"With today's low voter turnout, not voting actually makes me more of an american."

Seriously though, probably Nader. Neither Bush nor Kerry can be trusted. I'm not really a politically minded guy, but it seems to me that this election comes down to picking the lesser of two evils.

bush.kerry looks like he is going to kick the bucket on his first week in the white house
old man looks like it

OKAY let's try to make this discussion a little more personable. If Hillary Clinton runs in 2008, does anyone think we have a real possibility of having a woman president?

women are emotionally unstable creatures and i say that with all confidence. my apologies to any ladies i may have offended 'cause ya know i love ya anyways. but the fact of the matter is that men would be better suited to run an entire country no matter how shovenistic(sp?) that may sound. women tend to make decisions based off of their emotions whereas a male is more inclined to think logically.....though at this point, Bush doesn't seem to be setting a prime example. for those of you who haven't seen Farenheit911, go see it. you may find this funny, i know i did, but Bush really is...an idiot! you would think that tabloids and magazines exaggerate things but...no. the movie shows it plainly. Bush really is that stupid. my favorite Bush quote: "...Fool me once......shame on you.........you won't fool me again!"

Sojaofcrst Wrote: women are emotionally unstable creatures and i say that with all confidence. my apologies to any ladies i may have offended 'cause ya know i love ya anyways. but the fact of the matter is that men would be better suited to run an entire country no matter how shovenistic(sp?) that may sound. women tend to make descisons based off of their emotions whereas a male is more inclined to think logically.....though at this point, Bush doesn't seem to be setting a prime example. for those of you who haven't seen Farenheit911, go see it. you may find this funny, i know i did, but Bush really is...an idiot! you would think that tabloids and magazines exaggerate things but...no. the movie shows it plainly. Bush really is that stupid. my favorite Bush quote: "...Fool me once......shame on you.........you won't fool me again!"

chauvenist*

It's very unfair to say that women make decisions based on their emotions. You'll find that a large group of people such as about half the global population can rarely be fit into one sole category.

Not to mention, a woman who is determined and dedicated enough to have a chance at the presidency is not only AS logical and levelheaded as her male counterpart, but moreso because she also has to overcome the general stigma against women in positions of power.

People like you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

deadlyscorpoin-zero Wrote: bush.kerry looks like he is going to kick the bucket on his first week in the white house old man looks like it

I decided to give the Michael Moore campaign $9.50 of my hard-earned money last night, and actually went to see Fahrenheit 9/11. Now I need to get this all off my chest ...

To quote from Five Iron Frenzy's "Four-Fifty-One" (a title, which some of you may know, is compliment to the song "Fahrenheit", which in combination is a compliment to Ray Bradbury's book, "Fahrenheit 451", which is used to title Michael Moore's film, "Fahrenheit 9/11". Whew.)

Walk no mile,
I'm sick and tired,
of all the cowards at the radio station.
No cathartic plot to thicken,
to quote the vernacular,
I'd say that you're chicken.

Michael Moore is a chicken. This film disgusts me. While it is very moving, and there are images that are quite disturbing, and quotes that are heart-wrenching ... It is moving, disturbing, and heart-wrenching for all of the wrong reasons. What Michael Moore has done is created an image of not only Bush, but of the entire American people, that is aloof, money hungry, and without foundation. Moore's entire agenda with this film is to convince and "inform" the audience of the White House's negligence in the Bush administration. However, he pushes this agenda by distorting facts, telling half-truths, and making people guilty by association (which we know from Matthew 7:15 is not the correct thing to do). To illustrate:

Moore accuses President Bush of being responsible for September 11, because he and many other members of the country's leadership have a friendly and ongoing relationship with the Bin Laden family and with Saudia Arabia. Some of these relationships extend into the business world, which Moore claims to be motivation for the White House to appreciate the terrorist attacks, possibly supporting them (Saudia Arabia and the Bin Laden's will funnel more money into the U.S. if we let the terrorism continue, and also allow for more military contracts for Dick Cheney's companies). What Moore fails to realize is that Saudia Arabia and the Bin Laden family are not terrorists, nor do they hold any connections to the terrorist groups. The truth is Osama Bin Laden and the extremist Saudia Arabians that support him are bad seeds who have chosen to uphold a militantly distorted view of the truth, causing the life of many innocent people (re: September 11) that is not supported by any members of the White House, Bin Laden family, or Saudia Arabia. Just because Osama Bin Laden hates America, we shouldn't expect President Bush to start hating his third cousin, should we? It's similar saying the U.S. should deport Bill Gates because his mom's cousin was a terrorist (that's a ficitonal scenario, by the way. I made it up purely for illustration.)

Additionally, Moore devotes a good amount of his time to a woman who lost her son in one of the Blackhawk attacks. Extended shots of her crying, getting angry, and reading her son's notes are used. Now, I don't like war. And any loss of life is tragic; my heart goes out to all of the people who have lost loved ones in the Middle East. But do not blame this loss on any American. Do not derive that we are at war because somehow America is greedy. We were attacked. All intelligence pointed towards future attacks, and hidden weapons. Regardless if we are attacked again or if we find WMD's, American soil has been attacked and threatened. If we want to let our land be destroyed, then do not confront these threats. But if you want freedom and want innocent lives around the world to be saved, then we must uproot the tyrants who seek to destroy. Yes it costs many innocent lives, American and Iraqi, but many more lives are being saved and the loss is the fault of those who attack in the name of terrorism. It all illustrates how fickle we are as Americans. When 9/11 happened, we get mad at the White House because "we did nothing" to prevent the attack. But when we go to Iraq to prevent more attacks, America screams at the President, calling him "a warmonger" and "a new age Hitler". Do you see the contradiction? I sure do ... and Moore's film is the biggest example of this contradiction.

Additionally, Moore resorts to the cheap tactic of picking out President Bush's speaking mistakes and/or stuttering. Certainly it can be humorous when someone slips on their words, but to constantly pick them apart for it is just silly. A President isn't bad because he messes up a few words; honestly if any of us had cameras on our faces as much as Bush does, we'd surely catch a ton of slip-ups.

Michael Moore has created his own "cathartic plot to thicken", and the results are destructive to the American people. It makes me even more eager to pray for the President, and to vote come election day.

Oh, and I'll be voting for Bush. There is much more to this country than how much money lines my pockets after a tax return, and Bush supports those things I am passionate about (pro-life, pro-family, pro-faith). Kerry does not.

He's just pointing out more reasons for the rest of the world to hate us...

Sojaofcrst Wrote: my favorite Bush quote: "...Fool me once......shame on you.........you won't fool me again!"

That's my favorite Dubya quote too. I've seen Farenheit 9/11, but I'd heard that quote several months earlier on a website.

And SkeletonOfSociety, Disney and Nazis aren't as far apart as you may think. In the 50s, Disney made cartoons about technological developments, including a pro-nuclear power cartoon called "Our Friend the Atom," and a former Nazi sympathiser was involved with that.

Anyway, I think Bush is a greedy, lying idiot. Also, a psychologist wrote a book analyzing some of the things Bush has said and done, as well as some things White House aides have said about him, and concluded that, in serious psychological terms, Bush is a delusional, paranoid, sadistic megalomaniac, as well as an untreated alcoholic. Even a Republican colleague of the psychologist who wrote the book agrees that Bush is in no condition, psychologically, to run the country.

now secondgen knows what its like to argue politics with an irrational idiot just as i did earlier in the thread. Where did you get the most moronic idea that Bush got his money from Hitler. Bush got his money from Hitler!? I can understand if you dont like Bush or even hate Bush, but saying things like that is just plain stupid. If I ever said anything like that I would take my dumb ass outside and put a bullet in my head.

Hyuga: Yes you somewhat proved me wrong on the camps thing; however, those aren't camps and just one ethnicity is not thrown in because they are that ethnicity. That was a bunch of jackass soldiers abusing prisoners which I don't agree with but its a different thing.

Well said Kintaro.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Moore accuses President Bush of being responsible for September 11, because he and many other members of the country's leadership have a friendly and ongoing relationship with the Bin Laden family and with Saudia Arabia. Some of these relationships extend into the business world, which Moore claims to be motivation for the White House to appreciate the terrorist attacks, possibly supporting them (Saudia Arabia and the Bin Laden's will funnel more money into the U.S. if we let the terrorism continue, and also allow for more military contracts for Dick Cheney's companies). What Moore fails to realize is that Saudia Arabia and the Bin Laden family are not terrorists, nor do they hold any connections to the terrorist groups. The truth is Osama Bin Laden and the extremist Saudia Arabians that support him are bad seeds who have chosen to uphold a militantly distorted view of the truth, causing the life of many innocent people (re: September 11) that is not supported by any members of the White House, Bin Laden family, or Saudia Arabia. Just because Osama Bin Laden hates America, we shouldn't expect President Bush to start hating his third cousin, should we? It's similar saying the U.S. should deport Bill Gates because his mom's cousin was a terrorist (that's a ficitonal scenario, by the way. I made it up purely for illustration.) Additionally, Moore devotes a good amount of his time to a woman who lost her son in one of the Blackhawk attacks. Extended shots of her crying, getting angry, and reading her son's notes are used. Now, I don't like war. And any loss of life is tragic; my heart goes out to all of the people who have lost loved ones in the Middle East. But do not blame this loss on any American. Do not derive that we are at war because somehow America is greedy. We were attacked. All intelligence pointed towards future attacks, and hidden weapons. Regardless if we are attacked again or if we find WMD's, American soil has been attacked and threatened. If we want to let our land be destroyed, then do not confront these threats. But if you want freedom and want innocent lives around the world to be saved, then we must uproot the tyrants who seek to destroy. Yes it costs many innocent lives, American and Iraqi, but many more lives are being saved and the loss is the fault of those who attack in the name of terrorism. It all illustrates how fickle we are as Americans. When 9/11 happened, we get mad at the White House because "we did nothing" to prevent the attack. But when we go to Iraq to prevent more attacks, America screams at the President, calling him "a warmonger" and "a new age Hitler". Do you see the contradiction? I sure do ... and Moore's film is the biggest example of this contradiction.

I don't think it's fair to say that Moore accuses Bush of being directly responsible for 9/11, but rather that his Saudi ties and relationships are a conflict of interests with his role as president and his duty of protecting the American people. And regarding guilt by asssociation, it's not as simple as that. Both the Saudi royal family and the Bin Laden family are very large, and also very fractured. There are members of each family who fund terrorism, and basically, it's probably not a good idea for Bush, or any American, to get involved with these people.

Regarding Iraq, I think it's definitely a good thing we got Saddam out of power, but the argument there is that Bush lied about the underlying reasons we invaded Iraq. From what I've heard, we didn't have enough evidence of Iraqi WMDs or links to terrorism to justify war. If we want to prevent future terrorist attacks, why did Bush say that it doesn't really matter that we haven't found Osama? There are only just so many fronts on which you can fight a war; if Osama was behind the attacks on 9/11, and can be expected to arrange more attacks, why aren't we committing as many troops as possible to finding him? Was there ever any intelligence suggesting that he was hiding in Iraq? And why are we acting like Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with this, when Osama is Saudi, as were 15 of the 19 hijackers? I'm not saying we should have gone to war with Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq, but we should be asking a lot more questions over there.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: (Bush supports those things I am passionate about (pro-life, pro-family, pro-faith). Kerry does not.

I don't know how someone can be pro-life, if he was the one who installed an express lane for his state's capitol punishment. I know the term refers to abortion, but with all the people who are dead due to dicision of GW, I don't think he's pro-life because he wants to be, I think he's pro-life because of what his religion tells him to be.

XcarnageX Wrote: Sojaofcrst Wrote: my favorite Bush quote: "...Fool me once......shame on you.........you won't fool me again!" That's my favorite Dubya quote too. I've seen Farenheit 9/11, but I'd heard that quote several months earlier on a website. And SkeletonOfSociety, Disney and Nazis aren't as far apart as you may think. In the 50s, Disney made cartoons about technological developments, including a pro-nuclear power cartoon called "Our Friend the Atom," and a former Nazi sympathiser was involved with that. Anyway, I think Bush is a greedy, lying idiot. Also, a psychologist wrote a book analyzing some of the things Bush has said and done, as well as some things White House aides have said about him, and concluded that, in serious psychological terms, Bush is a delusional, paranoid, sadistic megalomaniac, as well as an untreated alcoholic. Even a Republican colleague of the psychologist who wrote the book agrees that Bush is in no condition, psychologically, to run the country.

I knew about the old cartoon "Our Friend the Atom", but I'm refering to the Disney company as of today, not circa 1950.

Im sorry about the stuff I said in my thread guys...I need to learn to respect other peoples opinions. And I want you to atleast know that I am not the stupid pro-Republican 100% Patriotic American type or I wouldnt use my ancestry for my nationality flag would I? I just think Bush is doing the best he can...although some stuff i dont agree with.

And I was about tear a new one into you for being racist against Hispanic peoples. Bigot.

Raining_Smoke Wrote: Im sorry about the stuff I said in my thread guys...I need to learn to respect other peoples opinions. And I want you to atleast know that I am not the stupid pro-Republican 100% Patriotic American type or I wouldnt use my ancestry for my nationality flag would I? I just think Bush is doing the best he can...although some stuff i dont agree with.

But, onto the thread.

I look at it in parable form:
I would rather vote for one of 2 overeducated monkeys...

Hmmm no wait How about:
I would vote for the one that showed care for minorities...

Hmm let's try:
I would vote for the one that could effectively bring bills for the better of every...

Hmm bills are proposed and made by congress How about:
I'll vote for the prettiest... er...

I'll find a parable dammit:
I'll vote for the one that cares... Might as well stop right there.

Honestly I couldn't care less. In this society I live in ND which has two electoral votes. The electoral seats in my state are determined by 1 from the State Senate and 1 by the State House. They are also allowed to vote whichever way they choose. Since all election are actually decided by an electoral vote --Florida demands that their college has to vote for the majority people's vote, thus the problems-- It means that my vote can Not Matter if the Electorates vote opposite of what I want.

Another words: there are guys over my head, my vote actually doesn't matter, and I would spend my time better pissing in the wind.

If my vote had actually mattered I would look at the candidates in this manner:
1) Both of them are total idiots with no hope of redeeming that quality.
2) Keeping Bush in charge means more war, but getting him out of it makes a person wonder what he will do when nobody is looking.
3) Kerry has a huge head, and George looks like a monkey.
4) George provides his own verbal comic relief, Kerry presents a physical form of comedy.

This is a very close comparison I'll admit it wouldn't be easy to decide. So I use this as a tie-breaker:
George perpetuates fear through the "more terrorism" campaign. Like what happened in Oklahoma and the WTC 8 years prior to the last bombing didn't matter.

Kerry comesback though with a stunning arguement to all people though. His campaign is quite simple. All he as to do is go around saying "I'm not Bush." So far it has been successful.

So in the end I would give my vote to Kerry, because I could stand for a little stability.

-I'm not Bush

Mobster4Christ Wrote: I decided to give the Michael Moore campaign $9.50 of my hard-earned money last night, and actually went to see Fahrenheit 9/11. Now I need to get this all off my chest ... To quote from Five Iron Frenzy's "Four-Fifty-One" (a title, which some of you may know, is compliment to the song "Fahrenheit", which in combination is a compliment to Ray Bradbury's book, "Fahrenheit 451", which is used to title Michael Moore's film, "Fahrenheit 9/11". Whew.) Walk no mile, I'm sick and tired, of all the cowards at the radio station. No cathartic plot to thicken, to quote the vernacular, I'd say that you're chicken. Michael Moore is a chicken. This film disgusts me. While it is very moving, and there are images that are quite disturbing, and quotes that are heart-wrenching ... It is moving, disturbing, and heart-wrenching for all of the wrong reasons. What Michael Moore has done is created an image of not only Bush, but of the entire American people, that is aloof, money hungry, and without foundation. Moore's entire agenda with this film is to convince and "inform" the audience of the White House's negligence in the Bush administration. However, he pushes this agenda by distorting facts, telling half-truths, and making people guilty by association (which we know from Matthew 7:15 is not the correct thing to do). To illustrate: Moore accuses President Bush of being responsible for September 11, because he and many other members of the country's leadership have a friendly and ongoing relationship with the Bin Laden family and with Saudia Arabia. Some of these relationships extend into the business world, which Moore claims to be motivation for the White House to appreciate the terrorist attacks, possibly supporting them (Saudia Arabia and the Bin Laden's will funnel more money into the U.S. if we let the terrorism continue, and also allow for more military contracts for Dick Cheney's companies). What Moore fails to realize is that Saudia Arabia and the Bin Laden family are not terrorists, nor do they hold any connections to the terrorist groups. The truth is Osama Bin Laden and the extremist Saudia Arabians that support him are bad seeds who have chosen to uphold a militantly distorted view of the truth, causing the life of many innocent people (re: September 11) that is not supported by any members of the White House, Bin Laden family, or Saudia Arabia. Just because Osama Bin Laden hates America, we shouldn't expect President Bush to start hating his third cousin, should we? It's similar saying the U.S. should deport Bill Gates because his mom's cousin was a terrorist (that's a ficitonal scenario, by the way. I made it up purely for illustration.) Additionally, Moore devotes a good amount of his time to a woman who lost her son in one of the Blackhawk attacks. Extended shots of her crying, getting angry, and reading her son's notes are used. Now, I don't like war. And any loss of life is tragic; my heart goes out to all of the people who have lost loved ones in the Middle East. But do not blame this loss on any American. Do not derive that we are at war because somehow America is greedy. We were attacked. All intelligence pointed towards future attacks, and hidden weapons. Regardless if we are attacked again or if we find WMD's, American soil has been attacked and threatened. If we want to let our land be destroyed, then do not confront these threats. But if you want freedom and want innocent lives around the world to be saved, then we must uproot the tyrants who seek to destroy. Yes it costs many innocent lives, American and Iraqi, but many more lives are being saved and the loss is the fault of those who attack in the name of terrorism. It all illustrates how fickle we are as Americans. When 9/11 happened, we get mad at the White House because "we did nothing" to prevent the attack. But when we go to Iraq to prevent more attacks, America screams at the President, calling him "a warmonger" and "a new age Hitler". Do you see the contradiction? I sure do ... and Moore's film is the biggest example of this contradiction. Additionally, Moore resorts to the cheap tactic of picking out President Bush's speaking mistakes and/or stuttering. Certainly it can be humorous when someone slips on their words, but to constantly pick them apart for it is just silly. A President isn't bad because he messes up a few words; honestly if any of us had cameras on our faces as much as Bush does, we'd surely catch a ton of slip-ups. Michael Moore has created his own "cathartic plot to thicken", and the results are destructive to the American people. It makes me even more eager to pray for the President, and to vote come election day. Oh, and I'll be voting for Bush. There is much more to this country than how much money lines my pockets after a tax return, and Bush supports those things I am passionate about (pro-life, pro-family, pro-faith). Kerry does not.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: I decided to give the Michael Moore campaign $9.50 of my hard-earned money last night, and actually went to see Fahrenheit 9/11. Now I need to get this all off my chest ... To quote from Five Iron Frenzy's "Four-Fifty-One" (a title, which some of you may know, is compliment to the song "Fahrenheit", which in combination is a compliment to Ray Bradbury's book, "Fahrenheit 451", which is used to title Michael Moore's film, "Fahrenheit 9/11". Whew.) Walk no mile, I'm sick and tired, of all the cowards at the radio station. No cathartic plot to thicken, to quote the vernacular, I'd say that you're chicken. Michael Moore is a chicken. This film disgusts me. While it is very moving, and there are images that are quite disturbing, and quotes that are heart-wrenching ... It is moving, disturbing, and heart-wrenching for all of the wrong reasons. What Michael Moore has done is created an image of not only Bush, but of the entire American people, that is aloof, money hungry, and without foundation. Moore's entire agenda with this film is to convince and "inform" the audience of the White House's negligence in the Bush administration. However, he pushes this agenda by distorting facts, telling half-truths, and making people guilty by association (which we know from Matthew 7:15 is not the correct thing to do). To illustrate:

I need to interject here; you don’t know Moore’s agenda. Don’t pretend to, it defeats your argument.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Moore accuses President Bush of being responsible for September 11, because he and many other members of the country's leadership have a friendly and ongoing relationship with the Bin Laden family and with Saudi Arabia.

WRONG! He does not accuse bush of being responsible. He accuses him of not doing anything about it. Very different. This early in your rebuttal to the movie, you are the one who is distorting facts and telling half truths.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Some of these relationships extend into the business world, which Moore claims to be motivation for the White House to appreciate the terrorist attacks, possibly supporting them (Saudi Arabia and the Bin Laden's will funnel more money into the U.S. if we let the terrorism continue, and also allow for more military contracts for Dick Cheney's companies).

Another half-truth on your part M4C, it is implied that this is motivation for the Bushes, but it is implied. Nothing on this is claimed to be any more than common sense. If one guy pays you $100 and another guy pays you $1,000, then there is a chance you might—MIGHT—be biased to the guy paying you more.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: What Moore fails to realize is that Saudi Arabia and the Bin Laden family are not terrorists, nor do they hold any connections to the terrorist groups.

Wow, M4C, you say that very matter-of-a-fact’ly. Michael Moore talks about holding the Bin Ladens for questioning, as they have been in contact with Bin Laden more recently than republicans care to admit. Considering our government held so many others because of their race and religion, it should not have been a problem to hold the Bin Ladens .except wait, that’s right, they’re rich! Oh and when you say Saudi Arabia is not a terrorist, while I must agree, most terrorists I know are living creatures. And we all know that Saudi Arabia is not a living entity of any sort. And not all people from that place (Saudi Arabia) are terrorists but many are, including over half the attackers from 9/11.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: The truth is Osama Bin Laden and the extremist Saudi Arabians that support him are bad seeds who have chosen to uphold a militantly distorted view of the truth, causing the life of many innocent people (re: September 11) that is not supported by any members of the White House, Bin Laden family, or Saudi Arabia.

Oh I thought you might choose this path. Bad Seeds? That’s the easy way out. That’s the easy answer. But it’s not true. The truth is American hate in the Middle East is on the rise. We are afraid to say that the US is partially responsible for our reputation. We think that means we are saying 9/11 is America’s fault .it some ways it is! But not really, because everyone is responsible for their own actions. But instead of continuing to talk about Bad Seeds let’s talk about making peace with the middle east.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Just because Osama Bin Laden hates America, we shouldn't expect President Bush to start hating his third cousin, should we? It's similar saying the U.S. should deport Bill Gates because his mom's cousin was a terrorist (that's a fictional scenario, by the way. I made it up purely for illustration.)

??? They did send them out of the country. That is very similar to what really happened!

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Additionally, Moore devotes a good amount of his time to a woman who lost her son in one of the Blackhawk attacks. Extended shots of her crying, getting angry, and reading her son's notes are used. Now, I don't like war. And any loss of life is tragic; my heart goes out to all of the people who have lost loved ones in the Middle East.

I find it interesting that you can’t address her without including others. How compassionate of you.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: But do not blame this loss on any American. Do not derive that we are at war because somehow America is greedy. We were attacked.

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Iraq did not attack us! This is a blatant lie, and it was deliberate M4C, shame on you! If you feel the need to lie and not be honest than don’t post at all!

Mobster4Christ Wrote: All intelligence pointed towards future attacks, and hidden weapons.

Half-truths, lies, and more!
You don’t know all intelligence, no body does. And there is much intelligence pointing to the opposite.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Regardless if we are attacked again or if we find WMD's, American soil has been attacked and threatened.

It was attached by Osama Bin Laden, not Iraq. You can keep lying to your self but many reports confirm FUCK bush himself confirms there was bad intelligence.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: If we want to let our land be destroyed, then do not confront these threats.

Oh how fucking noble of you, righteous sir. Where do I begin?
1. Before killing innocent people, I would confirm the threat. Bush was against that.
2. Don’t talk about what the fuck we should do, sign your ass up for the military and tell me how that works out for you. Typical republican bullshit trying to run other peoples lives. Go ahead, go be macho and kill some women and children! Get that blood stained on your SOUL, fight another rich man’s war and go to hell for it! Then talk to me!
3. Don’t assume you can predict our future. You know about as much of America’s future as a spider on the wall.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: But if you want freedom and want innocent lives around the world to be saved, then we must uproot the tyrants who seek to destroy.

Pick and choose, ehh? Not Bin Laden but Sadam. Not Kim Jong but Sadam. Ignore the fact that we are profiting from the deaths of our brothers and sisters who died on 9/11.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Yes it costs many innocent lives, American and Iraqi,

I again find it funny that you need to add in American lives to feel comfortable with that. Just say innocent Iraqis are being killed by Americans. Just chew on that thought alone for a while.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: but many more lives are being saved and the loss is the fault of those who attack in the name of terrorism.

Again you are speaking in a matter-of-a-fact way. You have no evidence that more lives are being saved. In fact I think you only say it to attempt to be right. Another republican trait what’ya know?

Mobster4Christ Wrote: It all illustrates how fickle we are as Americans.

Fuck off, then speak for your self. I’m not fickle, I’m very consistent (consistently right as well) on my beliefs.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: When 9/11 happened, we get mad at the White House because "we did nothing" to prevent the attack. But when we go to Iraq to prevent more attacks, America screams at the President, calling him "a warmonger" and "a new age Hitler". Do you see the contradiction? I sure do ... and Moore's film is the biggest example of this contradiction.

I see a difference. There was specific evidence that 9/11 would happen. There was none with Iraq. Nope, not a contradiction, on Moore’s part anyway.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Additionally, Moore resorts to the cheap tactic of picking out President Bush's speaking mistakes and/or stuttering.

Just like you wouldn’t want a stupid stuttering doctor, we don’t want a stupid stuttering president.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Certainly, it can be humorous when someone slips on their words, but to constantly pick them apart for it is just silly.

Silly or a cheap trick very different. Oh wait, it’s neither.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: A President isn't bad because he messes up a few words; honestly if any of us had cameras on our faces as much as Bush does, we'd surely catch a ton of slip-ups.

You’re right it happens to every president no wait, it doesn’t.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Michael Moore has created his own "cathartic plot to thicken", and the results are destructive to the American people.

If by destructive you mean it counters the propaganda that Bush’s goons put out then maybe .

Mobster4Christ Wrote: It makes me even more eager to pray for the President, and to vote come election day.

Oh does it make you want to pray? Truth hurts doesn’t it? You have failed to point out anything that Moore said which wasn’t true. And you have managed to spin things in a very convenient way. Your ass should be praying for redemption as you sit by and let this man murder the innocent.
I’m sure knowing the election was thrown in his favor last election excites you, it probably gets your sick ass off. Don’t hide behind religion like he does, it is transparent. Bush worships something dark, it’s not God, it’s greed. And that greed is the cause of many deaths.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: Oh, and I'll be voting for Bush.

Then start praying for redemption because judging from your comments you are not just one of his brainwashed goons, you are one of the agents of hate and spin and corruption, you know what Bush is and you vote for him. That is up there with rape, murder, and maybe worse.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: There is much more to this country than how much money lines my pockets after a tax return

Yes, this country is about people, not corporations, that is what I’ve been telling you.

Mobster4Christ Wrote: , and Bush supports those things I am passionate about (pro-life, pro-family, pro-faith). Kerry does not.

Let’s examine this statement. This is the most outrageous and dangerous lie that I’ve known you to spew.

Bush is pro-life:
You mean to say he doesn’t support abortion, this is true but that doesn’t justify saying a murder is pro life. That, American enemy, is a contradictions.

Bush is pro-family:
Oh you mean families that are well to-do? He does give them tax breaks. He gives CEO’s money back by exporting jobs to other countries. He lays off the poor, tries to take their ot pay away, he tries to prevent them from getting education. He supports some families, of course not those of black people that would like to exercise their right to vote. He supports killing families in other countries and supports sending our troops to fight “a war about nothing!” He supports families unless they’re gay. Or not if they are of a different class, religion, race, etc.
He is far from pro-family. Edit: Don't even get me started on him supporting corporate wellfare and cutting individual...

He is pro-faith:
Hmm only if it is his faith and only if it is for his cause. He doesn’t worship God, man. He has faith in his supply of money.

I suspect you lean toward Bush because of his party. There are many republicans better suited to run the country than Bush. Don’t be like that whore Brittney Spears and blindly support a man because of his party. His lack of republican contenders is very Hitler-esq. The your with him or against him debate, the arrogance. I could go on. This man’s hands are filled with blood. He is evil. If a Christian I were, I might think he was the anti Christ. Maybe with your pledge to a murder we should change your name to M4A-C?

In conclusion you’ve failed to have a valid criticism of the movie, aside from not liking it. Don’t worry I’ve been setting people straight all over the internet about this. You are wrong. Am I saying vote for Kerry? No. But voting for a president with this man (I use the term loosely)’s record is un-American. It’s not patriotic. It goes against everything we believe in.

A war about nothing???

So liberating the Iraqi people is nothing?

Catching Saddam was nothing?

Shooting up Saddams Sons was nothing?

Those are 3 majors things.YOU have to go down there and see whats really going on.I know someone who came back from Iraq.And HE HATES the way people treat the Army over here.People here take the Soliders for granted.And its sad.So your saying the soliders are dying for nothing?There dying for something.OUR FREEDOM.This is all Bill Clinton's fault.If he wasn't busy getting a blow job and looking after his job we wouldn't be in this mess we're in today.

Jesus Christ. Another chance for Drfatality to show how skilled he is in political matters. We aren't fighting for our freedom. Nothing at all was questioning our fucking freedom. Last time I checked, nobody was trying to invade us and take over.

Drfatality Wrote: There dying for something.OUR FREEDOM.

skeletonofsociety Wrote: Mobster4Christ Wrote: (Bush supports those things I am passionate about (pro-life, pro-family, pro-faith). Kerry does not.

im for all those things to but when Bush takes religion to the extreme it gets outta hand. he thinks he talks to god, he is really running a theocracy now...do u know what a theocracy is?? its a govt ran on religion, this type of govt fails 10/10 times... examples???Irag, Afganistan, Iran, and even when there was Nazi germany, have had govts tumble or are about to tumble. You know theres a senator, hes the senator of Kansas his name is Sen. Greenback, do u wana know what this prick did?? the night he won the election he actually washed the feet of another congressman...washing of the feet, DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR TO ANYONE!!! Bush is a psycho, who slowly but surely is taking away all of our rights, to think, to learn, and to freely express themselves, hes taking this all of this away and giving it to the Iraqis!!The usta-be theocratic ran Iraqis??

And do you know what the 9/11 commission found out about 9/11?? SADDAM HUSSEIN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!! Now dont get me wrong im ecstatic that he was removed from power but i think we had bigger fish to fry first!!(Bin Laden)

So in closing, vote for John Kerry because at least we will be getting back to what is most important, and give reason to our soldiers back in the sand, and thats Freedom, and thats why there is bloodshed on the constitution because our guys and girls have fought for it only for it to be taken away by a bitter George Bush and Michael Powell, so think of that when u cast ur votes on election day!

YOU FUCKING MORON- You can't liberate someone who doesn't want to be liberated! That is an oxy-fuckgin-moron! Capturing Sadam was for nothing. He posed no thread. Killing his kids? They had shit to do with it. It would be like killing Bush's daughters for something he may or may not have done.
I know people who have come back and I know people who HAVEN'T come back.
And what a typical moron republican statment to say "This is all Bill Clinton's fault." HAHA that's funny shit. I am talking about how bush did. I never said I supported Clinton so focus on Bush and his acco...um I mean failures.

Drfatality Wrote: A war about nothing??? So liberating the Iraqi people is nothing? Catching Saddam was nothing? Shooting up Saddams Sons was nothing? Those are 3 majors things.YOU have to go down there and see whats really going on.I know someone who came back from Iraq.And HE HATES the way people treat the Army over here.People here take the Soliders for granted.And its sad.So your saying the soliders are dying for nothing?There dying for something.OUR FREEDOM.This is all Bill Clinton's fault.If he wasn't busy getting a blow job and looking after his job we wouldn't be in this mess we're in today.

born-again-vampire Wrote: And what a typical moron republican statment to say "This is all Bill Clinton's fault." HAHA that's funny shit. I am talking about how bush did.

Agreed. It seems like when all the chips are down, Republicans can turn to the old 'Clinton Card'. Tho the only thing anyone can knock him for is having sex with a young lady while in charge, tho all presidents probably do.

As for Bush, all I can really say is I think it's very important to understand the link he has to not only the Bin Ladens, but also to the Middle East in general.

If the Bin Ladens really have been funding him for 25+ years, I think this is something the public should be very aware of.

Also, I don't agree with his reasons for invading Iraq. Reason being, nobody knows his reasons.

Tho I guess when the big guys get rich and the little guys gotta bust our dicks twice as hard for nothing more then we ever get, the wheels are spinning good...

also let the records show that it was a REPUBLICAN that resigned from office(NIXON) that it was a REPUBLICAN that put us into a depression(CALVIN COOLIDGE) and it was Republicans that put us into war twice in a 15 yr period!!!

Vote for Kerry and ^ will make you very very happy.

Bush killed my parents!

whoa what happened to my baby!!?!? Her body is still bangin but she looks like a straight up coke head right there...I'd still rock her tho

aaaah...she still looks good!!!

blade-tsung Wrote: whoa what happened to my baby!!?!? Her body is still bangin but she looks like a straight up coke head right there...I'd still rock her tho