I’ve been making content long enough on YouTube that I wouldn’t suggest taking upvotes or downvotes to mean anything.

With that said, I fully agree that the 3D era characters (especially as a rabid/pathetic Li Mei fanboy) deserve representation in MK11. I really, really, really want a lot of them in if for no other reason than to see what these characters could be. I’m ok with DLC.

People using the number of likes on obscure YouTube channels that simply repost every brainfart birthed in cesspools like resetera and 4chan or mk online communuties/subreddits as a back up for their argumentation is a crime, murder of logic.

It's like as if I'd claim to be physician just because I see anatomy videos on YouTube.

MKX sold 5.5 million copies (minimum).

5000 is like 1% of the total user base.

Does it sound like a majority?

It's not me it is mathematics and, once again logic, something you seem to do not get grasp of.

YouTube is not a source of MK things, exactly like the Mk wiki. Mkonline.com barely fits thanks to great users like Tabmok99. Other old school mk sites may be trust worthy, but not YouTube channels, sorry.

Mk success is due to casuals, people that:

Do not know/care about the lore

Do not care about the competitive scene or the gameplay

Do not play long term, more than a could of months

Do not surf the web/communities dedicated to mk

Those people are the majority of the 5.5 million copies sold by mkx, and trust me, no one out of those 5.5 million of people know/care about Havik or Hotaru.

not sure why everyone is arguing over the dumbest things

bottom line ed is the creator and he is putting in the characters he is putting in he is a troll so the fan demands as he says us bs

the game is done like people have said and the kp1 is most likely done as well so all this youtube has likes for this and that not helping

also if they said the game will be focused on mk-mk3 era then enough is enough with the 3d-era people they are past them moving on

Let’s just wait until the roster is finalised before we cry for more 3D era characters, if you look back over the last couple they are slowly reintroducing a few of them.

Quan Chi and Kenshi have been well and truly reestablished now, Tanya and Bo Rai Cho were DLC and both well received in th last game (despite my personal hatred for Bo Rai Cho).

Reiko and Havik were reimagined in the comics with great success and in my opinion (and hope)one of if not both have a good chance at being DLC in this game.

Fujin, Sareena, Frost and li Mei also made Cameos which were well received in MKX so there is a good chance one of them may get a run this game as well.

One of the problems I see with the 3D era games is people romanticise it too much and believe that the games and characters were cooler and better than they really were looking back on them.

Make a poll and see if you get 5000 likes for Jacqui. You won't.

It's not that it's a small percentage. It's that people somewhere, have banded together, and share an opinion. Doesn't matter that they're not 5 million, those 5000 people need to be respected.

And they would become 5 million if NRS would just put Fujin or Kenshi or Havik into the game. Cause, yeah, that's how many fans they'd have. But they can't grow their fans UNLESS they are made playable in the game.

2,500 upvotes to you, mate.

-- Wait a minute, what? Kenshi has been in the last two games!

And despite being a 3D era character himself, some people are saying he should take a break to let more 3D characters in. He's basically lumped in with the originals now, like Quan Chi, when it comes to the "I'm sick of the same old characters" crowd.

I'm sure this was an accident and you didn't honestly, totally forget that Kenshi was around. But whatever the case, this does kinda strengthen my point that complainers are unfairly overlooking which characters are out there when they criticize the roster.

That was not what I meant. I meant Kenshi for MK11.

And Kenshi contributed to those 5 million sales a lot, like any other 3D character they would put in would. Don't think casuals wouldn't want to play as Reiko or Fujin. You'd be surprised how popular they'd become.

Thing about this though is that we don’t know how many people actually want more 3D characters. All we have is anecdotal evidence in favor and a sort of general assumption that most casuals would be against, and I don’t see either as overly reliable.

I could say that I’ve seen a lot more people commenting on MK’s tweets requesting 3D era characters, but that could easily be because the Kira’s and Havik’s of the MK world need more advocating than the Kitana’s and Liu Kang’s. Plus, as you said, the casuals aren’t the type to care enough or know enough to want the more obscure characters.

So again, it’s anecdotal. What I’d be curious to see is some kind of survey that was answered by a wider variety of fans, which won’t happen. Still though, and this is a total guess on my part, I tend to think that most would be fine with 3D era character inclusion because MK does have a large fanbase that stretches back a long ways, but even if they don’t know Reiko or Kai, if they think they’re a new character and they’re done well, then what’s the harm?

Well, for one thing, Tanya was in Deception, so it’s not like she’s only getting her second chance in MKX, but I do hope she’s in 11, as I thought they did a great job with her in X and like you, I don’t want to see some of these harder to come by characters come back and leave just as quickly.

To your point about Brusk not trusting NRS to include 3D era characters as DLC, I don’t quite get that either, as they’ve had some good 3D era character DLC. That said, and maybe I am being a bit greedy here, but I would like to see more, both as DLC and on the main roster. I like Kenshi and Quan Chi, But we’ve seen them so many times that I wouldn’t mind seeing others get a chance.

Really? I’ve honestly found the opposite to be true. If anything, I’ve seen more people refer to the 3D era as the dark ages of MK than romanticize it.

I think that’s why you see more of a push from people advocating for the 3D era characters. I’m sure that many feel that if they don’t advocate for these characters, NRS will absolutely leave them in the dust. Honestly at this point, many consider the inclusion of Tanya and BRC as DLC to be just as much fan service as Tremor and Skarlet, which is kinda strange given that the former were already in two games, but I think that’s kinda where those characters are at.

As for 3D era characters not being that good, I think a lot of people try to see the potential as opposed to the current reality. Many of these characters started off flawed and that’s where they ended. Kira was an amalgamation of Kano and Sonya, but maybe if she had more games to evolve the way Reptile (who began as an amalgamation of Sub and Scorpion), she’d be a highly requested character instead of a niche fan campaign.

So yeah, it’s easy to see the warts on 3D era characters, but if you look at what they could be, here and now in 2019, I think you might see that the reason why many advocate for them isn’t nostalgia goggles, butvthe desire to see a vampire, a new chosen one / capoeira fighter, a wind god, an Omega Red type, a scheming general, a being of pure chaos, a refugee fighting for her home, a demon spying for the good guys and so on.

There are compelling ideas buried in the dated graphics and limited gameplay of the past, and for me, I’d like to see more Tanyas and BRCs realize that potential than I’d like to see the same fifteen orvso characters that show up in every game no matter what. I like those characters too, but I wouldn’t mind the chance to miss some of them for a game.

-- Holy shit, how did I forget that Tanya was in Deception?!

Well, the game did come out 15 years ago

........Fuck, that was my half my life ago

ok your on here and on tym and god knows where else

he is a youtuber his voice means nothing to anyone expect for you

sorry but crying over characters because you want them does not help a forum of people who range from hardcore to those who don't care

arguing over 3d era wants in a game THAT IS ALREADY FINISHED is like 'where are all my fries gone' when you clearly ate them

get over it and wait i understand everyone has opinions but for fucksakes crying cause your fav is not there is not the end of the world for the others

also you seriously made a thread cause of a guy from youtube are you him pretending to be someone else or do you love this cause you made the exactly same forum on here and tym like my god its mk1-mk3 DROP IT END OF STORY GET OVER IT AND GO PLAY ARMAGEDDON IF YOU WANT YOUR GUYS

Read my thread about mk’s history to understand better why the 3D era was not what fans make it to be, will never be heavily featured and it has very little to do with the quality of the characters.

Also, the irony of calling trilogy characters boring and then asking for Tanya and Frost or Taven and Deagon is pretty funny.

It really shouldn’t matter which era they’re from, I want a diverse roster more so than anything.That’s why I’d like a Havik, Moloch, Onaga or Asrah to return.

They are unique and I think it wouldn’t hurt if we had more beasts, fantasy creatures to balance it out since so many look human and are from earth. Let’s see what NRS has up their sleeves.

Man, take it down a notch lol. We’re all just talkin here.

Anyways, Brusk is relatively known among hardcore MK fans so it’s not like he’s a complete nobody. I won’t pretend he’s to MK what Ninja is to Fortnite, but the guy had an opinion, he made a video, a couple thousand people liked it and the OP agreed as well. No big deal.

Now, maybe it’s the futility of the request that bothers you the most? If it’s too many threads in too many places, well, I can’t help ya there other then to suggest you ignore them.

But if it’s the former, I’m sure the roster is likely set with only a few months to go, but who knows. Maybe there’s a 3D era character or two that they could swap in to the main roster from DLC pack one for a Trilogy character or two that have less of a role or no role in the story.

Or maybe they’re still early on in DLC pack two and hearing from fans pushes them in a direction they might not have gone. Though I’ll grant you they’re probably not combing this page or TYM for feedback when I’m sure their discord and twitter give them all they can handle, but still. Nothing wrong with testing the waters among fellow friends and who knows, maybe they do check some of these sites every so often. I’m sure they know who the guys at MKO are, at the very least.

So I don’t know for certain that any conversation about 3D era characters is futile just yet. Now eleven characters? No. Not happening obviously. Far too late for anything approaching that number, and that’s even assuming there are already one or two on the main roster that haven’t been announced yet.

Personally, I prefer to dream a bit smaller. If we can get five 3D era characters between the main roster, where one seems likely and even two would be a stretch given the story, then three or four between two Kombat packs (I’m just assuming they’ll do more than one), I’d be happy.

As for fans that want 3D era characters playing Armageddon yo get their fix... That’s like giving someone spam when they asked for filet mignon. I don’t need a filet, but at LEAST a NY strip from a low tier chain restaurant, maybe?

i can ignore them but so many threads (most of them) are have people wanting certain people, trying to give their points to why they should be playable and then when others say something like it ain't happening the thread goes out of hand and it's just a bunch of people hating on each other

i haven't comment much till recently cause it's annoying i come on here to check if there are any images of mk11 things, then i see these threads and it's been like this since mkx maybe even mk9 was release not sure i don't remember reading much info on this forum about mk9 back in the day

also well if you want *insert name* of so and so if they were not in mk9, nor mkx i highly doubt they will be in mk11 so i'm not angry i get everyone can talk so my comments aren't like i am shouting at my laptop screen but it's literally someone post a thread of something

someone mentions they want havik, reiko explain why then another person says like no they are stupid, then the next comments will be people either trolling, trying to piss off the person who said they want so and so or there is a huge blow out over a game that a group of guys created

ooor the thread is just talking about something completely different and then it turns to

ugh why is raiden there he does nothing for me, fujin would be better. . . . . come on raiden was in mk1

ugh why is sonya there she is so boring.... i want frost.... yeah ok you want frost remove sub zero you can change their movesets but they both use ice nothing different about that it's ice

ugh why are they using the same old boring people......... ugh they want to do whatever they want its their story let them do it

ugh they should add 50 3d era people ....... why is jacqui there she is so dumb and no one used her in mkx, its cause she is Jax's daughter and its what NRS wants.

i'm trying really hard to not be hateful or be harsh but its literally every thread on different forums even on gamesfaqs its the same group of people saying the same thing over and over . . . .yes even those who are bitching about the bitching is the same but its like move on, game is done game is finished now we just sit and wait and see who they are putting in

i would love for it to be like armaggon where everyone was it so everyone can be happy, but it ain't happening so whining thread after thread about this or arguing who is the best youtuber cause he talks about mk and has the most likes does not mean NRS is listening the only reason those youtubers are invited to their reveal event so us people who weren't there can see the footage from their view and what was going on if you don't catch the live event or whatever

so don't think i'm some hating person but come on if ashrah or drahmin or mavado or w/e have not been in mk9 nor mkx then why would they give them a chance in mk11, plus if the characters in mkx mention they killed people in their intros its Ed's way of saying 'you wanted kobra.. sorry he was killed' i get mk characters die and come back but those who nrs wants back come back moloch's head is shown by quan chi you really think he will be in the slot now its nrs way of getting rid of characters they don't feel like putting in the game

look at the mkx comics they killed hsu hao and killed him 3 times 2x in the games and then 3rd time in the comics it might not be fully canon but he is done for ed has mentioned there are quite a few characters in the 3d era were embarrassment to the team so this is their way of trying to erase them

bottom line arguing over who you want exactly is not the same as someone else everyone's wishlist roster will always 1-2 people others will hate and want out of the game you might want sareena instead of sonya but you have the fanboys who will attack and say sareena sucks and sonya rules

I'm pretty sure anyone who asks for Ashrah and not Nitara is a communist.

I heard that somewhere.

I want both

I hear ya, and I can see how it can be very frustrating to come to any forum and see the same arguments, even in threads that aren’t about that topic. I only thought you seemed a bit worked up because of the all-caps in your previous post. It’s all good.

I think the characters (which should and shouldn’t be in, why I like character A and why character B sucks etc) are a pretty common theme and that goes back to the first MK board I was ever on back in the 90’s prior to MK5.org.

I’m sure you understand why. For one, it’s something people have strong preferences about, plus it’s not something you have to be an expert on to speak about. Plus, it’s something fun to speculate on, especially in between news or react to when we get news. Let’s face it, news tends to focus more on characters over the course of the lead up to release, even if everything gets reacted to overall. Characters tend to be the most controversial, and what makes one person happy makes another mad enough to rant about it.

But like I said, I’m sure you know all of that. It’s not the why that matters, but the how often. I totally understand. Sometimes I like to engagevand sometimes I prefer to avoid it, so I might post here a lot field a few days and then back off when I see the topics aren’t changing. No big deal.

As for characters likely not being in MK11 because they missed MK9 and MKX, that’s relatively sound logic. I say relatively because MK9’s story was completely Trilogy based, so I don’t really look to that as a guide for how they’ll do things going forward. The story completely called for it, while I tend to think that MK11 might have a little more wiggle room, even if they already said they’re playing the hits again.

I think that’s doubly true, not only from a plot perspective, where several 3D era characters were alive during the events of the first three games, but from the fact that MKX had some 3D era characters that weren’t the assumed (Quan Chi and Kenshi). They had for cameos and two DLC in addition to Quan Chi and Kenshi being in the base roster, and this was a game that also had eight new characters.

Given that they’re dropping the number of new characters for this game, it’s not entirely inconceivable that we won’t see a decent number of 3D era characters.

Sure I agree there are some like Hsu Hao, Moloch and Kobra that are flat out done. I’d assume Darrius, Drahmin and Dairou are on that list as well. But even that’s debatable. I never thought for a second that Skarlet would return, yet here we are.

Anything’s possible, even if some are less (or even far less) likely than others. Annoying as it is, that shred of hope is what gets fans talking about Fujin, Li Mei, Reiko, Kai, Mavado, Frost, Havik, Sareena, Ashrah and others, even if that talking leads to debating and people crapping on the characters other people like lol.

I don’t think we need an Armageddon type of cast to make most people happy. Sure, some people really love Kira and will only be appeased if Kira’s in the game, but I think a substantial majority of 3D era apologists just want more representation from this era in general and maybe some that are different than the ones we’ve seen a lot (Kenshi and Quan Chi). More balance in the roster and a few less of the characters we see in every game, at least so we can miss them and want them to return.

I don’t mind what roster they would throw at me, wasn’t it for characters like BoRaCho, Li Mei, Jacqui and Cassie. I hate those characters especially Cassie who destroys my love for both Sonya and Johnny...

lol nah i'm annoyed but everyone can have their opinions it's fine

it's just me expressing as i write the caps are just caps no harm if i offend people i don't mean to

it also bugs me cause people are like 'oh you love so and so he/she is in the game so you can attack others' just because my image and signature is Kitana yeah she's my fav but i'm not like only buying the games cause she is in,

MK has always been a fun game to me cause it's a game where you fight others and you get to brutally kill them it's fun it's gross and it's legal you won't go to jail for doing it in the game (unless you try it in person lol) SF was fun back in the day until they changed the movesets in the later games i don't want to spend time having to do move left stick all around 50 times then hit hp, hk, lk, hk just to do Ryu's spinning kick move, i'm also not a fan of dead or alive/virtua fighter type of games nor am i one of Tekken but i don't hate other people who love them

i've always enjoyed MK seeing what they bring in the games cause it's never the same (most of the time) i also don't mind the characters i do play as others and see who is fun, but honestly most of the guys in fighting games they make them slow and it's annoying so it's why i like sticking with the females cause they move around faster, in mkx i had fun playing with Takeda and Kung Jin cause they could move quick same with Kung Lao, it's just getting upset over a character you want for so long is just hurting yourself and why can't you have fun playing the game with the roster they have and trying out everyone else, which is the first thing i will be doing after i play story mode. so don't just assume cause i got Kitana as my display i'm like HA MY GIRL IS IN SCREW ALL OF YOU cause honestly yeah i like her but come on a Assassin who is Royal and her weapon of choose is freaking Fans how can you hate, but i don't hate the other people i might not play with them as much as others like Ferra/Torr in MKX but i'm not like UGH why is ferra/torr back in mk11 when Sareena/Li Mei should be there instead

also i've never been vocal on these threads so i'm just trying to comment with everyone

Allow me to sort of explain my reasoning for wanting more 3D era characters. I started playing MK as a young lad in the early 90s both in the arcades and at home on my Genesis. My friends played it too, and MK became a popular thing to talk about on the playground especially around 93 and 94. I loved the original characters because they were all I’d ever known. However, right around the time of MK Trilogy and eventually MK4 I started branching out into other fighting games more seriously.

Y’know...Soul Blade/Edge, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Bloody Roar/Beastorizer, King of Fighters, Street Fighter, etc.

This was also around the time I was becoming a snobbish teenager. I immediately noticed how much better these other games where compared to MK. Most didn’t have the violence, but all of them had better fighting systems with characters that felt distinct and different from one another. The characters in these games though is what made me shun Mortal Kombat.

DISCLAIMER: Everyone’s preferences and opinions are valid, and what appeals to me may not appeal to others. That’s fine. The following paragraph(s) are only explaining my mindset at the time.*

As a young teenager I would look at characters like Ibuki from SF3, or Yugo from Bloody Roar, or Mitsurugi from Soul Blade/Edge and marvel at how cool I thought they all were. Then I would look back at the MK1-3 characters and wonder both silently and aloud why everyone seemed to be a palette swap character OR why they’re wearing some strange and brightly colored spandex ensemble. Female characters especially were bad with this...they either wore a goofy leotard or they were a 90s-era gym queen. In hindsight the designs make sense coming from a comic artist in John Tobias, but at the time I thought the MK roster(s) were generally awful compared to their competitors.

This mindset got cemented in my head around the time Soul Calibur came out on the Dreamcast. Soul Calibur was so vastly superior in every single way to MK Gold. I fell in love with SC’s character designs, especially those like Xianghua and Killik. I really thought MK was dead and that it didn’t deserve to continue when everything else was so much better in every way.

Now fast forward a little bit and I stumbled upon MK5.org and some early screenshots of Deadly Alliance. My perceptions were instantly shattered. I saw awesome 3D stages, I saw characters having unique and actual martial arts, and I saw character designs that didn’t look like they were ripped from a mediocre 90s indie comic book. Li Mei became my favorite MK character just based purely on her looks and nothing else (back when she was still listed as a “student from Earthrealm” believe it or not...). So it was that Li Mei became my main for the next three installments of the franchise.

Li Mei, as pathetic as it may sound, saved Mortal Kombat for me...as did the 3D era in general even if in hindsight they maybe weren’t that great. Sure some characters were one dimensional, but that’s more on the writing more than anything else. Now that NRS has professional writers, and some AWESOME concept/character artists...I want to see how these characters would fare in the modern day.

It’s easy to say “get over it” when your main is in the game and mine isn’t - and hasn’t been in over a freaking decade. I have alternates like Jade and Johnny Cage, but there hasn’t been a character in the past two MKs that made me want to keep playing. Without a character like Li Mei to latch onto, MK just gets lost in a sea of other fighting games that DO give me my mains back every single time. I’m TOTALLY ok with these types of characters being DLC in Kombat Packs...I just want to see them again.

TL/DR: Li Mei saved my love for MK as did the 3D era in general...and I want to see how they fare in the current day with better writing and imaginative character designers.

Yeah, it's for reasons like this that the people who think the 3D characters should/will stay gone are just as misguided as the ones who sound like they want all the 3D characters back in one game.

What'd you think of Li Mei's updated appearance in MKX?

Just a brief little thing i want to toss in regarding the potential of 3D characters and/or the 3D era...

I absolutely loved Nitara, Cyrax & Reptile's story in Deadly Alliance, and thought it was one of the better executed entanglements of this franchise, even if it was fairly simple and straightforward (IE. Not a super elaborate or convoluted subplot). I loved that not only did all their bios tie together, but all their endings tied together, and not only built upon eachother without contradicting one another, but also eventually proved to be a canon lead-in to the next game. I liked that you didn't quite know how much Nitara was actually helping Cyrax & Reptile and how much she was using them. I liked that you didn't quite know if her motives in the longterm were good or evil. I liked that Reptile had something to do other than be a henchman, and was actually working toward his own ends for a change (even if those ends were... somewhat to once again be a henchman). I liked that Cyrax found life beyond just being another brainwashed cyborg w/ the special forces. I liked the whole thing! It sucked me in. And it made me want more of Nitara as a character.

And then I didn't get it. Oh she came back in Armageddon, but it was just as half-hearted an effort as every other character in Armageddon. They threw her into a rivalry with Ashrah out of left field that ultimately went nowhere, and had no presence in the game itself at all, beyond Nitara & Ashrah's website bios.

I want more Nitara dammit.

Well you never gonna get it. When Ed Boon doesn't like a character, he doesn't like a character.