Well, the dial-a-combos are pretty annoying.

Dude is on crack. That what I say. There is more than enough depth in the gameplay to be taken seriously. Then you have more creativity in the levels than capcom has come up with in years. THEN you have all the cool factor stuff like knocking people back 30 feet, through a barrier, and down a 1000 foot drop to be splattered below.
Its creative, fun, and has a satisfying level of depth. Sounds like a winner to me. I've been a hard core fighting game fan all my life. I didn't like the early MKs because of lack of depth. MK2 was fun but I wanted Street fighter for a real brawl. Mk has come into its own in the last 2 games. Turning a game that was spinning down the toliet into a real joy to play. Not just for fatality kicks but for a real toe to toe fighting . If that guy thinks MK lacks depth he's playing it wrong. The only thing I find goofy about the fighting system is the new breaks. They could be done better. Other than that its great.

All I know, is there is only a few fighting games that I truly do not like, but MK is my favorite of them all. MKDA gave me more enjoyment than Soul Calibur II, and MKD is better than DA.

Well, look at the source. I said on this forum at least two weeks ago that EGM would give this game the worst scores out of all the magazines and the internet. How did I know? Because when it comes to fighting games, they've always hated Mortal Kombat. Hence the "true fighting game fans" comment. That was by Che, right? Yeah, figures. EGM is one of the biggest video game magazines in the country, but it had the least coverage on MK:D of any of the magazines. They were consistently scooped by GameInformer, PSM, OXM, and other non Ziff Davis magazines. Not surprisingly then, XBN, a Ziff Davis owned magazine, had little to no coverage of MK:D as well, and I've heard (though I can't personally confirm this) that XBN gave MK:D a 5 out of 10.
Honestly, anyone that says that there's no bias among these magazines is just plain stupid. That's like saying that Fox News or the New York Times are unbiased. Yeah it's videogames and all, but companies and magazines are not as far apart as we gamers would like to think. I think we've all heard that EGM has held a grudge against the MK team for getting spurned on an exclusive for MK:DA. Why? Because EGM has always bagged on MK. So EGM cries foul and acts like the MK team is in the wrong. Sorry, but if I were making a game and a magazine that's been highly critical of my previous work asked me for an exclusive, I'd easily choose a mag that liked what I was doing over the critical mag. You simply want your game to do well.
Either way, EGM is always having to answer the e-mails, the letters, and the accusations that they're biased? Why? Well, if the fact that other mags don't seem to have to deal with this issue nearly as much as EGM is any indication to you...
EGM has always fallen into the Street Fighter category. You know, the people with the superiority complexes who use decade old arguments to describe why their stuck in the past 2D cartoon game is more "hardcore" than MK. Please. These reviewers tip their hands several times in their reviews.
Also, someone explain to me these scores:
GameInformer: 9.5 and 9
IGN: 8.8
Gamespot: 8.5
Then look at EGM's scores. I'd be willing to bet that Che gets the review nod for XBN. I honestly don't know if he did or not, but there is some bad blood between Midway and Ziff Davis. Why? Who knows. But I sincerely believe that the coverage and review scores are affected by it, as well as old opinions and excuses that simply refuse to die.
Oh, and much like the rest of you, I'm a "hardcore" fighting game fan. I enjoy Street Fighter (II, Alpha, and 3), Guilty Gear, Darksalkers, the Vs games, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, DOA, Soul Calibur, and numerous other, more obscure fighting games and franchises. I enjoy MK more than the rest. So what does that make me? It makes me a fighting game fan, and the EGM reviewers seem biased and, more importantly, full of shit.

All joking aside, MK7 better drop the lame ass fighting engine and get some real gameplay going.
It is too slow.
It is cumbersome.
The animations of the characters get in the way of actually fighting.
It is seriously a laborious process. I love MKD just like any of you, but only because it is MK. That may not last forever.

wow... the first time I ever found out about MK was from EGM back in 1992 and now they are thrashing it..... sad
well crappy review or not...
I love this game and all it's other modes...
IMO this is truly the best MK to date!

I don't think so. It's unique, it's accurate, and it's really fun to play. So what if it's a tad slower than the other fighting games out there? It's a fresh take on an old concept, and one that, surprisingly, has been implemented a whole lot better than some other gameplay ideas out there (Tekken Tag Tournament, anyone?). Besides, it's a lot more fun seeing your character kicking someone's ass with near-authentic fighting moves than with simple generic punches and kicks.

I heard about the Mortal Kombat Deception review from EGM and I am not surprised. EGM got scooped when it came to DA and Deception. I don't know if they hold a grudge or not but I really don't care. MK D is a great game, and one of the best fighting games out. EGM claims to be the best gaming magazine, but I claim their mag to be the biggest load of ad filled crap I have ever seen.

Who's joking?
They better not touch it. I don't find this game too slow at all.There are some games that are too damn fast. At a certain point it just forces you into button mashing. There are plenty of moves that are near instant. How much faster can you get than that? I'm not saying that because I suck and cant deal with the speed. I've handed plenty of people thier asses that claimed they couldn't play at slow settings and could whoop me at faster settings. Are you sure you are playing the same game?
You cant possibly love it like me. I love it because its a great playing, and fun game. The fact that it has MK stamped on it has nothing to do with it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the fighting engine in MK needs to be much better.
There have been several huge threads explaining all the things that can or should be done to make it better.
There are some things I do like about the fighting in MKD.
I like the reaction to a lot of the attacks, I like the sound effects, the stylish looking strikes are awesome.
But the fight engine needs a ton of improvement.
Hopefully some low scores and a lot of complaints about the fight engine will make the MK team realize that.

EGM hasn't been worth a crap since the days of sushi-x and gamefan so who cares i don't know anyone that has bothered with a copy of this magazine in ages.

They wont be getting ether from me. The fighting engine is fine . They could always try and do it just like everyone else but then they would be just like everyone else. They also don't have to make it better than everything out there. They just have to be better than the old skool MK. It was a hit back when there was nothing to the game play.

There is nothing in the MK fighting engine that's really original.
Almost everything in it has been done before and it has been made to work better.
I'll make you a list so you see i'm not just making stuff up.
The dial combo system = The basic combo system in every game you press a series of button in a certain order do do a combo. It's just way too limited in MK. New games have a lot more options. A lot of variations, timing, ways to get out of them....
The movement= It's been done in Tekken 4 and SC2, It's the same idea, but the movement in MK is a little more restricted.
The throws= Every other game has multiple throw for every fighter even street fighter 2. In other games you have many ways to do throws and you can throw the opponent from different angles = front, side, back, crouching, floored. In other games you can escape throws, Paul in Tekken4 can reverse a throw = the ultimate tackle.
Jump kicks= It has been done in every fighter, but in DOA3, it's been done in a way that you can link a lot of extra attacks to it. I wish the Jump kicks worked like in the 2D MK's so we could do some old style combos.
The quick step= It's basically the same as in SC2.
The back dash= It's in every fighting game now days. But other games have it so you can dash forward, crouch dash, roll in, dash to the side, jump to the side, Do back flips.
Weapon and hand combat at the same time is original to MK I think= I think that was one of the best ideas they had.
MK can take a lot of these ideas and improve on them, or make them work differently for MK while keeping the same idea. Which would make the fighting in MK better, flashier and more interesting overall.
There are a ton of things that the MK team can do to make the fighting better, whether it has been done in other games or not is irrelevant. The point is to make the fighting in MK the best it can be, not just better than the old MK games.
If taking some ideas and adapting them to make a better fighting engine, which will and has happened all ready, then do it.
They don't have to copy another game exactly, some ideas are just good ideas that make game play better.
something original could be to have a big emphasis on the projectiles, and how they can be used during combat. Have a lot more options for that.
Example of basic ideas that can be taken from other games.
Multiple throws, not just one.
Not having a pre set number of hits for juggles
being able to hit or throw the opponent from the side, back while on the floor, while crouched.
Flashy looking reversals, not just everybody with the same punch.
Better design for breaking combos
Blockable combos
there are a lot of other things like that that would make the game play in MK Way better.
They have to think out side the box, expand on things. They are still keeping the game too close to the 2D style which is limiting them tremendously.

Wow... that's just way to much drama for me.... who takes stock in reviews anyway? Just rent a game if you're so curious if it's good or not.. if you like it, buy it... if it seems like you can beat it in three days, then do that and don't buy it... simple if you ask me.

Most of what your talking about is just apearence. The break IS shallow and fluffy. Other than that most of your list is just better quality animations. That has nothing to do with a fighting engine works just how the game looks. I would have to totaly totaly dissagre with the game being stuck in a 2D format. Side steping and overall positioning is very important. Especaly with all the new hazards. You are constantly moveing in all directions to gain the best postion. It may not be as important as say soul calibur but MK has other things going for it that soul calibur doesn't have. If you want to play a 3D game that truly is stuck in 2D go play Fighting Vipers2
Asthetics arent the same as gameplay. The throws were horribly unrealistic in MK:DA but they fixed that in this version. They made huge changes in both games to the MK line. Hopfully they will continue to improve as time goes on. Truthfuly I would be worried if they start messing with things. They could easly do more harm than good.
I do have to say the break system is a gimmik that needs to be retooled. Countering attacks should be about skill not about how many icons you have left.

When I say stuck in 2D, I'm talking about the fighting engine in general, not the 3D movement.
Just don't look at the fact that you can move in 3D, and just look at the way the characters fight. They are so limited that it looks like a 2D game.

Uhh, bleed? Are you sure you're playing the same game as the rest of us?
MK's new fighing engine is COMPLETELY original, man. I don't know of ANY other game out there that even utilizes a similar system (well, except maybe Tao Feng, but that game was horrible).
If you've ever played Deadly Alliance, then you'd have noticed at least 2 fighting sttyles that utilizes throws as moves (Hsu Hao's Wrestling, and Jax's Aikido), so multiple throws ain't an issue. Besides, having multiple throws for each character, anyway, would slow thiings down even more, and pose near-impossible to implement correctly (it's a FIGHTING game; I doubt many players would be focused on throwing the opponent than kicking the crap out of them).
They tried the reversals in Deadly Alliance, and it didn't work out as well as they planned, so they scrapped it. Stop bitching about something that isn't there, anymore.
Blockable combos? Uhhh, combos in this game CAN be blocked, man, and not just at the beginning. there are many combos out there with lag time in the middle that can be utilized to block the rest of it.
"being able to hit or throw the opponent from the side, back while on the floor, while crouched." Been there, done that. This isn't Tekken, man, it's Mortal Kombat. Get used to it
Set number of hits for juggles? Isn't that what the pop-up moves are for? To bounce your opponent back up after a juggle?
And, finally, the 3D movement they have is already adequate for the game, and there are TONS of moves that knock your opponent into the foreground or backround.
Personally, it looks like you're just trying to transform Mortal Kombat into another generic fighter like all the rest. Don't, please. It's perfect how it is; it doesn't need to 'borrow' anything from other fighting games to 'improve' it.

Is that because all the moves are strictly forward strikes? Instead of say Soul Calibur where there are moves that hit from side to side not just on a forward plane. Where you can move out of the way and strike the other player. The only moves like that I can think of in MKD are sub-zero's second double palm strike and Sujinko's sidestep finger strike. Some of the weapon strikes. Quan Chi was a bitch to try and sidestep in MKDA,

SynjoDeonecros ??????
Please read my post again carefully, thanks.
To FireMonksPain
No I'm saying it's like a 2D game because of the small number of moves and the very limited amount of options you have for them.
Like in a 2D game.
All the people and magazines saying the same thing about the fighting engine is not a coincidence, and it's not because they are haters either. It's a serious critique that a lot of people feel would make the game better.

I'm sorry, I can tell you're trying really hard to defend MK and all but it just seems like you don't have a grasp of the technicalities of fighting games, when you're counter-argueing it seems you're misunderstanding a lot of what Bleed is saying.
As for the thread, what's up with EGM's review????
Simple, they reviewed it for what it is, a fighting game.
That means all the stories, all the fatalities, all the gore + blood mean nothing if the core gameplay of the fighter isn't up to todays standards.
The new MK's limitations, eg. Dial-a-combo's and such were given the excuse that Deadly Alliance was the first go at a True 3D MK, but with the second attempt two pointless mini-games have been added along with one mode that had potential, had things promised for it but failed to deliver.
speaking for a fighting game fan's point of view, Deception, for a sequel as it as a stand alone game isn't good enough AS A FIGHTER.
The things that appeal to MK fans will no doubt make them think that it's the best thing since sliced bread, but that's not what the other 90% of people who play fighting games want, they want a solid fighting game.
The other reviews, gamespot + ign etc. are based on the idea that MK:Deception is a 3D version of Midway Arcade Treasures, which is why it got such a high mark with those.

its there opinion, i can see why people dont like the new mortal kombat games. its not that deep of a fighting game, plus its completely unbalanced. i do agree that the people at midway come up with something like a move for a character and just add it in not thinking that it will affect the games balance. If midway made a REALLY great, classic fighting game it would get amazing ratings from EGM. now then, please tell me this. was DOA Ultimate reviewed and was metal gear solid 3 reviewed and what was game of the month. oh, and how was the halo 2 coverage.

I have no problem with someone's opinion... but, honestly, do we have to read a review by someone who didn't like the game the new one was based off of? Get someone new. Also, I am an AVID fighting game fan; I own and love Soul Calibur II, Viruta Fighter 4:EVO, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Tekken 3 & 4, Dead or Alive, Street Fighter, Guilty Gear... even the oft-forgotten Bloody Roar and Battle Arena Toshinden series. But, there's a reason I'm on the MORTAL KOMBAT forum, and NOT the other series' forums. I love MK. Why? Part gore, part gameplay, part characters, part story, part extras, part atmosphere, part music, part graphics, part level design... ALL MK. It's almost cool to hate the series, as EGM bluntly boasts, but MK is still hardcore gaming with a better-than-average, nay, a good fighter and a great game series. How many movies did Street Fighter spawn? One. MK? Two. Tekken? Virtua Figher? Soul Calibur? MK is by far the most influential fighting game ever conceived, I'd say even more so than Street Fighter. I'm an MK fan and always will be. IMO, MK:D is better than Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter, and all others. Maybe there never be a year I don't hear those great words: "Fatality!"

With 4 attack buttons x 3 styles + various directional combonations the move list per person is a fair amount higher than your average 2D game. Sure its not Virtua Fighter, but At a certian point more moves are just more moves. You end up with a handful you actualy use and the rest sort of just sit there. Then you also tend to have smaller numbers of people. With a cast as large as the MK universe making a game with as few people as Virtual Fighter would turn off lots of old skool fans.
Midway had some hard choices to make with the MK line. After MK4 hit the streets the MK name wasn't worth much anymore. It was a truly shallow game to end a fading light on the fighting game landscape. They had to revolutionalize the series without turning off its original fan base. Mortal Kombat was never about good gameplay. It was about being simply entertaining. While serious fighters were playing street fighter the casual gamer was playing MK for kicks. If they made it into the next Virtua Fighter, Mk probably would have died at 5. They had to make a game that was a good fighter to play without it betraying its past. I think they did a solid job on that one.
Virtua Fighter 4 is my all time fav 3D fighter. It has more to it than I will ever be able to fully master. That being said, the one is enough. I don't need another game like that. It pleases me to know there is a game out there that offers a satisfying amount of depth and has loads of flashy entertaining extras to enjoy.
Of course maybe I'm just biased for 2D games. I grew up on them. I'm even making one. I'm not just saying that. I am. its not much yet but its here
http://members.gamedev.net/rabid-bunny/lorehome.htm
If anyone cares.

Unfortunately, fanboys who will defend a peice of crap on a stick within an XBOX dvd case will keep MK from being what it should be.
If you keep defending it, it will never get better.
Remember when we all got pissed about Blaze and Mokap? We sounded up, and they fixed it. Even if it is just Kang and Raiden to be unlocked, they are MUCH better characters than Blaze and Mokap.
If we all band together and demand a REAL fighting engine, then we will get one.