New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts7552
Likes4 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 07:52 PM EST
Kabal20 Wrote:
they where aiming for a bigger roster and more DLC that MK9, so I'm not entirely worried.

The word for the last couple of months is 24 characters. I'd say I'm bit more than worried, lol.
New sig on the way
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2318
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 08:09 PM EST
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
In regards to the Aqua villains, I'll admit it. Ya got me. I know Ocean Master and the Manta guy (I don't even know his full name, lol). The problem for me is that in Batman's case, Iconicness is being treated as the main factor for admittance when it should be treated as one of many factors. Batman's villain are more iconic, yes. That's why I would put 4 of his associated characters in and give Aquaman maybe 1 (Green Lantern has two if Sinestro's in; Flash has zero so far). But nine! Come on, man. That's crazy!


There's not 9 right now. If we're not counting the main character themself(Batman), then we have 5:

1. Joker
2. Harley
3. Bane
4. Catwoman
5. Nightwing

TemperaryUserName Wrote:Who was rallying for Grundy, though? Does he not deserve to be in? Obscure characters are the spice of fighting games. You can make the opposite error like Marvel 3 did and put in a few too many, but there needs to be a balance..


Well, Grundy isn't a Batman character, but for the purpose of responding to it...Grundy was in from the start. So it's hard to tell if fans would have been rallying for Grundy or not. The character IS one of the main members of the Legion of Doom, and has been featured in many things such as the JL Animated series, many of the comics, and was most recently in Arkham City, so he is relevant. He is a main villain of the DC universe, so if people want variety and more people represented, as well as obscure, Grundy is a perfect fit for that.

TemperaryUserName Wrote:But again, it's one of many criteria. The reason for a lot of this fandom comes from the films and Arkham games. I don't know anyone who knew who killer croc was prior to Asylum. And with Bane, Grundy, and possibly Doomsday, the heavy-hitters are starting to get ridiculous.


Anyone who has seen Batman the Animated series(which I imagine is a lot), who reads the Batman comics, is familiar with Batman's rogues, or did play Arkham Asylum(which is a lot as well)...knew who Croc was. He isn't in most people's top 5 Batman villains, but he obviously has his fanbase if he has a few people on the forums wanting him in, and claim he is their favorite character/Batman villain.

TemperaryUserName Wrote:But even if popularity was the final word, I still think nine characters is crazy. There are people screaming for the Teen Titans right now, and it's starting to look like Beastboy and Starfire missed the boat...


There's not 9 confirmed Batman characters. I already explained that, so I won't go into it more. Unless you are counting Croc, Riddler, and Penguin, which aren't even playable by any means(Croc is the only one who would have a shot). People screaming for Teen Titans? I don't see any more desire for the Teen Titans than certain Batman villains. I see maybe 1 person wanting star saphire, and a couple for Beast Boy. When it comes to Teen Titans, we do have Cyborg, Nightwing(yeah, not tech. a TT), Raven(not confirmed yet), and Deathstroke being represented from that franchise. So to act as if TT aren't being represented is a bit silly. They are the 2nd most represented franchise as it stands right now. Besides, there's what, 5 Teen Titan characters? Even if only 2 of them get put in, that's over half their characters. In comparison, that's like getting 10 Batman characters, and screaming for more, which is what you guys are saying is ridiculous. Ultimately, no franchise is going to be fully represented, and nobody should expect them to. Be it 6/18 possible Batman characters, or 3/5 TT characters, when doing the math, TT are being represented just fine.

TemperaryUserName Wrote:And for the record, there is a huge backlash on Shoryuken and EventHubs concerning the over-saturation of Batman characters (and those sites, unfortunately, get a lot more traffic than this one; hopefully that'll change one day). Even the casual-goers think this shit is ridiculous..


What they say is no more important than what is said here. We are having a nice debate about it, and I feel as though I am giving very decent reasons why the backlash is unnecessary, and unjust. It's no different than any other superhero game. I gave multiple examples of Marvel games, and the X-men are far more represented than the rest. Because X-men is very parallel to Batman with it's large depth of popular characters. X-men and Batman also happen to have the most movies, the most animated series, and the most video games made after them. That's just how it goes. Each brand has to have it's "top dog" so to speak.

TemperaryUserName Wrote:Point taken about the roster being only half-Marvel, but the comparison is weak for another reason. MvC2 characters were predominately imported sprites due to time/money restraints, and given that there was a Capcom game called "X-Men: Children of the Atom", it makes sense that there's gonna be a lot of x-men characters (many of which never saw the light of day once MvC3 came out).


Ok, but it still doesn't change the fact that that's how it happened, throughout each game I mentioned. Maybe it was more extreme in MvC2, due to those reasons, but each other game I listed had similar results. 1/4-1/3 of the roster has been dominated by X-men.

TemperaryUserName Wrote:And most of the Avengers were autonomous characters with their own series to begin with.

Wait, where are you getting 7 x-men? I'm not counting anywhere near that number.


7 X-men in MvC3 you mean? Here:

Captain America
Deadpool
Doctor Doom
Dormammu
Hulk
Iron Man
Magneto
M.O.D.O.K.
Phoenix
Sentinel
She-Hulk
Shuma-Goratha
Spider-Man
Storm
Super-Skrull
Taskmaster
Thor
Wolverine
X-23

7
User Icon
  • CanadaCanada
Rank
Posts15132
Likes12 received
45 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 08:24 PM EST
Can't help but think this game's basically Justice League Vs Gotham City (+Solomon Grundy and Slade). It's not a bad thing, as I love all the characters revealed so far, but I'm hoping they release more non-Batman characters, like Amazo, Bizarro, Black Manta, Cheetah, Despero, Plastic-Man, etc.
MKO Moderator, Story Writer, Actor
*Signature by Pred*
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts58
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 08:31 PM EST
There are more than 5 Teen Titans. You only know of the 5 from the animated series. This is the famous lineup of the titans.
Robin (Nightwing)
Donna Troy (Wonder Girl)
Kid Flash
Beast Boy
Cyborg
Raven
Starfire

There are also a lot of other members but that is way too many people to list.
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2318
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 08:35 PM EST
roguelocke54 Wrote:
There are more than 5 Teen Titans. You only know of the 5 from the animated series. This is the famous lineup of the titans.
Robin (Nightwing)
Donna Troy (Wonder Girl)
Kid Flash
Beast Boy
Cyborg
Raven
Starfire

There are also a lot of other members but that is way too many people to list.


Thanks, I was just giving an example. I didn't elaborate because i'm not familiar with every TT incarnation that's been made, I only know of the animated series. Which featured Robin, Star Saphire, Raven, Cyborg, and Beast Boy. Wasn't implying that's all they had, ever. So far, we have Nightwing, Cyborg, Deathstroke/Slade, and potentially Raven. That's pretty decent.
User Icon
Rank
Posts559
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 09:10 PM EST
I really hope that killer croc is playable. I'm so tired of ppl saying that there's too many bat characters or that Grundy is a grappler so we don't need anymore, that's the weakest argument ever lol. SSF4 has 4 grapplers who all have diverse move sets.
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts1148
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 09:17 PM EST
blackcyborg Wrote:
I only know of the animated series. Which featured Robin, Star Saphire, Raven, Cyborg, and Beast Boy.

I think you mean Starfire?
-courtesy from MINION-
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2318
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 09:23 PM EST
Led_Auditore Wrote:
blackcyborg Wrote:
I only know of the animated series. Which featured Robin, Star Saphire, Raven, Cyborg, and Beast Boy.

I think you mean Starfire?

Yeah, always get them mixed up.
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts7552
Likes4 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 09:51 PM EST
blackcyborg Wrote:

There's not 9 right now. If we're not counting the main character themself(Batman), then we have 5:

1. Joker
2. Harley
3. Bane
4. Catwoman
5. Nightwing

And those characters (mostly) are fine. My only thesis is that including Croc, Riddler, and Penguin at this point would be ridiculous.

blackcyborg Wrote:

Well, Grundy isn't a Batman character

Precisely (he originated in Green Lantern specifically). He's virtually an unknown. This is why iconicness can't be the sole standard for inclusion. As for the additional reasons, much of that is moreso true for numerous other characters.

blackcyborg Wrote:
So to act as if TT aren't being represented is a bit silly. They are the 2nd most represented franchise as it stands right now. Besides, there's what, 5 Teen Titan characters? Even if only 2 of them get put in, that's over half their characters.

First off, most of the primary Teen Titans (as far as I know) debuted individually on their own merits, so you can't go by group representation. But if we run with the logic of proportional group representation, then the X-men were WAY under-represented in the MvC franchise. Their cast of members and villains is towering.

blackcyborg Wrote:

Anyone who has seen Batman the Animated series(which I imagine is a lot), who reads the Batman comics, is familiar with Batman's rogues, or did play Arkham Asylum(which is a lot as well)...knew who Croc was. He isn't in most people's top 5 Batman villains, but he obviously has his fanbase if he has a few people on the forums wanting him in, and claim he is their favorite character/Batman villain.

I don't specifically have a counter-argument for this. I can only go on experience here. From browsing TYM, SRK, and EventHubs, I have not seen a significant desire for Killer Croc.

blackcyborg Wrote:

There's not 9 confirmed Batman characters. I already explained that, so I won't go into it more. Unless you are counting Croc, Riddler, and Penguin, which aren't even playable by any means

Then why are we even debating? My whole thesis was that the three mentioned characters shouldn't be playable because there were already enough Batman characters. If you agree, this whole post is pointless.

blackcyborg Wrote:

Deadpool
Magneto
Phoenix
Sentinel
Storm
Wolverine
X-23
7

There was a substantial backlash to Sentinel and X-23, so their inclusion hurts more than helps your case. And Deadpool and Magneto... the extent to which they are "X-Men" is a serious point of debate, but I won't go into that. The comparison is still weak because unlike most Batman villains, these characters have autonomy outside of the X-Men franchise. There is no series of comics featuring Penguin or Riddler independently from the Batman franchise, and calling Magneto an X-Men villain is like calling Dr. Doom a Fantastic 4 villain: it's true, but their relevance so far exceeds those bounds that it's almost pointless to even comment on the fact.

And anyway, the whole issue loses weight when you take character proportions into consideration. If you look at the roster of X-Men members and villains, it makes sense that it would have gotten more representation. Much of the X-Men HAD their own comic series at one point in time, so looking at each one in a vacuum isn't so crazy.
New sig on the way
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts9149
Likes444 received
175 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:03 PM EST
Has anyone ever considered that just because the screenshot is of the story mode, doesn't mean Killer Croc is unplayable?

As you can see, he is in the forefront, actually engaging in a form of combat. For all we know, that scene leads into a playable fight with Flash going against Killer Croc.

User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts11258
Likes8 received
1 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:08 PM EST
Riyakou Wrote:
Has anyone ever considered that just because the screenshot is of the story mode, doesn't mean Killer Croc is unplayable?

As you can see, he is in the forefront, actually engaging in a form of combat. For all we know, that scene leads into a playable fight with Flash going against Killer Croc.

Good point. It could go either way. But look at MKD where we played NPC's in the Konquest mode such as Monster, Shang Tsung, Sonya etc. I think we might get a confrontation fight I.E. Grudge Match against these characters to help progress story with what's conflicting behind the curtain. I'm definitely all for NPC battles.
Groundbreaking Debut | You[Tube] | deviantART | Twitter
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts9149
Likes444 received
175 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:13 PM EST
MINION Wrote:
Riyakou Wrote:
Has anyone ever considered that just because the screenshot is of the story mode, doesn't mean Killer Croc is unplayable?

As you can see, he is in the forefront, actually engaging in a form of combat. For all we know, that scene leads into a playable fight with Flash going against Killer Croc.

Good point. It could go either way. But look at MKD where we played NPC's in the Konquest mode such as Monster, Shang Tsung, Sonya etc. I think we might get a confrontation fight I.E. Grudge Match against these characters to help progress story with what's conflicting behind the curtain. I'm definitely all for NPC battles.


But the fights in Deception's story mode more likely existed for the sense of nostalgia the game is meant to install in the players.

Injustice is an entirely new chapter in DC Comics. I don't think matches with non-playable characters will sit well here.

I hope there aren't any, excluding the boss, of couse.

User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts11258
Likes8 received
1 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:19 PM EST
Riyakou Wrote:
MINION Wrote:
Riyakou Wrote:
Has anyone ever considered that just because the screenshot is of the story mode, doesn't mean Killer Croc is unplayable?

As you can see, he is in the forefront, actually engaging in a form of combat. For all we know, that scene leads into a playable fight with Flash going against Killer Croc.

Good point. It could go either way. But look at MKD where we played NPC's in the Konquest mode such as Monster, Shang Tsung, Sonya etc. I think we might get a confrontation fight I.E. Grudge Match against these characters to help progress story with what's conflicting behind the curtain. I'm definitely all for NPC battles.


But the fights in Deception's story mode more likely existed for the sense of nostalgia the game is meant to install in the players.

Injustice is an entirely new chapter in DC Comics. I don't think matches with non-playable characters will sit well here.

I hope there aren't any, excluding the boss, of couse.

True. However even though it contradicts my point here. MKvsDCU was the first chapter of the "Comic" essence video game from NRS. And even in that game Martian Manhunter was mentioned by WW to flash. Granted it wasn't a NPC fight we still got to play around with some of the characters being brought into Injustice. So for what it's worth we have a little Nod from that game in Injustice. Yes I know it's nothing to do with MK but we can't act as if MKvsDCU don't exist.

With Injustice NPC fights would offer more Diversity then (and even though it was awesome) Fighting just the Norms already in game and playable. Yes we should have that Interaction at every possible part in the game. But I would look at fighting NPC's as a kinda off-stray mini test your might game where you fight a certain Norm and they are forced to match up against a character that will be entirely unorthodox in moves and predictability. Would be a nice little throw off game to shake things up. Just saying...
Groundbreaking Debut | You[Tube] | deviantART | Twitter
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2318
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:22 PM EST
TemperaryUserName Wrote:
There was a substantial backlash to Sentinel and X-23, so their inclusion hurts more than helps your case. And Deadpool and Magneto... the extent to which they are "X-Men" is a serious point of debate, but I won't go into that. The comparison is still weak because unlike most Batman villains, these characters have autonomy outside of the X-Men franchise. There is no series of comics featuring Penguin or Riddler independently from the Batman franchise, and calling Magneto an X-Men villain is like calling Dr. Doom a Fantastic 4 villain: it's true, but their relevance so far exceeds those bounds that it's almost pointless to even comment on the fact.

And anyway, the whole issue loses weight when you take character proportions into consideration. If you look at the roster of X-Men members and villains, it makes sense that it would have gotten more representation. Much of the X-Men HAD their own comic series at one point in time, so looking at each one in a vacuum isn't so crazy.


The rest of the post, there's really nothing to say. Though, I will say Grundy isn't an "unknown". If he's an unknown, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, every Flash, Wonder Woman, and Green Arrow villain, as well as just about 95% of the DCU, are unknown. Because honestly, ask anyone who they know of the DCU, that aren't actual comic book readers, just casual fans that know the characters through movies/tv etc. People know Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Joker, Catwoman, Lex Luthor, Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face, and Mr. Freeze...that's about it. My friends don't even know who Martian Manhunter is, and they are comic book fans. They know quite a bit about Marvel characters, and a good portion of Batman, Superman etc. But when we were playing Heroscape, and I got MM, they asked who he was. Same for many others. They know the main ones for DC, but not much beyond that. So I don't really see the point in saying Grundy is "unknown". Comic book fans, who actually read into DC and the characters in it, know who Grundy is. Casual fans, unless they played Arkham City, which a TON of people did, probably don't know Grundy or many others that people are asking for.

How does that hurt my case. We're talking about how much franchises are represented. They're still from X-men. It's not about whether they are loved by the majority, or if people accept them or not. My point is simply, the publishers chose to have that many X-men, for a reason. And it goes beyond just that game. Not sure why we are harping on just MvC3. I named several Marvel games, and they all had 1/4-1/3 X-men. For good reason. You are going beyond that, and just trying to argue whether the characters ended up being fan favorites or not. Any character can end up being disliked due to being in over someone else, or because they aren't balanced well enough by the creators. That's just innevitable, not something relating to X-men or Batman and how they are represented.

Saying Deadpool and Magneto aren't X-men characters, even though they were created in X-men and remain in X-men comics to this day, as wella s the movies and games...the same could be said about Joker, Catwoman, and Nightwing. So i'm not sure of the point being made here. These characters too, go beyond the Batman franchise. Catwoman and Nightwing have their own series based around them. They are iconic fan favorites that have their own huge fanbases. Very similar to Deadpool. Joker is way beyond Batman. He has a fanbase that is ridiculous. He's had his own stories told about him. He is his own thing as well, similar to Magneto. Heck, on IGN's top 100 villains in all of comics, these two took 1 and 2. So i'm glad you said it, because I have been saying it about the Batman characters in multiple posts. These characters just go so beyond being relagated as simply being "Batman characters". Croc, Bane...sure, they are Batman characters. But Joker, Nightwing, and Catwoman...even Harley to a lesser extent(she stars in her own series the Suicide Squad with other characters)...these guys just aren't featured in Batman books anymore and it's been this way for many years.

So I feel there's a bit of a double standard at play here. Which I hope I explained well enough above.
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2893
Likes10 received
5 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:25 PM EST
Everyone is talking about Penguin and the Riddler but Two Face is next to Killer Croc's hand
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is forgiven, so Sex is in. I kill people for a living. Get over it.
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts727
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:32 PM EST
BADASS6669 Wrote:
Everyone is talking about Penguin and the Riddler but Two Face is next to Killer Croc's hand


Alright, I'll bite.....where at? grin
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2453
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:34 PM EST
Boon posted on Twitter saying that we'll find out if Croc is playable or not tomorrow.
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2554
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:48 PM EST
Grimm Wrote:
Boon posted on Twitter saying that we'll find out if Croc is playable or not tomorrow.


Iz got this feeling hes playable.
User Icon
Rank
Posts62
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:54 PM EST
fingers crossed on no
sig made by MINION
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts4739
Likes3 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 10:56 PM EST
SuperMex Wrote:
fingers crossed on no


User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts244
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 11:07 PM EST
If he wasnt an exact re-skin of his arkham city appearance I would say he may be playable...but with all the personalization they have put in all the other characters I just cant see them using a carbon copy from another game as a roster character.
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts9149
Likes444 received
175 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 11:17 PM EST
MINION Wrote:

Yes I know it's nothing to do with MK but we can't act as if MKvsDCU don't exist.



Yeah you can, I do it all the time!

I heavenly skip right over it from Armageddon to MK2011.

User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts2318
Likes0 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 11:23 PM EST
Riyakou Wrote:
MINION Wrote:

Yes I know it's nothing to do with MK but we can't act as if MKvsDCU don't exist.



Yeah you can, I do it all the time!

I heavenly skip right over it from Armageddon to MK2011.



MKvsDC was the best thing that could have happened to MK.

Sure, it wasn't perfect as a game, but man, without it, WB may have never picked up NRS. That in itself makes everything more than worth it.

Personally, I enjoyed the game, and thought it played better than MK:DA-MK:A. I prefer a more 2d playing field though, so even though it wasn't full on locked on 1 plane, it was still a step in the right direction. Also, it gave us the first version of the chapter by chapter story mode, that they did so well in MK9.

I also thought all the characters played better, and were more fleshed out than in MK:DA-MK:A.

So yeah, MKvsDC was definitely worth it in my opinion.

As I said before, had they not established that working relationship with WB and DC, WB may not have had the desire to pick them out when Midway went under. And eversince being picked up by WB, as with MK9, you can tell we are in for a much better product. Plus, and here's the best part, now we get a DC fighting game with an awesome roster and story, in between MK games. Dream come true!
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts5500
Likes10 received
1 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 11:28 PM EST
This is clearly just a screenshot for story mode or something. You can tell because only Flash has a bad design.
-sig by MINION
User Icon
  • United States of AmericaUnited States of America
Rank
Posts7552
Likes4 received
0 given
RE: New Injustice Screenshot Reveals Killer Croc Among Us
02/07/2013 11:32 PM EST
blackcyborg Wrote:
We're talking about how much franchises are represented. They're still from X-men. It's not about whether they are loved by the majority, or if people accept them or not. My point is simply, the publishers chose to have that many X-men, for a reason

Well, the fan-opinion is certainly part of it. But you're right. That's not core the reason.

blackcyborg Wrote:
And it goes beyond just that game. Not sure why we are harping on just MvC3. I named several Marvel games, and they all had 1/4-1/3 X-men.

Ultimate Marvel Alliance is not a fighting game, but the same logic applies. It's not a case over over-saturation; it's a case of treating X-Men as a faction of individual heroes and not a one-character franchise. What if we took the logic being used for Batman in Injustice and applied it to Spiderman's supporting characters/villains... or Ghostriders, or Daredevil's, and so on, you'd have a mess on your hands.

X-Men may be a franchise, but it is not structured like other franchises and can't be approached the same way.

blackcyborg Wrote:
For good reason. You are going beyond that, and just trying to argue whether the characters ended up being fan favorites or not. Any character can end up being disliked due to being in over someone else, or because they aren't balanced well enough by the creators. That's just innevitable, not something relating to X-men or Batman and how they are represented.

If that's how my point came across, then there's been a miscommunication. What I meant to say was that the Marvel characters you mentioned had a degree of autonomy that Batman villains do not.

I wasn't saying, "this character has his own comic series" to demonstrate how POPULAR they are. My point was that the character is self-sustaining. They can support their own arcs and storyline outside the context of the X-Men, which most Batman villains cannot do. And by extension, yes, they end up having sustaining fanbases because of that, too.

blackcyborg Wrote:
...even though they were created in X-men and remain in X-men comics to this day, as wella s the movies and games...the same could be said about Joker, Catwoman, and Nightwing. So i'm not sure of the point being made here.

Agreed. Those aren't the characters I'm referring to. The guys on trial here are Killer Croc, Penguin, and really anyone who holds similar status in the Batman realm.

My point is that Magneto has outgrown the category. "Being an X-Men" is not his defining property, nor has it been for a long time. That's why I cry foul when people try to cap the X-Men inclusions because of his presence. This goes Double for Deadpool as his affiliation with X-Men is hardly a talking point if you ask me.

blackcyborg Wrote:
So I feel there's a bit of a double standard at play here. Which I hope I explained well enough above.

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. You can't approach X-Men the same way you approach Batman for story relevance. They have different character structures which are networked differently in their given universes.

Batman does not function in the DC universe the same way the X-Men functions in the Marvel universe. One is a single superhero who is central to the villains, supporting figures, and the surrounding conflicts around him (with exceptions, as stated above). The other is a body of heroes (most of them equal in relevance) who's villains overlap strongly into other parts of their respective universe. To compare the two is unfair from the get go.
New sig on the way
User Poll
Top Kombatant for MultiVersus?
29.4%
Goro
19.6%
Scorpion
13.7%
Liu Kang
11.8%
Other
7.8%
Kitana
7.8%
Raiden
7.8%
Sub-Zero
2.0%
Shao Kahn