guys i agree with all u are saying, but if they do alllllllllll of that, hell just call it tekken, cause thats what it will become. this fighing engine can work, if they so call upgrade frame count, and add lil bits and pieces.. like get up attacks, hell half the time after u get knocked down u cant even get a uppercut of as a counter, and that alwasy been mk, and throws deff need to be blockable again, if they stay with the 50/50 crap.. and i no this is a minor detail, but i want a damn invisible select square back, and the 2 fighting style thing , great idea, even thou a prob is see with that is, if u hav so many combos in one style hi and lows, u will never be able to no whats comming to block, least now, u no when there in a certain stance how to block, like nightwolf, and ashra, and jinko.

Wrong. For far too many reasons I care to explain.

Suggestions are always welcomed, but I don't think this thread is really for you at the moment.
What you should do though, is read this thread. It will help you understand what all 3D fighters should and should not have, and really give you a bit more of a clear understanding. You should share your ideas with us after reading it.

yes but mk has had its own style since 1, now u pretty much just wanna copy the others. thats like saying sf should had 10 hit dial combos. how about they hav made 2 games now, just fix the broken stuff. make the sidestepping work, and not just for projectiles. throw blockable again. some type of of get up attack. and a hell lot more gametesting... if u turn it into a tekken, its no mk anymore... least this game still somewhat plays like a mk game.

How should an MK game play? What's the "feel" of MK gameplay wise? What's being suggested in this thread is used by all fighters not just Tekken. It's like how two different cars must have an engine, a steering wheel, and brakes to function properly but at the same time "feel" and handle differently during the drive. Tekken, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, and every other quality fighter uses these standards but wraps it around with it's own feel. That's why none of them play the same. MK's personality is not in danger of being lost.

Currently it doesn't play like a mk game at all not even somewhat. MK games have not always had their own style in terms of gameplay. The style comes from the gimmicks of blood and fatalities. The actual fighting engine was never really all that special. The concept of MK was to make a simplistic fighter that was balanced by being generic. MK 1 almost all basic attacks are identical. Cage had a slightly better uppercut than the rest of the cast but other than that it was the same other than specials. MK 2 was a little bit different in the moves they had more pronounced differences in properties but the generic aspect was still there. MK 3 with the addition of the run button changed the focus from specials to regular attacks. This one however had differing priorities in some cases for the normals like sonya's sweep was overall better than the rest of the cast and human smokes hk,hp launcher had more priority than any move in the game including ermac's identical hk,hp dial a combo. The only thing generic about the new mk's is that everybody has 3 styles from there it's totally different it doesn't feel like mk or play like a mk. Even when you go back to the previous games it's obvious they took their ideas from street fighter. MK uses the 2 in 1 that is a staple of SF games mk increasingly became more focused on normal moves over special moves much like the SF games.

The additions people are talking about for the most part are staples of the 3d game world. You can say that adding these things will make this tekken but I can point out that virtua fighter has these things as well and well virtua fighter is not tekken it doesn't play like tekken and it doesn't feel like tekken. Tekken, VF, DOA, SC all share aspects but all feel, look and play totally different.

Thing about weapons/styles:

Instead of universal weapons, what about a few characters that mix up weapon attacks with punches/kicks, kind of like Yoshimitsu? This could eliminate some of the unnecessary weapon stances from the previous games.

As far as styles go, I like switching, but I wish it wasn't generic for everyone. Something like changing at the end of a combo, or after a special move might be better.

My main concerns and complaints are unblockable throws, not using a well planned and thought out reversal/parry system, and the lack of custom combos. The problem, in my eyes, is that Boon & Co. are trying to make 2-D tacticts survive in a 3-D realm. Having 2-3 useful combos per character may of been acceptable back in MK3, but most gamers expect something a little more now-a-days.

The fact that every character only has one throw situation, ad it's unblockable, is also annoying. At the very least I would like to have a throw that grabs a crouching opponent. Countering (or "blocking", if you will) a throw should have a certain command, depending on what throw your opponent is performing, and it should have a small window of oppurtunity to be performed.

The breaker system is just crap. Especially when you consider the characters that have infinite string combos. Having 3 breakers per match, and the ability to break a combo at any time, regardless of positioning and frame disadvantages, all needs to be removed. We also need proper testing to ensure that infinite string combos no longer exist. The answer to this complaint was somehting along the lines of "Infinite combos are always going to be found". Yeah, maybe back in 1994. I can't recall any other big name title on this generation of consoles that has completely uncounterable infinite strings.

I'll have to comment a bit more later on, gotta run to the bank

Yeah it's like characters on VF with multiple stances and styles there are a few ways to get into them and not everybody has anything but the basic stance or like tekken Lei in particular can get into his stances off numerous moves or just straight going into them. Like I said before I just don't think they need to make the whole concept generic like 3 styles for everybody 2 h2h and 1 weapon. Like you mention with yoshi not everybody needs a weapon or 3 styles or even 2 styles. If they have multiple styles having multiple ways to get into them would be a lot better. Right now you have a style branch of just a switch but you can't move into weapon stance from first stance without going to 2nd stance first.




Yeah well you can find infinites or 100% combo's in titles these days though they are not the end all be all of the game. MVC2 has infinites but the damage scaling is so bad that most of the time you won't see a full infinite done and you also have plenty of options to prevent getting hit with one. Tekken 5 has a couple 100% combos that have been found but so far they are to so situational you could play for years and never see one pulled off in match play. Roger jr has one that requires you to be spaced perfect get a counterhit f1,2,1,2 then they have to be spaced near to the wall hit that wall and be at a 45 degree angle with another wall for the 100% to work. In deception you just have to get hit by a throw anywhere and it can be game over if you are lucky you can only get hit in the corner. Infinites don't make a game bad alone it's other things that contribute now naturally I don't want to see any practical infinites or 100% combo's on any game MK included. Hell I really don't like the thought of practical combos over 50% if it's one of those like the roger combo that you can deal a ton of damage on thats one thing but I don't like how most characters on tekken 5 can take you to the wall and deal over 50% from most anywhere on the screen even if I do take advantage of that myself.

With people as inventive in the fighting game community as they are now you will probably find something pretty amazing but when it's something obvious like throw,d1,throw or even throw throw throw lol well thats just wrong.

Your comments wont change the out come of the game .... just be happy its coming out

If it won't improve, I'd rather it didn't.

Very well said Doctor Cube, and your sig is frigtening.

I don't know about you guys, but I think if we combined 90% of what in this topic ALREADY into one game we'd have the best GAMEPLAY MK ever created.

Anyway, I don't think movement shoulld be THAT advanced for this upcoming game. I think a solid and USEFUL back dash and forward dash is the way to go, along wiht unique character sets(like i suggested on page 1), frame advantage, move properties, throw escapes, throw mix ups, GOOD reversals and parries, special moves with properties(check my topic on page 2, will be updated today) and limiting styles just to one hand to hand and one weapon. Also, make sure every character is well tuned, unique enough to themself(and their category) and balanced enough to compete.

If our comments don't affect the game well then that just shows the kind of company midway is. Virtua fighter 3 came out it made a lot of changes that were disliked by the VF community. The VF community commented and things changed. Street fighter 3 originally was not going to have ken or ryu in it and was going away from shotos. The community complained about no ryu/ken and it was changed. Tekken 4 came out lots of changes to the engine it wasn't received well. The community complained and guess what namco changed it and released tekken 5.

The point is other companies that have had more success in the fighting game department than midway do listen to fan's suggestions about flaws in the gameplay. Your comment doesn't change anything it's blatant trolling in this topic. Contribute or go away.

Thanks.

Good ideas guys.. How about another suggestion??? How about F'n moves that don't bounce the guy off the ground and into the air for 3 hits?!!!!!!!!!!! They went completely overboard with them in Deception!

I dont have a problem with bounce launchers, i mean who cares as long as they do their purpose which is to be a mid hitting, juggles starter that has the potential to lead to over 30 damage.

Now, something that I think needs to be back...THE AGRESSOR FROM MKT TRILOGY! AWWW MAN THAT SHIT KICKED ASS!

I loveeeed how it added extra damage to camera and had that sweet matrix slow motion(though it wasnt intentional it was still cool) blur trail shit. I think for MK7 it should not only add damage on, but make everything a counter hit and give moves even more properties. Along with the blur effect, however, I think it would be cool to give each character their own kind of effect. Scorpion could have his body engulfed in a firey aura, Sub-Zero's arms could become surrounded with spikey ice and have a icey trail and aura. Raiden would be surrounded a massive amount of electricity(similar to Super Saiyan 2 for all my Dragon Ball Z fans out there). Johnny Cage could put his shades on and be surrounded by sparkly lights(almost like cameras flashing) as an ode to his hollywood roots. Jax's muscle could become even bigger. Bo Rai Cho could have a trail of fart coming out of his rear end,etc. The possibilities are endless. The agressor would be activated by pressing all four main buttons, and would last for 15 seconds.

Aggressor mode eh? Would you want it to be activated in the same way it was in MKT?

Btw, I still seemed to have not gotten any feedback on those ground ideas.

The one thing about the aggressor I didn't like was that it activated right after the meter filled up. It needs to be player controlled.

Cheap shots are borderline lame especially when you are down to your last health count. It should be base on realism:
The first one demonstrates how it should be.
The second one demonstrates how it is in MK:DA & MK:D.

ANIMATION
Lots of stuff has already been covered, but I feel that we need to talk about animation in and by itself. Frame advantage and all is great, but if it comes out at the rate of MKDA and MKD, it would prove to be a stupid. Animation in MK needs to be improved. In a lot of cases, it's the lows and the mids that are the problem. Some lows are just too fast to react, and while this is fine to have for some lows, these lows in general shouldn't have the damage/properties that they have now. Better animation is everything, it'll stop the 50/50 and create a need for setups, especially in terms of throw and low execution.

STANCES
Like 1TruKing said about stances (and I don't want to reiterate them even though I'm going to), there really is no need to universally give an X number of stances to every character and there is no reason to view stances as different fighting styles. This allows MK to have more technical characters like Verse said and to elaborate on different fighting styles as many many fighting styles have more than one stance.

What Crow said about practicality of stances, this is one major flaw of MK. Stances only generally have 20 moves, of those 20 moves, 5 are generally useful. This is a huge problem, something MK must really address. Breaking down stances not only creates more variety, but it allows MK to have more ungeneric moves. So you could have slower/higher reward moves instead of mirroring jabs, sweeps, etc. simply because stances cannot operate without them.

DEFENSIVE STANCES
One thing I would really like to see is stance giving defensive advantages. Such as when Lei Fei from Virtua Fighter is on one foot, he can catch high and mid punches automatically and counter it with damage. He has only a few moves from this though. Or When Aoi enters her Yin Yang stance, she can catch any mid or high for frame advantage, but has no moves besides a sidestep.

Even though i love the fight system to bits, theres always room for improvement.

Since a lot has been covered, i'm going to chat about the weapons system.

The weapons system needs to be slightly more fluid and realistic, for example, you cant block a sword blow with your arms, without them being loped off. The weapons themselves should flow a lot more freely. Instead of being rigid, they should move gracefully. Also there are over 200 known weapons in the world so please give a bit more variation.

There could be cool weapon grapple moves, like two people attack the same time with a sword and the fastest player (after a few moments of strength testing) wins the move.

STRINGS INSTEAD OF CHAINS
Strings instead of chains as well. Jabs should not gurantee a 25%-30% ground chain. There should be strings for mixups. Of course shorter strings should be fully guranteed (given that they don't launch or have low mixups) while other strings or permutations of the same strings with different mixups, but have a little delay in them for disturbing/disrupting/correctly blocking. Counterhit properties of course will change some strings to be guranteed on first or second hit, etc.

Oh yeah, this isn't specifically gameplay related I suppose, but have the option to turn off fatalities, seeing people constantly suicide or do fatalities just slow up the action too much.

My biggest beef with the last two games is the lack of an eight-way run system. Come On! Soul Calibur did it over 5 years ago!!! And so far no one has come close to such natural 3-D movement in a fighter!! I need to be able to Run in to Kick some A$$!!!

Secondly with all these different characters available, I am so sick of fighting against the same character in arcade mode!! If i pick Sub Zero. Please omit Sub Zero from the possible roster of fights!! Why fight yourself?

Thirdly: As far as Death Traps go: i would love the option to turn them on,off or FINAL ROUND ONLY!!

lastly; I want all the fighting styles to be somewhat equal in number of: Knockdowns, Launchers, Sweeps, and Stuns!!!( My Poor Buddy Havik Has no Launchers in his first two stances?!?!)

And please,please,please, NO Liu Kang, No Babalities, No Friendships, or Freakin' Animalities!!!

8 way run eh? Hmmm...if that were to be put in, then how about a button in which you have to hold in order to do things like jump, somersault, and crouch?

Regarding the fighting styles, they really need to step it up in many ways.

For example, I liked the MKDA version of Sub-Zero's Dragon style, but it needs to have so much more to it. Imagine Sub-Zero using his fingers as claws and using them to doing a pressure point strike to the opponent thus affecting them in things like speed or power or something.

Btw, can you explain to me about strings and chains? I know it may sound kinda stupid of me to ask, but I just need some clarification that's all. It's just that I never fully got a good understanding of them.

The dial-a-combo system that MK uses is what most would consider a chain. If the first attack hits all attacks in the chain hit. A string is what you find most often in tekken and vf. It's a series of attacks much like a chain except it's not all guaranteed. There usually are changeup points in the strings to make them useful. They are also designed with some frame advantage in mind so that you can create your own "custom strings". That basicly means you string together a bunch of attacks that normally are not part of a string but it's usually a poke pattern. Major examples of this would have been nina from tekken 3. d4,1,d/f1,2,d4,1,d1,n4 thats an example of a series of different minor strings that are linked to cause pressure. Nina can change that up quite a bit say do d4,1,d/f,d/f1 for a throw. Tekken and vf don't use a lot of chains and it's rare to find a chain be overpowered. Some strings do become chains on counterhit such as steve 1,2,1,2 or roger jr. f1,2,1,2,1 all hits connect if the first is a counterhit. That add's quite a bit of strategy since mk doesn't have move properties or real counterhits.

On the subject of blocking out character vs character matches thats not even fair and never has been. If I am a scorpion specialist and you are too then the first one who makes it to scorpion wins the game. It also removes any hopes of tournament play because the best player might not win due to being forced to pick second and not being able to play his/her main character.

Well I have a question.

Suppose we have different styles for each character. MKDA -MKD wise. Three stances, one of them is a weapon stance -err style.

What happens when someone implements styles like kenjutsu or should I say what even more confusing adaptation wise, a claymore.

MKD had some of the moves resembling very much the actual weapon style, but:

our subject will be the claymore (or an altogether same weight weapon, the nodachi sword). When you are in a fight, you have to prefeine what stance you use whan wielding larger weapons. The start is like a scissor-paper-stone game. You have a stance for your weapon, usually a Right Tail, or a Right Hanger (theese are called guards-stances for defense too) at least from my personal experience.

Now what happens when someone attacks you with a style attack, what cannot be possibly countered by the current stance? (note that theese guarsd are often mentioned together with protective armor to suck up the unstopped blows) The opponent gets a free hit attack, no matter what you do, becouse a hand-to-hand style is faster (considering this is a game) and has adwantages becouse of the engine.

How would you stop this? An answer would be to allow slides. Slide the attack of when the opponent isn't using a weapon, but you are. Allow the fist or leg attack to slie off from your weapon, or allow a free hit becouse weapon stances are risky.

**

Another thing that bugs me was the behavior of weapons in MKDA and MKD. There are weapons that simply cannot stand a chance against some of the others when they reach contact. A katana may be faster, but a heavy broad sword or an european two handed sword can break it when they collide on the wrong point. Something should be done about this:

When the opponent is using the lesser weapon for a hard attack, the larger uperior should have the ability to render it unusable. in practice, a heavy blade is better than a lighter and faster weapon, becouse of the stability it provides. Sure, katanas are powerfull weapons, but they are no match to a claymore, or a swiss unitbreaker when they make contact simply becouse of their weight and striking power.

Historical note: the katanas power comes from swings, but consider what happens when someone gives that swing to a heavy sword. The most popular disbelief is that the medieval european swords were slow. Incorrect. They were just as fast as katanas, simply becouse the same swing was added to their striking power (again, their weight gives the additional damage), but the pause between strikes are significantly longer (calculated 0,5 secs in full plate armor).

And there is of course, the weapons the kombatants use. Why in the hell does a ninja sword look like a katana in MKD and MKDA?? The shinobi or ninja-to was straighter than average japanese blades to strenghten the thrusting attacks.

Something should be used for weapon grapples. Lius and Cages nunchaku can do quite effective weapon disarmings. Those would be good to see. Oh and something should be done about the weapon usage, becouse you can simply swap the weapons instantly from style to style.
You can pul out your sais quickly enough, but how in the hell you get your dan tien dao out that fast? larger weapon, more damage, but in the meantime, have the time to draw it.

OK, I'm leaving the "how to do the controlls for this idea" to you. theese are suggestions you might take into considerations.

PS: weapons may break during combat. Depending on what weapons go against each other.