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KingBellsprout
08/20/2013 09:30 PM (UTC)
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Zentile Wrote:
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
The difference is that it would have been "a great ending" had the heat been "Oh how could randy orton do this. He is so sneaky and mean. He is a heel and I shouldn't like him".

Instead it was this.... "Wow the WWE product is really bad and I am mad at the ending not because of what happened but because the predictability decreased drastically and so did the quality of the overall product."



That would be the correct answer to support your point... If it were true. It isn't true (fortunately) because you are going to continue to watch the TV shows and the PPVs. You DO want to see what they're going to do next and you are interested in seeing Bryan's rise to the top.
This is what the wrestling business is all about. Tricking the fans into getting emotional over angles. Before, fans would get angry that Ric Flair cheated to retain the world title over their hometown hero. Obviously the fans wouldn't go home and think "damn Flair got me pissed off, but that was an awesome product! Can't wait for the next show!". They'd do the same as you and complain that the quality of the product decreased drastically - even if deep down, they had loved it for the emotions it brought out and can't wait to see the next show.

Wrestling fans have become smarter, the works have changed to adapt. This angle has REAL heat, which is rare these days.



See what you said would be true if there was actual heat and if I actually cared about the angle. Thankfully I don't. I enjoy Daniel Bryan but this angle is doing nothing to keep me entertained. I tune in to shows and PPVs because I enjoy wrestling and TNA is unwatchable. Not because WWE struck entertainment gold with this angle.

I'm in no rush to see Daniel Bryan get to the top because no matter where he has been on the card he has done good. That said, not every angle has been fantastic... Such as this one.

But I mean hey. Who knows how I feel about the product I watch better than you I guess.
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Zentile
08/26/2013 06:27 PM (UTC)
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TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
The ending was terrible.


That's not "not caring". Yes, you do care, and it's crystal clear.

There's no shame in not being fully aware of what you truly feel. Hell, that's that's one of the things that makes us human. Like the example I mentioned before, of pro wrestling in the old days. The heel would win and the crowd would leave the arena LIVID and pissed off. And if you were to ask them, I'm sure they'd take your stance and say that they KNOW that they didn't like what happened, and if it was up to them, the babyface would've won and THAT's how they would be happy.
But that's just not the truth, even though they think they know it is.
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Mick-Lucifer
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08/26/2013 07:47 PM (UTC)
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KingBellsprout
08/26/2013 08:38 PM (UTC)
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Zentile Wrote:
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
The ending was terrible.


That's not "not caring". Yes, you do care, and it's crystal clear.

There's no shame in not being fully aware of what you truly feel. Hell, that's that's one of the things that makes us human. Like the example I mentioned before, of pro wrestling in the old days. The heel would win and the crowd would leave the arena LIVID and pissed off. And if you were to ask them, I'm sure they'd take your stance and say that they KNOW that they didn't like what happened, and if it was up to them, the babyface would've won and THAT's how they would be happy.
But that's just not the truth, even though they think they know it is.


Wow you must really love telling me what I think of things.


You can not care about something and still have an opinion on it. Take the VMA's for example. They were horrible from what I saw but I could care less about them because they are uninteresting. Same goes for the ending and the angle as a whole. Any other ending would have been better. The one they went with was horrible. If you really think that caring about something and having an opinion are connected 100% of the time you are just foolish.

No one is livid with Randy Orton. No one cares about Randy Orton being the "heel" in this scenario. He stood there while the Mcmahons and Triple H said all of the heel stuff on Raw. People were "livid" (if you even want to call the reaction triple h got that) at HHH saying that Daniel Bryan wasn't fit to be champion. If Randy Orton was able to not put people to sleep with his lack of promo skills, then maybe just maybe he would be able to cut a heel promo after cashing in ON HIS OWN to gather some heat. Yea the ceremony was meant to get heat on him but it failed terribly because it was portrayed that the Mcmahons and Triple H set it up. I get that they are technically heels too but them setting it up and being in the ring the whole time and doing all of the talking gives them heat, not Orton.


Again, I don't care that a face left summerslam as champion. With all the things they could have done they went with the most predictable option. You can't say they didn't. I'm not even saying that from a personal standpoint. That's my opinion on it. Not me caring. It's their product and they can do what they want with it. I didn't know I tune in solely for this angle but I guess I do since you are trying to make it seem like I do.
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Mick-Lucifer
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08/27/2013 11:36 AM (UTC)
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Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
Mark.
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m0s3pH
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08/27/2013 05:41 PM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
Mark.


Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
Everyone is a mark sometimes. Some are better at hiding it than others.


On another subject, I'd like to see AJ Styles jump to WWE, with his recent loner persona. He'd make a good tweener.
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The_Purple_Bunny
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08/27/2013 06:11 PM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
Mark.

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
Jobber.
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Zentile
08/27/2013 08:40 PM (UTC)
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TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
Zentile Wrote:
TheNinjasRock071394 Wrote:
The ending was terrible.


That's not "not caring". Yes, you do care, and it's crystal clear.

There's no shame in not being fully aware of what you truly feel. Hell, that's that's one of the things that makes us human. Like the example I mentioned before, of pro wrestling in the old days. The heel would win and the crowd would leave the arena LIVID and pissed off. And if you were to ask them, I'm sure they'd take your stance and say that they KNOW that they didn't like what happened, and if it was up to them, the babyface would've won and THAT's how they would be happy.
But that's just not the truth, even though they think they know it is.


Wow you must really love telling me what I think of things.


You can not care about something and still have an opinion on it. Take the VMA's for example. They were horrible from what I saw but I could care less about them because they are uninteresting. Same goes for the ending and the angle as a whole. Any other ending would have been better. The one they went with was horrible. If you really think that caring about something and having an opinion are connected 100% of the time you are just foolish.

No one is livid with Randy Orton. No one cares about Randy Orton being the "heel" in this scenario. He stood there while the Mcmahons and Triple H said all of the heel stuff on Raw. People were "livid" (if you even want to call the reaction triple h got that) at HHH saying that Daniel Bryan wasn't fit to be champion. If Randy Orton was able to not put people to sleep with his lack of promo skills, then maybe just maybe he would be able to cut a heel promo after cashing in ON HIS OWN to gather some heat. Yea the ceremony was meant to get heat on him but it failed terribly because it was portrayed that the Mcmahons and Triple H set it up. I get that they are technically heels too but them setting it up and being in the ring the whole time and doing all of the talking gives them heat, not Orton.


Again, I don't care that a face left summerslam as champion. With all the things they could have done they went with the most predictable option. You can't say they didn't. I'm not even saying that from a personal standpoint. That's my opinion on it. Not me caring. It's their product and they can do what they want with it. I didn't know I tune in solely for this angle but I guess I do since you are trying to make it seem like I do.


Right, well I disagree smile
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08/27/2013 09:34 PM (UTC)
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The_Purple_Bunny Wrote:
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
Jobber.

I will chop your mouth!

RAW is right back to being a dud, as far as I'm concerned. Bummer.
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Zentile
08/28/2013 03:19 AM (UTC)
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And the ratings are coming in and both RAWs after Summerslam have done better in the ratings than RAW has done in a long time. Looks like people care. Oops.
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m0s3pH
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08/28/2013 04:47 AM (UTC)
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Take a look at the ratings history though. The Raw immediately following a PPV always turns in a better number; it's inflated by casuals who just want to know what happened at the show they didn't watch because they don't know to stream it. This past Raw was a 3% drop from the week before. They haven't gained viewership with this angle - yet. It's too early to tell.
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KingBellsprout
08/28/2013 06:36 AM (UTC)
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I didn't know a bit over one month ago was a long time. Raw on 7/8 drew a 3.08 rating. Better than this past week even if only by 0.01.

If you really think a fall out show from one of the big 4 PPVs has anything to do with the quality of the product from said PPV then I am dumbfounded by your way of thinking. Wrestlemania 29 was pretty bad (in my opinion and the opinion of a lot of people who I have spoken to about the PPV) yet the fallout show drew a 3.45 because it was the Wrestlemania Fallout show. People tuned in because they expect surprises to happen after Wrestlemania similar to how casual fans were surprised with Lesnar the year before.


I would say a go home show says more about the product than a fall out show. It shows how many people are interested in what WWE is building to. The go home show for Summerslam had a 0.3 increase from the first hour to the second (which featured the Cena / Bryan segment) and a 0.2 increase from the second hour to the third (which featured the Punk / Lesnar ending to Raw).

Oh and viewership dropped during the third hour of both shows these past two weeks (which featured this apparently great storyline with a ton of livid fans due to Orton and not Triple H at all). Looks like people don't care. Oops.
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acidslayer
08/28/2013 03:57 PM (UTC)
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I just hope RVD wins the world title from Del Rio at Night Of Champions. Even if it's like Daniels reign. Cause I'm sure he won't be with the WWE for a long time.

+ he's the whole f'n show. One of a kind.

Also for those who watched Summerslam 2013 how was the matches in terms of quality because I plan on getting it when it gets released on dvd in September 17th on amazon.
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legoslayer10
08/30/2013 05:18 PM (UTC)
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I have not been interested in pro-wrestling recently.

The angle just doesn't interest me. It's just not talking to me like WWE used to, and TNA/ iMpact is just clogged with the Aces & Eights Storyline.

It's sad when my favorite matches in the past month have been Divas and Knockouts.

I'll need spoilers later for SmackDown, as I'll be busy tonight.
And for every Friday for awhile.
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08/31/2013 12:04 AM (UTC)
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legoslayer10 Wrote:
It's sad when my favorite matches in the past month have been Divas and Knockouts.

I've enjoyed Natalya Neidhart v Brie Bella for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons. Brie Bella has a pretty sweet leg drop. I'd do the job.
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legoslayer10
08/31/2013 09:33 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
legoslayer10 Wrote:
It's sad when my favorite matches in the past month have been Divas and Knockouts.

I've enjoyed Natalya Neidhart v Brie Bella for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons. Brie Bella has a pretty sweet leg drop. I'd do the job.
Same here. The Bella Buster is a throwback to classic moves like tthe DDT and Cobra Clutch Slam, to me.

My favorite match in recent memory is the Gail Kim, ODB, Mickie James Triple Threat. It was well written, well performed, and had a spotlight on all 3 knockouts, with a winner that sent fans home happy, or pissed people who like the heels off.
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Rkoouttanowhere
09/10/2013 10:58 PM (UTC)
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I just started watching WWE again for the first time in probably 4 years as I have been a fan since the attitude era. Let me just say this WOW, all the midcarders of a few years ago are now the main eventers. Never in my life did I think I would see The miz in the title picture. I couldnt even recognize half of the wrestlers. Someone explain to me how the hell "Alberto Delrio" is championship material. Quite sad
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KingBellsprout
09/11/2013 02:17 AM (UTC)
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I'm surprised the streak of 7 episodes with the same ending came to an end....
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09/11/2013 05:40 AM (UTC)
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Rkoouttanowhere Wrote:
Someone explain to me how the hell "Alberto Delrio" is championship material.

I think Rkoouttanowhere has a good answer:
Rkoouttanowhere Wrote:
Never in my life did I think I would see The miz in the title picture. I couldnt even recognize half of the wrestlers.

If you manage to stick around long enough to see Del Rio at his best, I don't think it will be a question. Especially not in 2013! A bit of charisma, a bit of character, some in-ring ability. He's probably been doing his best work on Smackdown, but the last few weeks in particular haven't been kind. Being relegated to a meandering after thought isn't really on him, this is just what WWE do.

Mind you, if you're an Attitude Era fan who was watching recently enough to know of The Miz, I feel like you should probably already have frame of reference for dark days in WWE.
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m0s3pH
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09/11/2013 07:54 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
A bit of charisma, a bit of character, some in-ring ability.


ADR's only got one of those things, and it ain't charisma or character... and I'm iffy on the in-ring ability with how much I've seen him botch.
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Rkoouttanowhere
09/11/2013 06:55 PM (UTC)
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Well yeah, I kind of had a weird pattern. I watched from 1997- 2002 then stopped when brock lesnar beat the rock at summerslam. Then stopped watching for maybe a year and Ive seen the whole evolution and batista thing all the way to wm 26. Is brock lesnar and the rock regular performers now? Ive nonticed theyre on the roster on WWE.COM
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09/12/2013 05:48 AM (UTC)
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Rkoouttanowhere Wrote:
Is brock lesnar and the rock regular performers now? Ive nonticed theyre on the roster on WWE.COM

Rock and Lesnar are part-time players on better terms than in the past.

The Rock had a beefed up run (as WWE Champion) at the beginning of the year, through to Wrestlemania. He got an injury in his match with Cena which has cast doubt over anything that intensive happening again any time soon. Lesnar, on the back of being one of the biggest draws on PPV for UFC, has a much publicized contract of limited appearances, which they usually pepper around the major events. He's just done a stint with CM Punk a couple of months ago, so he's probably out of action until Rumble (some say Survivor Series).

Rkoouttanowhere Wrote:
Well yeah, I kind of had a weird pattern. I watched from 1997- 2002 then stopped when brock lesnar beat the rock at summerslam. Then stopped watching for maybe a year and Ive seen the whole evolution and batista thing all the way to wm 26.

I'm guessing most of us have done something along those lines.
I lasted until 2004 before losing interest throughout 2005. Didn't really start paying attention again until 2008 and some hot periods on Smackdown.

To my mind, late 2002 into 2003 was just about the last great run for WWE. The PPV brand split led to some shaky moments, but there was a lot of good stuff right into 2004. At the time, I wasn't enamoured with the 2002 Summerslam card, but King of the Ring changed the tone of the year, and Lesnar's August crowning really got things rolling. No Mercy and Survivor Series are still two of my favourite events top to bottom. I think you missed some gold!

Ten years later, it's interesting to see just how many people walked away for 2003, though. At the time, I was writing for prowrestling.com and pretty happy to see Rock and Austin clear the way. The rise of Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero, and the style that unfolded around them, is a peak I look at to rival the Attitude Era, for however brief it lasted. I think some commentators are rewriting history a little, with regards to the impact and attention Lesnar and Angle were commanding. There were a lot of people in the scene loving it. As you can obviously attest to, though, there's obviously truth to the gap in that time for a lot of people.

Was The Rock loss specifically what turned you away?
Or is the Summerslam timing just a coincidence?

It seems like a lot of people who missed that period were of the contingent put-off by The Rock's departure (and to a lesser extent, Austin), and maybe less interested in the Smackdown movement.

m0s3pH Wrote:
Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
A bit of charisma, a bit of character, some in-ring ability.

ADR's only got one of those things, and it ain't charisma or character... and I'm iffy on the in-ring ability with how much I've seen him botch.

racist
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09/12/2013 08:12 AM (UTC)
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Meanwhile, there's a little less hope in the "WWE Universe" with the reported forced retirement of Jim Ross. Still the best guy going. That we don't hear his voice every Monday and fourth Sunday is ridiculous. That we might never again - criminal. Very disappointing.
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m0s3pH
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09/12/2013 08:25 AM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Meanwhile, there's a little less hope in the "WWE Universe" with the reported forced retirement of Jim Ross. Still the best guy going. That we don't hear his voice every Monday and fourth Sunday is ridiculous. That we might never again - criminal. Very disappointing.


Yea, it sucks. Now we're definitely stuck with Cole and JBL getting into petty arguments for five hours a week instead of calling matches... for the foreseeable future. I swear, if it weren't for King I'd watch the damn shows on mute.
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Rkoouttanowhere
09/12/2013 06:23 PM (UTC)
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I was pretty young when that match happened, I remember I was pissed because The Rock was my hero. My brother kept telling me " brocks gonna win!" "bricks gonna win"! To tell the truth though, that isn't specifically what turned me away. There was no specific reason, but I completely agree with you. The attitude era and the ruthless agression era were both great. Man I miss kurt angle in a WWE ring too. This upcoming release (WWE2K14) makes me very very excited. Best roster ever! Now I can make an elimination chamber match with Goldberg vs. Bret Hart vs. Brock Lesnar vs. The Rock vs. Stone Cold vs. Triple H lol. I wonder why the hardys aren't in the game?
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