What makes d/b+1 any more complicated than u/b+1? d/b+1, u/b+1, 4, u+3, d+2, etc. are all exactly the same. It's still a single motion just that the direction is different. Making use of all 8 directions and circular motions is a good thing because it makes it intuitive. A sweep should not be f+3 and a launcher should not be b+4. Right now, the moves in MK are randomly assigned to buttons because there aren't enough directional commands in use.

On another note, what does everyone think about crumples, stuns, and staggers? Since MK makes use of numerous special moves, assuming these properties are applied to them, should the normal moves be toned down when it comes to the special properties to give some uniqueness and particular usefulness to the specials or should it go all out and have normals with the same properties that specials would have? I get the feeling that no matter how good the specials are made to be, if there is a normal that has the same effect, say crumple, the normal will be intrinsically better than the special and so specials will become useless in high level play.

This is an old idea I posted in the old gameplay thread awhile back:

I think reversals should be over the top in MK style:

*Scorpion tries to punch Sub-Zero*

*Sub-Zero reverses it by freezing his arm and holding it*

After that you should be able to decide whether you want to break the reversal,Throw your opponet,combo,or fully freeze him and then get a free hit.

It would fit perfectly with the MKDA reversal system.There should be different reversals too.High,mid,and low reversals ETC.Depending on how and where your opponet tries to hit you.

Stuff like d/b+1 aren't hard lol. I hope they add more of that. It only gets messy if you're trying to play on pad and need to hit 1+3+4 because most people use their thumbs and it's easy to whiff buttons like that. I doubt MK would add stuff like that though since Boon himself said he likes/wants MK controls to be simple. Which is fine in my book.

I concur with wanting MK7 being an all out reversal/counter fest.

Well, I personally love using the D-pad when playing fighting games and well, I think the MK controls being simple can be a good thing as long as they have a good feeling to them and are very intuitive, know what I mean? I think MK could have those nice, simple controls and such but have depth within it.

Reversals, stuns, crumples, etc. would be nice to have. Good, balanced properties for the special moves is greatly needed.

MK7 needs to enable running (similar to that of MK3) or at least better dash reflexes than that of MKD. The characters also need mutliple grapples & throws from multiple angles (notice how in MKDA & MKD the characters are always facing one another, even if one's to jump over the other). Better character personalities. Let's face it. The characters in the MK series come off as one-dimensional mainly due to the simple fact that they don't have their own spoken dialogue lines in battle (some characters even share the same voices-overs) give each character their own unique in-game dialogue. Finally, implement better online capabilities. There should be an online option to which enables players to adjust the time & or # of rounds per match.

Also, the ranking system should be more divine, hence not drop so drastically at the sight of a loss. If so, make it so that the ranking system is based off of that as of a ladder system (despite your loses, your rank remains the same as long as you don't drop inbetween a match)

Well, what I don't like about the ingame voice overs in other fighting games is that to me, they don't make the ambience that great. I'd say that so far, Tekken 5 has the best ingame voiceovers except for people like Lee, Craig, Asuka, and some others.

you should be able to roll or backdash further cos some blows have deceptively long range.

Another aspect to which should be implemented in MK7 are better stage layouts. The stages in both MKDA & MKD have round proportions, thus making it a hassle to chain a combo on an opponent in a corner or even circling around them for that matter (notice how in practice mode once you have an opponent trapped within a corner, you cannot complete long-branched/ranged combos or maneuver around the character?). The stage proportions need to be brushed up dramatically.

Also, just a nice addition (nothing manditory) but "custom costumes" would be a nice feature, given that your characters have limited normal ones.

I actually like the stages in both DA and Deception. Yeah, DA's and some of Deception's stages were just fancied up circles but a stage is just that, a stage. It really doesn't have to be anything more than something nice to look at. The problem with nailing someone into a wall is more an issue with the dial-a-combo system itself. Dial-a-combos have two main problems. They take the sense of freedom out of the game and they put the engine in a bind because if something glitches up then there's no way around it. Let's say I do a mid and chain a low into that and for whatever reason let's say it doesn't work well against a wall. That's fine because I can realize that and do other things. Each move and combo operates independently of each other. When the foundation of the game is dial-a-combos, though, and they don't work against a wall properly, you then have a big problem. Look at Tekken 5. It doesn't have wall techs so when you hit one you're screwed. Then you have the infinite stages too. Despite the stages being so different from each other in that sense, the game really doesn't suffer. I play Kazuya and when someone hits a wall I love nailing them with his Soul Thrust and follow with his Demon Stomp but I don't freak out if I end up playing on Final Stage 2 or something where I don't have a wall to do that against. If the dial-a-combos are removed I don't think that problem will persist.

Perhaps I should reiterate better (I don't believe I was precise enough). I don't mean the stages themselves should be altered, but yet their layouts. Have you notice that it's virtually impossible to complete the most basic combos when having an opponent trapped within a corner? This is all due to stage layouts.

Lets take a game such as VF4 where the stages aren't layered circular, it's much easier to maneuver & combo around an opponent. The stages themselves in both MKDA & MKD are wonderful, just their layouts need some work. If you go into either MKDA's or MKD's practice modes, you'll notice that your character WON'T complete a combo when having an opponent trapped within a corner. Regardless of it being a dial-a -combo or not, it still won't connect.

Ah, I see. Tao Feng had a similar stage layout problem. The stages sometimes had off shaped areas where the camera would get stuck or have to switch places randomly to keep the players centered. It often resulted in a whiffed combo opportunity or a missed block. It's not exactly the same situation but still deals with stage layouts. Since the stages in MK are so big and sometimes off shape, the play testers really need to explore every corner and wall to make sure there aren't any problems.

Alright, here we go.

What MKD did right, or steps in the right direction:
A breaker system of SOME type. It needs work. Especially throw reversals.

Stages: stage fatalities, multi tiered, and interactive stages were welcome additions. Multi tiered stages need to be different..usually it felt like you were falling into an identical area. Interactivity needs to increase..as far as wall jumps, etc go.

The uppercut: I know not many people use this, but come on, it's fun to see it back

The air juggle game seemed improved, but still a little stale.

What I really want:
Forward dashes or runs.

reversals and throw escapes

The ability to break an opponents weapon, or steal it.
Perhaps in a grapple move..if the move is not reversed or escaped, the opponent can steal that fighter's weapon.

I would also like to see the 3 style system return, BUT...I would like to see the styles so diverse and different from eachother play-wise that it seems you are switching characters. One way to accomplish this is to take what the guy said about character designs and apply them to styles..for instance, one style will be offensive, the next style will be defensive or technical, and then a weapon style. If that could be worked out, I think it would be a wonderful addition, but albeit a lot of work.

Arial combat to return: I want my fighters to flip forward instead of that little hopskotch thing they do when they jump forward now. That may sound like aesthetics right now, I realize that. But gameplay wise, I don't think jumping forward should be that clumsy. It is very difficult to jump kick anymore..I would love to see that changed, if for anything to finish off air combos, or a high powerful strike...or at least see the jump combos return.

More fludity: Less "I threw a punch, now I am going to sit here for five minutes while I remember what the crap I was doing".

Keep the Dial a Combos, but also institute more fluidity and freedom in air juggles. Limit the importance dial a combos have in the game, dont eliminate them altogether. The thing I like about the dial a combos is that it discourages button mashing. They also helped Joe Shmoe with No Creativity be able to pick up and play and do simple combos.

Dangit..I had a ton to add but can't seem to think at 2 AM ...maybe I will post later.

Oh yeah! One other thing I want.

Playtesting.

Bo's stick? Infinites? All found within days of the games release? Come on guys...you really could have done better than that.

i don't think dial-a-combo is a very good system.
Dial-A-Combo was invented with Mortal Kombat 3. Midway was largely unable to come up with a deep and competitive fighting engine, so Dial-A-Combo is what the game implemented. The move list is composed of largely interchangeable strikes that have no differentiating features other than appearance. Arbitrarily assigning specific button presses to those interchangeable strikes. The player is totally unable to branch these "combos" from one to another. The opponent is unable to defend against the combo once it has started. i got this off an FAQ by aaxe who explained it. the thread on the mkd forum is scarily similar to this one other than the fact that bleed and i are the only visitors daily.

I almost forgot about the character recovery time. The character recovery time in MKD was horrendous. The recovery speed in MK7 should be sped up a notch.

and a lot of games use non dial a combo system and they are not so button mashy. i respect your opinion but i don't really like dial-a-combo

whoa whoa whoa there...I did NOT say implament the dial a combo system completely. I merely said put in one or two combos like that, not utilize the whole system all over again. One or two dial a combos, maybe small 3 or 4 hit combos the average joe can pull off, the rest a free flowing system.

you didn't say that you didn't want dial-a-combo to be implemented all together either so i misunderstood what you said.

I don't like the idea of what's being called the 'dail a combo', either.
Again, chains remove a lot of thinking - you just type in your little code and it removes a certain amount of health from the opponent. Boring, and skilless.

Strings are a much better way to go, and you don't risk taking all that guaranteed damage off a simple jab.
This also gets rid of the flawed breaker system as well.

I think the only time there should ever be chains is when you use a string after a stun, and even then the damage shouldn't be that high - losing 30% is crazy.

Something else needed is tech rolls, and a way to avoid getting 'planted'. Maybe a just frame tap of blk or b as you hit the ground or something, because that's a really tricky position to be in.
I guess in a way that kind of just falls under the category of 'wake up system'.

A good way to use dial combos would be as part of a throw.

Example throw.

Press 1+3 to throw = The throw animation would be something like Law Chan’s b, df+Throw in VF4E. He does a right punch to the stomach, left uppercut palm, then a knock down punch to the stomach again.

The dial combo could be used to add variations to a throw like that.

Variation examples using Law Chan's throw.

1) Blk+p = Gut punch = causes a gut collapse = you get enough frame advantage for a strong follow up attack. Also able to do special low juggles that can only be done off a gut collapse.

2) Blk+p, p = Gut punch, left uppercut palm = causes a DOA3 style stun. You can follow up with anything. Some attacks will launch you, others will make you fall or stumble back during the stun.

3) Blk+p, p, p = Gut punch, left uppercut palm, knock down punch to gut = Causes a knock down or wall stun if close to a wall. = Opens up for Ground combos or Wall combos.

4) Blk+p,p,p~super move = The last punch can cancel in to a super move or super combo = like a KI2 combo ender. Causes extra damage

5) Blk+p, p, b,d+Blk+p = Gut punch, uppercut palm, b,d+Blk+p trip throw.
Leaves the opponent back turned and open to a quick attack as they get back up and you switch places with them.

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That could also work with Whoarang's side throw where he does 5 kicks.


The idea is to have a quick command for a combo type throw then have the normal code type commands for a slow chain like King's chain throws.


Dial combos are OK for weak poke damage. Like Liu Kant's kick combo in MK3 could still be in, be a dial combo just not do too much damage.

Example of a dial combo in Tekken= Feng Wei 1,2,2 Kazuya 1,1,2

Dial combos are OK for weak poke damage. Like Liu Kant's kick combo in MK3 could still be in, be a dial combo just not do too much damage.

Example of a dial combo in Tekken= Feng Wei 1,2,2 Kazuya 1,1,2
^
That's what I was trying to say. Small damage, small dial a combos might be alright..but strings would be the majority.

What if they use the L3 button on the Joy stick for extra moves.


Possible uses Can be different for different fighters.

L3 could be a style change button. Using a 5 style character like Lei Fei or Lei Wulong.

Pressing L3 could be a way for him to go in to all the different stances instantly and very easily.

Using Lei Wulong

L3 = Snake

L3/up = Crain

L3/forward = dragon

L3/down = panther

L3/back = Tiger

Pressing block or pressing the same style again will cancel and put you in the normal fighting stance.

You can switch from one style to any other instantly.

You can throw a basic attack for any style while switching to it if you tap the L3 style change + any attack button.

Like you can in MKD


The L3 could also be used for extra stances. Like the extra stances in Soul calibur2, Tao Feng, and Tekken 5.


It could be used as an extra Joy stick =
f+ 1 = left jab
L3-f+1 = left straight elbow


This could be used to change the entire button lay out and still have the ability to do a ton of attacks.

so you could have BLK, Punch, Kick
Then use L3 to substitute for the missing second punch and kick buttons that are in MKD.

Other ways to do it is to just tap or hold buttons for different attacks.

use side step attacks like in Soul calibur, or to tap attack then a d. pad direction to change the attack before it comes out =

f+punch = step jab
f, punch = step hook to ribs
punch,f = back fist
L3-f+punch = straight elbow


The L3 could also be used for dodging and rolling or even running like a free run.

Those ideas are great Bleed. I particularly like the idea of using a stick as the command for going into a different stance. That would make more moves more accessible and eliminate having to cycle through your stance to get to the one you want.

The more I think about it, the more I think the stick(s) should be used for something. There's just so much they could do, and seeing as how MK is a console exclusive now, I don't see a problem. I know there's already too many buttons, but I think some of them could be done away with if the sticks were put to good use.

The L3 would work with regular controllers, but it wouldn't with Arcade sticks.


Maybe there could be an extra button that could substitute for the L3, like press the X button instead if you are using an Arcade stick. I think X would work the best because it's the closest to the other attack buttons.


If the game had 1 main hand style and 1 main weapon style, the button lay out could be like this.

L1 = Style change

R1 or Square (1) = Block

Triangle (2) = Punch

Circle (4) = Kick

L2 = pick up stage weapon

X or L3 = extra directions on the pad or stick

R2 could be a tag Button

I see MK as more DOA ish, like when you kick someone, they should fly far like in the 2D MK's and The DOA games.

Fighting should be fast and smooth = Keep some of the strings, but have it work like in DOA where you have to be stunned for them to be less breakable NOT unbreakable. ( The critical status )

DOA and MKD style multi tired stages

Game play should be better designed like in Tekken or VF. Still though, it needs to be easy for beginners and deep enough for experts. So just throw in a few 2-4 attack 1 button combos to make the casual gamers feel like they can do something.

Have Tekken5 style juggles along with the VF4 low juggles and old style MK air combos = jump kick teleport punch, spear.....

Maybe even some MK4 style combos. = jump in punch combo starter like in DOA and street fighter, 3hit pop up combo (blockable = last hit can be a launcher or a low attack), dash forward, jab, jump kick, teleport punch, spear, combo...

There could be a combo meter to limit overly powerful juggles. Or just lower long juggle fighters like Scorpion's strength so they have to rely on long juggles to do max damage.

Have 1 empty hand style and 1 weapon style. Like a mix of Tekken / DOA and SC2.

The special moves should take a larger part in the game like in KI2 and the Old MK's