they need ppl who know how to make a well balenced 3d fighting system...i mean mkd still feels behind a couple of years it looks 3d but it doesnt play 3d...

HDtran, good to see you're still here.

Anyway, I didn't read the whole thread, but I can see that people have chimed in with gameplay ideas enough.

I wanted to plug in my input on fatalities. I know a hundred people have done this already, but I wanted to do it too. MK got it's fame off of fatalities and gory play. It would help if it could make good ones again.

IMO, fatalities should be believable and have decent execution.

Believability- An incomplete guide I bought once for MK4 clarified fatalities. "The use of a Kombatant's physical and magical abilities to kill an opponent." That's half of the key. Fatalities would rock if Kombatants used their skills in cool ways. I also believe in "weakening" the opponent as an aid to cool usage. If you name just about any crappy fatality in the MK series, some logic would make it better. Hell, believability would work with some good fatalities too.
We love Sub-Zero's spine rip, but would it hurt if he, before the rip, made a cut down the opponent's back somehow and froze the inside of that wound? The spine would be ripped out erect, and to me that's cooler (no pun intended).
In MKDA, Johnny had the weird brain rip. It would have been better if he hit the opponent in the head a bunch of times with fireballs before that rip. It would make sense while adding insult to injury.
Don't get me started on fatalities that should have just been switched around.

Execution- The way a fatality idea is done is the other half of the key. As with believability, better all around presentation of a fatality would have helped a lot of fatalities in MK. Better sounds, more believable reactions, organs, stuff like that. Maybe even different camera angles at certain parts. I had an example, but I forgot.

Also, it would be a neat little bonus if the fatalities had different versions for different final buttons. I'm talking a definite D-Pad input, but a remixed fatality for each button pressed at the end.
Example: On playstation, pressing square after F,F,D,F would get you Scorpion's original toasty. Pressing triangle would make him disappear and the opponent suddenly explode into flames. The cycle goes on.

That's my .02. Edit: OHHH! Sorry, I didn't see that fatality thread there. I left right after this post. Once again, Sorry.

An idea for testing the games at home that would equal the arcade is to have Demo discs be playable online.

Like test versions at the arcade, but have it be a demo CD you can buy for like $10.00.


The Demo would have...

* 4 characters playable
(There could be different sets of Demo discs, with different characters to choose from.)

* VS mode = VS comp or VS human player

* A good practice mode with a recording function

* Have at least 2 stages
One would be normal with walls and ring outs / death traps or whatever.

The other would be an infinite stage, like the ones in Tekken Tag and Tekken 5. With this, you can practice long juggles without walls getting in the way.

* Playable online



They could have a feed back section for the game's web site, they could browse through sites like MKO and get instant feed back via head sets and video footage.


This way, they can test the game with tons of people and make money off it.

That's a pretty good idea, the only problem I can see is that we all know that Boon and Co. are huge supporters of secrecy. They never want to give an inch and more often than not like to take us in circles. Giving out a demo of the game, especially if a good percentage of the cast is revealed, would probably rub the team in a bad way even if it's for a good cause. But for better or worse we now know that DA and Deception having stupid problems is not a fluke or "just because it's MK" but rather is directly related to them not having arcade releases thanks to the fact that Soul Calibur III has similar issues. It just seems like direct to console fighting games can't be any good.

But didn't we already know a ton of stuff before MKDA and MKD came out.

We knew most of the characters and how the game played.

They can still keep whatever secrets they normally have by not putting them in the Demos.


Like if Liu kang is a secret character, just don't put him in the demos.


Use knowledge from other characters to fix the secret ones.

That's not as good as straight testing for them, but it's better than nothing.

They could disable other things, like fatalities and cut scenes....

Just have some basic stuff.

That's the best thing I can come up with right now.

When designing the game play, try to avoid making the game too heavy on any one aspect that is over powering.

Tekken5 is too heavy on Juggles.

DOA4 is too heavy on reversals and Critical stuns.

MKD is too heavy on dial combos, unbreakable throws, infinites.

I can't think of anything that really stands out like that in VF4.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T5 is my favorite fighting game, but there's something I noticed while playing it last night.
After playing DOA4, T5 felt boring and repetitive.
I hadn't really noticed that about Tekken5 until after playing DOA4.
In DOA4, you are forced to use different attacks and combinations, to become unpredictable and avoid getting countered.
In Tekken5, players tend to follow the same effective/safe patterns more often, ( This move beats that one every time ) making the matches look a little boring compared to the ones in DOA4.
Like with jin, I use these moves constantly after blocking or to keep the opponent away.
1,2
2,1
df+1, 4
2, 4
1,d+3
f+3
f+4
In DOA4, if a player does this and becomes predictable, they’ll get countered worse than in T5.
The player also needs to vary their attacks after blocking something because in DOA4, your opponent can counter what would be guaranteed in T5 and VF4.
A player has to trick the opponent instead of relying so much on a pre-set equation.
That's something I like about DOA4, I just wish it would be done differently.
Just off the top of my head....
I'd tone down the critical stun for one. Make it work more like the launchers in VF4 and Tekken5, so it doesn't happen as often or last as long.
Then instead of being able to do a reversal during a stun, you could do a timed block / evasion. = H, M, or L individual guard, not like a normal H/M H/L guard.
That could be a stun breaker, then you could block like normal or do a reversal.
There could be some attacks that flow with different block animations.
Like if there were movie style blocks and evasions.

A Left, outside block could flow with some Right Punch or a Left Kick.
A med block could flow in to a back dash to a spring forward attack.
A L. knee raise block to a L front kick.
Buffer different attacks / moves for different blocks.
The block animations would be pre set.
Then the opponent could cancel some recovery animations in to some blocks, like in real life.
Regular T5 guaranteed block ~ attacks would be semi guaranteed in the sense that you have to JF block against it. And you have to choose H,M or L for that JF guard.
I'd have throws work against stunned or collapsing opponents too. That would enable flashier looking combos and more complexity for the opponent to deal with.
I think something like this could make the fights flow better and keep them looking less repetitive.

I can help.

Almost everything, lol.

In actuality, I felt VF4 focused on more speed rather than technique. Chalk that one up.

Might that because you could've took the technique for granted with it being a VF game and possibly only took notice of things that stood out as new, or different?

I agree on the points about DOA, it makes me feel that in that area of unpredictability, DOA is the most realistic fighting game.

Great, guys i think you all have great ideals for our new gameplay design engine. But, we have some great things for you guys in this next MK. goodbye for now very sleepy.

1. There hasn't been a great idea in a MK game for years.
2. The real Ed Boon is smart enough to not put all his name in capitals, put a comma inbetween his forename and surname and spam emoticons.

I'm confused by ED,BOON's post.

Doesn't Ed have a Midway developer Avatar?



Or did he forget his pass word and make a new account???

Can the mods look this up real quick?

A comment on the combat system for MK.

I'd like the combat in MK to be the center of focus in future releases.

MK's combat design in MKD gives the impression of being stuck with old ideas and restraints, that prevent it's ability to step in to the next generation with what I see as it’s potential.

Too restrained in it's design, and too simple.

I'd like to see the series go with this general idea for combat.

Design the game play engine to resemble a fantasy martial arts movie fight. If the MK world actually existed, how would the fights be?

Design special moves to look epic or movie style instead of the typical ball of light.

For example, the special moves used in the MKD intro would be great to have in the actual game play.

Have Raiden's lightning actually look like lightning.
Have shang do magical moves, like the fire snake.
Have Scorpion swing his spear like a rope dart, like in MKSM.
etc.

Forget about the limitations of the past and be more open to what is possible now, while keeping logic in mind.

For example, don't limit something that wouldn't be limited in real life.
Something like reversals

Instead of limiting them to 3, design them so they work properly.

Instead of having dial combos, have combos with many variations to trick the opponent in to blocking the wrong way. Instead of forcing them to take all the hits.

Long dial combos, make short dial combos pointless.

Keep stuff like that in mind for everything.

drop the 3 style system because it feels too much like a gimmick.

Just focus on 1 empty hand arsenal instead of separating everybody in to 2.

Pretty much, every other 3D fighter does this and it feels more natural.
Games like, Tekken 5, VF4, DOA4 and SC3 do this.

Reason being...

Not every character has multiple styles or sub stances.

some have just 1 stance

some have 2 or more stances depending on how they fight.

And they are part of the same style a lot of times, not different styles.

To me it feels more natural because they don't force stuff like that on every character.

I'd find it more believable if the way it was done in MK varied more with the characters background, instead of having it be a generic design. This should be used to give the different fighters more of an identity.

Sub zero studied with his clan and mastered this one style.

Ermac was created from different souls, and can use a combination of styles. Not necessarily separated like in MKD. They can be hybrids and flow together.

Shang Tsung would be able to change like in the old games, so he has a ton of styles. This is the essence of Shang tsung and makes him Who he is. He could have styles from characters that don't exist.

Maybe instead of a full switch, he could have them be like sub stances, used like in the MKSM intro movie.

The general idea is to make it feel right and natural for every character, instead of trying to make it something different from other games.

That wasn't Ed Boon at all. The real Boon will have the icon Bleed posted next to his name. That guy was just someone spoofing.



Anyway, I have some questions for the regulars of this thread, and it would be appreciated if you could answer as quickly as possible. (Note: I realize you all have discussed these issues extensively here, but please repost whatever you have to say now. This is important, and will serve a purpose. Hopefully you'll decide to follow through)


1) What do you feel needs to be addressed the most from MK:D's fighting engine?

This is basically to get an idea of what you guys feel is most flawed with the engine and what needs to be fixed. I'm fairly sure it has already been confirmed they will use the same engine once again, so changing the engine from the roots up is impossible. Give ideas on what needs to be fixed the most in the engine.


2) What new additions to the MK series would you like to see in MK7?

This would include things like, most obviously, a wake up game. List anything not in MK:D's engine at all you think is required to create a great, modern fighting engine.


Basically, I want you guys to list the major issues each of you have. I would simply like to get an overall idea on what is most important to the people in this thread. If you wish to write a lot of things, that isn't a problem. The more you do write the more I would appreciate your response. Again, I would like quick responses or at least as quick of a response as possible.

1) For starters, I want each and every character balanced. Jade does way too much damage with her combos if she blocks, for example, a Torpedo or a Bicycle Kick. That's 60% damage in three hits, alone. Same thing with Tanya after she throws a cornered opponent. And the damage gets worse when you factor in the use of the weapon style.

A second thing that should be addressed is the throwing situation. See, you could use the Breaker to escape from throws, but that would not work on every single throw. Not to mention the whole "Free Throwing" bullshit. A good way to reduce cheap-ass infinites is to not allow characters to hit an opponent after throwing them until BOTH characters recover from the throw. The fact that you cannot block a throw makes combos that start with a throw completely unbalanced, especially those that result in 100% damage combos.

2) For one, I want the whole "automatically get up after being knocked down" bullshit to be eliminated. I want more wake-up games out of the next MK game. Just look at the number of infinites that could be reduced by doing just that.

Second, eliminate the use of one button to do a throw. It's too damn easy, and there's too much free throwing going on in MKD. Not to mention too many infinites going on because of it.

Third, I want some throw escapes, or even throw reversals in there. This is an alternative to my suggestion in the second paragraph to my answer to question number 1. If they want to throw-whore you, you should have the wide-open option available to make them pay. Throw escapes...well, that would be self-explanatory. You cancel out the opponent's throw, and you can punish him/her with whatever your heart desires. Throw reversal...let's say, for instance, Tanya does her MKD throw on you. As soon as she flips over your head and gets ready to slam you over her head, you could instead do a throw reversal, and what would happen is, your character would grab Tanya by the head, and you would throw her over your head, instead of the other way around. Good way to make people pay for trying to cheese you.

If there's one thing that needs to be fixed is all of the glitches and of course, Bo Rai Cho's insane distance with his stick(Jojutsu). Addressing the glitches, they give an unfair advantage during the matches cause they can lead to grabs that can then lead to high damage combos or partial infinites that are difficult to evade of get out of.

Darrius' grab is one example. One done while in his Gauntlets Style anyone can walk up and do 1,2,4,4,4 to deliver approx 49% damage to their opponent. There's no need to use any of his other moves, just this tactic and the match is over. An opening for this is his "Target Practice"(d,t,3) move. It's a "plant" move that allows Darrius to advance and most often grab the opponent so they can use 1,2,4,4,4. In total, this is approx 59% damage. As I stated, all someone has to do is get his/her opponent in a corner, perform this tactic and the match is over.

Ashurah has an infinite that people use to win a match un-contested. All someone has to do is grab an opponent, then jump back and jump foward and hit 4 while falling to deliver a kick. This stagers the opponent and gives her a chance to repeat the grab and jump-in kick repeatedly for the win. Though a method has been discovered to evade the grab after the jump-in kick, it's still no satisfactory solution to the problem of someone using an unfair advantage such as this.

Free throws are another issue. They are throws/grabs that can be excecuted after delivering a move that staggers the opponent long enought to move in and grab. I could personally give examples of how this can be done, but this thread can do so much better than I can in explaining it.

In regards to another character, Dairous' Tombstone Drop is one of the most overused moves in the game if not 'the' most. The reason being is that someone can run away, to the TS Drop and then his "Iron Leg" projectile move. That's all. It's basically not a fight at all. All one can do is TS Drop and his projective while staying away at the furthest distance. There are players online who have winning streaks of 100-200+ and most times, they've used Dairou to achieve this. As if I feel like chasing someone all over the stage and jump to avoid his TS Drop all day. Plus, it's is way too fast when performed.



Individual characteristics. What I mean is, each character should have more uniqueness when they're getting up, are hit, stagger, walk, etc. There seems to be 2-3 set movements along these lines between a large goup of the characters.

A great addition would be varying the types of blocks that are done so that they resemble technical blocking that you'd see in a Hong Kong Martial Arts movie or alternate hand/foot/elbow blocks where the character is actually moving with their arms/legs/body. Fluidity of movement in the character's application of techniques is the basic need, in my opinion.

And as a regular I am happy to oblige.



Ok, this is the core of everything gameplay discussion revolves around. It'd be impossible for me to list every single thing that should be changed, but what I'll do is discuss three points that if fixed will make the game far superior.

1) Frame Advantage: MK needs frame advantage. And it has to be applied well. As it stands, a slow move in MK:D is fundamentally useless. The reason it is useless is because it does not put the user in much of an advantageous position if the attack is successful but when missed, it can be punished severely. For instance, a slow punch to the gut should be punishable if blocked or avoided but at the same time (to balance that risk) there needs to be a substantial reward; frame advantage above all else. Substantial frame advantage in this situation allows me as the attacker to take advantage of the fact that I made contact with a high risk move. Just like gambling, if something is high risk, then it should be high reward as well.

This works for quick pokes too which should be low risk/low reward. A quick jab does not do a whole lot of damage but it should cause a small amount of frame advantage, say, 3 frames, in order to allow the attacking player to pressure his opponent. This also prevents the attacker from eating too much damage if a low reward move like a small damage jab is blocked. Why should I take 40% damage because you blocked my 5% damage jab? Without frame advantage, my jab is low reward but the risk is high. A small bit of frame advantage fixes that.

2) Escapable Throws: The throws in Deception were unblockable which was a step in the right direction from the blockable ones in Deadly Alliance, but unfortunately they weren't escapable. In Deception, there are more infinite combos then there are characters and nearly every one of them relies on the fact that throws can't be escaped. Throws punish defense but they are also very strong and put the attacker at a great advantage. Therefore, the defending player should have the chance to nullify that. This also creates a problem though. If there is only one throw, then it becomes too easy to escape throws. That's why fighting games often employ a minimum of 2 throws per character. That way, each throw has its own escape command, usually related to the command of the throw. This way, when a player is thrown he has the chance to escape it but first he must guess/know/predict which throw is being used and then input the escape command within the given time frame. I believe Tekken uses 12 frames on average and Virtua Fighter uses 8 frames.

3) Wakeup/Oki: Mortal Kombat must have a ground game. Players should be able to stay on the ground if they choose, roll around, get up when they choose, and use what can be simply called "get up attacks" after hitting the floor. Likewise, the person who knocked the other player down should be able to hit them on the ground using stomps and other types of ground attacks. A major problem with Deception was that if I knock you on the ground I know precisely when you will be getting up because the game forces you to. Therefore, I can punish you with ease. Wakeup allows the grounded player to not only have more options and thus be able to avoid taking damage, but to do some as well with the aforementioned "get up attacks."



Well, clearly I believe all three of those listed above are the most important requirements. Here I will discuss the fact that the combo system is too restrictive. Players should not be forced to rely on canned combos created by the developers. It's fine to include some basic strings for good measure but the really good stuff should be left up to the player. With frame advantage, stuns, crumples, launchers (popups), and other special move properties, the player can guarantee their own damage with a series of moves that aren't necessarily "meant" to link together. If the characters' movesets are fleshed out enough with useful moves that employ these kinds of properties then that issue will work itself out.



For reference, take a look at the very first post in this thread. I made sure to include definitions of a number of important elements. Though I may not have listed them here, every single one of them is important and needs to be included in MK7.

This is gonna be long as hell....But I tried to make it as simple as possible to follow.
This is a general idea of what I'd like to see in MK7.
==========================================================

1 = A solid Risk VS Reward system.

2 = Throw escapes

3 = Block able strings, instead of guaranteed dial combos.

4 = Wake up attacks

5 = A more reliable way of using special attacks

6 = Fighting styles depending on the character’s background instead of a generic system.

7 = The use of diagonals on the D. pad and simultaneous button presses.

8 = A more film like fighting experience, not so much like a video game.

9 = Having a base set up for different types of attacks

10 = No block damage for punches and kicks.

11 = Try to design a way to get out of every situation

12 = A good reversal and parry system

13 = A stun system

14 = Hitting a floored opponent

15 = Special knock off moves

16 = Jump attacks have different uses.

17 = Better movement

18 = New, more realistic guarding style

19 = Stage moves for certain characters

20 = Make ring outs harder to do

21 = Tone down the juggles and launch throw juggles.

22 = New idea for Juggle recovery

23 ) Check Codes

24 ) Buffering

25 ) Shorter, more realistic recovery times.

26 ) A more natural looking block stance

27 ) Wall slam during a juggle

28 ) Early / timed defense
==========================================================
1 ) A solid system of Risk VS Reward for every move.

Frame advantage and disadvantage depending on the type of attack and it's potential benefit.

The lack of this system in MKD makes the game play frustrating because it feels illogical in practice.

The basic idea behind this is as follows...

An attack that does not give you a major benefit on connection should be safe.

A powerful attack that gives you a moderate benefit on connection should be moderately safe.

A powerful attack that gives you a large benefit on connection should be not safe.

Safety = It’s a combination of the block stun and recovery for the attack.
A = If the opponent blocks the attack, how long are they in a block stun before they can attack again.
B = How long does it take you to recover after throwing the attack, so you are able to guard.

Depending on the “potential effectivenessâ€? of the attack, A and B can vary to balance the move not making it too useful or useless, find a good balance.

This is one of the most essential parts of a solid fighting engine.


==========================================================
2 ) Throw escapes

A throw that is inescapable = cheap / unfair

It results in overpowering tactics, such as infinites and unfair damage for combos and set ups.

Throws need to have different ways of being escaped, and it can’t be too easy. Otherwise, they become useless because they are too easy to escape.

For this reason, there needs to be more than 1 throw option.
The opponent should also have a chance to see the attack coming.

So, have different grab animations for the different throw attempts.

Grab with the L. arm
Grab with the R. arm
Grab with both arms
Grab with the leg
And so on.

This way, you don’t just have a random chance of escaping the move.

==========================================================
3 ) Block able strings, instead of guaranteed dial combos.

A long dial combo makes a short dial combo pointless. That’s reason enough to drop the idea.

Strings, like the ones found in other games require reflexes and skill to use.

Variable attack height’s during these strings give you the ability to trick the opponent in to blocking the wrong way, instead of forcing them to take every hit.

These combos can include special moves, making them more useful and integrated in to each fighters martial art, instead of it just being a side item.

Strings can include..

Delay able attacks
Charge able attacks
Cancelable attacks
Cancelable delays using the block button.
Stance or style switching
Throws
Stun attacks
Launchers
Push back attacks
Poke attacks

==========================================================
4 ) Wake up system

* Have the option to stay down when you fall. Press Block to stand up and use the Joy stick to roll.
* Have several attack options while one the floor. Like instead of just having a basic stand up Low and Med kick. Have it work like a ground arsenal. Characters that have lie down stances could use them automatically when they fall. Don’t give everybody the same attacks. Do something more varied, like in Virtua fighter = different animations. The characters special powers could be used for wake up moves also.


==========================================================
5 ) A more reliable way of using special attacks

Blend the powers with the martial arts = Work the powers in to, combos, throws, reversals….

Make the powers faster, track, or wide to make them effective at long range.

Have some powers be chargeable = Like when Raiden charges the electric blasts in the MKD intro.
Use something cool looking like that, instead of a slow motion wind up whenever possible.

A charged special move could cause any of these things.

Travel across the screen instantly

Become unblock able and more powerful

Cause a guard break

Be able to absorb another projectile.

Become a wide attack, or like Shang’s fire snake in the MKD intro.

Try and make the powers look epic, or like something you would see in a movie.
Not always a ball of light.

Try, energy waves
Distortions in space
Time warping
Magical transformations = Fire snake
Bolts of energy
Smokey energy
Mental distortions
Teleporting projectiles
Have Scorpion swing his spear like in Shaolin Monks. It could be faster, for combos.
Mavado could use his weapons sort of like Kratos in the game God of War.
Etc.

Have lots of special effects, like for Fujin have leaves and stuff fly around him like in a kung fu movie.

For rain, have him control liquids with telekinesis, but have him use the opponent’s blood as the medium.
He could extract the blood from the opponent like Shang’s soul steal in MKDA, or by just attacking them.


==========================================================
6 ) Fighting styles depending on the character’s background instead of a generic system.

Drop the 3 style system, it kills the character’s individuality and seems like a gimmick instead of something believable or serious.

If you must have the weapons in there, just have it as 1 of 2 main fighting options.

Instead of 3 styles, just have 1 empty hand and 1 weapon system.

Or just have the weapons be on the stage, and the characters have to find and pick them up.

We’d be just fine with the fighting engine being focused mainly on hand to hand combat.


Each character needs to have their fighting techniques be determined by their experience in training.

Scorpion trained with his clan and mastered that style.

Kano, maybe traveled and learned multiple styles and can use a hybrid technique

Some one like a Shaolin can use a more rigid style method = switching from one style to another, but not as rigid as in MKD. Have them flow together more.

And so on for everybody, they trained how, when, where, why, what is their personality,…….This should determine their methods.

That’s why having a basic or generic system for that part of the game, just doesn’t fit, It’ not natural and too generalized.


The arsenals should also be diverse for every character. A lot more options than in MKD.

Think of how the fighters move lists would be if they were real.

The fighting styles should feel free and natural, not pre set.

Don’t keep it overly simple, elaborate instead.

==========================================================
7 ) The use of diagonals on the D. pad and simultaneous button presses.


With a more realistic / elaborate set of moves, the diagonals and simultaneous button presses are necessary.

==========================================================
8 = A more film like fighting experience, not so much like a video game.

Just to give a mental image of this idea.

Play a martial arts movie, Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Tony Jaa, Jackie Chan……….

While in a fight scene, hold a game controller in your hand and pretend that you are playing the movie, like it was a video game.

This should open up your mind to a lot of things that would make the game play seem more natural, or just flow better like on film.

Start to notice things like…

* Low blocking is done by moving your legs, back dashing, back flips…., not crouching unless you were just knocked to the floor and are trying to get up.
* Attacks can go back and forth in a fluid motion = attack, parry, attack, attack, parry, attack, reversal...
* People do little taunts or extra animations after blocking, or knocking the opponent down.
* Fighting stances change after a few seconds, so it’s not the same loop over and over…..
* Some attacks naturally flow with certain block animations. = Block (A) flows with attack (7)
* Some attacks automatically beat others = A sweep beats a high kick, A knee strike beats a round house.
A flying kick can not be stopped by a jab. Some moves have an auto block ability.
* Some attacks when blocked cause the person to loose balance, or fall.
* You can jog back and to the sides
* You can link a Med block to a back dash.
* You can attack a floored opponent and they can defend or attack also.
* A fighter suffers from fatigue
* The only time a person takes more than 2 successive hits is when they are dizzy, or off balance.
* You can cancel some attack recovery animations in to a certain block.
* People shuffle or jog back while blocking, they don’t slide like in video games.
* Walls are used in combat with throws and wall slam combos.
* Some fighters are able to withstand attacks that others wouldn’t = A strong character has more endurance and can not be stunned or knocked down as easily.
* Fighters relax when they are far from their opponent, They’ll put their arms down and be more loose. When they get closer, they get back in to the fighting stance.
* You don’t see anybody getting knocked out by a weak attack.
* An opponent never stands there dizzy and let you kill them. It’s usually done towards the end of a fight, when the opponent is weak. Fatalities could be done when the opponent is in danger , or it could be a slow starting super move when the opponent is at 50% health.


Etc.


==========================================================
9 ) Having a base set up for different types of attacks

Have a standard set up for attacks, so you can guess what the commands are for any character.

df + p = usually an uppercut, or attack to the mid section

db + p = Low attack

Just have a basic set up like this that works with every character. Not like what’s in MKD.

Have lower body attacks go in the kick buttons and have upper body attacks go in the punch buttons.

Lead punch Rear punch
Lead kick Rear kick

Like the basic set up in Tao Feng, but used in a completely different way.

This system is more organized and works the same with the left foot forward, or the right foot forward.

==========================================================
10 ) No block damage for punches and kicks.

In a video game, this should be a voided because it punishes successful defense against basic attacks.

Also, nobody is KO’d by blocking a kick.

An instance in which block damage would be ok is against fireballs.
They can cause block damage, or become unblock able if it’s a charged attack.

==========================================================
11 ) 11 = Try to design a way to get out of every situation

This will help to eliminate overpowering tactics.

This could be any of these things.

1 = Perfect blocking, when stunned = Saves you from extra damage
2 = Staying on the ground = Can help avoid follow up attacks when floored
3 = Parry, or reversal = Gets you out of bull dog situations, like a jab trap, or a continuous attack pattern.
4 = Blocking during a combo = Saves you from extra damage
5 = Throw escape = Gives you a way out of an unblock able attack
6 = Stun or Launch Tec. = Like a throw escape, it saves you from unblock able damage.

These escapes can’t bee easy.

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12 ) A good reversal and parry system

It can’t be too easy and it should not be limited to any number.

A real martial artist would not have a limited amount of reversals.

Have Reversals and parries work when you are NOT in a stun.

They can work against single attacks, or while blocking.

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13 ) A stun system

Something that allows for a 2 ~ 4 hit standing combo to connect on a stunned or collapsing opponent. The amount of hits allowed depends on the damage each attack causes and what type of attacks they are.

It could be like a toned down version of the DOA critical stun.

If you are in a critical stun, you can get out of it with a special block, timed like a parry.
High, Med, or Low individual block height zones.

This can’t be too easy to do, have the special block window be open for like 3 - 6 frames.
Whatever feels comfortable after testing.

This timed guard can be done during a stun, as an escape move.
It just enables blocking, not a reversal.

If you perform a successful block, you are then able to continue blocking like normal.

Don’t have a twitchy animation for this either. There can be something to punish a missed special block though. Like have a smooth wave of the hands in the zone of the block.

If you miss the special block, you take counter damage, or can be launched during the stun.

Attacks cause less damage during a stun combo, just like with a juggle.

These stun combos can be seen in movies a lot.

The powerful stun attacks that work on a clean hit are not safe on block.
The stun attacks that only work as a counter can be semi safe on block.

The attacks that can start this type of stun or collapse are few, just like with launch attacks.
Other regular attacks can cause the stun only if they connect as a counter hit.

This is to keep stuns from happening too often.


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14 ) Hitting a floored opponent

If the opponent lies on the ground, you can do stomp attacks, or use some regular attacks to hit them while they are down. Special moves, like Raiden does to Shang Tsung in the MKD intro, and ground throws could work also.

If they roll, you have the additional option of hitting them with med height attacks, that can lead to a collapse combo or juggle. Depending on the attack, you get different follow up options.

Have ground attacks knock the opponent far enough away, so that you can’t keep hitting them over and over.

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15 ) Knock off moves

Not every character needs to have this.

Moves that automatically do something special if they cause a knock off.

These could be like a wall throw, or some special move that has this option if used as a knock off.

Move examples

Scorpion = Teleport blade attack to the falling opponent.

Raiden = Becomes a lightning bolt and crashes down on the opponent as they hit the floor.

Fujin = Air lift

Some could just do a follow up stomp, or a body slam…

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16 ) Jump attacks have different uses.

A jump kick could work like in the old MK games.
A jump punch could cause a stun that leads to an extra attack

Cross over jump attacks can be done, just don’t make them flipped animations like in the 2D games.

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17 ) Better movement

Add a quick dash, forward and back.

Add running and run attacks

Maybe add a backwards jog, to replace multiple back dashing. Just to make it look more real.

Make jumps go over fireballs

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18 ) New, more realistic guarding style

I love the block animations in MKD.

I’d like to see it taken further and made to look more like in a kung fu movie.

The same with low attacks.

In the movies, low attacks are guarded against while standing up, not crouching.

Holding down back+Block would make you stand up, but guard High and Low.

Against high attacks, you automatically duck, and against lows, you lift your leg, or move back.

If you time a jump with a low attack, you would do a back flip, or a long hop back.

Holding Down+Block would give you the basic crouch.

When you are against a wall, you would block like a boxer, instead of doing fancy stuff because you don’t have the room to move.

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19 ) Stage moves for certain characters

Wall throws
Platform knock off special moves
Off wall jumps and attacks

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20 = Make ring outs harder to do

You should only be able to knock the opponent out of the arena or in to a death trap with strong attacks or with some throws = Attacks that make the opponent fly back on contact.

Weak attacks like a jab, should not be able to do this.

Fights are more satisfying when they last longer, so implementing easy ways to end a match instantly is a BAD idea.

I just looked at the Game informer, and it says that there is a directional throw system to make throwing the opponent in to a death trap easier. This is a bad idea for a serious 1 on 1 fighter, it's cheap and ends the fun too quickly.

Imagine how bad it's gonna be if the throws are still inescapable.

It works well for something like Konquest, but not the traditional combat.
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21 = Tone down the juggles

This would help to solve the problem with excessively high damage juggles. Over 50% damage is too much.

It would also solve the problem of launch throws leading to ridiculous damage.

If a throw can launch, then give it a higher risk on miss, a longer escape window, or make it block able like in MKDA. An unblock able move that leads to a juggle is too powerful and needs to be toned down some how.

Ways of toning down the juggles.

1 = Add a juggle recovery that is not limited to 3, and that is not very easy to do. (MKD's breaker is not good)

2 = Make juggle bouncing heavier or push back more

3 = Add a low bounce, or low juggle for launch throws

4 = Add a far away launch for launch throws, so you can't land too many hits.

etc.
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22 ) New idea for Juggle recovery

When you take a launch hit, you can recover by tapping BLK + down, or BLK+ back the instant in which the first juggle hit connects. The timing on this has to be hard, so juggles don’t become useless. Maybe make it a 1 or 2 frame window.

You will take the hit, but it will end the juggle by changing the way you react to the hit.

BLK + d will make you heavy and cause you to fall to the floor immediately.
* You can tec. roll
* It can save you from a ring out.

BLK + b will make you fly back, like a back dash and you land standing.
* It moves you away and avoids ground attacks.
* If you do this near an edge, it will cause a ring out or death trap.
* You will slam against a wall if close to one, but you can do a Wall Tec. roll.

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23 ) Check Codes

Have a code that checks if a button is being held down or not. For example, in MKD using Scorpion in his Hapkido stance. Press, 4, then quickly hold BLK and forward or back.

The correct result for this would be that he would go in to his block stance right after the kick. In MKD though, he ignores the BLK button and just walks unable to defend.

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24 ) Buffering

Have the ability to input the next command before the previous attack’s animation ends.

When that previous animation ends, the buffered one should come out automatically.

Have it, so you can only buffer a Joy stick input, then you press the attack button when the previous animation finishes to make the move happen.

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25 ) Shorter, more realistic recovery times.

In MKD, the recovery animations are too slow for the most part. Characters attack, then just linger there for a little while before being able to defend, or attack again.

This makes the game play too slow and messes with the Risk VS Reward and Mix up systems.

The speed for this was better in MKDA, but look to games like Tekken 5 and Virtua fighter 4 for a good example.


Have the recovery times be comfortable, even if you don’t finish a combo string.

In MKD, if you don’t finish some of the strings, your character takes way too long to recover.

You need to be able to recover faster when canceling a combo, to throw other attacks and try to fool the opponent in to taking a hit.

This technique is called a mix up.

If you have delayable strings like in Dead or Alive, just use the block button to cancel the delay so you can do the mix ups.

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26 ) A more natural looking block stance

In you ever watch a real fight, you’ll notice that fighters don’t hold their arm up waiting for an attack to come.

Instead, they do some flinch, or ready animations, like raising their hands, or lowering them, The actual block animations come when the attacks are thrown.

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27 ) Wall slam during a juggle

Instead of having the combo automatically freeze / stop and your fighter magically slide back. Have the opponent slam in to the wall, and allow the combo to continue = wall stun combo.

There could be moves that just slam the opponent against a wall, and others could make them bounce off it.

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28 ) Early / timed defense

This allows you to block before the recovery animation for an attack has finished.

During your recovery frames after some attacks, If you tap Block, or BLK+d when the opponent attacks, you’ll cancel / flow in to a special block animation. Make the window small, like 1 - 2 frames.

Maybe have some attacks be able to guard early, only at certain heights depending on the recovery animation for that move. = H, M, L, or a combination.

Some of these early blocks can lead to new attacks.

[ Example ]
You throw a Right, high round house kick, the opponent blocks it and throws a jab, you do an early block that causes a special block animation that can flow with a certain attack.

{ Example ]

This early block could be an "inside block" with your Right hand that leaves you with your R. foot forward. That stance could now flow with something like.....A Left hook to the ribs, or a Left sweep kick.

You have to press the correct button quick after the block, like with a dial combo.

The opponent could defend against your counter with their own early block.

This would result in some kung fu movie style back and forth blocks and attacks.

Remove the breaker idea that’s used in MKD, and try to come up with something better.

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And, there’s still more….

Instead of typing out something that will look no-where near as good as Bleed's post I will just pick out the three points that I think are more important to me.

1) The RVR system (Risk vs Reward) that involves the use of frame-rate

2) A decent parry and reversal system
and

3) Blockable strings, instead of guranteed dial-a-combos




I feel that with these three alone MK: A would make it in the next Evolution with ease, who would not want to play it?

I'm updating that same long post I made, as I think of new stuff.

Also after reading some of the new game play elements for MKA in the Game informer magazine.

New worries come to mind...

The air combo system sounds OK. Don't know enough about it to really critique it.

This isn't looking good at all to me. This thread is wonderful; I'm talking about the game.

They kept the same graphic style and poses they've been using for the last two games. There's more characters and stages in this game than in the last two combined. They couldn't even handle MKD without there being glitches popping up, and now they want to damn near double the amount of characters they had? Damn it.

The one thing that i feel absolutely needs to be addressed is the sharing of character moves.
I for one would prefer 10 characters, but 10 damn unique characters, The team developing this game SHOULD NOT use the amount of characters as an excuse to make shortcuts. Styles and moves should not be shared.

Of course im 99% sure they will be . :(


I would love to see all 60 characters playable in konquest mode, and a couple of small side games, something like MK pong.

mk7 needs.


1.Throw escapes

2.Wake-up

3.get rid of the dial combo

4.balance damage caused

5.Grabs should not result in a combo (like jinko when he grabs you ur able to perform a 50% hit combo from it 2 grabs rounds over this needs to be fixed

6.Be reasonable on how much maximum damage a combo can do none of this 70-80% on one combo way to much

7.get rid of the glitchs and infinitys

I think it's great to see a lot of you put so much thought and effort into making MK7 better then it'll probably will turn out to be, it's just a shame that it'll probably never be that good, not even close to being solid.

They couldn't balance 24 characters, and I'll be damned if they can manage to balance 60+.

I added more stuff to my long post.

Awesome stuff bleed. Even just applying a few things suggested (wake up, throw reversals) would make MKA a good game.
Here's my optimism kicking in again.
Realistically, many of the characters are going to share the same fighting styles. We know this already. Some may share the same weapons. We know this. No time (well, little time) has been spent on redesigning characters from MKDA to MKD, or their fighting styles.
They have been working on this game since MKD came out, and only had maybe 8 characters to redesign for this one. This, IMO, gave them some pretty good time on their hands to fix some of the things that was wrong in MKD.
Are the odds pretty good they have used the extra year and a half to add balance, test broken crap, and at least one or two of the elements suggested to better balance and enhance the game play? What are your thoughts everyone?