (only 1, and technically he never died!) and hate to see them back, hate resurrection and complain about Liu Kang and Sindel, when Scorpion has OFFICIALY died 2 TIMES in the game (Killed by Sub-Zero before Mk1 and Quan chi in MKDA). Why is it you hate to see everyone die and return except for the specter? Cause he is a specter you say? Well, that’s NO excuse. It’s boring and has no point in the story. Stop killing him if he is gonna return please! I'm NOT bashing Scorpion, and I don’t want to offend ANYONE, but I think it’s FAIR to say, that they both need TO STAY OUT of another game. Doesn't everyone complain about characters like Sonya being in every game and say that OTHER classics need a chance? Well, I think the spot of these 2 ninjas could easily be taken by characters with huge potential like Reiko and Fujin, characters who could be improved such as Stryker and Jarek. Now, what everyone is used to hear and say is: “MK needs Scorpion and Sub-Zero so it can sell well” ..want me to tell you a SECRET?????????? Please come near and let me whisper the sweet truth in your sweet ears : IT’S A LIE!!!!!!!! A LIE!!! A LIEEEE!!! Honestly, do you seriously believe that if Mr. Boon decided to take them out (or at least 1) of a game, NO ONE will ever buy the game??? PLEASE! I'm more then sure Mk will sell as GOOD or BETTER without them! People will say: “If they are not in the game, I wont buy it” .but will you actually resist this and wont buy the possibly BEST Mk game of the entire series just cause they are not in??? hahaha, I don’t think so, and its childish to think some even would! So, my whole POINT is: They are both great characters. They are OVERRATED characters. They need to STAY OUT of a future game. Other characters disserve a chance don’t they? Well, let’s be fair and take these two out and please the fans with others. Like I said, their presence or absence in the game won’t affect the sales, and like I said there are others with huge potential. Sure MANY fans will get angry! They will be pissed but there will ALSO be MANY MANY fans happy with the return of others, and the absence of this two. Even some Scorpion fans will agree with me on this subject. Peace: Please keep this clean and don’t make it a war!

I completly agree here Queve, great job. I hear it all the time: "Kitana....her story is stale she shouldn't come back", "Sonya is going nowhere why the hell do we need her in there?", "and for that matter Liu Kang deserved to die because his storyline was so old and he sucked."
Yet Sub and Scorp, almost NEVER have similar things said in regards to them and the truth is that every single character that has been in MK1, that are in the games now, are in the same boat. Period. If we could do without the likes of Kitana, Sonya, Liu, Cage, Kano, then Sub and Scorp have to go too.
Also I do not believe AT ALL that if Sub or Scorp or even both weren't in a game that it wouldn't sell. That is crap.

Come to think of it, Is there any character that's truly essential? They could create "Gunther, Ernest and Debra-Jo" and turn them into the new stars of the MK world and just take out Mileena, Kenshi and Quan Chi if they wanted to.

Great thread queve!but...
I think that Scorpion should stay in Mk in every game,moviesetc.There are the most popular fighters in Mk like Mk started with Scorpion n Sub-zero ans since that theyeve become the most popular fighters in Mk!!!!.
Scorpion is not mostly loved by his storyline but by his look and his spear and because he looks awesome.But Scorpion also has his desadvantes is that he keps apering with the same stroylines revenge that all and all that.
Sub-zero is mostly loved by his moves,storylines.and his look his storylines are awesome moves the ice stuff are cool.
Its true that Scorpion has been in almost everygame but what can u do hes mostly the best in everygame hes improving.
Sub-zero the same as Scorpion has been in everygame.
Im not saying that theyre the best in Mk but good.Kitana,Raiden,Johnny cage are also popular bu not as popular as Scop n Sub and i dont want to offend no 1.
so i think they should be in a Mk game for as much as they can.
Great thread Queve

yea but If ya think about it ..every new or old character has potential..if just a little more time and energy was put to them all of of them would be good..and if thats the case then almost every character would "sit out"..and if any one were to sit out ..i think that Sub and Scorp are the last choices for that..if anybody were to sit out to make lead way for more characters i would look towards characters like Kano or Cage..Def not Sub or Scorp

sektor101 Wrote: Great thread queve!but... I think that Scorpion should stay in Mk in every game,moviesetc.There are the most popular fighters in Mk like Mk started with Scorpion n Sub-zero ans since that theyeve become the most popular fighters in Mk!!!!. Scorpion is not mostly loved by his storyline but by his look and his spear and because he looks awesome.But Scorpion also has his desadvantes is that he keps apering with the same stroylines revenge that all and all that. Sub-zero is mostly loved by his moves,storylines.and his look his storylines are awesome moves the ice stuff are cool. Its true that Scorpion has been in almost everygame but what can u do hes mostly the best in everygame hes improving. Sub-zero the same as Scorpion has been in everygame. Im not saying that theyre the best in Mk but good.Kitana,Raiden,Johnny cage are also popular bu not as popular as Scop n Sub and i dont want to offend no 1. so i think they should be in a Mk game for as much as they can. Great thread Queve

Thanks sektor101! How you doing BTW?
I know you are a major Scorpion fan too and that was an excellent reply! But I have to disagree. As you can read in my other posts, the whole “They are loved by his looks and special moves” thing is ancient stuff .very old. There are simply many other special moves as GOOD as the spear or freeze.
They are not as popular as before, you can see that. They are important, they are powerful, they are loved, but so are Raiden, Kitana, Sonya, Baraka, Mileena AND MANY OTHERS, just as much. Their fan base has grown over the years, while this characters fan base has lowered.

I just thought I'd add that MK doesn't revolve around Sub-Zero or Scorpion.
Look at MKDA. Storywise, Scorp had a side story. Nitaras story was one of the main ones as it lead to the DK's arrival. Shang, Quan and Mavado lead the other main story. Scorps was just a side quest sort of as was Sub-Zeros imo.
MK can sell without both of those two. The game isn't centered around them as MKDA proves! Take them out and there will be many who wil stil buy the game for their faves.

You may believe that there are moves better then the Ice Blast and The Spear Queve, But that's mainly just you, lol.
And what? For every one person that likes maybe Bo' Rai Cho more then Scorpion or Sub-Zero... There's 10 new people to take that one person's place.
You also say that "Because they are cool" is worn out. No it's not, Because after all of these years... People still love them. And does anyone play as maybe Liu Kang because he's Earths champion? Or did you guys play as him because of his Bycicle Kick? I know i did.
Every character in MK is repetitive except the new characters, But then they become repetitive in the next game (if they're in it).

I AM A SCORPION FAN!!! AND I’M PROUD TO AGREE!!!!!
As you can see in my recent posts, I have lost a lot of interest for my man scorpion, but why? It’s not about having great looks or awesome special moves, we already have great characters like that! Many in fact, it’s about having a deep story but most of all its about not going blind!
He is my favorite character of all time, but why is it that I just don’t find him as good anymore? Exactly, because of all that has been said.
I will happily buy any Mk game that does not have him or sub-zero, and I agree with most here! They should and can be replaced by others. I actually want to see him rest a game and return in his full potential. He has no longer impressed me ever since MkTrilogy!!!
Mk3 was not hated only cause Scorpion was not there, it was the bad and unfinished things like fatalities (multiple arms and heads) and the “lost” dark feeling. But as you can clearly see, there are many not everyone, not most, but many fans that like MK3 better then Mk2.
All I can say, queve is 100% right about this. Scorpion and Sub-zero are just as popular as Kabal, Baraka and Sonya blade...even stupid Kutana has a high fan base! They are no longer the main characters.
Mk will sell as good with or without them. they need to take a rest. There are others who need a chance, and others as good!
If Kabal woudl had replaced scorpion, I would be happy! So if Baraka or Sonya.
You see?

queve Wrote: sektor101 Wrote: Great thread queve!but... I think that Scorpion should stay in Mk in every game,moviesetc.There are the most popular fighters in Mk like Mk started with Scorpion n Sub-zero ans since that theyeve become the most popular fighters in Mk!!!!. Scorpion is not mostly loved by his storyline but by his look and his spear and because he looks awesome.But Scorpion also has his desadvantes is that he keps apering with the same stroylines revenge that all and all that. Sub-zero is mostly loved by his moves,storylines.and his look his storylines are awesome moves the ice stuff are cool. Its true that Scorpion has been in almost everygame but what can u do hes mostly the best in everygame hes improving. Sub-zero the same as Scorpion has been in everygame. Im not saying that theyre the best in Mk but good.Kitana,Raiden,Johnny cage are also popular bu not as popular as Scop n Sub and i dont want to offend no 1. so i think they should be in a Mk game for as much as they can. Great thread Queve Thanks sektor101! How you doing BTW? I know you are a major Scorpion fan too and that was an excellent reply! But I have to disagree. As you can read in my other posts, the whole “They are loved by his looks and special moves” thing is ancient stuff .very old. There are simply many other special moves as GOOD as the spear or freeze. They are not as popular as before, you can see that. They are important, they are powerful, they are loved, but so are Raiden, Kitana, Sonya, Baraka, Mileena AND MANY OTHERS, just as much. Their fan base has grown over the years, while this characters fan base has lowered.

Thanks Queve im doing fine you i hope youre doing fine.
But yeah kind of people are kind of lowering theyre interest on carachters like those the people are kind of interested know in people leats say Nightwolf,Kabal and all of those.But Scorpion is still popular and i think that other people think the same and the same for Sub-zero.I just hope that people are not going to have interest in Scorp n Sub i just know theyre not.
And again great thread!

MKDA wasnt all about scorpion or sub..but who was in the initial trailer for DA...Scorpion..and who do u automatically think of when u see Scorpion ...Sub-Zero. Because they are rivals...It just wouldnt have looked rite if anyone else but Scorp did that little martial arts dance in the trailer..Thats like looking at boxing and seeing anyone else but Ali..or The terminator without arnold..my point is ..Just like boxing or the terminator...if they made a MK without Sub or Scorp ..it would work .But it wouldnt work as well as it does with them.

isk8element21 Wrote: MKDA wasnt all about scorpion or sub..but who was in the initial trailer for DA...Scorpion..and who do u automatically think of when u see Scorpion ...Sub-Zero. Because they are rivals...It just wouldnt have looked rite if anyone else but Scorp did that little martial arts dance in the trailer..Thats like looking at boxing and seeing anyone else but Ali..or The terminator without arnold..my point is ..Just like boxing or the terminator...if they made a MK without Sub or Scorp ..it would work .But it wouldnt work as well as it does with them.

Being a Scorpion fan, I would normally agree, but I don’t.
Its not really important if they were in the trailer, so were Raiden, so was Sonya, so was Cage, and Jax, and Frost, and you get my point. I think the game will sell as well. They are characters with potential, but not with as much importance as to keep in every single game. If they can take someone like Kung Lao or Raiden or Sonya out of a game, the difference will be nothing if the same happened to scopr and sub.
Yes, it will cause shock, it will cause anger like it did with other characters, but the game will still live and show us fans that the chance is given to everyone in a fair way.