Character
In the next mk, have the focus more on characters themselves.
for example sub/scorp, are all rounders, with a nice blend of speed strength and endurance.
Jax and raiden are abviously powerful, but jax may lag in speed...
kung lao/shang tsung are not as powerful as other characters, but are fast. there defensive option should the best,,as they should be able to counter almost anything.
More of character traits should come into play...e.g, if someone hits you in the face with metal arm, thats gonna daze you. so why not allow that to happen in the next mk...
dazing effects would go nice too.....after a healthy beating, our character begins to move weaker and slower and also his attacks dont do as much damage as it would in the start of the match.

Styles
Each character needs to be limited, to one unarmed style and one armed style....the reason for this is to simply focus on the characters themselves and having decent defensive options.
Aikido and Judo are throwing arts, so why have attacks for them?
Jujitsu is based purely on joint locking, why not just have joint locking in jujitsu.
The attacks are spot on in the styles of MKDA, but their not 100% true to the nature of the styles themselves.
Wing chun is one of the most devastating martial arts in real life....why does mavado suck so bad that he is low tier then?
Fights have four ranges:

• Kicking (longest)
  
• Punching
  
• Trapping (head, knees, elbows)
  
• Grappling (shortest)
  

The best thing for the mk team to do is to have set attributes for each style for example something like hapkido would have:
Kicking = 4
Punching = 4
Trapping = 3
Grappling = 4


Something like Tae kwon Do would have:
Kicking = 5
Punching = 3
Trapping = 1
Grappling = 1

Muay Thai:
Kicking = 4
Punching = 4
Trapping = 5
Grappling = 1

Judo:
Kicking = 1
Punching = 1
Trapping = 3
Grappling = 5

Boxing:
Kicking = 1
Punching = 5
Trapping = 1
Grappling = 1

Wing chun:
Kicking = 3
Punching = 4
Trapping = 5
Grappling = 2

so on and so forth, using those as examples, midway team can then stress test each style against the other to design in which defensive options can be created against both styles.

Another thing that would be cool regarding characters in general is to use their specialties...

Scorpion
Example, Scorpion can use his harpoon as a weapon instead of a ninja sword....hear me out....
he could spin and slash and also, hold the butt of the spear and use it as dagger, which is where his combos come into play.
Also he's a spectre? Like i posted in another thread....why not make the most of it....a brilliant example of this:
Raiden is using a jujitsu lock (e.g. an armbar) on Scorpion, but scorpion, being half ghost, his arm turns into ghost-like mass and he gets out of the lock.
Or Jax hits Scorpion with a punch using his metal arms....but half the pain is automatically absorbed due to the fact Scorpion is half ghost....so what hurts to most people, only hurts half as much as it would for scorpion....hey he's a spectre...so use it!

Sub-Zero
His reversals should be the best in the game, whatever style he gets, he is the ice master.
So why the hell not use it?
Picture this:
Subzero cathces his opponents fist in mid attack....whilst holding the fist he uses his ice power to stun them by freezing the fist (at that point we see the opponent in pain by shaking his arm to shake away the pain) This where sub can begins his attacks....same goes for kicks and feet.

Blaze
An elemental? uses fire a great deal?
Why not use the same strategy as sub zero, but instead of freezing opponents limbs, he burns them.

Raiden
God of thunder? yea right! in most games he is underated and often neglected for more other favourite characters.
This guy should be the master of counters.
Giving him something like aikido and as someone comes to punch him, after he counters using the circular movements of aikido, you see raiden giving his opponents electric shocks as he throws his opponents...its as if his every touch is electrocuting...he is god of thunder after all!

Jax
Jax should most damaging character if he returns in the next mk. His hits should cause the most damage out of most characters, and he should be able to take a great deal of damage too...to balance him out however, his combos should be minimum.....IMO he's the zangief of the mk series....with abitlity to destroy half the life of his opponents with a single move....gotcha?

Kung Lao & Cage
Most likely to return as the heroes of the next mk...they should be the most balanced characters in the game...a good range of attacks/counters/reversals/and special moves...is what a hero needs, and imo, kung lao and cage should have all these in the next mk.
They way these two are different will be based on there styles....like kung lao the kung fu master and cage the karate master etc....just like old school martial art movies


An idea i thought of whilst fighting.....
Blocking

There are two ways i think it could be implemented...

• Timing method
  Blocking should be timing based. You'll only be able to defend around the time of an attack coming in. This method will destroy those people who love to block and force to think about other tactics. Depending on a persons reactions, he will be able to defend every attack....through to no attack.
  
• Meter method
  A small meter below your characters health bar, decreases the longer you hold the block button...eventually once the meter has decreased 100%, we are now no longer be able to block....there is exception to this.
  Should your opponent decide to use a weapon style, the meter stays full as weapon styles would cause the most damage and the mere fact, any person or being, would do whatever is necessary to not be hurt with a weapon...so characters would have to think about actual gameplay to beat enemies. This again gets over the people who seem to enjoy holding the block button etc
  

Now orignally i thought about using one or the other idea for blocking, but as i was writing this, why not have both ideas implemented?
Theres 2 ways it could work.
One way would be style dependent.
giving wing chun the meter method would be devasting, so to tone it down give it the timing method, and styles that uses only basic parries, could use the meter method.....
The other way is to allow us the player, to choose which defensive style of playing we'd rather use

Just some ideas

Loving the ideas Nindz, I think Raiden was never taking seriously. I think his throws should have more of a serious,god-like tone to them. I also believe his throws should have the most effects to them..like for example.

Anarchy - Raiden punches the puny mortal in the stomach really quickly. This causes them to fall to their knees. Raiden then puts one hand on the opponent's forehead and all of sudden Raiden's body becomes electric(like it does in the previous MKs). Within a second of two Raiden then begins to drain electrical energy into the opponent's body through their forehead.

The throw would have 3 effects.

1. If Raiden has a full bar of health the throw would take away half of the opponent's lifebar and a quarter of your life bar. Raiden's agressor bar is now full.

2. If Raiden has less than half of his bar left this throw does that amount of damage to the opponent.

3. If neither situation 1 or 2 takes place then this throw counts as a counter hit. After the shock the opponent would crumple down even more. This would count as a counter hit so they cannot block, giving you free damage.

Of course this would probably be Raiden's best throw and should have an extremely difficult command and a small escape window.

I also agree with your character stuff Nindz. The characters were FAR to similair statistically in MKDA. Everyone should be diverse and play totally different EXCEPT for the basics such as frame advantage, having jabs, throws, low/mid/high attacks and stuff like that.

Nindz, I like most of your ideas, except the part about each character having only one unarmed style. I think 2 per character like in MKDA is better. One per character IMO hurts characterization; in most fighting games where each character has one style, the character is likely to be based around that style. However, MK doesn't work like that. Characters are much deeper than just a single style; they should have two styles that fit them, not one that defines them.

Well nindz, I think your ideas are cool but I do have a few things to add.

I like the stats thing with punches, kicks, trapping, and grappling, but what about a fighting style like Pi Gua Zhang which doesn't really focus on punches or kicks but more of chops and palm strikes?

And what about a defensive style such as Taijitsu which incorporates lots of techniques? Wouldn't it be considered as a powerful well-rounded style too?

Versatile Wrote: Loving the ideas Nindz, I think Raiden was never taking seriously. I think his throws should have more of a serious,god-like tone to them. I also believe his throws should have the most effects to them..like for example. Anarchy - Raiden punches the puny mortal in the stomach really quickly. This causes them to fall to their knees. Raiden then puts one hand on the opponent's forehead and all of sudden Raiden's body becomes electric(like it does in the previous MKs). Within a second of two Raiden then begins to drain electrical energy into the opponent's body through their forehead. The throw would have 3 effects. 1. If Raiden has a full bar of health the throw would take away half of the opponent's lifebar and a quarter of your life bar. Raiden's agressor bar is now full. 2. If Raiden has less than half of his bar left this throw does that amount of damage to the opponent. 3. If neither situation 1 or 2 takes place then this throw counts as a counter hit. After the shock the opponent would crumple down even more. This would count as a counter hit so they cannot block, giving you free damage. Of course this would probably be Raiden's best throw and should have an extremely difficult command and a small escape window. I also agree with your character stuff Nindz. The characters were FAR to similair statistically in MKDA. Everyone should be diverse and play totally different EXCEPT for the basics such as frame advantage, having jabs, throws, low/mid/high attacks and stuff like that.

If raiden must be worked like this, then imo his combos should be minimum like jax....these two characters will be the most powerful.
I suppose we could have raiden as a defensive power character and jax as an offensive power character.

XcarnageX Wrote: Nindz, I like most of your ideas, except the part about each character having only one unarmed style. I think 2 per character like in MKDA is better. One per character IMO hurts characterization; in most fighting games where each character has one style, the character is likely to be based around that style. However, MK doesn't work like that. Characters are much deeper than just a single style; they should have two styles that fit them, not one that defines them.

Firstly each character has two styles: a weapon and unarmed, so characterization wont be a problem...
my reason for stating each character having only one unarmed style is simple...midway team would be able to work the style to the best of its true nature...as i stated above....the attacks for each style are spot on...but each style lacks the other areas of fighting, such as throws, trapping range, joint locks, heck even ground work!
Another reason why i'd like each character to have one style, is to have plenty of characters in the next mk, with their own characterisation.
I mean playing as Blaze was part Kano, part Scorpion and Cage...
playing as Mokap was part Kenshi, part Cage, and part Sonya....
I wouldnt want the next game to be like that where characters play simliarily to others....after all, where's the characterisation there?
Having one style per character would work better imo, but its negotiable i suppose...at the end of it, these are just ideas, whether or not mk team take them into account is another matter

Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: Well nindz, I think your ideas are cool but I do have a few things to add. I like the stats thing with punches, kicks, trapping, and grappling, but what about a fighting style like Pi Gua Zhang which doesn't really focus on punches or kicks but more of chops and palm strikes? And what about a defensive style such as Taijitsu which incorporates lots of techniques? Wouldn't it be considered as a powerful well-rounded style too?

Well about the stats thing....palm strikes use the same distance as punches...
as i stated above there are 4 ranges in a fight...
the kicking range, which is the longest...all forms of kicks be it roundhouse, side, front all fall into this category...
the punching range....incorporates all manner of punches be it hooks, jabs, crosses, even palm strike as they fall into the same range gap...
the trapping range...will incorporate all manners of elbows, knees and headbutts...
the grappling range...will incorporate the good stuuf like, throws and jointlocking...
note sub...i mentioned ranges above not actual techniques....i cant account for every technique in the world but i can say that every technique will into one of the four ranges i mentioned above....

As for powerful styles like such as taijutsu...
if its to well rounded and stuff, all midway need to do is give it to weak character like li mei, depending on which characters are present in mkda...

The key pointers i'd like in midway are things like what the above two guys posted ...
things like characterisation and diversity....
things like balance...as much as im a scorpion fanboy...i'd like him to have some weaknesses.....maybe less more as others...but in mkda the dude was near enough invincible....id like him to be tone-downed just a little....
another way of explaining it would be, if limei is the weakest...i want that balanced out by her being the fastest...
if jax is powerful, then i'd like him with minimum combos as he's already a devastating character.....giving him a 7-hit combo with his power is ridiculous..
so on and so forth

Versatile Wrote: Everyone should be diverse and play totally different EXCEPT for the basics such as frame advantage, having jabs, throws, low/mid/high attacks and stuff like that.

I thought that "stuff" is what made up diversity amongst the characters...O_o?

nindz Wrote: An idea i thought of whilst fighting..... Blocking There are two ways i think it could be implemented... Timing method Blocking should be timing based. You'll only be able to defend around the time of an attack coming in. This method will destroy those people who love to block and force to think about other tactics. Depending on a persons reactions, he will be able to defend every attack....through to no attack.

If you would, explain a little more. Do you mean blocking is based off of frame windows, like a just frame? Say i have a window of oportunity to block within 5 frames of move A?

Or, if a person blocks move A, they are at a disadvantage, thus must continue blocking? If it is the later that you mean, then that is what frame advantage/disadvantage is for; something Midway needs to learn.

Also, what do you mean by "traping?"

nindz Wrote: Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: Well nindz, I think your ideas are cool but I do have a few things to add. I like the stats thing with punches, kicks, trapping, and grappling, but what about a fighting style like Pi Gua Zhang which doesn't really focus on punches or kicks but more of chops and palm strikes? And what about a defensive style such as Taijitsu which incorporates lots of techniques? Wouldn't it be considered as a powerful well-rounded style too? Well about the stats thing....palm strikes use the same distance as punches... as i stated above there are 4 ranges in a fight... the kicking range, which is the longest...all forms of kicks be it roundhouse, side, front all fall into this category... the punching range....incorporates all manner of punches be it hooks, jabs, crosses, even palm strike as they fall into the same range gap... the trapping range...will incorporate all manners of elbows, knees and headbutts... the grappling range...will incorporate the good stuuf like, throws and jointlocking... note sub...i mentioned ranges above not actual techniques....i cant account for every technique in the world but i can say that every technique will into one of the four ranges i mentioned above.... As for powerful styles like such as taijutsu... if its to well rounded and stuff, all midway need to do is give it to weak character like li mei, depending on which characters are present in mkda... The key pointers i'd like in midway are things like what the above two guys posted ... things like characterisation and diversity.... things like balance...as much as im a scorpion fanboy...i'd like him to have some weaknesses.....maybe less more as others...but in mkda the dude was near enough invincible....id like him to be tone-downed just a little.... another way of explaining it would be, if limei is the weakest...i want that balanced out by her being the fastest... if jax is powerful, then i'd like him with minimum combos as he's already a devastating character.....giving him a 7-hit combo with his power is ridiculous.. so on and so forth

yeah. I like the whole "Jax should be strong, but slow and somewhat lacking in combos" thing. Li Mei should be a fast character and Scorpion should be well-rounded but have weaknesses to him.
The stats thing you talk about sorta reminds me of Mario Tennis for the GBC because that game had character stats such as speed, power, spin, and technique.

"I thought that "stuff" is what made up diversity amongst the characters...O_o?"

What I mean is that EVERY character should have those things. Of course everyone's jabs,throws,reversal,etc will be different, but they will all have it.

"I thought that "stuff" is what made up diversity amongst the characters...O_o?"

What I mean is that EVERY character should have those things. Of course everyone's jabs,throws,reversal,etc will be different, but they will all have it.

I felt in MKDA that the characters need more attacks to really do something. Like certain characters are fine, but my favorite (mavado) has very few attacks to relie on to defend himself. As with Tekken(yes i know, many of you don't like that tekken but me) has over 70 attacks per character along with a good mix up so your not a huge disadvantage. That i would like to see.

Satyagraha Wrote: If you would, explain a little more. Do you mean blocking is based off of frame windows, like a just frame? Say i have a window of oportunity to block within 5 frames of move A?

Precisely this! Characters like scorp/sub will be nicely rounded and their frame rate should be fairly good....guys as powerful as jax should have a low frame rate maikng it harder for him to defend, as he should be an offensive character...midway can do the tweaking to their pleasure...but yea...thats the genereal idea

Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: yeah. I like the whole "Jax should be strong, but slow and somewhat lacking in combos" thing. Li Mei should be a fast character and Scorpion should be well-rounded but have weaknesses to him. The stats thing you talk about sorta reminds me of Mario Tennis for the GBC because that game had character stats such as speed, power, spin, and technique.

Lol be careful though sub, we dont wanna turn this into mario lol

Yeah, now that I think about it stats does sound like a great idea. When you highlight a character it would be a big picture of their face, and at the bottom it could be much smaller full body sketch or 3D model. Perhaps when you press A the sketch could animate into a 3D version and the character would then do some kind of taunt like form Kori Blades or Johnny would put his shades on..something cool like.

But to get back on topic, when you press A instead of the character autmatically being picked a window pops up. By pressing right or left you can go through the 4 Stat windows. One window would be the regular data window. That window would tell you the height,weight,name,age,satus,hair,etc of the character. The next window would tell you their story. The window after that would tell you their gameplay statistics. Power, speed, frame advantage, reversal etc. These stats would give hte player an overall feeling of how the character will play. The last window would be the amount of times you've used that character, the amount of wins,losses and draws you have with him and all that stuff. Then when you press a again you will select him or her. Once selected hopefully *crosses fingers* you'll be able to pick 3 stances out of 5 for each character. You'd have to pick 2 hand to hand styles out of the 5 choosable and 1 weapon out of the 2 choosable.

I have an idea for Raiden.

It could be used as a combo breacker, a power up type move, or a strong blow away attack.

It is similar to Blanka's electric charge move.

Rayden can power up for a short amount of time like 1 or 2 seconds, and when the opponent makes contact with him, they will be stunned or thrown back.

If Rayden attacks them, he will cause extra damage.

A powerful electric charge, at close proximity can cause the opponent to go flying and slam on a wall, or be thrown through it.

You can see an example of this in Bloody Roar, when you change into an animal.

-------------------------------------------------

Another idea is to have Rayden be able to move at the speed of light to do combos.

You could cause the game to slow down and Rayden would be at normal speed.

You could have a second option for that move, and it will be in real time, all you would see is a flash, and your opponent would be blown back, and you would see a # combo hit counter come up on the side of the screen.

nindz Wrote: Sub-Zero_7th Wrote: yeah. I like the whole "Jax should be strong, but slow and somewhat lacking in combos" thing. Li Mei should be a fast character and Scorpion should be well-rounded but have weaknesses to him. The stats thing you talk about sorta reminds me of Mario Tennis for the GBC because that game had character stats such as speed, power, spin, and technique. Lol be careful though sub, we dont wanna turn this into mario lol

LOL, of course not! I don't want to see Mario in MK6 using Plumber as a fighting style and Plunger or Hammer as his weapon! (though that would be crazy) Or how about Bowser and Terrorize as his fighting style?

Anyway, I should make up some fighting style stats like you did! I will probably edit this post if I find anything else about these two styles that would make me change their stats. Btw, Hapkido is more like Taijitsu than I had realized. I'll explain later on that one.

Pi Gua

Punching: 5
Kicking: 1
Trapping: 3
Grappling: 1

Taijitsu

Punching: 3
Kicking: 4
Trapping: 3
Grappling: 4

Mario would work that ass for free!!

I would like to see Custom combos.

Have a meter like the super move meter for street fighter, but you would use a level to link one combo to another.

It would be cool to have, and it would be limited enough so it's not cheep.

--------------------------------------------

Another way to do it is to have a meter like the Run meter in MK3, and have it so you can link any move as long as the meter is not 100% depleted.

You could activate the meter like the Aggressor or like the SC2 power up.

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There should be 1 hand, and 1 weapon style.

A characters hand style could be 1, or a combination of as many as needed depending on the story of the character. One style could be a mix of 5 styles.


Having the 2 styles separated only slows you down, and holds you back from too many possibilities.

Custom Combos would be an interesting addition, though I'd rather it be with a super meter than have it done via something like a Soul Charge from SC.

But what I'd really like to see would be similar to the -ism styles from Street Fighter Alpha 3. Like have three different styles that would be like... Your character would still fight normally in terms of normal moves with their own unique styles in DA but there would be differences between them.

1st Style - This style could be more like the MK 1/2 style. You could do neck kicks, your blows would do LOT more damage, there would be a super meter but could only do one super (souped up special) and it would fill up slowly. You wouldn't be able to use weapons and would only have access to two hand to hand styles. No back or forward dashes, but normal walking speed is improved.

2nd Style - This style could be like the MK 3/4 style. This style wouldn't do as much damage but would have a good deal of combo-ability with specials and normal moves. This style would also allow you to run and would have a super meter that would allow you to do massive custom combos (Brutalities). No forward or backward dashes and you would only be able to use one hand to hand style and one weapon style.

3rd Style - This style would be based along the DA style of play mixed with new MK6 additions. It would play similarly to DA with two hand to hand styles and one weapon style. This style would also allow for forward and backward dashes but no running. This style would let you do both a super or a cc (brutality) with a full super bar and the meter would fill up the fastest but this is balanced by having the style do the weakest physical damage.

What do you guys think?

The_Truth Wrote: Custom Combos would be an interesting addition, though I'd rather it be with a super meter than have it done via something like a Soul Charge from SC. But what I'd really like to see would be similar to the -ism styles from Street Fighter Alpha 3. Like have three different styles that would be like... Your character would still fight normally in terms of normal moves with their own unique styles in DA but there would be differences between them. 1st Style - This style could be more like the MK 1/2 style. You could do neck kicks, your blows would do LOT more damage, there would be a super meter but could only do one super (souped up special) and it would fill up slowly. You wouldn't be able to use weapons and would only have access to two hand to hand styles. No back or forward dashes, but normal walking speed is improved. 2nd Style - This style could be like the MK 3/4 style. This style wouldn't do as much damage but would have a good deal of combo-ability with specials and normal moves. This style would also allow you to run and would have a super meter that would allow you to do massive custom combos (Brutalities). No forward or backward dashes and you would only be able to use one hand to hand style and one weapon style. 3rd Style - This style would be based along the DA style of play mixed with new MK6 additions. It would play similarly to DA with two hand to hand styles and one weapon style. This style would also allow for forward and backward dashes but no running. This style would let you do both a super or a cc (brutality) with a full super bar and the meter would fill up the fastest but this is balanced by having the style do the weakest physical damage. What do you guys think?

AMAZING!
Midway should hire you!! lol

Seriusly, very good stuff dude! Brilliant ideas!

LOL! I was about to post the same thing today after reading up on CVS2.

I love this idea. When you select your character there would be 4 grooves.

1. OS Groove - MK2 style. Uppercuts, round houses, sweeps,etc

2. RV Groove - MK3-MKT style. Same basics MK2 style with a run button and one button throws. Also dial up combos

3. DA Groove - MKDA style. Branch combos, no frame advantage, quicker attacks, non existant CHing and throws that dont break block.

4. FC Groove - MK6 style. Custom combos, frame advantage, slower attacks, faster movement, CHing, throws that stop guard, in depth reversals,etc.


Of course...I am almost 100% sure this way of play will NOT be in MK6, although it is an outstanding idea by you man. I'm sure most of us, however, would prefer it if Midway concentrated on making MK6 a serious 3D fighter by adding to it's already good core system. To me MKDA has a great foundation. They don't have to worry about making interesting characters, an outstanding story or creating a fanbase, because MK has all these things. The core system is also amazing for a first effort at 3D. Sidestepping, tho shaky was implimented along with the side walk. Reversals, mix ups and some kind of level interaction was also implimented. Now all they have to do is make all of the things I stated just now deeper, balanced and more fun. They also need to add basic things like frame advantage, a real throw system and make more stances useful.