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LucaTurilli
12/15/2010 04:23 PM (UTC)
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You crack me up, buddy.

Keep trying to referee your own argument with yourself.


And no, Boon never said bosses were playable in an interview.
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Mojo6
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12/15/2010 04:25 PM (UTC)
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Here let me throw this out there:

Part of the impact of having playable bosses is three-fold:

A) From a "Wow" factor standpoint, having to work through a game's progression to finally confront the antagonist is part of the appeal...the visual and narrative payoff for earning your way to the top of the mountain. That "big reveal" impact is tremendously diminished with having the boss as playable.

B) From a difficulty standpoint, part of learning how to defeat a character directly correlates to time spent exposed to that character. By truncating the frequency a player gets to witness and learn a bosses attack patterns, attack properties, and the enemy AI it increases the challenge of the game.

C) From a balance standpoint, by having the boss character as non-playable the character can be designed with properties that distinguish themselves from the regular roster again to increase difficulty, challenge, and replay value. If the developers also have to tweak a boss to be balanced as a playable character, that diminishes the potency of the boss from a design standpoint.

As much as I like Kahn, I'd rather have him non-playable to make that climb to the top of the Kombat Tower more rewarding.

But whatever, I get that people like Kahn and want to play as Emperor Badass. So with that in mind, I think I have a fair compromise:

Make him playable...but unlockable via difficult but not impossible means that a player has to EARN with mastering the mechanics of the game. No cheat code, no simple "beat the game with everyone" but a legit player skill gated lock.

This way both sides get what they want as Kahn would be playable but he wouldn't be playable without people legitimately getting good at the game (not just time spent).
ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
TheBlackRanger Wrote:
Haha, I can always count on these threads for entertaining arguments.

But really, where did Boon confirm the sub-boss characters would be playable? Not being bitchy, I'm just curious.


Someone made a thread down below about an article in a mag-

"Those are classic combos and maybe something that players can look to. Did we put a special move for when Raiden is with Shao Kahn or Raiden is with Liu Kang or something? Those are the ones we really want people to be able to discover"

He also said it in an interview a while back that they would be unlockable if I'm not mistaken. I don't know which specific one. They will be playable. I don't get all the denial.


Ah yes because everything Boon has said has been proven to be true.
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QueenAhnka
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Rebel. Outsider. Fan Of The Obscure. Politically Incorrect. Spitfire!

12/15/2010 04:28 PM (UTC)
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Mojo6 Wrote:
Here let me throw this out there:

Part of the impact of having playable bosses is three-fold:

A) From a "Wow" factor standpoint, having to work through a game's progression to finally confront the antagonist is part of the appeal...the visual and narrative payoff for earning your way to the top of the mountain. That "big reveal" impact is tremendously diminished with having the boss as playable.

B) From a difficulty standpoint, part of learning how to defeat a character directly correlates to time spent exposed to that character. By truncating the frequency a player gets to witness and learn a bosses attack patterns, attack properties, and the enemy AI it increases the challenge of the game.

C) From a balance standpoint, by having the boss character as non-playable the character can be designed with properties that distinguish themselves from the regular roster again to increase difficulty, challenge, and replay value. If the developers also have to tweak a boss to be balanced as a playable character, that diminishes the potency of the boss from a design standpoint.

As much as I like Kahn, I'd rather have him non-playable to make that climb to the top of the Kombat Tower more rewarding.

But whatever, I get that people like Kahn and want to play as Emperor Badass. So with that in mind, I think I have a fair compromise:

Make him playable...but unlockable via difficult but not impossible means that a player has to EARN with mastering the mechanics of the game. No cheat code, no simple "beat the game with everyone" but a legit player skill gated lock.

This way both sides get what they want as Kahn would be playable but he wouldn't be playable without people legitimately getting good at the game (not just time spent).


Fair enough and well said.
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LucaTurilli
12/15/2010 04:32 PM (UTC)
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Mojo6 Wrote:
This way both sides get what they want as Kahn would be playable but he wouldn't be playable without people legitimately getting good at the game (not just time spent).


I would be down with this, provided that it really does take some skill to unlock him. I could see a lot of players getting pissed, though, at being unable to unlock him

You'd probably see him available for purchase on XBLA and PSN, though.
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JediSith
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The enemy of my enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

12/15/2010 04:34 PM (UTC)
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Mojo6 Wrote:
Make him playable...but unlockable via difficult but not impossible means that a player has to EARN with mastering the mechanics of the game. No cheat code, no simple "beat the game with everyone" but a legit player skill gated lock.

This way both sides get what they want as Kahn would be playable but he wouldn't be playable without people legitimately getting good at the game (not just time spent).

I'm pretty sure that's how it's gonna go down.
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ShaolinChuan
12/15/2010 04:36 PM (UTC)
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Being that they are showing mac this early, I'm assuming he won't be a secret character or unlockable, perhaps playable right from the start.

The hints that were given to us "a character that did not exist before will now be real". I know those weren't the exact words, but along those lines, lead me to believe that Ermac was going to be super secret. Guess not.
:|

huh?
But Ermac was real in UMK3 and even besides that I took that quote to mean in the WHOLE series. I don't think I understand where you're coming from there.
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ShaolinChuan
12/15/2010 04:48 PM (UTC)
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Ion3008 Wrote:
:|

huh?
But Ermac was real in UMK3 and even besides that I took that quote to mean in the WHOLE series.

I don't think I understand where you're coming from there.


He wasn't exactly real in MK1, and well since this game is a retelling of the first 3, i thought they were going back to the old secrets.
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Mojo6
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12/15/2010 04:49 PM (UTC)
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ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
Fair enough and well said.


LucaTurilli Wrote:
I would be down with this, provided that it really does take some skill to unlock him.


*Somewhere, a rainbow is blooming from Shang Tsung's outspread arms as Luca and Ahnka actually agree on something.*

LucaTurilli Wrote:

I could see a lot of players getting pissed, though, at being unable to unlock him

You'd probably see him available for purchase on XBLA and PSN, though.


Yeah that's the unfortunate downside of "games being a business first" and probably what would end up happening. I was thinking along the lines of something like an Akuma unlock that incorporated specific MK mechanics and criteria in conjunction. (I.E beat the game having not lost a round/used a continue, won by a certain number of X-Ray attacks, performed a fatality at the end of each match, and beat Kahn without taking damage.)
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QueenAhnka
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Rebel. Outsider. Fan Of The Obscure. Politically Incorrect. Spitfire!

12/15/2010 04:57 PM (UTC)
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LucaTurilli Wrote:
I would be down with this, provided that it really does take some skill to unlock him.


"Being able to use them takes away from their presence as a boss, regardless."- Your words. Just putting that out there.wink
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Dragonkeeper1982
12/15/2010 04:59 PM (UTC)
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I don't think that Ermac isnt the fighter(s) they were talkin about never being part of the story now is. He's been a fan favorite/crew favorite now since UMK3 and I don't think they forgot about him or that concept. I'd have to say since Blaze(Torch)/Hornbuckle have been replaced in the background and just to fix the old rumor "Hornbuckle Who?" and for Raiden to stop Armaggedon early, I think we'll see both Blaze in MKDA form and Hornbuckle. Yet again Skarlett also be in after seeing that red female clothing, unless it's Sareena. Now, if only the MK kharacters can kill Quan Chi and Blaze, they've fixed most or at least changed the story some. Look at all that Quan Chi has done, Scorpion/SubZero(x2), turned on Shang Tsung's alliance, Shao Khan, Shinnok, damn he's the one that stirred the whole pot since MK3 with Sindel's ressurection.
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JAX007
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12/15/2010 05:20 PM (UTC)
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Kratos looks straight out of GoW3, looks great.
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looktolaluna
12/15/2010 05:44 PM (UTC)
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ShaolinChuan Wrote:
Being that they are showing mac this early, I'm assuming he won't be a secret character or unlockable, perhaps playable right from the start.

The hints that were given to us "a character that did not exist before will now be real". I know those weren't the exact words, but along those lines, lead me to believe that Ermac was going to be super secret. Guess not.


Yeah, this is definitely not talking about Ermac. The only character that would fit this description would be "Hornbuckle" from Pit 2 stage Mortal Kombat 2. If that is the case, damn, I don't see how he's going to be fit in to the story aside from maybe another temple of light disciple.
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NickScryer
12/15/2010 06:18 PM (UTC)
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BTW
Forgot to mention that Ermac looks sick! Loving the fact that he's covered almost completely from top to bottom. Everything looks good to me, even his pants are VERY Liu Kang -ish. :)


Can't wait to see some gameplay.
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Dragonkeeper1982
12/15/2010 07:41 PM (UTC)
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I hope that if they keep Ermac's Greenball, then Shao Khan should get his MK2 Spear move back so both arent the same. I'd rather see Ermac's MKD projectile, it was unique and I called it his NIKE swoosh.
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LucaTurilli
12/15/2010 07:48 PM (UTC)
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ProfesserAhnka Wrote:
LucaTurilli Wrote:
I would be down with this, provided that it really does take some skill to unlock him.


"Being able to use them takes away from their presence as a boss, regardless."- Your words. Just putting that out there.wink


God, you are a little bitch aren't ya? Gotta provoke. I can't tell if you're just dumb or you're trying to keep arguing.

If Shao Khan has a heavy skilled prerequisite, it would retain at least some of his presence as a boss character.

I never said I liked the idea of him being unlockable, as it would conjure many other problems. But it'd be a hell of a lot better than just having him playable and making him seem nothing more than a regular character.
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MysticPoetry
12/15/2010 08:03 PM (UTC)
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Well I'm kinda confused on Krato's announcement the other night at the VGAS because I assumed this Mk would be a retro throwback to the first three MK's! But nonetheless I think it's kinda sweet he's in. And as far as Ermac I mean I'm thrilled he looks amazing! So that also means that Goro render is clearly 100% confirmed.
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Keith
12/15/2010 08:58 PM (UTC)
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Ermac looks hot. I wonder would sex with Ermac be considered an orgy.


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Spirit_Wolf
12/15/2010 09:07 PM (UTC)
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JAX007 Wrote:
Kratos looks straight out of GoW3, looks great.

He probably really comes straight out of God of War III. I don't think they going spend time modelling him while they easily could ask the model from the creators themselves.
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StatueofLiberty
12/15/2010 09:11 PM (UTC)
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Keith Wrote:
Ermac looks hot. I wonder would sex with Ermac be considered an orgy.


Excuse me while I go scrape my brains off the ceiling because you just blew my mind!
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.
12/16/2010 12:49 AM (UTC)
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Yey!

Ermac is in! Yey!


Tyrant-Cenobite Wrote:
Scans of any sort are forbidden on these forums. Asking for them is also not permitted either.


You're a God?

I was so gone too long.
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Manneen
12/16/2010 01:59 AM (UTC)
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Riyakou Wrote:
Yey!

Ermac is in! Yey!


Tyrant-Cenobite Wrote:
Scans of any sort are forbidden on these forums. Asking for them is also not permitted either.


You're a God?

I was so gone too long.



"Are you a God?"

haha anyways yeah TC got promoted and he is now News Correspondent I believe.

Anyways, I ended up seeing the pics elsewhere so I can comment on them. I love this look for Ermac. Seeing Kratos in there makes me wonder how he'll play, I wanna see gameplay footage. He is using his chain blades (whatever the fuck they're called), I wonder what he'll have for special moves.
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prettyboycj100
12/16/2010 02:23 AM (UTC)
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LucaTurilli Wrote:
You crack me up, buddy.

Keep trying to referee your own argument with yourself.


And no, Boon never said bosses were playable in an interview.

yea he did wen jax was revealed
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Jest0311
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You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

Psn- Copperhead0311 Xblive- Criss2fur

12/16/2010 05:44 AM (UTC)
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So the talk with Kratos has me wondering if he will pull a gorgon head out of his ass and have a move similar to Sub's freeze.
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