Sorry to hear that Keith,may your god bless you soon.

Nikodemus Wrote: As for the people that say the US needs a war President would you be thinking that same thing if the battle was right outside your door? It's fine and dandy when the war is being faught far from home and your not dodging the bullets. Voting for people like Bush is like shooting yourself in the head. The world is growing to hate America and even tho the US is the most powerful nation at the moment. It's probably best not to piss the rest of the world off. That's what Bush is doing...he is creating a rift between the US and the rest of the world. The more people the US attacks the more likely it is to get attacked.

Completely true.

Also, we should not forget that the US depends on foreign powers to sustain its own economy. Its deficit is amazing (it exponentially grew from 1995 and onwards): there is a big overconsumption and little given in return. In theory, there's this whole commerce in dollars, but this is just an empty bubble. There are much more productive economies than the US.

So again, even if you are a prototypical economist Republican, voting Bush is not your best option. In a hypothetical case the Eurasian countries would be so pissed off at the US that their trade blocks that of the US, this would mean a catastrophe.

Also, all this military bragging on some American citizens' part is pretty pointless. Bringing down a crippled army like Iraq's proves nothing, it's just bullying a much, much weaker enemy. The US never engaged into a full-scale war with an enemy that had a serious army (except perhaps Japan, but after the battles of Midway and Guadalcanal, its strength was complely broken). And even these unequal wars, against small countries, can't be won: Iraq and Afghanistan are unruly, Korea was divided, Vietnam was lost and WW2 was essentially won by the Soviet Union. These so-called "imperialist" traits of the current US are actually nothing more than cover-ups to hide severe military shortcomings, and the obsession with oil is another sign of fear: fear that the US will be "degraded" to just another global player, not a superpower.

/rant

Cheers,
VQ

I could truly care less who the Prez is, as long as he/she does a good job.

There would be more terrorist attacks against the U.S. if Bush re-becomes president than if Kerry becomes president.

Nikodemus Wrote: Why are all the Bush supporters in this thread morons? The only argument against Kerry so far is that he is a fag. That's weak to resort to name calling as a way to prove Bush is the better man. I can string together a bunch of insults in a sentence about Bush and it doesn't prove a fucking thing. As for the people that say the US needs a war President would you be thinking that same thing if the battle was right outside your door? It's fine and dandy when the war is being faught far from home and your not dodging the bullets. Voting for people like Bush is like shooting yourself in the head. The world is growing to hate America and even tho the US is the most powerful nation at the moment. It's probably best not to piss the rest of the world off. That's what Bush is doing...he is creating a rift between the US and the rest of the world. The more people the US attacks the more likely it is to get attacked. Once everyone gets sick of the US imposing its will and ideals all over the world there could be a lot of crap hittin the fan. I live in the US now (orginally from Canada)...and honestly the US is a great place. The average Joe/Jane is a good person and I would hate to see anything happen to this great country because of a bad president. Also I'd like to point out that Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack, and that the person behind the attacks is rarely talked about anymore by the president. Not to mention there were no weapons of mass destruction every found in Iraq, and if there were I think they would have been used to repel the US invasion? I dunno but if my house was being broken into by a rober I wouldn't use a butter knife to scare him off. I'd use something a little more dangerous. Terrorism can not be defeated by military might. Terrorists don't fight by the same rules.

I totally agree with you.

anyone who votes bush should die!!!!!

j/k

I personally do NOT like Bush, he is turning the world against eachother, forcing people and countries to make reluctant allegiances, and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people.
I dont think the women and children in iraq that died pointlessly, casualties of war as they are called i believe, wanted to die. Do you? do you think that the women and little girls wanted to be raped by sick and deranged assholes from the u.s.? Do you think the prisoners of Abu Ghraib wanted the public humiliation and torture that befell them? Are you all really stupid enough to vote for a monster to do this all a second time?
Your politics are not all that unfamiliar to me, here in quebec we have the separatists, and non-separatists for a lack of better sentencing, and when everyone saw that better health care and higher family allowances came at a cost that alot of people weren't willing to pay they didnt make the same mistake again. There are as with any election a few loyal idiots who think that this plan of action is correct, but obviously are sorely mistaken. Bush has done nothing but instew hate of muslims and hate of arabs, he is clearly pro-white america, and definately pro-christian. He is in any way you look at it an emmense waste of time and the world would be better off without him. Had he have not come into power, Iraq would not have been raped (its people and cities) both figuratively and literally, and things may have been handled in a much more sensible humane way. Not by picking a random arab-muslim country on the map and deciding this is our target for the next year or so.

Well, Bush will try to buy votes by using propaganda. The same way the Quebec separatists use anti-Canadian and anti-Anglophone propaganda to fuel hate within the French and thus win votes. Normally, Ottawa should abolish the PQ and the Bloc for high treason (if trying to break a country in half ain't treason, I don't know what is).

Yah I always thought that the idea of the Bloc was stupid how can you have a political party based on the idea of ripping the country apart?

Scorpion_Ninja987 Wrote: Well, Bush will try to buy votes by using propaganda. The same way the Quebec separatists use anti-Canadian and anti-Anglophone propaganda to fuel hate within the French and thus win votes. Normally, Ottawa should abolish the PQ and the Bloc for high treason (if trying to break a country in half ain't treason, I don't know what is).

Im not really invloved in the politics of America, but I can say that everyone here in Germany is afraid of Bush. He's using the same arguments like Hitler did before starting WWII.He's telling the people, that the Iraq was a
thread to the USA and he's telling that people are "bad". Thats exactly the same words Hitler used on the Jews. We all knowhappend between 1939 and 1945. And we dont want to have that back anywhere on this planet.Everyone in germany was shocked after 11.9.01. But a bunch of terrorists are no reason for bombing a country, where innocent people live,exspecially not if theres no proof that this country is involved in these terror attacks. The German councelor (like the president in USA, France) is a complete jackass on inner politics, but when he told the Germans, there wont be a Iraq war with German troops if they vote him, he won the vote.
I always liked America, I grew up with Coca Cola, Masters of the Universe, Rambo, Mickey Mouse and McDonalds. And I really enjoyed that. But I'm afraid of this ex-alcoholic guy, who's the real thread to worlds peace.

mahony23 Wrote: But a bunch of terrorists are no reason for bombing a country, where innocent people live,exspecially not if theres no proof that this country is involved in these terror attacks.

Oh sure... but did the terrorists have a logical reason to kill the innocent people of America?
And how fucking stupid do you have to be to think that their is no proof that that country was involved in the terror attacks. You obviously don't know shit(no offence, but your making a mockery of whoever died in the attacks). Especially since your from Germany, they give you tons and tons of anti-bush propaganda their...

migle Wrote: mahony23 Wrote: But a bunch of terrorists are no reason for bombing a country, where innocent people live,exspecially not if theres no proof that this country is involved in these terror attacks. Oh sure... but did the terrorists have a logical reason to kill the innocent people of America? And how fucking stupid do you have to be to think that their is no proof that that country was involved in the terror attacks. You obviously don't know shit(no offence, but your making a mockery of whoever died in the attacks). Especially since your from Germany, they give you tons and tons of anti-bush propaganda their...

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure they do...

seriously, trying to convince others that they're being fed propaganda and not even realizing the spoon in your own mouth...
Now I'm no Bush fan, but your comparison to Hitler is greatly flawed

Hitler blamed an entire country's problems on a race of people, and called for the purification of Germany (waged a war on an "enemy" within the very same country)
Bush doesn't blame all of the US's problems on Iraqis, or Afghans... he doesn't say that we need to wipe out their entire countries and races, so I don't see how he's saying a certain group of people are bad; besides terrorists obviously.

On a completely different note, am I the only one bugged by the fact that in the subject George is spelled wrong? that says to me either the thread creator doesn't care enough to change it, or has a bit of trouble phonetically, like Dubya.

What can we say about a president who can't even pronounce "nuclear", instead saying "nukeylar"...

migle Wrote: Oh sure... but did the terrorists have a logical reason to kill the innocent people of America?

No, they're terrorists. But a US-President should be better then them and just kill the terrorists and not the innocent people of Iraq.

migle Wrote: And how fucking stupid do you have to be to think that their is no proof that that country was involved in the terror attacks.

The Taliban perhaps, but not Iraq. Bin Laden hates Hussein, because Bin Laden thinks Hussein is godless. And I think the War on Iraq didnt stopped terrorists from anything. There are more terrorists in Iraq now then before the war . Hussein is a bastard, for sure, but the Iraq is now a thread because of the anarchy and the terrorist in there. Now the Iraq is another state where the al-kaida can train there fighters. The world is less safe then before the war and that is something, nobody wants.

Jaybe2K4 Wrote: Now I'm no Bush fan, but your comparison to Hitler is greatly flawed Hitler blamed an entire country's problems on a race of people, and called for the purification of Germany (waged a war on an "enemy" within the very same country) Bush doesn't blame all of the US's problems on Iraqis, or Afghans... he doesn't say that we need to wipe out their entire countries and races, so I don't see how he's saying a certain group of people are bad; besides terrorists obviously.

I dont wanted to say he's like Hitler. You cant compare anyone with Hitler, perhaps Stalin, but nobody else.Sorry if made you think.
I just want to say he's telling the people stupid reasons for a war, a war what didnt made sense at all.

I agree with that... now instead of catching Osama Bin Laden or members of al Quieda whom we know were responsible for terrorist acts, we've managed to piss off the Iraqi people as well, contributing to the ever-growing list of countries that hate us

as we approach the 3 year anniversary of a truly tragic event, I would hope that people would have enough respect not to make disparaging comments about the government, as it does not honor the memory of those who lost their lives, nor those who are risking their lives in Iraq to this very day, doing what is necessary to protect our country... there are no real winners in war

migle Wrote: Oh sure... but did the terrorists have a logical reason to kill the innocent people of America? And how fucking stupid do you have to be to think that their is no proof that that country was involved in the terror attacks.

What country are you talking about? Iraq? Iraq was not involved in global terrorism. And if you say it is, I want PROOF NOW, otherwise shut up.

migle Wrote: You obviously don't know shit(no offence, but your making a mockery of whoever died in the attacks)..

Bullshit. If criticising the government for its failure to lead your country properly, and feeding you lies (gee, where are those weapons of mass destruction again?), is "not respecting the victims", it's just a deseperate last stand to face the fact that you're wrong. You know what "respecting the victims" really is? Trying to work for a world where terrorists don't attack the US. And how can you prevent that? By removing the cause of terrorism -- an ineffective foreign policy.

migle Wrote: Especially since your from Germany, they give you tons and tons of anti-bush propaganda their...

You don't know shit about Germany.

Perhaps you watched FOX news too much.

Cheers,
VQ

both them suck ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

migle Wrote: mahony23 Wrote: But a bunch of terrorists are no reason for bombing a country, where innocent people live,exspecially not if theres no proof that this country is involved in these terror attacks. Oh sure... but did the terrorists have a logical reason to kill the innocent people of America? And how fucking stupid do you have to be to think that their is no proof that that country was involved in the terror attacks. You obviously don't know shit(no offence, but your making a mockery of whoever died in the attacks). Especially since your from Germany, they give you tons and tons of anti-bush propaganda their...

Holy shit, it's a black hole of Fox "News"-induced ignorance!

The only terrorists operating in Saddam's Iraq were in a small northeastern segment over which Saddam had no control; in fact, these terrorists intended to overthrow Saddam. Now the country is swarming with terrorists! Gee, I wonder what brought them there?

That's true. One of the 'stories' I have heard is this group of 'Rebels' actually was the ones to get Saddam, and they put him in the hole and told us where to find him...

xcarnagex Wrote: The only terrorists operating in Saddam's Iraq were in a small northeastern segment over which Saddam had no control; in fact, these terrorists intended to overthrow Saddam. Now the country is swarming with terrorists! Gee, I wonder what brought them there?

Jaybe2K4 Wrote: seriously, trying to convince others that they're being fed propaganda and not even realizing the spoon in your own mouth... Now I'm no Bush fan, but your comparison to Hitler is greatly flawed Hitler blamed an entire country's problems on a race of people, and called for the purification of Germany (waged a war on an "enemy" within the very same country) Bush doesn't blame all of the US's problems on Iraqis, or Afghans... he doesn't say that we need to wipe out their entire countries and races, so I don't see how he's saying a certain group of people are bad; besides terrorists obviously. On a completely different note, am I the only one bugged by the fact that in the subject George is spelled wrong? that says to me either the thread creator doesn't care enough to change it, or has a bit of trouble phonetically, like Dubya.

Reports of Bush's possible connection to 9.11 indicate otherwise. On the surface they seem unfounded. But there are important questions our government won't answer. And Bush's war against the poor could be paralleled to Hitler's war against Jews. I hate to say it, but I think Hitler actually believed the shit he spewed, unlike "W." Bush just lies and kills for power, which is arguably worse, and world wide, he IS the most hated political leader, world wide since Hitler.

Oh, I just thought it was because you couldn't spell.

drifter240 Wrote: because johny kerry sucks, and are country will be overrun by terrorists, because he is too afraid to kick some ass when the time comes for it VOTE BUSH IF YOU LOVE AMERICA THE WAY IT IS