Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 05:14 PM EST

Cassie and Jacqui are both equal gimmicky characters with little personality that separates them from their parents. Objectively there’s no difference.

Jacqui to me has more potential based on the comics and if they give her some of Jax’s metal arms technology. Not guns!

Kung Jin and Takeda were way more unique, though Scorpion getting his moves makes the latter less likely to return. Give me Kung Jin out of all 4.

I think in the story there will be a lame plot of both Kung Jin and Takeda being captured as the bitches chase the captors and will win out in the end for all to return in MK12. Sob love story, fake hollywood shit, boring

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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 05:28 PM EST

Is everyone suddenly incapable of criticizing or even talking about female characters without using the words bitches and whores?

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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 05:29 PM EST

Here's a hot take: You could kill Jacqui off, give her gauntlets to Cassie Cage and nothing of value would be lost.

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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 07:10 PM EST
02/11/2019 07:16 PM EST
Spider804

Is everyone suddenly incapable of criticizing or even talking about female characters without using the words bitches and whores?

Oh my God THANK YOU!

'Bout goddamn time someone said it. Been getting on my nerves for a while now, but saying anything would also have meant further engaging in several conversations that were clearly going nowhere.

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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 07:38 PM EST

Cassie existing in the same game as Sonya and Johnny again makes me want to jam forks into both of my eyes one at a time.

I HOPE that NRS keeps Sonya and Johnny gameplay the same and really play up the green magic ability that both Cassie and Johnny inexplicably possess in Cassie’s gameplay.

NRS failed at fully transforming Johnny into the “you are human but special because you have x gift”... so now I hope they really turn Cassie into an actual superhuman and give her the chance to explore her abilities to the fullest potential.

Thatd really put her in a new category separate from her parents.

Jacqui just sucks.. pew pew

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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 09:11 PM EST
mattteo

I agree with this. I liked her as a shy girl. She is not the typical adolescent, like Cassie is. Takeda was pretty down to Earth too.

But what do we do with the people who want the kombat kids to be more and more pop culture mirrors? That doesn't mirror the Mortal Kombat I know, of shaolin monks training in seclusion and away from the modern world, the real heroes of the Tournaments.

Are there a lot of people wanting the kids to be pop culture mirrors though? I haven’t really seen that, to be honest. If anything, I see more hate for the characters based on how much the devs leaned in to more perceived millennial aspects.

I think that’s a bit overstated though. Yes, Cassie has a fatality involving a selfie, but other than that? Every character talks trash, characters of all ages had annoying moments or made logic defying decisions.

I think people are under the impression that they were in MKX to replace original characters ala Soul Calibur V but that isn’t happening. Sonya, Cage, Jax, Kung Lao, Scorpion and Kenshi were all in MKX. Scorpion and Sonya are in MK11 with Cage and Kung Lao strongly hinted at.

So to me, I don’t even see the whole “replaced by poor imitations” thing as an issue, though it might help to separate them from their families a bit to establish them as unique characters in their own right.

I don’t think the way they handled them in MKX was bad though, as that whole game’s story was built around relationships. But now that they’re established, it might help to give them more unique story beats and not stick with the sort of “kombatants in training” aspect.

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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 10:30 PM EST

can we just move on from this broken records of a subject

not once was anyone anywhere in any game supposed to replace anyone from the game, they had kids, they have relatives they were put in a game, you don't like them move on

500 threads on characters you people hate don't you get tired of hating on non-realistic people, go outside look around, smell a freaking flower.

"You Totally Slept With Him Didn't Ya"

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RE: How can so many people see Jacqui for the sh**y SF character that she is, but keep defending Cassie? What's the difference?
02/11/2019 10:47 PM EST

I don't mind people criticizing the characters, but I would prefer they do it in a constructive way, rather than repeatedly saying stupid shit like "selfie whore" and generally acting as if the offending character in question physically did something terrible to them. It's very irritating and annoying, and does nothing but help to breed a toxic environment.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 09:45 AM EST

I've basically said it about all the Kombat Kids. Bland. The only one I think isn't a total dud is Takeda. But even then just like the rest of them he needs a design revamp. Something more eye catching and compelling. But that's not going to happen right now, or even in the next MK game. Who knows if it ever will because now that photo realism has been achieved graphically, it's the hill of blandness most triple A games will die on and it does a real disservice to the tone and characters of this series.

And before anyone comes at me with "But MK was always photo realistic!" No it wasn't. Even when they used digitized actors they edited them to look like cartoons. It's why old MK succeeded where the mimic games failed.They livened up the visuals.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 10:08 AM EST
Onaga

I've basically said it about all the Kombat Kids. Bland. The only one I think isn't a total dud is Takeda. But even then just like the rest of them he needs a design revamp. Something more eye catching and compelling. But that's not going to happen right now, or even in the next MK game. Who knows if it ever will because now that photo realism has been achieved graphically, it's the hill of blandness most triple A games will die on and it does a real disservice to the tone and characters of this series.

And before anyone comes at me with "But MK was always photo realistic!" No it wasn't. Even when they used digitized actors they edited them to look like cartoons. It's why old MK succeeded where the mimic games failed.They livened up the visuals.

VISUALLY... I kind of agree. Cassie, Jacqui & Takeda all had bland visual designs. As did Sonya & Johnny in X (some of my least favorite looks for both characters). Just black body armor & military tech gear. Too much of it. All bland. All sucked. They were all fairly visually boring. I tended to use Cassie's alt more often than not just to add a splash of color to the screen. Kung Jin on the otherhand honestly had a visually interesting design, but he had my least favorite personality of the 4.

As I've said before though, I think Cassie had personality for days, which made her very fun to play, as I've mentioned in a couple posts the last few days. I think Jacqui & Takeda lacked a personality for the most part... and both were fairly bland. Takeda had some daddy issues, but was relatively uninteresting outside of scenes with Kenshi. Jacqui was just relatively uninteresting all around. Kung Jin had a personality, unfortunately that personality was "asshole" which made me actively dislike him. Wheras Cassie won me over, and while Jacqui & Takeda didn't win me over, I also didn't find them off-putting.

*Shrug* But as I've said in other threads, different people gravitate toward different likes and dislikes. I don't begrudge anyone who enjoyed Takeda or Kung Jin or even Jacqui, nor would I be bent out of shape if any or all of them came back. *Shrug*

11 games in I've learned to roll with the punches in this franchise. My favorite characters are Mileena & Nitara, and I'm not bitching that either of them aren't in 11. Hell, I didn't expect either of them to be. Mileena will be back. Nitara probably won't. Either way I still enjoy the franchise and I usually just ride it to wherever it's going next.

(Unless it's going to the DC Universe, because screw that again)

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 12:59 PM EST

Jacqui and Cassie were nothing alike. Cassie's moves had her personality all the way through them (like her or hate her). She had all her dad's cockiness and showboating flair but also some of her mom's acrobatic yet more direct and efficient style. It looks like Sonya is moving slightly more away from that (no leg grab but she has a sliding leg takedown instead), so maybe they will make Cassie more Cammy/Blue Mary acrobatic command grabs like-style to reflect that change (I can dream) and still have her dad's flashy influence with green energy to back it up. Basically her Brawler variant kicked up to a new level as that was arguably the most "Cassie" variant and least "me mimicing dad or mom" variant.

Jaqui's playstyle had some similarities to dad combining kickboxing with her tech instead of wrestling. It just was lacking in flavor and personality.

Which brings me to personality. Nuckelavee was sort of right in one regard. Sonya is a horrible parent because she's too busy trying to keep the world safe but ends up neglecting what matters most to her (actually some good writing here I was surprised). Johnny meanwhile tries really REALLY hard to be a good dad practically on his own (I also really liked this as it was a refreshing twist on single mom, deadbeat dad trope). But he's also kind of being a movie star who ended up being forced to step up and become the champion of the entire Earth! lol. Cassie is left being attention starved (very obvious from the selfies and general attitude) and living in the shadow of both of her real life super hero parents. She's got mommy and daddy issues up the wazoo and like many young people who idolize a parent she's struggling through the life journey of trying to emulate those parental idols while also trying to find "yourself" and how you are your own person and not just your parent's 2.0 product. It is the core of her hero journey. Can I live up to mom and dad's legacies but still be myself?

Then we have Jacqui who should have had a similar plot but switched up to: You having this dad you idolize because he's like a real life superhero. He is literally one of the most badass dudes on the planet. And then something kills him. It's world shattering. By some miracle he's brought back to life but different. That great man is scarred and broken. He retires. But you will pick up his mantle. You will prove that there is nothing that can stop a Briggs." That SHOULD have been the Jacqui we got. The setup was ALL there. Instead we got poorly delivered bad black stereotyped "Awwww daaang"s every five seconds and little to nothing else unless it was how she interacted with Cass or Takeda. I loved the intro with Cass being like "I'm never talking to you again". She responds "Come on. All I said was your dad's kinda hot". And Cass of course childishly reacts with "Stooop it!!!!". That was my favorite Jacqui moment because she was given SO few others. She was a missed opportunity and damn near everyone sees that and that alone is most of the Jacqui hate from a story perspective. The rest of the hate is her best special being spamming "pewpewpew" cheaply, lol.

Sorry for the length again guys.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 01:23 PM EST
VenoMark

The biggest crime of Selfie Cage are, Sonya and Johnny are NOT parent material... she destroyed them, can’t take them serious anymore... I used to like them.

She always has to win, now she beat Shinnock... boring!

I hate the selfie new generation, and Cassie is their ugly queen.

She turns MK into a boring soap.

Jacqui could have worked, if Sonya didn’t suddenly need gadgets as well...

First of all, almost nothing you said here makes sense as far criticism is concerned. If I could suggest one thing, it would be to explain yourself in full sentences instead of typing things out like you're whipping up a series of text messages. Getting to it, then.

Was your sudden dislike for Johnny and Sonya the result of Sonya giving birth to Cassie in the first place? Did her existence limit their personalities and play styles? Overall, Johnny seems like a fine character to me. Concerning his play style, he's lacking in the mix-up department, but he's a solid character overall. Sonya's a mix-up goddess and has been a mainstay in (eSports) tournaments. The first player to come to mind is Scar, who damn near downed SonicFox in one tournament grand final. I've always thought Sonya was boring without Johnny attached to her for comedic relief, so they make an interesting and appealing couple. That's my opinion, at least.

Also, Cassie doesn't "always [have] to win". She got her ass handed to her by Sub-Zero in story mode. So, my suggestion here is that you replay story mode and consider altering your critique just a pinch. Just a suggestion, though.

If one character is capable of turning "MK into a boring soap", then you must have a very limited collection of games or a bunch that you absolutely despise because one character, apparently, is capable of ruining an entire game for you. You're on your own as far getting any help with that is concerned, lol.

Does diversity in play style between characters not make them appealing enough for you? Dumbing them down to characters who need "gadgets" is a simpleminded approach, in my opinion. There are so many more facets to each character if you just take the time to learn how to play them. Otherwise, it seems you'll never realize the unique complexities in each character.

I was typing from my IPAD, I never type long sentences from that thing, it is annoying, + I'm not a native English speaking person, I can read ANY English, but typing it myself is hard mostly because I'm a very anxious person and I don't like thinking for too long, I just want to type it over with as all the sentences are waving through my head.

Now for the post:

I don't care for online play, so people kicking ass with Goddess Sonya online don't matter to me personally, fine for them, but I don't care.

I loved Sonya Blade and Johnny Cage before they became annoying SOAP parents, and before they joined the special forces, (Johnny Cage never looked blander, the knuckles with CAGE on them are the only cool thing) I also don't like Cassie being half Johnny and half Sonya + I don't want that selfie whore to replace ANY of them, I'd rather see selfie slut die horrible and slow, so their parents get a grieving vengeance story or whatever.

I hate this selfie generation, so I'm not gonna cut the whore and slut thing, I 'd take the lives of Butterflies and bees over them.

Cassie beat Shinnok AFTER being beat by Sub-Zero, her losing (with this INSANE green power that can kill an elder god) to Kano in MK11 wouldn't make any sense now. So yeah, she has to beat everyone, and look her beaing Kronika in the end again... Ed Boon rarely learns from his pathetic mistakes.

It is not one character though, it are 7 characters, add Kenshi even to make 8. Those family drama matters do nothing to me in MOrtal Kombat at least. I wouldn't mind jax having Jacqui (with better name though) as daughter, but why Johnny and Sonya? They just aren't parent material and they become as horrid as any SOAP opera in the MKX storymode.

I don't even mind if they play very differently, 4 people with guns in one game is just too much for me, at least for Mortal Kombat, I want more plant powers, shapeshifting, elemental powers and such stuff, the many Special Boring Forces units must be the NPC's, not the cool Fujin's, Rains, Sindels and Noob Saibots.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 01:58 PM EST

You hate the selfie generation yet you're on record as saying you want a vain character in Mortal Kombat. Do you even hear yourself when you talk?

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 02:04 PM EST
Spider804

You hate the selfie generation yet you're on record as saying you want a vain character in Mortal Kombat. Do you even hear yourself when you talk?

Remember Vega from streetfighter? Vanity Smurf? DId they need selfies? No.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 02:09 PM EST

I'm not arguing that, merely stating that selfies, which I do not like, are a form of vanity. And Vega and Vanity Smurf didn't need them because that stupid shit wasn't a "thing" back when they debuted.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 02:12 PM EST

Honestly I don't know if the Street Fighter story has really been brought into the modern era for the most part. They also don't put alot of emphasis on putting as much character in their characters as SF is about gameplay, the story is an afterthought. This is why Japan could care less about MK where story is important to them. If anybody in SF were to get involved in modern selfie culture which is probably also more wide spread and problematic in the US than Japan, it is Vega, lol. Honorable mention goes to Karen.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 02:19 PM EST
Spider804

I'm not arguing that, merely stating that selfies, which I do not like, are a form of vanity. And Vega and Vanity Smurf didn't need them because that stupid shit wasn't a "thing" back when they debuted.

That's why I would like to see an OUTWORLD (no selfies and mobiles there) vain evil character. Cassie is no character to me.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 02:22 PM EST
Bloodfang

Honestly I don't know if the Street Fighter story has really been brought into the modern era for the most part. They also don't put alot of emphasis on putting as much character in their characters as SF is about gameplay, the story is an afterthought. This is why Japan could care less about MK where story is important to them. If anybody in SF were to get involved in modern selfie culture which is probably also more wide spread and problematic in the US than Japan, it is Vega, lol. Honorable mention goes to Karen.

I love Karin, but I think she is more like a RICH SNOB than a vain character, I also love those characters, which are rich and very low-thinking about others.

Street Fighter does have some storylines, though very tiny. I like Mortal Kombat more, but both games have a special place in my heart, thanks to nostalgia. And in the latest games there are things like mobiles and stuff, but I think Vega hates selfies/mobiles just as much as I.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 03:31 PM EST
Onaga

I've basically said it about all the Kombat Kids. Bland. The only one I think isn't a total dud is Takeda. But even then just like the rest of them he needs a design revamp. Something more eye catching and compelling. But that's not going to happen right now, or even in the next MK game. Who knows if it ever will because now that photo realism has been achieved graphically, it's the hill of blandness most triple A games will die on and it does a real disservice to the tone and characters of this series.

And before anyone comes at me with "But MK was always photo realistic!" No it wasn't. Even when they used digitized actors they edited them to look like cartoons. It's why old MK succeeded where the mimic games failed.They livened up the visuals.

I hated the fact that they have used real actors faces in this one. I hope they tweak them around in a similar way they did in the first Triology.

It kills creativity...

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 04:06 PM EST

Jesus.

E-sports, selfies, south park references, bad parents, Street Fighter, VANITY F'N SMURF!? What IS this thread?

You work with what you got...not what you hope for.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 04:38 PM EST
Detox

Jesus.

E-sports, selfies, south park references, bad parents, Street Fighter, VANITY F'N SMURF!? What IS this thread?

I found myself asking this morning, "Does anyone mod this place anymore?"

I tried looking for some sort of forum rules or guidelines this morning to see what the policies on repeated persistent derogatory language were (if any), and all I found were some old dead links to community FAQs that are no longer there.

I come here for MK11 banter & updates, but apparently these days that's expanded to such deep and far reaching philosophical topics as: Would Vanity Smurf & Vega take a selfie if they had access to cellphones... and does that make them sluts for some reason?

In about 7 different threads no less...

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 04:45 PM EST

I can't fight trolls much longer. The body is willing, but the mind is slowly becoming mush.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 05:00 PM EST
Spider804

I can't fight trolls much longer. The body is willing, but the mind is slowly becoming mush.

I’m impressed you tried as long as you did, haha. Respect.

Gillbob316
Detox

Jesus.

E-sports, selfies, south park references, bad parents, Street Fighter, VANITY F'N SMURF!? What IS this thread?

I found myself asking this morning, "Does anyone mod this place anymore?"

I tried looking for some sort of forum rules or guidelines this morning to see what the policies on repeated persistent derogatory language were (if any), and all I found were some old dead links to community FAQs that are no longer there.

I come here for MK11 banter & updates, but apparently these days that's expanded to such deep and far reaching philosophical topics as: Would Vanity Smurf & Vega take a selfie if they had access to cellphones... and does that make them sluts for some reason?

In about 7 different threads no less...

I mean, aside from the boneheaded use of “whore” and “slut” they’re not breaking any rules. I guess the threads are JUST different enough so they can’t be merged. It’s the absolute seething conviction to ignorance that bothers me. But, it is what it is.

You work with what you got...not what you hope for.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 05:04 PM EST

Mind....Crumbling....NO!! I must continue the fight! MKO needs a defender of the realm! THE TROLLS WILL NOT WIN!! THIS I SWEAR!

....But not right now, I have to get back to work.

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RE: Why do people say Jacqui is a terrible character, but not Cassie, who's the same??
02/12/2019 05:04 PM EST

you know this is the same person on the different mk related forums posting the same stuff and getting everyone either annoyed, pissed or both, yet here we are continuing the thread to get them off by getting annoyed at the guy who created it

same image, same code name same effing threads, then he gets annoyed with us getting annoyed with him, i'm same with you @Gillbob316 i became a member here like ive mentioned when mk9 was being talked about cause i was that person going through the threads to see if images were leaked and i was like OMG Kitana and Sonya, or OMG Scorpion images cool then i did the same with MKX, now with mk11 i come on here doing the same thing but then i see MEN sitting here attacking female characters in video games calling them sluts and shit and i ain't having that so i say something, but being a female and getting pissed its more like 'GEEZ WOMAN STFU AND GO COOK ME SOMETHING IN THE KITCHEN' kinda attitude in these threads

so all everyone is doing is egging on this specific person or people on these threads and yeah i too sit here and think WHERE THE FUCK is the mods why are they not deleting these repetitive threads on the same shit or putting them into one thread or better yet banning those a holes from doing it

"You Totally Slept With Him Didn't Ya"