Let's see if I can come up with some possible explainations...

1.Raiden has had this power before, but he never used it (Or has he?)

-Maybe he needed some kind of telepathical permission from the elder gods. Maybe they couldn't let him just use that power because he was using, but now they knew that Shao Kahn would destroy all of existance by bringing all the realms together.

2. Raiden uses this power to alter time... and the Elder Gods are okay with it?

-Again, maybe he was able to do it only because the Elder Gods let him. Because they would be destroyed if they let Shao Kahn win.

3. Raiden's time powers negate the stakes of battle and abilities of every single other warrior on the battlefied.

- I really don't think I can say anything about this. Yes, it undoes everyone's work in the ten years between MK1 and Armageddon.

4. Do other Elder Gods have the ability to warp time?

-I'm sure if a lesser god could, then an elder god can too. Maybe they operate on lesser Gods. Think they knew this was it, so they "Unlocked" Raiden's ability to send back the messege because they won't interfere directly.

5. Is Raiden manipulating time in the past even a good idea to begin with?

-I think this is a yes. Sure, all Shao Kahn would do is conquer realms, but in MK lore, aren't the realms just shattered thoughts of the one being? So if Shao Kahn were to bring all the realms together, wouldn't that reawaken the one being and kill everyone and everything, including the Elder Gods?

6. Would altering the past give those in the future a fate WORSE than death?

-I don't know if this MK will be going by the rule that Terminator/Back to the Future go by. In other words, the Johnny Cage of this game that's alive and well is the same exact Johnny Cage as the one who gets decapitated ten years later, not a parallel universe copy. So pretty much everything that happens after Raiden gets his visions is constantly changing.

7. Why did Raiden send a message over 10 YEARS into the past to change the outcome of an event that happened less than a few moments ago?

-My guess is that that's when all the trouble really started, all of the plans failed, and Raiden had to attack the problem at its source. After all,

8.The Causality Loop

-I highly, highly doubt this, not because of hypothetical theories, just because NRS wouldn't allow the same thing over and over again

So there's what I have to say about it. I don't know for sure if some of those things are right, but that's the way I always saw it.

Well at least we now know how EVERYONE came back for Armageddon...

Spoilers ahead...

I feel like...

Even if old timeline pre-dark Raiden wouldn't muck around with the timeline...

At the end of THIS game... it would still be logical for him to do so.

When this game ends, Raiden is aware that time has already been mucked with, and he knows that his own false interpretation of original timeline Dark Raiden's message has just screwed things up MORE...

So wheras MKA Dark Raiden sent MK1 Raiden a vague, panicked, last-ditch unclear message that brought about ...



Why can't post-MK9 Raiden send MK1 Raiden a calm, detailed, less-vague message from the future that says, "Now when I say 'He Must Win' here's what I actually MEAN by that..."

So that MK1 Raiden can simply, let MK1 and MK2's events unfold as they should, and in MK3 allow Kahn to take Earthrealm without putting his people in the line of fire.

Because MK3 is the story where the timeline starts to majorly go crazy in this game. MK1 and MK2 aren't identical, but they're more or less the same. Except for Sub-Zero.

I can see where MKDA Raiden and the beginning of MKD Raiden wouldn't muck with time... because they don't know what the future holds, and they believe that the good guys can win without the need to muck with the past...

But post-MK9 Raiden KNOWS that events in THIS game could have turned out better, with fewer casualties, and still does nothing. Get what I'm saying?

This is what I think:

I don't believe Raiden has done this before. When Raiden turned Dark, he more or less confirmed that he would do all it takes to protect Earthrealm from harm, no matter the cost. He tried many other possibilities, but in the end, they all failed. He even tried to make a pact with Shao Kahn, who in the end betrayed him and kills him.

However, right before Raiden gets killed, he tries one last attempt, one very desperate attempt, to save Earthrealm - and at this point, he doesn't really care about anything else than that. Shao Kahn is bound to take over Earthrealm after he won the Armageddon, and Raiden will not have that!

So out of desperation a thought is spawned into his mind: What if he can alter the past by sending his past self a message? And thus Raiden attempts to do so, not knowing if he will succeed or not. It's the last choice he has if he is to save Earthrealm from harm.

Because his amulet is broken, I don't think he could really control its power when he used it to send his past self this message - hence why Past Raiden gets all these visions and images along with one message "He must win!" which seems to be all cluttered up and a real mess in his head.

So yes, Raiden cheated. But I don't think he's done it before or even thought about doing it before. His dark mind simply saw it as the only thing to do...

^This
Only dark Raiden with interfere with the fate of the realms

I think Raiden did this because certain events from the first tournament onward may link to Armageddon. If I was him I would have sent it back further so NRS had an excuse to remake Special Forces and Mythologies into much better games. lol.

"Only you are caught in the infinite loop"

The basic answer: MK's storyline had gotten to the point where a) the writers just couldn't come up with any logical continuation of the storyline. B) they said fuck it and decided to just wipe the slate clean. That's been discussed to death.

Boon said there'd would be a new cast of fighters with some old survivors from MKA in 06-07 for the then discussed MK game. Instead we get BAD END for timeline A.

Also, since Kahn wins, logically his MKA ending ensues and he goes insane from uniting the realm, the One Being awakens and possesses Kahn/ just reabsorb everything. Elder Gods dead and its the wrong path. That timeline still exists and it sucks for that timeline.

One possibility from the origin has resulted in an undesirable outcome, so Raiden uses retcon plot power to send a time signal. Electricity, energy, light? His messages travel faster than the speed of light. Lets not try to apply string-theory or metaphysics to a fighting game.

So Timeline Bad results in a dead end.
Timeline Unknown serves as the restart point/reboot excuse. So now Good Raiden gets a chance to fix things? Problem is there a ton of things that need fixing or altering. The downside to this "solution" result in as its implied this universe is fated for a more "grim dark" setting where Armageddeon is averted somewhat, but different outcome occurs with relatively same result.

Now the question is what characters will change that become vaguely aware of Raiden's little games plays a role in this timeline and storyline of this universe. It sounds like they want to change alot, so hey works for me. But still, I'm anticipating a grim dark setting where war is eternal and worse situations arise.

Oh and the idea of casualty loop can be negated or countered with the multiple world/timeline theory. It doesn't mean its the definite truth, just an equal alternative to the casualty theory you used Garlador.

SCIENCE!

It would be hilarious if during the MK2 segment of the story, Raiden is talking with Liu Kang about fate and what not as they are just walking across one of the bridges at the Pit II.

Then as they are talking, they walk past Hornbuckle and Raiden casually shoves Blaze off the bridge and they continue on walking and talking about fate and what not.

That's ridiculous, Shao Kahn's ultimate goal is the exact opposite of what the Elder Gods want to happen to the universe: the uniting of the realms, which would cause the return of the One Being and the end of all existence.
And dammit, Garlador, stop using the word "Elder" when talking about Raiden and Fujin. You should know better.

I thought Taven's ending was the outcome... which leads Shao Kahn to kill people. Doesn't anyone thing that Raiden's Time Travel Power came from Blaze?

1) Raiden has this power, yet has never used it before (or has he)?

This seems to have been presented to me as something Raiden didn't know he was doing, or only realized he could do in his most desperate moment. From what I've seen the message is very unclear and he does not know how to act on it in the past. It seems like a very risky and haphazard move, not something he would want to pull off that often.


2) Raiden uses his powers to alter time itself... and the Elder Gods are okay with this?

Argus has to create the pyramid of power because clearly the Elder Gods do not have complete control over everything. I do not think it is all predetermined by them, they are just overseers who would probably like their subordinates to think they have everything planned out.

Also, what is to say that Kahn didn't cheat to achieve his victory? Maybe this is why Raiden was driven to do this. Besides, things got out of hand and Kahn was gaining too much, destroying too much good. It seems clear that they lured Raiden and the Earthrealm warriors to the Netherrealm through trickery, so that's not exactly fair, and it spiraled out of control. I think that it would not be cheap to try to go back and prevent this.


3) Raiden's time powers negate the stakes of battle and abilities of every single other warrior on the battlefied.

It's clear that Raiden can't just pull this off willy-nilly. As I said previously, he likely did not even know he could or does not have much control over it. Again, it seems that Raiden has a very incomplete ability to modify space/time.

He, of course, is attempting to change the events of the last 10 years and is potentially erasing the efforts of the warriors in that time, but I have more thoughts on this later.


4) Do other Elder Gods have the ability to warp time?

Elder Gods have not always been Elder Gods; they seem to have gained this status over time. There is no reason not to believe that Raiden may possess a power that the others have not discovered or cannot have. It's also possible that it is simply too dangerous or obfuscating and is outlawed, potentially hidden and unspoken of to the point where few know of it. Again, the Elder Gods clearly do not have absolute control over everything that happens.


5) Is Raiden manipulating time in the past even a good idea to begin with?

It may not be.


6) Would altering the past give those in the future a fate WORSE than death?

I agree with much of what you say here. However, there are many theories about a Multiverse and this is a fictional universe we're talking about. It's possible that a positive outcome for Earthrealm was just not likely enough to occur in most of the universes, and sending the message could modify the probability wave so that more universes end up with the positive result. Perhaps it would even become the most probable occurance and would therefore become the reality experienced by the soul or aura of the characters, should you believe in that sort of thing, and in the MK universe it seems like one should.

Perhaps it merely tore open a new universe, so that there are now (at least) two, one in which things might end up positive. It would be a selfless act for Raiden, but at least another version of him and the people he cared about could then survive.

Those are the main possibilities that I can see that would avoid the causality loop that you reference later. But perhaps a linear timeline does not need to fall prey to this. I can imagine his message acting as a giant eraser, sliding backwards down the timeline and rearranging space/time, carrying the "point of causality" at the very end all the way back until the message stops 10 years in the past.


7) Why did Raiden send a message over 10 YEARS into the past to change the outcome of an event that happened less than a few moments ago?

Perhaps he simply could not pinpoint where the message stopped well enough because of his limited control over this power. Or perhaps the first event that caused everything to go sour takes place that long ago (the butterfly effect that you mention).


8) The Causality Loop

I covered this one in my response to 6.


That's just my take on it. I love discussing quantum mechanics and the nature of space/time, and applying it to MK is fun! :)

Personally, I'd LIKE to believe that the reason they purposely made Raiden screw everything up and make things worse than they were the first time is because their plans for the sequel will involve someone else "undoing the damage" because it's the only way to save the world from a Shinnok whose army of dead MK characters is unstoppable.

On the other hand, Vogel seems to really enjoy writing stories where the heroes lose and fail...

Whatever the case may be, it's still hilarious to me that a plot designed to prevent Armageddon ended up not even having Taven, Daegon, or Blaze show up. Perhaps something else to hope for in a sequel: that one of these dumbasses will realize what ACTUALLY CAUSED Armageddon..

Midway being a bunch of greedy douchebags?
That's all I got.

Midway is deceased.

Lol. Any protagonist created by Vogel has to be retarded or a stooge pigeon. Taven actually be snarky and intelligent? Pipe dream Razor. We can only hope someone can notice it in the sequel.

Amazing job, OP. I am actually amazed that you could think of this. This is actually the best post I've ever read since I joined MKO. It makes you think, ya know? Anyways.... Is anyone here forgetting something? Have you guys ever seen the 'Final Destination' series? Where everyone is meant to die? What if the people that died throughout the storyline was MEANT to die and if they happen to 'cheat' death(via time-travel) they will still die, no matter what. 1) Raiden has this power, yet has never used it before (or has he)? Raiden has never used this ability. His might and willpower combined with the power of the Amulet sent pictures and thoughts into his very own mind ten years ago. Like he planted a message in his head. 6) Would altering the past give those in the future a fate WORSE than death? Like eternal damnation in the NetherRealm? Most likely. But what if those that didn't die, now actually die. Like what if Night Wolf dies? Night Wolf was the one that bound Onaga to the Nether Realm. If he dies, who will stop Onaga from running rampant? 7) Why did Raiden send a message over 10 YEARS into the past to change the outcome of an event that happened less than a few moments ago? Probably because that's where all the trouble began.

No it's not.

The trouble began when Delia created Blaze and Argus created the pyramid.

Unless you consider Shao Kahn "the trouble", which would be dumb but whatever. If you consider him the trouble, he started conquering worlds hundreds of thousands of years ago. Nothing that happened in Armageddon was caused by MK1 thru 3. There is no "trouble" in the original MK1 thru 3. everything that happened in MK1 thru 3 was fucking roses and ponies and rainbows for the good guys, they won from every angle, so Raiden didn't make anything better, every single thing is worse for him as a result of his time meddling than it was the first time around.
And Raiden's whole "Kill him before Armageddon so he can't win Armageddon" plan is especially retarded when you take into account that the result of killing Shao Kahn is that Quan Chi and Shinnok get Shao Kahn's soul and can just resurrect him whenever the fuck they want, so even after everything Raiden did in MK9, Shao Kahn could STILL fucking win Armageddon, because he was only treating a goddamn symptom, Blaze is the disease.

If he was going yo send a message to prevent Armegeddon it obviously failed. there isn't anyway we could see Armegeddon if he fixed it. Taking a piece of the bill & Ted time theory, if you tell yourself "if I ever get the chance to go back in time i'll ___ so that ___ won't happen" and all of a sudden ___ appears out of no where meaning they did find a way to get to the machine, but it was only after they defeated the antagonist. If raiden told his past self "do this to stop armageddon" wouldn't it have never happend? Meaning that if the plan had worked he wouldn't even be in the trouble he was in and he wouldn't even exist.

You're talking about a paradox.

The changes Raiden makes in MK9 would cause a paradox anyway if there were paradoxes in MK's version of time travel, but there apparently aren't.

There are always paradoxes, some are just harder to find or are covered up for the sake of storytelling.

Technically the trouble began when Hornbuckle and the rest of Onaga's Holy Men captured Blaze and corrupted him, thus screwing up the outcome of his defeat. As per Taven's ending.

Delia and Argus were just trying to prevent a different Armageddon. Onaga's cronies are the ones who ultimately screwed it up.

In theory, if everything Delia and Argus laid out had gone according to plan, on a realmwide scale, everything would be fine for all of us with no world ending consequences, the kombatants themselves are the only ones who'd get screwed. (Being dead or depowered).

That said, I agree, it still doesn't make any sense for Raiden to go as far back as MK1 with this information.

Even if you believed, as Raiden seems to, that letting Kahn win in MK3 would stop all of this, MK1 and MK2 could remain unaltered and it wouldn't make a difference.

But I think we all know that the REAL reason he contacts MK1 Raiden is that the developers wanted to remake ALL THREE games, not just MK3.

History Abhors A Paradox. My god haven't any of you played Legacy of Kain or seen the new Star Trek? Time won't allow a paradox so it works it's way around things for certain events to be rewritten. Otherwise creating an alternate timeline.

That's a bunch of bullshit. Armageddon WASN'T ACTUALLY NECESSARY, there was no reason to kill or depower anybody in the first place because "too many fighters using their powers at once and tearing the realms apart" never would have happened if Blaze didn't exist.

Armageddon only happened in the first place because everyone ever gathered to fight Blaze and steal his power. Hell, half the people who showed up to the pyramid were already dead and were let out of Hell by Shinnok because Shinnok was deliberately provoking Blaze into setting off Armageddon because Shinnok was the first guy to want the prize.
If there had never, ever been a Blaze, there would never, ever have been an Armageddon. Onaga's holy men changing his energy may have had an effect on what the prize did to Taven, but that never would've mattered if there'd been no Blaze in the first place. (Besides, Kahn seems to have beaten Blaze and gotten the prize, not Taven, according to the opening of MK9, so the kill-or-depower thing doesn't even matter)

That's called a self-fulfilling prophecy. By seeing a vision of a future catastrophe and trying to avoid it, you accidentally turn out to be the cause of the catastrophe in the first place and the REAL way to avoid it would have actually been to ignore the vision.

Argus, Delia, and Blaze are the cause of Armageddon and the only way to prevent Armageddon is to destroy Blaze before the pyramid rises and he takes on his final, prize-giving form.

And you know this because what? You're a fictional elder god in the fictional universe and you have a complete handle on what all the fictional powers are and aren't capable of? Got a real good grasp on the stability of the fictional fabric of the fictional realms do you?

They tell us right in the damn intro to Armageddon...

"...ages of Mortal Kombat have begun to tear the fabric of the realms."

"It was foreseen that the kombatants would one day grow too powerful and too numerous."

"If left unchecked their intensifying kombat would weaken and shatter the realms."

That's not DELIA talking, it's a narrator laying out the story for the gamer.

I know what a damned self fufilling prophecy is, but this WASN'T one. Delia's prophecy wasn't that Shao Kahn would bitchslap reality into Armageddon, it was that the combined powers of all the kombatants would eventually tear the realms apart.

So, believing said prophecy, since they're gods and all... she and Argus put together this plan with Blaze to prevent that Armageddon, but Onaga's indirect dicking with their plan inevitably gave Kahn the tools he needed to succeed, and we just ended up trading one Armageddon for another.

Again, if everything had gone to plan, we'd have a bunch of depowered or dead kombatants and the realms would be perfectly fine.

Now yes, I agree one could argue if Blaze never existed, Kahn wouldn't have destroyed the realms THIS way, presented in MK9... but if Blaze never existed whose to say things wouldn't have ended the other way? We're lead to believe the realms still would have been destroyed the way Delia foresaw. You don't KNOW that her prophecy was false any better than anyone else does.

Because I payed attention while playing the game and reading all the bios released online.

Never said the prophecy was "false", I said it was self-fulfilling. And you're wrong, it absolutely was. Attempting to prevent it is exactly what caused it to come true.

Delia's vision said the realms were going to tear apart because 60+ powered guys were going to gather and fight in a single spot, using their powers all at once against each other.

But the ONLY reason 60+ powered guys gathered to fight in a single spot was because they all heard about and wanted Blaze's prize.

No Prize = no motivation for 60 powered people in the same spot fighting a war = no Armageddon.

Common sense.