Sub-Zero should have a baby......

First off, Subzero is a NINJA, a chinese ninja warrior. Sub-Zero doesn't like the reference to being called a ninja, but he is in a way a ninja.

If anyone ever watched any of the old videos from the 90's

i think John Tobias quotes that Sub-Zero clan is chinese ninjas.

Sub-Zero's description in mk1

The actual name or identity of this warrior is unknown. However, based on the markings of his uniform, it is believed he belongs to the Lin Kuei, a legendary clan of chinese ninja.

So Sub zero may be a ninja, but that doesn't mean he needs to look like one

yep he can be dressed like a clown and clowns can dress like ninjas and if we're here we can dress politicians like barmaids cops like nuclear physicists and you like an old grumpy lady

Do you have to be such a wiseass? What i'm trying to say is that Sub Zero can look threatening adnd powerful without looking like another ninja. Or would you prfer SUb Zero, Ermac, Rain, Reptile, amnd SCoripian to all look like pallete swaps again

i want all of them to have their ninja outfits as alts or unlockables i don't mind them having non-ninja outfits but it kinda makes sense to me to wear the uniform of your clan if you're the grandmaster.... i am perfectly comfortable with rain or all of the rest having different uniforms

SOmetimes in clans the grandmaster wears a diferent uniform than the rest. the Lin Kwei could function like that

i thought about that and that could be a reason but in my opinion 1 warrior clans had rank related uniforms and this is a ninja/assassins clan even though it has been reformed and 2 clan leaders that are more distant or completely unimplicated in open combat in general wear different uniforms... i would like him to have his ninja uniform i'm ok with it even if it is only and alt but if it's not there at all we have a problem

I would support the idea of the ninja costume as a alt but NOT as a primary. If Midway decides to have Sub Zero's primary costume a ninja outfit, i am going to be very,very angry

what costume would you prefer? the MKD one?

To andrewbwm: He doesn't need to be a massive damage dealer. You are right about him being a more defensive fighter. He's still that way in MKD. I see Sub-Zero as a more versatile fighter as opposed to specializing in one particular aspect (e.g. Jax with power, Liu Kang with speed)

To Bad_Boy: I kind of see what you're saying about the Slide move, but I still like the Cold Shoulder. It'd be cool if he had both, because he could be tricky since Slide hits low in which you have to crouch block while Cold Shoulder hits mid in which you have to stand block.

I don't agree with you about Sareena siding with Noob Saibot. What you have to understand is that Sareena hates the Brotherhood of the Shadow and hates the Netherrealm thus her desire to leave the Netherrealm forever and live her life elsewhere. If she finds out who Noob Saibot is/was and understands what he became, she'd be disgusted and would definitely not want to side with him.

Regarding Sub-Zero's styles, back then, I didn't understand MKD Dragon too well. It just didn't feel as fast and as fluid to me as it did in MKDA and still sort of doesn't. However, Versatile helped me understand Sub-Zero's MKD gameplay style which in turn helped me appreciate it better. In MKD Dragon, his D + 1 is a good low poke, especially since it can lead to a free throw or lead to an Ice Clone set up. However, what I don't like about MKD Dragon is that they made U + 4 a high attack. It was a mid in MKDA and they should've kept it that way.

When it comes to Kori Blade, the MKD version is FAR BETTER than the MKDA version. In MKDA, there really wasn't anything particularly useful about it although the 4, 4 combo was kind of fast and he had the sweep kick (B + 4). Those two things are what MKDA Kori Blade have over MKD Kori Blade. Overall however, that doesn't really make much of a difference considering the new moves that Kori Blade was given in MKD which make it superior to its MKDA version.

1 is a mid hitting attack that can lead to a free throw if you can do it right.

1, B + 1 is a 2-hit combo and his only combo in that style. It hits mid then high and the second hit plants the opponent unlike in MKDA. Since this combo plants the opponent, it leads to a 50/50 mix up.

B + 2 is a mid hitting launch attack that leads to Sub-Zero's high damaging combos.

D + 2 is a mid hitting uppercut. You can actually connect the Cold Shoulder to this hit to take away about 1/5 of the opponent's health if I'm not mistaken.

D + 3 is a low hitting move that tracks since Sub-Zero spins the Kori Blade around. It's relatively quick and relatively safe. It's kind of like the equivalent to a good poke move in an unarmed style.

So yes, there are various differences. Those 5 things in MKD Kori Blade make it superior to MKDA Kori Blade.

To DotComName: Just because Sub-Zero's costume has a kabuto doesn't necessarily make him look like Shredder. And besides, I happen to like that costume. Regarding his alt costume, they wanted to give him a more Chinese look thus why he has that hairstyle.

To MasterJC: I think you mean Lin Kuei...
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OK. I regards to the Lin Kuei/Ninja stuff, let me clear some things up.

Lin Kuei is a Mandarin term that means "Forest Demon" or "Forest Ghost". It has to do with some Chinese mythology or something. Whether they existed or not is unknown. The whole Lin Kuei stuff is unverified.

Ninja is a Japanese term that has various meanings. It can mean "stealth warrior" or even someone who is patient. The Ninja go by Ninpo, the higher order of Ninjutsu. Ninpo has to do more with the spiritual and philosophical aspects of the ninja. It's influenced by Mikkyo Buddhism, Shintoism, and Shugendo.

I seriously doubt Sub-Zero follows Ninpo, although, in a way, he could possibly be a ninja in the sense that he has a good heart, which is important in Ninpo.

However, I would rather see Sub-Zero be more tied into Chinese stuff since that makes more sense considering he's the Grandmaster of an ancient Chinese clan of warrior assassins.

Back in MK1 - MKT, the Lin Kuei were referred to as a ninja clan. However, as you can see in MKM: Sub-Zero, Older Sub-Zero refers to himself as Lin Kuei, not a ninja. Quan Chi then in turn says "Ah yes, your Japanese counterpart." Also, you have to keep in mind that in the MK storyline, Takeda, a Japanese-born Lin Kuei warrior, left the clan and headed to Japan, using the Lin Kuei fighting techniques and methods to create Ninjutsu, the art/method of stealth. So in the MK storyline, the ninja are actually the Japanese versions of the Lin Kuei as opposed to the Lin Kuei being the Chinese versions of the ninja.

Now where does this leave characters like Reptile, Rain, and Ermac? Well, they are more-so ninja type characters as opposed to actual ninjas.

However, in MKDA, they went back to referring to the Lin Kuei as ninjas though that might be due to John Vogel and/or one of the other storywriters. I personally didn't like that.

All of those characters, including the cyborgs and those like Kitana, Jade, and Mileena are "MK Ninjas". In truth, Scorpion is really more of the true ninja as he's actually part of a Japanese ninja clan, the Shirai Ryu.

Funnily enough, Shirai Ryu is the name of one of the 73 Ninjutsu Ryu and was also one of the oldest ones along with Hakuun Ryu, Shinto Ryu (NOT to be confused with the Shinto Ryu style Darrius uses), and Negishi Ryu. There is another martial art that goes under the name of Shirai Ryu, but that Shirai Ryu is a style that teaches the methods of the Shuriken.

Even so, despite referring to the Lin Kuei and some others as "MK Ninjas", I don't really consider characters like Sub-Zero and Smoke to be ninjas. And besides, it's sort of hard to truly tell who is a ninja.

damn you have the longest posts ever
1 yes i agree he is a versatile character and that's the reason why i brought up for discussion i didn't say it wasn't any good i stated a personal opinion i like the way the kori blade looks
2 ninjas however japanese have always been more general than that and also they didn't have all the same uniform... ancient persian assassins that evolved into dark age iranian assassins wear a uniform similar to the what ermac has in mkd and koreans and chinese and many other asian cultures have similar uniforms so even if he is not a ninjutsu follower he could wear one
3 what costumes would you like him to have?

Wrong post... look down and there should be a new post from me... Remove this one if you can...

I would like Sub-Zero to have a costume that makes him look important. I think it should be grand looking to represent his new status as Grandmaster

i can understand this but i personally don't see him as the warlord in grand armor but i would like him to have a more original costume but i'd better see the ninja costume as an alt

heh, well, I had to cover quite a bit. Anyhoo...

1. I understand that you were coming from a more aesthetic point of view when it comes to the Kori Blade. Perhaps if there were three styles per character like in MKDA and MKD, it could be something like this for Sub-Zero's styles:

Shotokan, whilst not be slow, will be his more powerful style since Shotokan is a linear, aggressive and powerful Japanese Karate style.

Dragon would be his very versatile style as it is well-rounded.

Kori Blade could be more of his speed based style.

2. Yes, I'm aware that the uniforms weren't the same. Even back then in Japan, the uniforms were different. I'm just trying to separate Lin Kuei from Ninja and trying to give an understanding into both and they mean.

3. I love his MKD primary costume. I think it makes him look bad-ass though I'm not sure about the bluish skin. I would rather have his regular skin color with the icy eyes like in his MKDA alt costume. I did also like his MKD primary costume as the costume itself was something different and cool looking. However, I didn't like the hairstyle even though I understood and somewhat appreciated the motive behind that. I prefer his MKDA hairstyle in which he resembles more of a 50 something year old Bruce Wayne like in the first episode of Batman Beyond.

I know what Sub-Zero costume is...
You can see it in the movie from gamespot, where you can see striker, sektor, kintaro, ...

It's in the fight with stryker in the MK4 arena with the fan...

I have a picture:

http://minas-zilyas.magix.net

There you must click left on "Mortal Kombat" and the picture should come up.

It's the same costum that he was wearing in Shaolin Monks

i could go with the mkd primary but slightly edited... yes he definetly needs a more wise old man look now that he is the clan grandmaster i would rather like a new look that combines the old elements

For his costumes, I would love to see his MKDA Primary as his primary, his MKD primary as his alternate, and if they have three costumes, have his MKDA alternate as well.

Well i had one really cool idea.

Lin Kuei could be against the red dragon...


and maybe they could ally with the Black dragon to slaughter the remains of the red dragon.


Only reason i say this is because.


I hate Mavado

He cant break away from a ninga look if thats what he is...

Info from MK1>"The actual name or identity of this warrior is unknown. However, based on the markings of his uniform, it is believed he belongs to the Lin Kuei, a legendary clan of chinese ninja."

He cant break away from the ninga look if thats what he is...

Sorry, someone already corrected this...im sorry..please disregard.

Alright, good points. I really can't say i noticed any differences between them. I hardly use the Kori Blade as it is.
The only combo i really like and use alot is: Square, Triangle, Circle, L1, Square, Triangle, L1, Down+Square. That's the longest combo he has, and that's the only time i use the Kori Blade.

About Sareena, my thoughts was that she might still have feelings for him, she might side with him even after what he has become. But i guess you're right, she'll be disgusted.

Sorry, just had rant!

For someone reason i felt a Anakin vibe from Noob Saibot lol

The Lin Kuai is like A Jedi Order and the Broodhood of Shadow is the Sith Order.

Quan Chi or Shinnok would be like the Emperor that lured Sub-Zero the 6th to the Darkside lol

So that must mean Sub-Zero the 7th would be like Luke Skywalker.


Sorry, i'll get back on topic! This is how i see Sub-Zero costumes in Armageddon

His primary outfit would of course be the Shredder one and the Alturnate would be the MKDA Ninja outfit.

I'm hoping in next gen, that Sub-Zero the 7th passess down the title to a promising recruit.

But since cryomancer are a rare and dying breed, how could he possible teach a human to harness ice powers?

Sorry to burst Sub-Zero fans bubble but i perfer Sub-Zero in a ninja like gear. The unmask Sub-Zero doesn't do it for me lol

But i am curious if subzero will be getting a 3rd and which one would it be if he did have a 3rd? Primary MKDA unmasked or MKD alturnate?