Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/09/2019 10:36 PM EST
The_Truth

^ Nope. If the two characters play nothing alike, then it’s not a wasted roster slot even if they share similar ice powers. That’s like complaining about Ryu and Ken both being in a Street Fighter.

It went over so well in the last game with the Kombat Kids right? Putting Junior right alongside Senior always undercuts Junior. I think we actually saw this work against Frost once before as well.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/09/2019 11:29 PM EST

I like frosts inclusions the story potential between her and sub zero is interesting hopefully she double crosses him and tries to take over the clan or something like that, I don’t see her staying as a good guy for too long

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 12:21 AM EST
02/10/2019 12:23 AM EST
Nuckelavee

I'm actually hyped for Frost, she could be the VAIN VEGA character I need so bad, a game without a vain character is not a game at all.

Lmao. Not coming at you, just had to react to the "needing a vain character" and your intense constant hate on Cassie Cage (as you call her the selfie whore)! I mean what's more vain than a selfie? OR do specifically need them to be both vain AND evil (you mentioned later if Frost is good you will hate her). Do you only like the villains? Help me out here, I'm suddenly curious, lol.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 12:40 AM EST
Onaga

It went over so well in the last game with the Kombat Kids right? Putting Junior right alongside Senior always undercuts Junior. I think we actually saw this work against Frost once before as well.

I guess what works well or not depends on the person, now doesn’t it? If she’s fun to play, looks cool, and they give her something interesting to do, then what is the problem? There are student and mentor tandems in all fighting games from Street Fighter, to Dead or Alive, to Tekken, etc. so why is it a problem in MK? There are a lot of interesting possibilities with this character, and I think it’s silly to completely dismiss a character before they’re even officially confirmed. I have characters that I want to be on the roster too, but I always keep an open mind.

Everybody is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings, but people saying a character is a wasted roster spot without any knowledge of the reasons for their inclusion in MK11 is a teeny bit over the top. Like at least see what they look like first, y’know? =/

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 02:41 AM EST

Everyone deserves a second chance. Especially Frost. Honestly, with all the complaints that go on around here about Netherrealm ignoring characters from the 3D era, you'd think people would be more open minded, but instead it sounds like a lot of people would rather she end up in the trash pile with the Hsu Haos of the franchise. Now I admit that characters like Frost and Jacqui are not high on my list of faves, but as much as I want characters like Fujin, Havik, Sareena, Li Mei, Ashrah and Kai to get second chances, I want these guys to get another chance just as much. Especially since we haven't even seen gameplay of these characters yet to see if NRS has revamped them, it just seems ridiculous to write them off immediately. But hey, what do I know. Don't like 'em, more power to ya.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 05:36 AM EST
02/10/2019 05:44 AM EST
Bloodfang
Nuckelavee

I'm actually hyped for Frost, she could be the VAIN VEGA character I need so bad, a game without a vain character is not a game at all.

Lmao. Not coming at you, just had to react to the "needing a vain character" and your intense constant hate on Cassie Cage (as you call her the selfie whore)! I mean what's more vain than a selfie? OR do specifically need them to be both vain AND evil (you mentioned later if Frost is good you will hate her). Do you only like the villains? Help me out here, I'm suddenly curious, lol.

Johnny Cage = goodguy vain character

Kitana = goodgirl vain character, Cassie doesnt exist in my perfect MK world

Rain = evil guy vain character

Frost = evil girl vain character

I always need one of each lol

I LOVE the seven sins, and love characters based on that, not counting farting fat guys and modern selfie sluts though.

I love the evil characters more, they are less human, but I enjoy some of the goodguys as well. Some I hate being evil (Raiden, Liu Kang and Kitana) and some I NEED to be evil (Sindel, Rain, Kabal, Frost and Ermac.) I mean, who wants two goodguys using ice? Or two/three goodguys using telekinesis? Speed, weather and voice powers are cooler on evils side as well.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 05:37 AM EST
02/10/2019 05:41 AM EST

Dubble Post...

But to explain what I mean with vain = loves own reflection, obsessed with own and others beauty, mirrors, roses, arrogance, ect ect. Selfies aren’t really vain, just annoying and a cry for attention.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 05:39 AM EST

Frost is a decent yet cheaply designed 3D character, that could be turned into something decent but will forever be a female Sub Zero.

No you can leak achievement and all, I won't believe her inclusion until they announce her... Until then, she sits back.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 08:23 AM EST
02/10/2019 08:34 AM EST
The_Truth
Onaga

It went over so well in the last game with the Kombat Kids right? Putting Junior right alongside Senior always undercuts Junior. I think we actually saw this work against Frost once before as well.

I guess what works well or not depends on the person, now doesn’t it? If she’s fun to play, looks cool, and they give her something interesting to do, then what is the problem? There are student and mentor tandems in all fighting games from Street Fighter, to Dead or Alive, to Tekken, etc. so why is it a problem in MK? There are a lot of interesting possibilities with this character, and I think it’s silly to completely dismiss a character before they’re even officially confirmed. I have characters that I want to be on the roster too, but I always keep an open mind.

Everybody is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings, but people saying a character is a wasted roster spot without any knowledge of the reasons for their inclusion in MK11 is a teeny bit over the top. Like at least see what they look like first, y’know? =/

I guess I just lack faith in NRS being able to stretch the freeze character concept 8 times over due to variations. I mean they already showed how fast they bottomed out in MKX with the variation concept when they merged characters with others. Or just dished out really pointless useless variations with characters like Reptile.

It really has nothing to do with the "wasted spot" line of thinking. I think Frost has potential, but with the variation system I don't see her fairing well at all. Until that goes away I say bench her.

Also I have never really like the mentor archetype in many fighting games because it's often just Ryu only it's not or Edge Master. I can only think of a few rare occasions where they were unique to their protege such as Bo Rai Cho.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 10:00 AM EST
Nuckelavee

Dubble Post...

But to explain what I mean with vain = loves own reflection, obsessed with own and others beauty, mirrors, roses, arrogance, ect ect. Selfies aren’t really vain, just annoying and a cry for attention.

So... selfies aren't "vain," they're just a cry for attention based on an arrogant obsession with one's own image, as reflected in a camera lens and on display to the world. Your skills at contradicting yourself to justify your hatred for a fictional character are most impressive.

Roses indicate vanity... how? Which specific cartoon are you getting your idea of vanity from? And if we're going by your personal definition, how does Frost fit in as a vain character? She never once makes reference to her appearance. She has too much pride, sure, but there's no indication she's narcissistic about her own looks.

Never shake hands with a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. ~ Master Fuji's Fortune Cookie
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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 10:55 AM EST
umbrascitor

So what do we know about Frost as a character? She's reckless and impulsive, with less mastery of her powers than Sub-Zero. Eager to prove herself; arrogant yet also insecure. Sneaky and a backstabber.

If I were building Frost, I'd give her an untamed and undisciplined fighting style comparable to Mileena. Flashy, because she lives to impress. Yet her tactics should be rather indirect and subversive, leaning more toward hindering her opponent and making it less of a fair fight. As much as she frets over how she compares to her peers, using tactics that bring people down a notch seems appropriate.

Since her powers are less developed, I see her having snow and fog based abilities more than solid ice. She could use fog as a sort of invisibility cloak to hide her exact position and what she's doing, or to teleport (ala Jason), or to create a field that empowers her attacks or damages her opponent. Instead of a projectile freeze, she could have a freeze touch -- either as a parry or as an enhancement to a lunging dagger attack, command grab, or somesuch. A snow blast (reminiscent of Hsu Hao's clap) could push opponents away and complement her ranged capabilities, such as thrown daggers and/or icy needles diving from the sky. A snow blast could also cling to the opponent and slow their movement or prevent jumping, etc. Her classic ground freeze could function more like Quan Chi's runes, erupting from the ground at set distances and holding the opponent's feet for a short time.

While Sub-Zero is fairly direct in his fighting style, Frost can be more of a trickster who relies on subversive tactics to make up for her lack of substantive skill and discipline. It falls in line with her character and can significantly differentiate her from her mentor.

This convinced me she can be done in a way I can be happy with, which is what I was hoping to get out of this thread. Thank you!

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 11:10 AM EST

If she's in, I really hope either Skarlet or Sonya kicks her ass and kills her. When Deadly Alliance came out, I was excited for Frost but after playing her, she was just a wannabe Sub-Zero with nothing to make her stand out. She was a wasted character in my opinion.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 11:27 AM EST

They’d have to change her looks completely, more of a menacing ice queen and not just a female ninja with blue hair for me to be interested. Since Sub Zero has lost his go to move, ground freeze slide can go to Frost among others. I do fear they will not really make her that different.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 11:39 AM EST

I don't find Frost very appealing, I never really did. When she debuted I thought 'Oh this is kind of cool, a girl Sub Zero". But by MK7, that charm had worn off.

Fast forward to now, and I'm largely indifferent regarding her inclusion. My first thought was, why her, of all the awesome PS2 era characters? My thoughts then shifted to the reality of the inclusion, that ultimately what it means for me is a character I won't use often.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/10/2019 01:10 PM EST

I honestly want to see Frost interact with Takeda. I like the idea that Sub-Zero & Scorpion both have apprentices in their clan of wildly different temperament. I like the idea that Sub-Zero is typically the calm one, and Scorpion the hot-headed one, but the reverse is true of their underlings.

I have no specific ideas or expectations, I just want to see these characters play off eachother.

The problem is, we currently have no indication at all that Takeda is in 11. And frankly (despite everything I just said) Takeda was never my favorite character, so I'm not even dying to see him return.

But if he did return, I'd want to see him & Frost in a room together. Preferably as reluctant allies, as it would allow for them to talk. Wheras enemies usually just quickly leads to punching. And I'm okay with punching too in the long run. I just want to see some Shirai Ryu vs. Lin Kuei philosophy & interaction from a perspective that ISN'T Sub-Zero vs. Scorpion for a change.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 09:40 AM EST
Gillbob316

I honestly want to see Frost interact with Takeda. I like the idea that Sub-Zero & Scorpion both have apprentices in their clan of wildly different temperament. I like the idea that Sub-Zero is typically the calm one, and Scorpion the hot-headed one, but the reverse is true of their underlings.

I have no specific ideas or expectations, I just want to see these characters play off eachother.

The problem is, we currently have no indication at all that Takeda is in 11. And frankly (despite everything I just said) Takeda was never my favorite character, so I'm not even dying to see him return.

But if he did return, I'd want to see him & Frost in a room together. Preferably as reluctant allies, as it would allow for them to talk. Wheras enemies usually just quickly leads to punching. And I'm okay with punching too in the long run. I just want to see some Shirai Ryu vs. Lin Kuei philosophy & interaction from a perspective that ISN'T Sub-Zero vs. Scorpion for a change.

Although I did end up playing Cassie a little because of the Cage/Sonya mix in her specials suiting my aggressive combo playstyle, but actually out of the kids Takeda interested me most. The notion of a combination of Kenshi and Scorpion sounds like an awesome character. Sadly I was not as good with him in MKX as I wanted to be (I prefered Shirai Ryu/Lasher) so I was hopeful that changes made to him for this game would allow him to take a proper place in my top mains. Part of my concern for new meter-locked Scorpion is that he will be more like Shirai Ryu Takeda who I really just never seemed to be able to get anything going with combo/momentum wise.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 09:55 AM EST

double post again sorry. @nuckelavee, Ok, fair enough. Yes, I could debate with you but philosophically you can't really win an argument about OPINION, lol. I also like Cage and Kitana (my 3rd and 2nd fav respectively) but Cassie isn't as bad for me as she is for you obviously. I said I wasn't coming at you and I will stick by that by not arguing with you on the narcissistic difference between a reflection in a mirror or an image in a photo, lol. You like people and hate others for often absurd reasons the same as everybody else. Myself and my prejudice towards vampire cliches and therefore hating Nitara unfairly even though others want her back being a perfect example. Hopefuly we'll both be happy with the final if not initial version of the game.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 10:06 AM EST
Onaga
The_Truth

^ Nope. If the two characters play nothing alike, then it’s not a wasted roster slot even if they share similar ice powers. That’s like complaining about Ryu and Ken both being in a Street Fighter.

It went over so well in the last game with the Kombat Kids right? Putting Junior right alongside Senior always undercuts Junior. I think we actually saw this work against Frost once before as well.

Then why is Cassie so popular?

Having junior next to senior isn't the issue. Having either not be a well developed character is the issue. That was Jacqui's issue. Hopefully, she receives better development this time around.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 11:30 AM EST
02/12/2019 11:39 AM EST

We've briefly discussed snow themed powers a few times. I usually suggest throwing snowballs as a heavy impact/stumble, or rolling one as a trip.

Raise a snowman as a block or whatever like that ring move Sub-Zero has now. Also throwing ice chunks like knives Sareena style, but Sub-Zero does this. Give freezing rain/ice shower.

Ka-Tra

15 YEARS! ^[2004-10 Komics Sig by Siklooted, tyvm]^ [2012-19 Komics *NEW 1/26/2019*] "Circling Vulture, Laughing Hyena" "Ma'at" "Zhi Nu" True story, it happened to a friend of a friend of mine... EVERYBODY!

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 11:45 AM EST

All these people shitting on Frost will be singing a different tune once they see her new badass redesign and jaw-dropping move sets and fatalities.

Happens every time. NRS is much better at remaking their characters than creating them. Skarlet is proof of that.

Leader Of Rain's Minions & Tanya's Titans. Thx Minion!
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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 12:21 PM EST

I actually liked her low hitting, fast creeping ground freeze that still froze the opponent on contact. I hope they bring that back as it would still be different than Sub. And her "teleport" backwards off screen and slide from behind to uppercut popup was also useful. I say give her that with a mixup option for true low slide from behind or the uppercut (both amplified into a stronger hit or combo). Work in the Ice Daggers for some quick multi-stab/cut Killer Frost type specials as Sub seems to favor heavy two-handers or axes. It would be good start. Then go with snow or cold mist for slippery or hell instead of freezing give her a "slow down" mechanic that could be cool as a half-way between sub-zero's flash freezing and Geras's time shenanigans, lol.

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 12:38 PM EST

Slowdown like a sand trap or fill the wole screen w knee deep snow drifts?

Ka-Tra

15 YEARS! ^[2004-10 Komics Sig by Siklooted, tyvm]^ [2012-19 Komics *NEW 1/26/2019*] "Circling Vulture, Laughing Hyena" "Ma'at" "Zhi Nu" True story, it happened to a friend of a friend of mine... EVERYBODY!

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 02:34 PM EST

I really hope Frost works for Kronika, her ice powers are awesome for this! Stopping aging with her cryostasis- causing powers.

Maybe Kronika asked Sub-Zero to join her cause, but he ignored her, but Frost approached Kronika instead.

Kabal, Jade, Geras, the Kollector (From Kabals ending), Frost and Kronika would make a very cool team!

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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 07:10 PM EST

If she's in, hope that she's not just a henchman story-wise, like how they did Killer Frost.


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RE: Kharacter Konsultation: Frost in MK11
02/12/2019 07:15 PM EST
02/12/2019 07:23 PM EST

Why on earth do people want two GOOD natured cryomancers? We already have Sub-Zero as the ice-wussy, don't need Frost to become a wussy too. Bad guys can have cool background stories, don't need to be good for a good backstory, Kittelsen can do it, Boon and Vogel CAN'T do anything with badguys that is a given. so kittelselen gives me hope. (hint comic, hint Reiko, hint Havik, hint Kotal) I already loved the cage-fighting part of Frost, reminds me of my favorite SF character, Vega! :love:

If Frost is just another good-guy I will not going to like her, I love Frost because she's vile, arrogant and very hotheaded. Don't want to turn her into a Sub-Zero lacky, rather have her work with Kronika, I bet Kronika isn't your typical badguy, she gives all her team-members purpose and story.

MKO User Poll
MK11 The Reveal MVP?
47.6%
Skarlet
23.8%
Baraka
9.5%
Other
6.7%
Geras
5.7%
Sub-Zero
5.7%
Sonya Blade
1.0%
Kronika