BO rai chos OTG w/ out the throw this is his otg. this otg when finished leads into his throw OTG very sick broken crap

here is just about the full list of online and offline OTGS. the rest are hits like ermacs f+1 otg. ill leave those for thug to discover.

all otg's come from the way your foe falls. its the slide and fall w/ their backs on the ground & their Legs are wayyyyyyyyyy up in the air. now there are falls where they fall on their back, but their legs arent wayyyyyyyy in the air, otgs arent possible w/ these.

the sad part is clearly the mk team knew of this problem, since some of these cant work offline because when some characters end their combo w/ this type of attack. the attacker is stuck in animation for a while, like liu kangs f+2. their solution was to make them have delay after these attacks, the problem is the online lag what they should have done was remove all of these type of plants.

anyway here are all of the otgs.

OFFLINE OTGS
THE VIDEO

i did by accident add one or ermacs twice and noobs twice.. oops. to tired to fix :-\

konqrr~could you add this to your site? so that theres a constant link to it.

A shrah
Throw, wait till they fall, then hit w/ a mid.
2nd stance combos ending w/ f+3

Mileena
1st stance After 3
2nd stance after combos ending w/ 4,1 wait till her right arm starts to retract then hit back+222

Jade
3rd stance back+2, kick special, then kick special over and over.
3rd stance When combos end w/ up+3

Kabal
1st stance combos ending w/ 1, 3

Ermac
2nd stance pop up, f+1 tele slam
2nd stance same as above, but if your in real close to the wall keep hitting f+1 instead of the slam.

Kobra
1st stance Combos ending w/ 2
3rd combos ending w/ f+1

Bo rai cho
any stance~throw then attack
2nd stance Combos ending w/ 3,3,cs


Darrius
any stance~throw, then attack
1st stance combos ending w/ 2 *note you have to CS to get the free hit, like do cs, 4.
3rd stance combos ending w/ f+1

Kira
1st stance after a combo is finished w/ 4,2 a free ball is allowed any where on screen. Easier near wall.

Hotaru
Throw, wait till they fall, then hit w/ a mid.
1st stance end a combo w/ back+1

Tanya
any stance~throw, then attack

NOOB
any stance~throw, then attack






Online OTGs

keep in mind, it depends on how much lag there is in these matches, for these to work. some wont work w/ little lag, your gonna need alot of lag for them to work..

Ashrah *
1st stance end a combo w/ f+1

Jade
1st stance end a combo w/ 3
2nd stance when you finish a combo w/ back+2

Scorpion*
3rd stance when you finish a combo w/ f+1

Mileena*
2nd stance end a combo w/4,1
3rd stance end a combo w/ back+1

Nightwolf*
2nd stance after a combo finishes w/ 2
3rd stance when a combo finishes w/ f+2

Havik*

1st stance after back+4
3rd stance when combos finish w/ 3

Dairou

2nd stance combos ending w/ back+2

Bo rai cho*
1st stance f+2
3rd stance combos ending w/ back+1

Sindel
1st stance combos ending w/ 1,1,2
3rd stance combos ending w/ 1,1,4

Raiden
1st stance combos ending w/ back+2
2nd stance into 3rd~ combos ending w/ 1,1,3,cs,4,3
3rd stance combos ending w/ up+4??????? Im not combo skilled to test this one for sure. Can a combo be ended w/ up+4 in weapon?

Li mei
1st combos ending w/ back+4
1st combos ending w/ back+1
2nd combos ending w/ f+2
3rd combos ending w/ up+1

Kabal
2nd stance combos ending w/ 2 or 1,2
3rd stance combos ending w/ back+2

Ermac
3rd stance Combos ending w/ up+2

NOOB
End a combo w/ 2

Smoke
Back+2~now I know why some folks get a free smoke cloud on me, you fuckers

Tanya
1st stance combos ending w/ F+1
2nd stance back+2

Jinko
1st stance combos ending w/ back+2
2nd stance combos ending w/ f+1
lots of folks are able to get a free slam after 1,1,2 in 1st stance. This only works online.
also thug Is certain that the up+2 hand flame move then tele slam works. But i cant confirm it. I can lie and be like yay I did it, but no I wont.

Kobra
1st stance combos ending w/ 4.
Any stance Combos ending w/ D,B,4
Darrius
Any stance D, f, 3

Kira
1st stance combos ending w/ 4,2
1st stance combos ending w/ back+4
2nd stance combos ending w/ 2

Liu Kang
1st stance combos ending w/ f+2

these 3 have no OTGS

Sub~Zero~has none
Baraka~has none
Kenshi~has none

Histarical stuff there, great post! ! !

Tag would be nice

I have no clue if this has been mentioned in this thread or not, but I'd like to see more character-specific properties given to characters to make them all more unique.

For example, Jax has metallic arms, and uses them to block; why not have him take less blocking damage compared to other characters, since he has the armour protecting him? Also, why not make his melee attacks stronger because of this?

Another one could be having characters resist certain attacks; for example, Sub-Zero, Noob Saibot, and Frost could all be more resistant to freezing, and have the affects only last half of the time compared to other characters (I mentioned Noob Saibot since he did have those powers at one point). Another could be having Scorpion take less damage from flame-based attacks.

Smoke, Sektor, and Cyrax need to be immune to pop-ups; this may sound like a stupid idea, but considering that in MK:DA, it was revealed that Cyrax weighs over 600 pounds, I don't see why he should fly into the air as easily as someone who weighs a third of that (I mentioend Sektor and Smoke with the assumpiton that they weigh the samee as Cyrax). Maybe they could be stunned by the attacks, or just fall to the ground rather than be lifted up. Of course, lighter characters should also be knocked up higher.

Speaking of Sektor, since he'll be getting a whole lot more armour (based on the most recent sketches drawn of him), why not make him more resistant to taking physical blows? Maybe only a quarter less than the others to make his armour at least appear useful.

Shao Kahn and Goro need more power and priority with their attacks compared to the other players; they've always been power-houses, and yet in this game, I felt that they couldn't stand up to a lot of things they would have in the past. If all the bosses from the games (Goro, Kintaro, Shao Kahn, Moloch, Onaga, and hopefully Motaro) are to be playable, I hope that they can have their own seperate tier away from the other 50 characters.

Another idea I'd like to see is the use of BOTH joysticks on the manettes; have the lower D-Pad be used for 2-D movements (back-and-forth and jumping-and-crouching movements), and the higher one for 3-D movements (walking diagonally, into/out of the background/foreground).

This is interesting... But, think about Liu Kang's Fatality in Mk1. I know it's a fatality, but if he can practically knock normal people off the screen then he shouldn't have much trouble at least launching a 600 pound Cyrax.
If you're just basing the idea on how much strength the characters have, that is.

Since we have air combat back, maybe instead of making the robots immune to being launched, like you said just make the ordinary people fly so much higher. This way, although the robots won't be completely immune to being launched, they will have to be attacked in the air with juggles from the ground rather than a long combo with both players airborne. They won't go high enough to be air comboed, but they are still launched in order for a ground based juggle to hit.

You follow?

i think there are some moves that NEED to be unblockable. i mean comon..if an ice ball still touches your arms, it should still freeze your ass.

i just hope the air kombat thing doesnt end up being like that dragonballz crap.

and for the love of god..LOOSE THE 5 MIN FUCKING RECOVERY TIME. nothing pissed me off more about deception then throwing a punch then standing there forever before you could block again. the only way you should have to block is if your character is still in animation. if theyre already back in their stance, they should be able to block.

and i also think the way the breakers were done sucked. there should have been an option to add more or something. id like to see it every character have their own combo breaker combo ala killer instinct, that you can use at any time and it not be limited to a set number.



i love some of these ideas, but the sad thing is, im gettin the feeling that none of us will ever see any of it in this game. my prediction is its gonna be just like mkd, but they added combos in the air and a bunch of characters.

the characters need to have DIFFERENT STYLES AND THE RIGHT STANCES FOR THEM. it pisses me off when two different chars have the same fighting styles..or different styles, but the same stances. with all the fighting styles in the world, its not exactly impossible to come up with 3 for each character...same for the weapons. although, its not uncommon for two fighters to use the same weapon in a tournament (or even styles for that matter)..just make them differnt enough so they dont feel like clones.

(About character traits)

Something could be done with it.

Just that you need to be careful with making one character a lot better or weaker than the others.

Like for Sektor, replace the air combos and juggles with stun and collapse combos.

instead of a launcher popping him in to the air, it would stun or make him fall.

If he's stronger, then make his combos shorter and a little slower.

He could have more guard breaker moves than normal.

Don't give him too many launchers

Lower his juggling and air combo ability.


Make him strong in one area, but make him weaker in another to try and balance him out with the rest of the fighters.

I just hope for the On/Off feature i discussed a page back and that they add
the

Mortal Kombat 2 Ninja Costumes for Kreate a Kharacter

I'm like 99% sure you'll have the old ninja costumes in there.

They are so basic, I can't imagine them not putting them in.

as im sure 99% of the people on here are gonna make a lame ninja wannabe knockoff. no doubt the same people that bitch about characters looking the same. go figure.

No! Absolutely not! That would render my arcade sticks completely useless, not to mention making the game cumbersome and unatural to play. You would have to have the quickest thumbs in the universe to pull off smooth transitions from crouching to moving in and out of the background without screwing it up. I like all of the other ideas you had though..

Peace

You bring an interesting point, actually... I remember someone mentioning that having to hold down a button may be better to allow 3-D movements, and perhaps that would work more easily in Mortal Kombat now. The only catch is that whoever designed the GC manette decided to remove one button from it, making this kind of option available only with the PS2 and X-Box manettes.

For the 8 way movement to work with a joy stick, they could do something this...

* Hold any direction to walk in that direction = 8 way walk = DOA4
* Tap any direction to do a step in that direction = 8 way step
* Double tap any direction to do a quick dash = 8 way quick dash.
* f, F = run forward
* b, B = Jog back
* BLK + down or df = HL guard = crouch
* BLK + db = standing HL guard = movie style blocks
* BLK = standing HM guard = movie style blocks

Jumping could have different ways of working

* BLK + up = jump = like in SC3
or
* Attack button + up and hold = jump = like in VF4.

Or....
They could just remove jumping, and just have jump attacks.

Like you can press uf+kick to do a jumping back hook kick, but you can't just jump and do nothing.

I find jumping to be dangerous in these types of fighting games anyway, so it might be fine to just take it out.

Overall, I enjoy playing MKDA more than MKD.

I liked the speed of MKDA better because it didn't have the long recovery delays for basic attacks like in MKD.

I liked how the throws were unblockable in MKD, but they should have been escapable.

I like having more moves, so MKD wins there.

I like the idea of getting out of a combo, but not how it was done in MKD.

Ummm, that's all I can think of right now.


I think MKD was heading in the right direction, but they just messed everything up.

Like with the throws.

They understand that they need to be unblockable, but they don't seem to know how to design that so it works well.

They know this or that needs to be there, but they don't get how to make it work right.

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7 simple adjustments they could make are...


1 = make throws escapable

2 = make the recovery speed for attacks, more like in mkda. Use Logic with the potential of each attack. A weak attack recovers faster than a powerful one, etc.

3 = have launch throws be blockable, or thwart able. = Make the launch not work. Like a launch tec. recovery that makes you slam in to the ground hard, instead of bouncing.

4 = Use strings with block points instead of dial combos. If dial combos are weak and like 2-3 hit's then it's ok. (A dial combo should NOT launch if the first hit is quick like a jab)

5 = add parries, and reversals instead of the MKD breaker. They can only be done if the character is not recovering or stunned.

6 = add some block stun, so you can't react instantly after blocking an attack. Weak attacks cause less block stun / push back, than strong attacks. (Frame advantage, disadvantage)
This rule can be bent to make some attacks more or less effective.

7 = a ground game = Give the player the choice of getting up, rolling or staying down. Also add some stand up attacks with height variations.


There's a lot more that needs to be done, but those little changes should make the game play a lot better.

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Variable battle style idea for story mode

Have single and team matches combined according to the story.
Loners like Scorpion would fight alone
Teams like Noob / Smoke
Shang tsung and Quan chi would fight as a tag team
You might be forced to switch to single or team battles depending on how the story is unfolding.
So, some characters work as teams throughout the story, and others work alone.
There would be
1 VS 2
1 VS 1
2 VS 2
matches
just give the single player, twice as much life, so it's fair when you have a 2 on 1 match.
Aside from that story mode, have the more basic style of play.
1 on 1= kumite, time attack modes, etc. Characters like Noob and Smoke would fight separately here.
Tag = kumite, time attack modes, etc.
Team = kumite, time attack modes, etc.
these would not be related to the story.

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Idea for Cyrax's net

It could work like a real net, but maybe have it dissipate after a certain distance.

It should be unblockable and with a semi slow start up, like DevilJin's laser in Tekken 5. That'll give you a chance to side step, or teleport out of the way.

Cyrax would be able to cancel the move also, so he can trick some characters in to teleporting, then hit them in the face.

If the net catches you, it will cause damage and make the opponent stumble and fall.


If you are close enough, you can catch them during the stumble and do a collapse combo.

If you get to them after they fall, you can get some ground attacks.

------------------------------------

situation example = Cyrax cancels the net as scorpion does the teleport punch / kick.

Cyrax would not have time to do an uppercut or another powerful attack after a cancel, against the telepunch.

This is because he would have to turn around, and Scorpion's teleport is pretty fast.

Scorpion's inertia would also prevent him from being thrown back far, so he can't fall in to a death trap in this manner.

Maybe he could do a quick backwards attack, like a back fist. He could also duck, exploding teleport, or side step.

If he side steps, he can get a free back throw on Scorpion.

If Scorpion hit's him in the back though, he can get a few extra hits with a follow up back combo.

lot's of options

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Recovery / immobility during the net toss for Cyrax.

It would have to happen for a little while. Like with every other attack, there has to be some recovery time.

This will enable a failed attempt to be punished by the opponent.

Example: If Cyrax throws the net, he takes around 1 second to recover.

The opponent has a number of options for countering from the front.

1 = If you are close, you can hit Cyrax during the start up animation.

2 = If you side step the net, you can throw a projectile as a counter.

3 = If you are close enough and do it soon enough, you can side step, then dash towards Cyrax for a free hit.

4 = You can interrupt Cyrax's start up animation with a projectile.

This would all reqire some fairly quick reflexes. The Cyrax player would have to play tricks with the cancel and know when to actually throw the net so it works.

The net toss would be a little faster than Jinpachi's fireball throw in Tekken 5. Fairly slow, but has a high reward if it lands.

Situations in which Cyrax would be able to use the net.

When the opponent is getting up after a fall = If they do a get up attack, or get up at the wrong time, it will connect.

If the opponent misses with a powerful attack that has a long recovery.

If the opponent jumps

If the opponent has their back turned

If the opponent does a combo that misses = shadow boxing.

If the opponent is stunned, or doing an idle animation = taunt, power up...

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The net could beat other projectiles, because it's a riskier move to use.

It could have some advantages, so having it beat another projectile might be OK.

Two nets, would cancel each other out.

(This would have to be tested better though, because it might not be necessary, or it could make the net too powerful.)

If the net can't beat fireballs, like normal projectiles, the Cyrax player would have to find the opportune time to use it, instead of just throwing it out at random, hoping to hit something.

Fans of well designed fighting games tend to like skill related moves, instead of easy overpowering ones. That should be taken in to consideration for this also.
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controlling the net's direction.

He could have a different launch stance for it.

As he's about to launch the net, he can turn his head to look in the direction it's going to travel. Then point his chest in that direction, to release it.

This would be a split second animation, so you would need a quick eye, like when you try to do a throw escape.


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Face away from the opponent option.

There needs to be a face away option in MK, to keep your fighter from turning around automatically. So you can do a counter to the opponent's back if they are in that situation.

You would have to do something to turn around.
Press block
Side step ~ auto re-align
Back attack ~ re-align
Teleport
Etc.

It needs to take a few frames to turn around, it can’t be instant like in MK.

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Replacement ideas for the breaker.

1 = remove the breaker from MKD, add strings instead of dial combos, then have this for the counter system.

The counter system can have many faces. It doesn't have to be cut down to just this or that single way. Different characters could have different ways of doing counters, giving them a little more originality within the cast.

The MK team could get really creative with this stuff.

Here's my list of variations.

1 = Catch reversal = the animation depends on the martial art.
the reversal could lead to...
A = A throw
B = A lock
C = A launch
D = A stun
E = A shove or position the opponent.
F = Special move could be involved
G = Auto combo
H = Throw chain
etc.


2 = Parries

* A parry could just be done with perfect timing on a block = just frame

* A pre set animation, like the catch reversal

* An attack that works as a parry or has an auto block ability.

* A power block = An attack that beats another and causes a stun, like a special counter hit.

Blocking a round house kick with an elbow strike would do that.

* Basic counter hit = One attack can beat another but causes no major effect.

* A stance that has an auto block or auto parry

* A taunt that has an auto parry or reversal.


The commands for these can vary if necessary.

And not every fighter has some of these, it depends on the fighter's training.

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How to solve the problem of memorizing moves for a ton of characters.

That problem would be solved with a set general command mapping system.

Like what other games have.

1 = jab for every character

df+2 = uppercut or med punch for everybody

and so on...

The animations look different, but the base button mapping is similar for certain types of attacks.

If someone has a high punch, high punch, low kick combo... The command is usually going to be p,p,d+k Or slight variations on that, like f+p,p,d+k

You can figure out how to do full combos without ever having to use the character. You pretty much know the commands for them, by just looking at their animations.


You can have a ton of attacks, use any character and know a lot of their moves instantly this way. You don't even need to look at the moves list.

VF, SC, DOA, Tekken are all like that.

The 3D MK's button mapping is too random, and it causes confusion for a lot of people.

I really really hope they make some sense out of the move programming this time. They dont have to change the 3 style formula (I wish they would, but its so late in the game) but they should have universal button mapping. It only makes sense, why stray from the organized and known HP, LP, HK, LK? Run, I miss that too.. I think I mentioned that before though. The new air game should make things better. At least we can say that MK:A should be the best one of the latest generation MK series.

*Update* I'm thinking they could easily go back to the old button layout and incorporate new elements into it. The escapes by using BLK in conjunction with RN (BLK~RN). Or holding F+repeatedly tapping HP gets you classic jabs (same with LP) while lets just say F-F+HP gets you a stun attack, special arts, like B-F HP a swinging backfist etc.. and just tapping HP without a direction gets you the start of a string like Jax's over-hand smashes in MK3 (only it can be done anywhere, not up against the opponent using RN ) that can follow to any of the other 3 attack buttons (or stance change). Of course still using D+HP is an uppercut for everyone, as well as B+LK is a sweep and B+HK is a roundhouse or powerful knocking back kick. These could variate depending on stance. Hey, an actual use for stances?

If they want to have sub stances for the different fighting syles.

Like the mini stances in SC3, Tekken5, VF4............


There could be many ways to get in to them, even some that haven't been done before.

Different ways and timing to get in to sub stances and attack from them.

1 = Attack ~ stance = An attack that ends in a sub stance.
2 = 1 frame stance cancel ~ attack = Skip the stance motion and go straight for the attack ( MKDA and MKD already have this one )
3 = Full stance animation , attack = Do the stance animation, before you can attack.
4 = 1 frame stance cancel to another stance ( MKDA and MKD have this )
5 = Full stance animation , to another stance
6 = 1 frame stance cancel = cancel the stance using block or something else, like a dash.
7 = Jump attacks that put you in a sub stance
8 = Wake up attacks that put you in a sub stance
9 = Hit recovery and Tec. recovery that leaves you in a sub stance = get hit ~ sub stance
10 = Block recovery ~ sub stance

I haven't seen anything talking about the "infinite combos" that plagued online play for mortal kombat deception. Bo Rai Cho has the "staff then grab," noob smoke has the "ducking punch then grab" ashrah has the jumpkick thing, shujinko has that one when u freeze then use the spear repeatedly, and various other characters have moves that work when they shouldnt... ie. lei mei's spinning sword thing. Noob smoke, following a throw, can fly out of the air and hit you with a kick, often resulting in a death trap for his helpless opponent.

Infinite and glitchy unblockables are not the only problem. Sometimes, while playing online, half the battle is getting both people to pick characters. Someone will get pissed and pick kobra, so then the other person picks dairou, so then the first person switches from kobra to bo rai cho. The characters are too unbalanced.

We already posted how to fix a lot of that stuff, it could take a while to find, cause this thread is so long.

Basically, it's the addition of these things = A lot of fixed glitches

Throw escapes = Ends infinites and are fair

Risk VS Reward = Logical frame system ( Block stuns +)

Ground game = Prevents wake up 50/50 traps.

Tone down the juggle bounce = No more 100% juggles

Have only pop up and strong attacks knock the opponent in to a death trap. = Makes it more fair

Have check codes, so when you are holding a button like block, it actually responds.

Blockable strings, instead of dial combos

Different animations, for stuff like Dairou's tomb stone = slower.

Limit on hold type moves = So you can't do them over and over too quickly = Bo's Puke infinite.

Stun Tec. recovery = To fix Smoke's throw stun problem.

Smoother and more realistic speed for attack animations = Kills 50/50 traps.

Longer recovery for some throws = So you can't throw someone a cross the ring, then walk up to them before they get up. = Liu Kang, Bo Rai cho.

edit : My bad

You know what would be cool? If you could reverse reversals! If you are quick enough during your opponent's reversal, you can reverse it and if they are quick enough they can reverse your reaction, leading into a progressively more difficult chain with big damage opportunities for the winner. It would act like the system in Soul Calibur, where you and your opponent can keep parrying each other for rapid sword fight action. If done well it would look very movie-like.

Also, if your attack that was reversed was a counter-hit, when you reverse the reversal, you would get a counter-hit reversal. A way to visualise this, is to imagine Raiden attacking his opponent and getting a counter-hit. The opponent manages to reverse the counter-hit, but the Raiden player acts quick enough to activate a reversal of this. Because a counter-hit was the initial attack involved, Raiden gets a special bonus from reversing a reversal of this attack. The opponent's reversal involved catching Raiden's counter-hitting leg, so Raiden's bonus reverse would be to surge electricity down his leg, shocking the opponent, kicking them away, dealing big damage and breaking the chain. His normal re-reversal would be to reverse the opponent's catch and if the opponent isn't quick enough to respond, gain damage off of the frame advantage that follows (ala. normal reversals).

I know this sounds tricky and complicated and would definately be next-gen, but it could really make fights between experts look amazing and hollywood esque.

Just a thought.

That'd be awesome

The system would have to be designed so the risk VS reward system isn't messed up.

Doing a reversal is risky and deserves a reward if landed.

It could do a lot of damage or lead to some other powerful attack, but can be reversed, or escaped.

Maybe, there are different reversals you can use, and you need different ways to escape it. This way, you can't just kick, then press f+1+3 every time, in case it gets reversed.

There could be 2 choices, like f+1+3 or f+2+4.

To escape, you would tap 1, or 2

Something that is not easy to do every time, and keeps reversals worth doing in the first place.


There are different ways it could be done though.

reverse agumentation reflex program. this game is going to be a big pile of blob and finger gu to bad, but, im gald its the end of this series.

I think what would make this game actually good is:

Reversals should be infinit, Kinda like DOA how u can reverse almost anything anyone throws at you as many times as you want. I mean if they want to make this game more realistic then people would be reversing stuff all up over the place and i think reversals make the battling a lot more challenging, they should have regular reversals and throw reversals.

They should bring back impaling, although many think impaling is dumb and cheap I think it is realistic, If I had a weapon fighting someone and they always did distance attacks you best believe I will imaple them with something, but maybe instead of being able to block and imaple you can reverse it and stab them with it instead, and m,aybe imapling won't take that much blood away and maybe they could have the characters imaple them and then pull the weapons back out so they can still use them.

I think they should bring back the scaring of the face, because in MKDA it cracked me up seeing how abused my character was after the end of the games

The enviroments need to be improved and easy to the eyes MKD enviroments looked UGLY and ugh trash! MK IMO has one of the worst enviromental graphics.

I think they should get rid of the random weapons in each stage because it just wastes times and how would their be a random weapon in the middle of a stage like that. It would be kool if maybe there was some sort of weapon hanging on a wall that u can pull off and us..that would be pretty kewl

well those are just a few things IMO that would make the game better