Very nice thread.

Can't reply yet, still reading...

You just gave me that "Oh crap!" feeling. Midway should put that in MK7!

Yeah, just imagine the inverted, inside-out ribcage with the organs on the outside! ERRRK!

I loved that in MK4. It was more atmospheric with the music that was used also and I found MK4 greatly enjoyable and loved a good majority of the Fatalities enjoyable. I would prefer the bars disappearing and a full 3d camera to the darkening of the arena or background.



Those Fatalities are oretty gruesome, but I think the Raiden one wouldn't ever happen. Rains sounds promising, but it should belong to Kenshi or Ermac. (due to their telekinetic powers) Rains uppercut Fatality from UMK3 and MKT was rubbish and definitely one of the worst and stupidest in the game.




I love that Sub-Zero Fatality. That would be so awesome to see.

I liked Killer Instinct's in game Fatalities. You had to do them in combos on the firts game and could do them in them or outside of them on the second game. They were avoidable of course and had severe delay if missed. it would make things more interesting in MK, however I would hope if such a thing were introduced, that it wouldn't take away from the overall fight and just be a quicj way to kill off someone cheaply. Also, if Hara Kiri's return, then they should be performable mid battle too.



These are great ideas and I agree with you. Character specific Fatalities would be nice, but those would require even more work. You'd have your standard two for any one character and then another load for each character, or a variety of them that could be finished off in unique ways depending on who you are and who they are. This would be very intereting to see as then you have so much to play with and that exampel with Kabal and Mavado is brilliant.

Fatality execution is always a problem. There are many ways in which they could be varied, but you cannot go through too much of an effort to tdo them and most would be unhappy with this if the end event wasn't worthwhile. Fatalities are too easy to pull off however. I'd like variety in how we perform them.

Thanks again for all the replies everyone! You've all put forward amazing thoughts, comments and ideas!

Fatality Element no.1 - Blood

If there was any reason to pull off a Fatality, it was to see the crimson liquid within the opponents body spray all over the place on screen, giving your hard fought victory the ultimate marker of triumph. To the many that saw blood flowing so freely in such vast quantities back then, it was somewhat shocking and entertaining. In Raidens Fatality, he shot electricity at you making the head explode, which caused the above mass of blood. Back then, blood simply sprayed out Kill Bill style (though probably not that comedic), fell to the floor and then eventually faded away, thus ending the Fatality and ending the entertainment value. There were no added effects with the blood. No markers, no stains, nothing to tell you what had gone on except for a headless corpse.

MK2 arrived and saw blood continue on in the same way, however in the likes of Kung Lao’s Centre Slice Fatality you would see a quick spray of blood fly around and then the remainder of the Fatality accompanied by bloodied flesh adding to the gore. The decapitations (Reptiles and Kitanas spring to mind) saw a blob of blood hover in the air for a second or so before dropping to the ground with a wonderful squelching sound. That was blood with sound adding a somewhat satisfying extra to the Fatality.
MK2 also saw the bloodied ‘FATALITY’ announcement with blood dropping onto the scene, but yet again even all of this extra blood disappeared.

MK3, UMK3 and MKT arrived on the scene and, imo, provided the most boring of the blood effects. Explosions and decapitations were met with the same animations of crimson which appeared either in a burst that faded or a quick spray and as usual, no blood to mark the death afterwards. In its place was an overly exaggerated mass of bones and body parts.

MK4 saw some welcome changes in the use of blood within the Fatality. The most important was that of blood staying on the scene. The many explosion Fatalities within the game (Raidens OverHead Electrocution, Fujins Crossbow Shot, Tanyas Twisted Kiss) saw blood fly all around the arena and form puddles on the floor. Some even had limbs sticking out. The next welcome effect was that of blood stained on the camera. Fortunately, this was always random and would always hit the camera in different locations each time keeping the end effect somewhat fresh, even if the rest was the same. The final welcome factor was that of mass puddles. These were seen mainly in body rips or decapitations with the dismantled body parts falling into seas of blood which you saw forming as it poured out of the opponents neck, torso etc. As always, the amounts of blood was excessive. These new effects were however necessary imo for the sake of realism.

MKDA introduced the long awaited blood stained battlers adding a new factor in terms of bruising and cuts. The problem with the blood in MKDA was the way it looked. The blood looked like thick blobs running down the players body. On white clothing, no marks were left. Blood magically absorbed into clothing without a stain and landed on the floor only to dry and eventually fade at a later stage. There were nice smearing effects if you stepped in it (no sliding or slippery surfaces though – would have been fun).

MKD sees more of the same from MKDA, but with a slight improvement in blood, but only within the main fights. With this analysis you can see that blood has come a long way within the Fatality and even outside of it as many will have noticed.

So how much blood is needed within a Fatality? Surely this is based on what is being done and in terms of realism, the location of things like pressure points and locations of the main veins and arteries and also what is being removed, opened etc. There are also things like cuts, bruises and other open wounds to consider. We know blood is no longer a shock factor and as evidenced in some Fatalities not always a necessary occurrence. Too much of it can be over the top and too little can be a bad thing dependant on the action taking place.

How realistic does blood need to be? No one wants to see cartoonish and blob like blood flowing out a battered body like it’s some runny syrup. Life like blood should be runny and water like.

Is the Kill Bill effect too comedic? Blood can spray around as it did in the Fatalities of the older games, but is this a comedic effect that should go and be replaced by a more realistic blood release. Or for the purpose of some Fatalities, can it be a valid factor?

As Vainqueur mentioned on the previous page, we have grown in a society saturated by violence and in the gaming world this along with blood is a common factor. With MK it could be considered somewhat trivial. This does not mean in any way that it is less important than anything else within the game (read as: The fighting engine is the no.1 priority this time around in MK7, but that doesn't take away from any other element of the game. Everything needs the same creative attention and time.
Even a Fatality. We've all seen what happens when just one area gets rushed or has little time spent on it). Blood is one of the main driving forces of MK and therefore should be considered as a delicate and very important element. There are many other questions that can be raised regarding blood within Fatalities. I would appreciate your thoughts, questions and opinions on blood, the first element of the Fatality.

Agreed. A greater shocker would be realistic limbs, organs or wounds. I also don't like how they sometimes used the blood to disguise there is only limited capability in showing a killing (i.e. Reptile's MK4 face chew) or a change taking place on the character.



Yes, and a bit darker, more bordeaux. Though that has taken a good direction since MKDA.



I guess it could be when main arteries are hit or sliced, in that case it would be very gruesome, even.

Apart from the suggestions above, I think toning down on the blood factor would be a good idea. When someone is hit in the stomach with a hand palm jab, it doesn't make sense that blood would spray out of it. A hit to the eyebrow or nose, or a cut with a weapon on the other hand, would cause some amount of blood loss. Even then, blood staining clothing and skin would be more realistic than blood splashing out and laying all over the place (though it's a nice effect that it remains where it fell now and footsteps can mark it). Actually seeing blood run from one's battered nose over their lips and neck while fighting for their lives would really add to the brutality of MK.

Cheers,
VQ

Maybe if you hit the Opponent in the stomach enough times, they would puke up blood. This would be an in round effect.


In terms of Fatalities...
I'd like to see some more non-bloody finishers like spine breaking and throat constriction. I've said this before; it would add to the impact of Fatalities that ARE bloody.
If the REALLY bloody Fatalities are more of a rare type, then they will have added value because you don't see them so often.

Some of the blood in Deception is good, other types have actually spoiled Fatalities. Baraka's Blade Maul, for example, is spoiled by the bubble-composed blood coming out of the torso and it doesn't even hit the floor!

I've noticed about 5 main types of Fatality blood in Deception. These are as I call them; Torrent, Arterial, Dark, Shower and Pool. And in no particular order...

DARK:
So, called because it's, well... dark. Not seen too often. Occurs most notably in Puzzle Mode when the snake bites off a head. Unusually dark blood pours from the snakes mouth. Used in certain other Fatalities I cannot think of. I guess it's good, because it shows that different shades of blood come from different parts of the body. Can be any of the other four main types.

TORRENT:
This kind of blood is the 2nd worst; definately needs changing for Mk7.
Example? The Baraka Fatality above is a good example of this type.
I call it Torrent Blood because it is used to represent the instances where a huge flowing torrent of blood would gush out from a completely torn Opponent. Fair idea, but poorly executed. As said before, it is a poorly constructed mass of red balls which seem to have little effect on the ground.
Also, used in Scorpion's Spear Fun for the limb blood. Less noticeably wrong than in Baraka's, though.

ARTERIAL:
Used in the majority of Fatalities to differing degrees of success.
Also, composed of noticeable red balls, but at least they are smaller than in the Torrent type. An example would be in Kobra's Fatality where he loosens your head before kicking it off. The arterial jets from the neck along with the trickling type found in round are what I mean by Arterial Blood. A decent effect, though it must be imroved for Mk7.

SHOWER:
This blood type is also found in-round. When it is used in Fatalities, if it hits the floor it makes the same splattering as found during the round.
Used in Scorpion's Spine Rip, when he rips the head off and holds it aloft.
The blood pours from the neck wound like a grisly shower...
Used in varying contexts; for example, as the short sprays of blood during the beginning part of Baraka's Blade Maul.
One of the better effects used in Deception. Naturally though, still needs improvement.

POOL:
The very worst type. Used when Sindel does her Concussion Hara Kiri.
The blood that pools around her looks like a garish, thick, paste. It just looks awful. Blood from the brain should be darker than this... And why is the pool so damn thick and gungy! Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. I'm going to go and have a Coffee, now... Oh wait, I don't drink Coffee!
Just bad.



Which blood type are you?



So, basically... The blood effects in Deception are by large not fit to be seen in the next game. Good try, though.

Like said before, blood flow should be consistant to the type of damage being delt. A palm strike to the nose would definetly cause some blood to flow since you're breaking the bridge of the nose, causing some of the viens inside to rupture. An uppercut to the mouth would cause a shattering in the jaw and teeth which would also cause blood flow. The idea of hitting somebody in the stomach and having blood spray out is ridiculious. Perhaps with enough strikes to the stomach or one strong hit straight to the center would cause the opponent to vomit blood, a normal strike wouldn't have that kind of effect. The basic strikes do creat blood loss, but it's not in the normal sense. The effect they produce is bruising and black and blues on the body. When a vein is struck, no mater where on the body, it can rupture and the blood flows up to just under the skin. This causes a bruise, and that's what's missing on the damage modeling. Tobias went in the right direction with blood during a fight in Tao Feng where damage modeling was indicative what would happen with black eyes, scraps and gashes were blood might drip out, and blood only dripping out when hit in the head which is most sensitive to impact and blood lose. Blood stained clothing is something that might not have been possible this gen, but with the Unreal 3 Engine that should be no problem. Wether the MK team will incorperate that is another story. Blood comes down in small streams, not in gushers. It's also a bit darker, however, I can see the need to brighten it up since it makes it easier to see.

As for blood in fatalities, like tgrant said, MK4 stands head and shoulders above the rest in terms of presentation. With blood spatters on cameras, along with pools of blood on the floor during a fatality provided a great sense of accomplishment. Jarrek's Eye Laser was a great example of one of the gorier fatalities in the game. My biggest problem with the game, and it may only be due to the fact of limited technology is that once a limb was torn off, the effect was the same, a fountain of blood. Examples include Kai's Fire Ball, and Sub-Zero's Head Rip. But then you also had varying degress going from one type to another. Such as Kai's Aireal Ripper. He first rips you in half, causing the fountain, but after droping you it begins to pool up. One of the biggest problems in the current games it seems is that the blood flow is far too slow. Blood is usually pressurized seeing as how your body needs to keep a certain pressure on the inside to accomidate the outside. If that's disturbed, blood would shoot out as if it was coming out of a vaccum in a rapid stream.

In the recent games, weapon combat is a sure way to get blood flow from almost every strike, but it, once again needs to be dependant. A small slas would cause blood to first splurt out a bit, before starting to trickle down. Impalment in MKDA was one of the things that made it completely realisitc. Blood would drip down the weapon itself, that's why many bladed weapons have special blood grooves cut into them to let blood escape down the weapon, preventing a vaccum.

We can take in to account special moves as well. This might be one of the better examples of how blood is supposed to flow. Scorpion's Spear is a good example of maping. After impact, the opponent is actually thrust back for a second, with blood spurting forward, and then stoping. Cyrax's Chest Blade is also a good example since it's a blade, it will cause blood flow. I can't speak for projectile attacks, seeing as how I've never been hit with a fire ball to say how blood would actually flow. So that's open to discussion.

And then we have the fatalities like I touched on earlier. The best way to get shock value is attention to detail. If blood spill looks the same as always it takes a way from the fascination of doing a fatality since you have a pretty good idea of what it will look like. Dropping the sense of realism in what can be and can't be done as a fatality, and focusing on what it would look like if it was possible are different things. Even something like a neck breaker would have some blood but not to the same degree as a total ivsceration of an opponent's being such as Cyrax's fatality in MKDA.. That was probably one of the better ones I've seen since it had some good shock value. After getting pulled into his chest, you would see blood spilling from smallsections, but the way the blood looked really made it that much more phoney. It was just too thick and too chunky. Blood would flow in a steady stream, only avoiding elevations on the surface it flowed down on. Even something like a Neck Breaker, depending on how sever it was would have blood spilling from the mouth, as well as any impalement fatalities. Blood might pool around the wound it self, but if it was say, straight through the waist, and no blood grooves were present in the impalin object, blood might pool up inside the body, once again coming out of the mouth.

In this era of gaming, realism is excpect in almost all aspects, even if it's unrealistic in terms of presentation, certain physics principals need to be applied. Blood can't be used as a coat of paint on a fatality on to make it look gorey. It needs to be shown with detail to truely show a grizzely seen.

i dont really have any idea for new Fatalitys for MK7 but i do how ever what some old 1's return

MK1:Scorpion Toasty
MK2:Liu Kang Dragon

Thats all i can think of at the moment i will edit this post if i think of More

I agree with whoever said that blood is used far too often to cover up where there should be gashes and wounds, but underneath the crimson overgloss, there isn't.
In Mk: D, set the options to zero blood and do a Fatality. You'll see what he was talking about. The Fatalities look awful without the blood, because when you do a finisher that rips the Victim's torso away, you'll see that where there should be ragged meat, (like there was in Mk2)there's a 2d flat plane which is muscle coloured, but exhibits no signs of realism at all.
It reminds of Mk3, when there was a Torso cut in that game, the sprites for it were simply a cut-off point between the two body parts with a thin line of blood inbetween. You could tell even more, because the Victim's limbs would be floating in mid-air.
In Mk2, there was the ripped muscle and spine section hanging out. That's how to do it, not some clean, computerized cut-off point that's used in Mk:D with a tonne of blood covering up how stupid it looks.


Just had to pop in and say that, while doing some late net surfing...

With next gen technology much more is possible. Watch the NBA 2k6 for X360 trailer (on gamespot). The details show tiny drops of sweat on the bodies. This could be implemented for blood in the next MK. We could see tiny blood droplets flowing together, rather than big blobs. Spraying of small drops instead of offshoots of massive ones.

The systems would be able to add extra details to the animation, having the facial animations independent of some of the action, so if a fist is coming, they would open their eyes wider, and their face would rupture with the hit, you would see the initial spray of blood from the nose and mouth on impact, then blood would continue to run. From the nose, down to the lips were some would run along the chin and down the neck, while some would pool in the mouth. The fighters would spit the pooling blood mid fight, with sprays of blood and saliver, or a consintrated bloody spitball to the ground. Black eyes, bruising, torn clothes, bloodstained cloth.

I think the basic problem with the fatalities are the lack of realism and the fact that they are overreacted.For example in MKSM I loved the fatality that would be used against Millena and Jade they were realistic,but you overreacted with Reptile's fatality.I don't understand why u didn't let his opponent die only by the fact that he puors acid in your mouth and you did that stuff with the skelleton.These are some facts that ruin a good fatality.The idea was perfect on Reptile's fatality but it was ruined I say with that skeleton s#it.
Basicaly I think they should be very much realistic and as simple as they can be.

(Scuze my spelling,maybe I made some mistakes)

I think that pretty much all that can be said about blood effects has been said.
Perhaps, a brief conclusion on what Mk7's blood needs to be like before moving on to the next element, Tgrant.



Perhaps, humour factor is also an element? How goofy does a finisher become before it is just lame? How far should the team go with the humour and what gags might they use? Should "funny" finishers be dropped, full stop?

I don't think so. Take Liu Kang's Possesion as an example; funny, downright daft, yet disturbing at the same time. This a perfect example of a good "humour" Fatality.
A bad example would be Kabal's Spinner, which I have said made me laugh, but it's a one-trick joke and it's completely moronic with it. I mean, surely Kabal, a Character with razor-sharp Hookswords, could have had a more fitting, horrific Fatality?

Joke Fatalities work best when a non-serious Character is doing them; Bo Rai Cho, for instance. Yeah, I know people think his "Fartality" is absolutely terrible, but aren't you glad Scorpion didn't do it?

Fun factor of anMK fatality: something so grotesque that it leaves you stunned, unable to react. Something sarcastic and nasty at the same time, and not cartoonish enough or cheezy, cliche, and so on....

You feel that the fun of the Fatality should come from the guilty pleasure of administering a brutal and shocking defeat of the Opponent and not from some uninspired, laughable means?

So, are you saying comedy Fatals should go?

Bad example: Bo' Rai Cho swinging over and pulling the torch out and then, a blazing fart. The MKD fatality.

Better execution: Bo Rai Cho stomps on the right knee, then laughing, stomps again on the left knee. The opponent staggers on the ground with his/her broken legs when bo' Aproaches settles on their chest/face.

He laughs whle sitting in a buddha position (the opponents mumbling can be ehard from behind his butt) and then a "Haha" and a violent flare explodes underneath him sending him a bit (few Centimeters) high, as he jumps up to his feet, looking down on the cooked chest of the victim.

Yeah, that would be an improvement... Although, not for the victim!
It's bad enough having Bo fart on you, but to sit on your face, as well!

it has to be simple,bloody,gorey,original,and most importantly,NOT CARTOONISH.I cannot stress that enough.

Obiously everyone(or most of everyone) wants eveything to be more realistic looking(which realy needs to be looked upon for when fire and ice and tele/mind powers are used because they look realy bad) and non repetative as they have been the past few MK's. But, whas with the keep it simple stuff like Johny Cages brain rip fatality for MK:DA? One thing I think that lacks is making it a more drawn out fatality. For example Sub-Zero's Fatality in MK:D where he freezes just the bottam half of you and sweeps you taking the bottom half of your body away then he slowly walks up to you as you try to crawl away begging not to be killed then he stomps on you dealing the fatal blow! Nothing simple about and I would have to say one of my favorite Fatalities from MK:D. Another thing(which ive also heard on other posts) is camera angles and slow motion effects added to the fatality. GREAT IDEA!

Now this might be a bit to read but IMO a great fatality idea( but just may not be graphicaly possible)

Tsang Sung

going with the whole soul steal idea. . . He starts to summon captured souls form himself bringing out like 3 or 4 then he sends them to the lost oponent and they start to grab and pull on the inside of them as they start to yell and scream the souls start pulling the lost oponents soul out with him fighting for it trying to hold on and after a little struggle they pull it out with the lost one dropping to their knees and falling over with the souls dragging the new soul to Tsang Sung and throwing it into him becoming apart of him with the other souls shortly after flying back into his body.

No blood or guts but IMO it owuld be a really cool fatality to watch.

Another idea is if a character had chains with blades on either end (there is such a weapon, but not sure wat the name is and doesnt have blades) but at either end there would be either sword type blades or mini axe type blades.

For the fatality the person would take them out and start doing a fancy form with then then go into a quick kill but it would be shown in slow motion. As the get closer to the person in regular speed they come up them swinging the blade chains around then they swing up cutting one arm off then the other would come around and cut the other arm off then still with the circular motion bring the other one back up again and cut them in haf from the crotch up. Now 2 things can happen, the slow motion idea and with each hit the body comes up a little in the air with the limbs flying off and the body splitting in two or show it in slow motion but nothing falling or flying off then in regular speed from a few angles and then the arms fall off and body falls to their knees and splits in half.

Complex fatalities are bad. They get overspiralized and unbelievable. Sub-Zeros freeze+stomp is not complicated but rather lengthly, don't mistake that. I personaly liked Cage's skull / brain rip (it looks like a skull afterall) becouse of it's simple grotesque brutality. Nothing to overwind there, it's simply good, better than the head punch.

Now, the thin line is when the theatrical fatalities come in. Scorpions dismembering and neck break was too good, but had one moment of complete dumbness: why was the opponent hopping? It copuld have been far more better if Scorp would walk up, crouch and breack the neck of the victim who is lying on the floor gasping.

Unforgivably the worst fatality is Jade's in MKD. Bojutsu's don't have edges, and since I've read it on wikipedia, that it's made out of light metal: even worse. Blunt crushing weapons are made to be heavier, and not to mention: what are those "buoy (check spelling) things" on her staff?

Just make them realistic and much more gorier!!!!
But make it look more authentic like in MK 2, they looked some what realistic in a way.

Kabal's fatality in Deception was pretty interesting the one where he kicks you up and slices you in half.If they did that again, only this time have the guts pour out slowly, blood pouring out slowly in a realistic way, have the guy scream with fear and shock, perhaps blood coming out of his mouth while he's dying.Things like that along with blood on the weapons, blood on the guy performing the fatality, getting on him and his clothes.

I think if they analyze things like this and take their time combined with a new engine, MK will do a lot better.Especially with getting some of that WOW factor back that it once had that pretty much started rated M titles and blood in a game that really, really stood out from the rest and turned heads because of it.

I would prefer a "x-ray" fatality. means like in the movie romeo must die or blitz the league trailer wehre the camera switch into an xray vision and you can see the bones breaking. i think its not necessary to show all the blood. like some postes before (you have to feel, see the pain) and not the gore.
imagine subs head rip fatality weher you can see in xray when the spin will riped apart from the rips and hip

Chrome was right when it comes to complicated vs lengthy. Lengthy is better which is what i guess i meant to say. But I do keep hearing of people wanting to see the x ray thing and I juts feel it would take away from the gore too much and what MK was founded on. Gore is needed but realism is needed even more IMHO. But not in the sense of how peope are killed so much but about screams and blood on the weapons and blood spilling on the person doing the fatality.

I think two of the most important elements are: The surprise element, and the "sentimental" element

The surprise element is that the character does something u did not really expect...better if u've never seen it before... fatalities like this are:
Kitana;'s blow-up kiss of death in MK2
Darrius Picasso
Scorpion's fire breath in MK1
Ashrah's voodoo doll
Li Mei's pressure points

Sentimental value fatalities are those old fatalities u just love to have in the game.. even tho they are old and predictable, they are classics and a must-have. Some of these are:
Toasty
Kiss of Death
Reptile's eat
At least 1 decapitation
and so forth