We should be talking about blood still, really, since Tgrant hasn't posted the next element... So...


I expected the blood in Shaolin Monks to look better than in Deception, (and in most aspects it did) but where it really failed was in certain Fatalities -most notably Cage's Decap- where a head would be knocked and a gush of gas-like blood would shoot out and dissapear into thin-air without hitting the ground!



The most prominent faults in SM and Deception are that...


Mk D's Fatality blood looks like a load of paint bubbles!

MkSM's looks like gas!



Obviously, the next game needs a new blood look, but if you had to pick one type, which would it be, Deception's or SM's?
It's a case of "the lesser of two evils"...

I can't decide, actually!

I realise realism in terms of what is actually hitting the opponent and the amount of damage being dealt is something that has to be considered. I would see the in game effect of blood pouring out of someones battered nose. In the Fatlity, it'd be nice to see the end effect be somewhat like how Go-Go Yubari died in Kill Bill Vol 1 with the blood pouring out of their eye sockets too. If the overall death can look real along with the blood, then that helps bring both dramatic effect and realism to the game all at once.



I agree here. The blood pouring out at the end of that Fatality is disgusting. They can do alot better than that I'm sure.

I also agree with the option of having blood filled Fatalities being rare. The non blood Fatalities can be just as good, but the ones with the blood will end up being more appreciated when seen. I suppose the two could even be combined. Dependent on the Fatality itself you could have part of the Fatality being performed and no blood is spilled until the very end. Some could even work where you think blood will appear, but the Fatality actually ends in a much more dramatic way without the spilling of blood. This would work as a mind game to an extent. It's another prompt that could make the overall scene more interesting.



Excellent observations, man. I've not seen the MKD Fatalities for awhile, but having read what you just wrote, you've reminded me of how bad they looked with the blood effects. Hopefully they can improve the texture for MK7. Blood is runny and just slightly thicker than water. It's not a mass of thick paint or syrup. It dosen't drop in blobs and it splashes when it hits the ground. Stuff like this they need to pick up on. Surely they've cut themselves when younger and seen how blood looks. Even the colour isn't as dark as they have it in the game. So much to fix and they'll have the technology and time to do it. I can only imagine the next set of excuses they'll throw at us.

Again good observations, dude.

Very well said, bud. I've not played Tao Feng but the damage modelling as you've described it here sounds great. In game blood loss need to be reworked along with the blood loss within the Fatality. Maybe they could use Tao Feng as an example of how to do this effectively combined with a little common sense.



Jarek's Eye Laser Fatality was one of my faves and one of the best on MK4. When it begins the head explodes and you see the blood pour out of the nexk and then he cuts through the waistand the torso splits from the legs and all drop to the ground in a pool of blood. To me that was sensible.

I think the ones that has an overuse of the fountain effect (the Kill Bill effect) were cool to watch, but not so realistic. Kai's Fatality as you mentioned did this. I don't believe the next would spray blood in that way if the head was knocked off in such a fashion. I believe it'd just pour out and run down the body and then trail along the ground. Blood pressure also does need to be accounted for dependent on the limb being moved or the area being severed. Hopefully they can rectify that too.



I agree with all of this. Nice job, dude.



Wow. I've never seen that. that is really poor if the torso looks flat. MK2 was great as it had the flesh there for all to seet. MK4 didn't sadly but probably would have looked so much more impressive if it did. They need to combine these aspects of MK2 and MK4 and they'd be somewhere further on in improving the overall blood and flesh factor in MK. It seems they keep taking steps forward and then taking steps back and replace the good stuff with shoddily done rush jobs. It is the above that shows that the Fatalities are not getting the attention to detail that they should do.



Simplicity is alway a bonus. Dragged on or over the top Fatalities lose their appeal and most wouldn't bother watching them again.



I will do a summary. That was always a plan of mine. And you're moving into other elements there. Lets not get too far ahead now. Lol!



This is a brilliant idea. Such a camera doesn't needto be focused on the bones however. What if it followed the blood. Take Sub-Zeros Spine Rip as you mentioned. We watch the spine snap and then the camera follows up through the neck admidst the blood. That could be pretty cool. We could even watch as veins and arteries within the body burst maybe. That could be a new take on one of the Kiss of Death Fatalities.

A summary followed soon by the second element will be here soon.

I remeber the x-ray camera was used in Tenchu 3. The secret character, Tesshu used acupuncture needles to kill his victims. Depending on what kind of stealth kill you got, you'd get different x-ray shots. One was he'd ram a needle through the back of your spine, and out the front of your throat. Or he'd simply remove one of your disks by force, snapping your neck outward. It really added a nice touch since you could see the damage.

I've posted a fatality for Kobra along the same lines on several other threads. I don't want' to waste time trying to find one, so I'll type it in here.

Kobra powers up his feet and arms with chi energy and then rushes the opponent with a savage combo. Going from everything like jabs, plam strikes, and elbows to the opponent's upper half of the body. Couple that with a brutal assault of kicks to the opponent's lower half, Kobra then pulls back his left fist and lunges it at the opponent's forehead, just barely making contact. Kobra then simply pulls back his punch from the opponent's forehead, and we're shown an x-ray of the opponent's entire skeletal structure. It's completely shattered, and suddenly crumples inside of the opponent's skin, yet no blood was spilled. The fatality rellies on the "wow" factor.

Now that we've had Fatalities from Liu Kang involving charging his hands with fire, d'you know what I wanna' see? A Flaming Bicycle Kick.

That would be so cool; kicks his feet in the air, charges them with fire, then unleashes the Flaming Bicycle Kick on the opponent, kicking them rapidly with flaming feet until they fall to the ground. At the end the victim is left with huge carbonised gash marks torn vertically into their chest with spots of fire still smouldering their ripped and ashen clothing.

Fatality.

Mortal Kombat Deception is better, because not only do they have better fatalities, they have MORE!!! in DA, everybody was just stuck with one. What these MK makers NEED to do, is bring back all the characters in DA and combine them with the characters in DECEPTION, and create the ultimate "MORTAL KOMBAT TRILOGY" sequal, using those graphics. It would be a lot of fatalities, a lot of characters, a lot of stages... But I think it would be more than what PS2 could handle...

After reading that I should remind you of one thing. Quality is better than quantity.

I just think Midway won't use realistic blood because of how they want to avoid getting in trouble for it. The way the blood is used can actually bring back an all new "wow" factor that MK1 had done so many years ago. When you look back at all the blood used, it's not even realistic. We are all imagining gore that hasn't been seen in a fighting game yet. The graphical power of next generation technology could for sure be the 2nd coming of MK1 (or 2).

All the ways blood should work have been mentioned. The blood needs to interact more with everything. Like drip of ledges/edges, spray up on a wall (like if Kenshi slashes someones chest bad), stain clothes, drip/run/splash/smear accordingly!

I cannot stress enough an engine that uses random real physics.. everything, including the blood, would be different each time. Does anyone think a system like Xbox 360 can produce such realism? I mean, if they avoided making side games and useless things that I won't touch ever again..

I can't see why they'd get into trouble for having their blood look realistic. Games are always trying to make things look as real as possible so why would blood have to be the one thing they have to overlook? I find it silly that they'd get into trouble over it.

I should think the next gen consoles should be able to make blood look so much better than previous consoles. They're going to have alot to play with in terms of power and such and they should definitely be able to get a good physics engine.

Hello everyone, Im new but I'd like to have my say on this topic.

My first complaint is that they are no longer pushing the boundries like 1 and 2 did. When you pulled off a fatality in one of those games you felt it, you were in awe. They have sorta pinned themselves in a corner with what they are willing to do. Also as many people have said they have become somewhat of a joke. They corn it up waaaay too much. There is so much that could be done it makes me sad that they arent willing to take the steps to make it "New" again.

Here are a few things I think would make them have the impact that they once did.

1. The act of killing someone is a sadistic act, SO MAKE ME FEEL IT. The screen turns black and the person stands there, the character goes through the motions and its over. Make me feel like there is something at stake!! Make the character realize their impending doom. A struggle, the manerisms, it all goes together to make me feel like something substantial is taking place.

2. Something that ties into #1, CAMERA ANGLES!! Having scorpion stare intently with his souless eyea into the face of a dying man is one thing, but show it to me, make me feel that lack of campassion, that willingness to kill. Show me Subzero's eyes go cold as the life leaves his body.

3. This is one of the main ones. Lack of creativity. The have essentially tried to find 1000 ways to decapitate someone. Move beyond that. For example, sub zero has the ability to form ice. USE IT, BUT USE IT WELL. Here is a freebie for the devs. Screen goes black, SZ appoaches a cowering opponent, SZ clenches his throat, stomping on his leg breaking it, the opponent looks up beggin for mercy, SZ cup the opponents mouth shushing him, SZ then forms ice within the oppenents mouth eventually splitting his head in half like a pez dispenser, SZ rests the oppenent on the ground and shushes him one last time.

GIVE THE ACTIONS FEELING!

How bout another, and this plays into what others have said about using a character specific qualities within the fatality.

Screen turns black, The opponent makes an attempt to escape, Scorp throws his spear pulling the victim to the ground, Scorp slowly approaches the opponent spear in hand, Scorp slowly manuvers behind the opponent, pulling the victim close it appears he is whispering into his ear, the look of hope comes across the opponents face, but his eyes go blank as scorp slowling pulls the sprear across his throat, false hope given in a desperate time, scorpion stands over him as the blood spills from his neck.
*disembowlment would also work in this situation*


I have a boat load more of these I could post, but you get the idea. I just dont get the feeling of a dire situation. With the power of the next gen systems emotion should really jump out from these actions.

Fatality Element no.1 - Blood - A Summary

The first Element of the Fatality was presented and here is a summary of the main points discussed. These are the main issues with blood within the Fatality and the ones that need to be focused on in the future.

Add limbs, organs, wounds, bruises etc to add onto the end effect.

Dependant on the Fatality and how it leaves the body, the above are essentials. Some are given and perfectly obvious to why they should be there, whilst others are added effects and will give a more realistic feel to the end result. Various MK games have given good examples of each or attempted others with some success, but no MK game has provided all in a perfect balance and perfect presentation. With careful work, all can be implemented well. they have the technology, now is the time to use it.

Blood MUST NOT be used in torrents to disguise progressive physical changes or to hide flesh/bones on the body during a Fatality.We would like to see the progressive destruction of a face being chewed on or a body that has it's skin peeling off or even the flesh hanging from the split torso of a dismembered opponent. We want to see blood too, but it must not hide progressive damage and flesh and bones. These need to be seen so we can see and even feel the Fatality a little more in depth. Laziness takes us to presentation we no longer wish to see.

Blood MUST be more real.Blood in the Fatality needs to be a little more darker. It needs to be more runny and water like to match real blood. It should not look like blobs of syrup.

Blood is not always the answer.

Blood does not need to appear in every Fatality. Some are dramatic enough without its presence. In some Fatalities, blood can just be overkill. It should be used sparringly and where neccessary.

Consistency is key to a more realistic result.Blood needs to be consistent to the damage given/ Torrents of blood should not b shed via the impact of a small jab. Such consistency needs to be applied effectively based on the damage done, the area hit and the overall end effect of the impact.

Involve the camera and arena.MK4 showed us the wonderful effect of having blood splash in random locations on the camera during explosion Fatalities. It also was the first MK to show visible pools of blood lying around the arena with bones sticking out of them. Such end effects are welcome and add a nice touch onto the fatality. They are real effects also and show should be used a little more often, in the right circumstances.

Blood in the Fatality should look different to blood used in the fight.Surely it would be possible for blood to look and move the same during the fight and at the end in the Fatality, however, if either area needs the more attention with blood involvement, it is the end Fatality. The blood here needs to be as real as possible. A few of the points above explain how it should be.

Stains and marks on the winners body should be shown.

MKDA started this, but MKD seems to have toned it down a little. Blood gets on both opponents, not just one. The winner will most likely be blood stained along with their clothing if blood was involved during the Fatality. The amount that should be seen on them would be less, dependant on how badly beaten they were in the fight previous.

Sound is good.

We'd like to hear blood spill and spray. The sounds should be as real as possible. We know of the soft splashing sound it makes when it hits the floor. We hear it on movies and on tv. Why not in game?

Final words:

These are just some of the fundamental rules to utilising blood within the Fatality. Hopefully, we shall see them used to great effect in the fture.

Element no.2 will follow soon.

Anyone who wants to get in touch can find me in my irc channel, #mkchat. PM if you want to know how to join it.

I think the most important element of a Fatality has not yet been mentioned: SHAME. It was not enough to just beat your opponent, you had to brutally murder them too. After viewing a fatality, your opponent should be so pissed off that they want to wring your neck, or else go hide in a corner. MK1 was great in that respect, but now it has worn off.

One thing they need to add is more reaction on the part of defeated characters. There should be fear on their face, or shame, or anger, knowing that they are about to get REALLY messed up. In that respect, I really like the torso-rip fatality from MKD, where she knifes his feet, and then pulls him apart. The defeated character reacts, and clearly looks in pain and frightened.

A "Fatality" doesn't even need to be fatal, as far as I'm concerned. Just abusive. Picture this: Raiden defeats Sub Zero. Sub Zero falls to his knees, begging for mercy. Raiden charges his hands with energy, but then suddenly rolls his eyes at the pathetic sight before him. He drops his hands, kicks Sub Zero hard in the stomach (with a look of disgust on his face), and walks away, leaving Sub Zero writhing in pain and shame (and maybe puking a little realistic blood). How insulting! Perfect!

Every character should have three fatalities:

1: Gory Fatality (with lots of blood and bones and whatnot, as described over the last 4 pages)

2: Dismissive Fatality (non-fatal, but highly insulting, as I have described above)

3: Comedy Fatality (something potentially fatal, but silly, like dropping an arcade machine on them)

Anyway. That's what a REAL fatality means to me: shame.

Maybe those dismissive "Fatals" would have to have a different name, though.

How about "Finisher"? Or "Shame-ality"? :)

"Finishers" sounds perfect(a nod to snez mk), but "Shame-ality" sounds as dumb as a drunk mule(I know you were joking...)

Hehehe. "Bo Rai Cho Wins. Shame-ality!"


Good ideas.

What they need to do is go back to using Digital Characters in costumes.
Go to an anatomy class, and figure out and learn the best way to finish someone off.

Granted this would get the ESRB in a tightwad but ...whatever.

I would definitely have to agree with Darkness on one point. The MK team needs to attend a few anatomy/physiology classes. What would be even better would be to possibly get the assistance of a crime scene investigator or some equivalent. People like this have done studies on how blood splatters, how it moves, what wound would to what, etc. I, personally would like to see more fatalities using the environment. Not like deathtraps or anything like that. I would want personal background fatalities for if not all, most characters. Imagine this if you will: Scorpion defeats his opponent in the Living Forest stage. After inputting the command, the opponent falls to their knees at which time Scorpion kicks them in their head knocking them backwards. He then grabs them by one leg and drags them towards a tree. He then bends down, grabs both feet and proceeds to swing his opponent into the tree (ala Jason Vorhees from what I believe is part 6 or 7). Nothing to drastic. Just 2 or 3 swings is all you need. Maybe even have the opponent get impaled by a broken tree branch which their body broke on the previous impact with the tree. I think it would be a good idea. Please let me know what you think.

This is from queve's Mk3 Trivia thread. It is a segment of an Mk book that contains interviews with Ed Boon and JT. You can find the thread in the Classic Forum. This passage gives an insight into why there has not been any truly gruesome Fatalities, so far:

* Extremely violent and intense fatalities were planned but never executed. Mk2 Baraka was going to slit the guy in the mid-section and then the guts were supposed to spill out slowly with gory detail. EB: I think disemboweling is a little extreme (reason why they never used the ideas for Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3).


ED Boon thinks disemboweling is a bit extreme. I guess that's why there will be no truly shocking Fatalities in the future, too.

It doesn't matter. Fatalities need to be cool even if they aren't shocking.
The majority of MkD Fatals were not only unshocking, but also quite "uncool."

This has potential and could even replace the stupid Hara Kiri's. Excellent job on the description. I would love to see such emotion on the characters faces and this would definitely add something to the Fatalities.

A bit extreme? So we're doomed to have more lack of realism and stupid and poorly executed Fatalities simply because one man thinks they're extreme..... Ridiculous!

Yes, I agree. At least we know, though. It kind of explains all the sucky Fatalities... Cause Ed Boon thought good ones were too extreme.

It's a shame; that Baraka Fatality described would have been wonderfully gross and a perfect replacement for his Head Chop.
The way I see it, his two Fatalities should have been:

Blade Lift

Disembowelment

(Someone should make a really good fake or animation of that Fatality and rub it in Ed Boon's face.)
EDIT: Well, this isn't a really good fake, but it's somewhat like what that Fatality would have looked like:

Sorry for the delay with these updates, folks. I'll try and get the next Element done asap.

wait bloodline didnt u rite that sexy story on rated mk.com

What?



Anyway, I've just popped in to say that I saw a net vid recently.
The video was a preview of Mk deception someone had shot with a movie cam. It had Ed Boon describing the upcoming game at an event.
All the features described and the video made the game look awesome. In relation to this thread; when they showed the montage of the Fatalities with all the neck breaks and splatterings in rapid succession, it looked insane. My point is that videos can be really misleading and that the same thing will happen in all aspects for the next game.
You've all probably seen the video, I found it by trawling through some random forum. It doesn't buffer unfortunately, it loads as it plays.
I was really interested, so I let it stutter along, stopped it and played it.
I missed out on a lot of the Pre Deception hype, so this will likely have been seen. It has the history of Mortal Kombat from Deadly Alliance at the beginning.

I'll post the bar address in a bit. EDIT: I tried to look for it, but it wasn't there this time! Ah well... That sucks.

supp peepz

Well I'm new to this site, but after reading all the messages in this thread I must say, some of you guys are really creative. I agree wih a lot of things, such as the comedy in a fatality, I mean..why??. Fatalities are supposed to be serious and gruesome ( in my opinion ) There are times that I look at a fatality, and then I think of new cool onces, or adjustments in a fatality, for example

Quan Chi's neck stretch ( mkda )

The concept is alright but when I look at the fatality...well...it sucks....if I could make ONE simple adjustment it would be " Quan jumps on the victims shoulders, grabs his head, and he would rip the whole head including the spine of, so that you can see blood dripping down, maybe a few organs ...and very important, the sound effects..make a crushing/snapping/breaking sound while he's doing it,. A camera effect ( example ...zoom in, make the camera do circles around the victim, showing the skin get ripped apart, maybe you can see the victims back and actually see the spine get pulled out ( use your imagination...it would look really sick )...well...this tiny little things could make it a real nasty BUT in my eyes perfect fatality...I mean..this is quan we're talking about...he is bad ass, and be honest, he deserves a good gruesome fatality...it suits his character.

I also got a few ideas of fatalities...now..if the readers would, can some of you people give there opinion, just be honest :)
I shall only discribe one fatality I thought of.
( I have pleny more ideas but I'll start of woth one idea ).
ow..and try to see the fatality as I discribe it...
( ow one thing, I'm from hollanfd, so you may discover some weird looking words)

Baraka.

Point 1.

Baraka stands before his opponent. He lets his blades appear, and he does an uppercut like move with the blade sticking out of his arm, so the blade is going right through the opponents lowerjaw, into the head, past the brains and the blade is coming out of the head on the upperside. Blood and pieces of brain are falling through the holes in the upper and lower section of the head, caused due the blades. the blades are covererd in blood, ( a touch of realism ) now the right arms blade is in the victims head, wich makes the left handed blade free, now Baraka repeats the same uppercut move, causings a second blade in to the victims head, ( imagine what the head looks at this point...wait..it 'll get better ). Now baraka makes some sort of sound, a sort of sinister laugh/agressive grunt.
Now the camera starts to zoom in at the blades.

From this point on, there are two things that are really cool in my opinion.

Point 2.
one thing he could do, is while he has both of his blades in the victims head ( his arms must be close together, cause both blades are in the victims head ), so the thing he does is that he pulls his arms away from eachother, causing the victims head split in part making a bloody act, seeing the brains,blood, everything in the victims head to fall at the ground. Now Baraka is showing his bloodcovered blades, and makes aother sinister/ laugh/grunt.


The second thing he could do from Point 1. Again his arms are close together, and the bloodcovered blades are in the victims head. Now imagine if Baraka would lift the opponent up ( extremely painfull ) while both blades are in the victims head, ( maybe the opponent could horribly screem, in an agony of pain but it could be too much...already having two sharp blades in your head ....it would be cool thoug, but discuss what's cooler please ). After the lifting part Baraka executes the same move as in point 2. Pulling his arms away from eachother causing the head to fall apart but now it is the same as in point 2, BUT now ithe opponent is lifted, causing an extra duration, + extra pain and gore.

Maybe with some extra camera effects,close ups, circling, and VERY important, the soundeffects>>> bone snaps, flesh ripping, bone breaking blooddropping organs falling at the ground and a loud scary horrible scream from the opponent, all this together in a fatality....that would rock...
This is one of my many ideas for fatality's

please...give me your honest opimion. Any improvements are welcome to.

Peace