When he spared Reptile i thought the same thing

Part of me wonders if that was just coincidence of if they meant it to be that way.

If they did intend it to be that way, will they follow up on the second part of that story? Could Scorpion be the one who possibly helps Sub-Zero get reverted back to his human form. Maybe he will feel responsible for getting Sub-Zero turned into a cyborg. Afterall Sub-Zero was just fighting for his brother, and if Scorpion learns that Quan Chi lied to him all along he will realize this possibly having Quan Chi agree to revert Sub-Zero to his human form in exchange for his service. Scorpion constantly is fighting for his family, so he should understand where Sub-Zero was coming from.

Anyway, I still wonder if Scorpion was indeed watching him, or if he somehow knew that Kuai Liang indeed wasn't the Sub-Zero he knew?

I actually can't remember Subby sparing Reptile, then again I only played through story mode once, on release day, Is it in Subs chapter? Might youtube it.

Yeah, during Sub's chapter, when he first comes to the Koliseum and demands to fight Scorpion, Kahn makes him fight Reptile first and after he beats him, he says "I would kill you, but that is not my purpose here" or something like that.

I don't think Scorpion knowing right away that he isn't Bi-Han was any kind of attempt to reflect the original story from MK2 and 3, because in MK9, what Scorpion does with that information is completely different.

In the old timeline, Quan Chi never had him on a leash, he just let him out of Hell to roam free and expected him to kill Sub-Zeroes, like a fire-and-forget human revenge missile.

So in MK2 and 3, Scorp didn't know why he was still walking around as a Spectre after he believed his revenge was achieved (because he didn't know Quan Chi was the real guy he needed to get his revenge on) so first he thought "Wait, Sub-Zero's still running around? I thought I killed that guy! I better go to this new tournament and finish the job," then he learned Kuai isn't Bi-Han and decided "Well maybe I'm not resting in peace because I need to make up for my sins. I killed this dude's brother, so I'll start by watching his back."

In MK9, however, Scorpion's working directly for Quan Chi at all times and has no choice in when, where, or why he's brought out of Hell to fight. He's also not even in the room when Sub spares Reptile so we don't see him learn "Wait, this isn't the same guy," it just seems like the moment he shows up, he can just automatically tell by looking at him, or already knew. AND he hates him and wants to fight him anyway just because "your brother had no honor, and you will die as he did", so Scorp doesn't seem to know or care that he spared Reptile and has a less evil personality than Bi-Han, he assumes Kuai deserves to die as much as his brother did.

And then when they fight, Sub wins and would have killed Scorpion if the cyborgs hadn't showed up, which definitely isn't what happened in MK2. In MK2, there's some kind of confrontation or fight where Scorp lets Sub live and Sub spends some time wondering why, but never tries to fight him and avenge his brother again because he's got bigger stuff to worry about like the Outworld invasion and his clan turning against him.
(Of course in MK2, Sub's motive wasn't "avenge my brother" at all, it was "finish my brother's mission", with the possibility of avenging him only coming up the first time he met Scorpion. In MK9, Bi-Han doesn't even have a mission left incomplete, he worked FOR Shang instead of being hired to kill him.)

Exactly, with every comma included, what Razor said.
Plus, I remember Scorpion exclaming: "What's this!You're NOT Sub-Zero!"

So i Think Scorpy just recognize Subby's face being somehow different.
That was the reason why, in the original storyline, many fan believed that Scorpion did the scar on Subby's face,to distinguish him from his sibling. Of course that's just speculation, I don't think it's EVER revealed HOW Subby got his scar.

The most common and most logical guess regarding the scar is that, because he didn't get it in MK2, but already had it when MK3 started, it must've happened during the escape from the Lin Kuei because that was the only thing he was doing between the two games.
But yeah, they never actually said for sure how it happened (well...Kung Lao did it in Shaolin Monks but Shaolin Monks is a non-canon clusterfuck), and probably never will now since instead of scarring him, they turned him into a robot and who knows how many decades it'll be before they ever do another series reboot and remake MK3, let alone make one that actually adheres to the old continuity...
Y'know, other series like Resident Evil and the 2D Final Fantasies were able to remake their old games in new graphics just fine withOUT getting the story all confused and wrong...just throwin' that out there.

I guess I sort of have a problem with that scene as well then. I mean how the hell does he know it's a different Sub-Zero?

How does he know Bi-han wasn't ressurrected or something of the sort like Scorpion himself was? How the hell does he know it's a different Sub-Zero because Kuai Liang had a mask on. They just as easily could have been the same for all that he knew.

Anyway, I also agree. Story's have been rebooting for years and not completely f**king things up. However, Ed Boon sure did manage to. I wanted to see how the scar happened. It is a friggin trademark of Sub-Zero and I wanted to know. The only chance I can see of it still happening is Sub-Zero getting reverted to human form and then placing a scar over his own eye to always remind him of what the Lin Kuei did to him. I would actually be okay if the scar is postponed for that reason.

If you take a closer look using the model viewer, Bi-han and Kuai Liang have a different face. And a different voice actor too, so I think Scorpion should be able to recognize one bro from the other.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and deduce that Scorpion knew it wasn't the same guy because he had just, you know, killed the fuck out of Bi-Han in hell itself.

And then, to remove any and all doubt, Kuai Liang straight up tells Scorpion that Sub-Zero was his brother, which Scorpion was left to figure out for himself in the original timeline.

My, but you guys love to overthink things sometimes. lmao

I don't know anything about the Final Fantasies but...um....Resident Evil has been retconned six ways from Sunday in the new games. At least MK9 has the premise of being a reboot. RE tries to tell us, "oh, Claire and Leon always stayed together in RE2 the whole time, seriously!" Or, "Wesker was ALWAYS intended to not die and resurrect as a super-powered bioweapon himself with a rivalry with some Russian guy with a big knife, honest!" He also went from being a double-agent looking to scam Umbrella to a comic book villian with a God-complex.

I'm not a big RE expert like I am with MK, but I'm fairly certain that Leon and Claire splitting up to do certain things during 2 is still canon, particularly all the stuff Leon did with Ada, and Wesker's desire to become a god wasn't at any point retconned into the older games, he developed that between RE4 and 5 when he met Spencer and finally had the reason the viruses were created explained to him.
Oh, also...

He killed the fuck out of Bi-Han in the old timeline too, burned him to a crisp pretty much the same. But hey, why would a man who came back from the dead and left Hell think maybe his enemy might not have stayed in Hell? I mean it's not like people ever come back from the dead or escape Hell in the Mortal Kombat universe, amirite? Say...what really did happen to that Bi-Han fellow after Scorpion killed him, anyway?

All I remember is that originally Scorpion saw Sub-Zero spare someone and then started to DEFEND him.

You missed my point, completely. How do you know Scorpion's first thoughts in the original MK2 weren't "wait, that can't be Sub-Zero, can it?" before deciding that it was and going after him anyway? Oh right, you can't, because MK2 had no dialogue or story cutscenes. The only info we get is what he eventually did, not what led him to that point.

If anything, assuming it was a different guy in a blue ninja suit is a *more* intuitive guess than assuming Bi-Han is back from the dead. Maybe Scorpion saw Kuai Liang freeze a guy in the second tournament and that's how he came to his (incorrect) conclusion. The point is that Scorpion and Noob Saibot are supposed to be special cases. People do not resurrect left, right and center in the MK-verse. (Or at least, they didn't always and aren't supposed to. You'll notice that most of the revolving-door deaths are thanks to the incredibly shitty writing of the later games backing the plot into a corner and excuses being needed to bring people back.) You have to look at it in-universe from a confused Scorpion's persepective, not out of universe from ours.

Scorpion being undead is a big deal. If it was really that common, people would be going "What, only 1 reincarnated spectre entered the tournament this year? Hmm, that's kinda weird!"

Also, we don't know how exactly Bi-Han died in the old games because again, it wasn't shown. But I can gurantee you it didn't go down "pretty much the same" because the whole thing came about in MK9 as a result of Raiden/Quan Chi fuckery that could never have taken place in MK1. EDIT: And I just remembered something else. In MK2 Scorpion "learns of Sub-Zero's return". Remember as far as he thought his revenge mission was complete and he's just minding his own business in hell at this point. It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots and say Quan Chi got in his ear and sicced his attack dog Scorpion on the new Sub-Zero. In MK9, however, Sub-Zero is already on the hunt looking to get revenge on *him* and Quan Chi and Shao Kahn just helpfully oblige.

I was just about to say "Why would Scorpion even go to the tournament except that he heard "Sub-Zero" was gonna be there?" but then you basically said it yourself.

Yes, in the old timeline, Scorpion knew ahead of time that somehow, someone named Sub-Zero was going to be at MK2, which is the whole reason he himself decided to attend MK2. Because remember, in the old timeline he wasn't a lackey, he was freelance. He had to be talked into doing stuff.

Sure, we can assume Quan Chi was the one who told him. That fits with everything else.

But even if Scorpion wasn't under the false notion that Bi-Han was the one he'd find at the tournament, personally, I think that all you'd need to do is hear the name 'Sub-Zero" and the first thought that pops into your head wouldn't be "There's more than one?", it'd be "How the hell did that guy come back?!"

Hell, that's what DID happen to US the audience when MK2 came out. We were led to believe Sub-Zero "died but mysteriously returned" until the endings revealed "Not really, it's his brother." In 1993, Scorpion knew as much as we did. And he had to watch him and tell from Kuai's actions that he's a different guy, because the brothers look nearly goddamned identical (especially when all you can see is their eyes.)

In MK9? Nope, he knows from the moment he shows up this guy ain't Sub-Zero. Scorp hasn't been watching the tournament. He was chillin' down in Hell until then. And yet, he doesn't even take a second to look Sub over and go "Waaaaait a minute..."

Speaking of which...it occurs to me that in MK9, Kuai entered the arena because Sonya and Jax told him Scorpion would be there. But Scorpion hasn't been seen in Outworld at all until he fights Sub, Sonya and Jax haven't seen him or Quan Chi since Shang's Island. Nor could they have, Jax just got there and Sonya's been in the dungeon and then the deadpool the whole time. How do they even know Kahn HAS an arena? The only tournament fight so far was held in Kahn's throne room and I don't recall Raiden mentioning a gladiator stadium to them. Nice writing. Good, strong stuff. All the point A's just flow smoothly to natural, logical Point B's...

And why should he? Notice how no one has told him that Sub-Zero is back and looking for him at this point. So his reaction, quite naturally, is less "how does he still live?!" and more "who is this asshole who wants to fight me, and why is wearing Sub-Zero's clothes?"

And this bears repeating, but Scorpion is actually RIGHT this time. It's not Sub-Zero, it's Tundra dressed in blue. I don't get why people are somehow seeing this as a plot hole.

As for the coliseum...jeez dude talk about pedantic. Is it really that hard to imagine that Raiden mentioned it *off-screen* at some point? If we're gonna play that game we might as well question how the coliseum could possibly be a stage in the original MK2. Raiden didn't say anything about where to go to everyone in that game either.

Or much of anything else, really...

Jax and Sonya saw Scorpion during the FIRST tournament and they saw also that Scorpion was under Quan Chi's control.
Quan Chi is one of Shao Kahn's lackey, so Jax and Sonya basically told Kuai Liang to go to Kahn Koliseum and ask Quan Chi, although they used different words that I can't remember right now.

Actually, I'm not arguing that it is a plot hole this time. I just wanted to illustrate with specifics that MK9 didn't at all use anything from Scorpion's original MK2 and 3 storylines, which is, y'know, the overall subject of this thread.



Okay, it was pedantic, but the thought just happened to pop into my head when I was typing and I felt like putting it out there. Maybe Raiden did just tell them something like "Okay, Kahn'll mainly hold the tournament in his big arena over thataway, so let's all meet back up there later" or something along those lines offscreen.
But poor example notwithstanding, that's one of my problems: for a game that tells its story through non-stop cinematics like a movie, a lot of stuff happens off-screen. Too much, I feel.
You have your "the old games didn't even have cutscenes and dialogue, they never showed tons of stuff and you didn't mind it then" argument, but it really isn't the same thing. The old games were told mostly by summary, and a summary can't be expected to cover everything, that's what a summary is...but film is not a summary. (Well...unless it's a montage...but at least then you get some upbeat 80's jock rock to go with it.) Why gain the ability to show instead of telling...and then waste it by constantly never showing stuff?
I know, I know, the answer is because they didn't have the time or money to animate everything they wanted to and stuff ended up on the cutting room floor, i.e. a "Jax getting his new arms" scene and Baraka having a relationship with Mileena. But this was MK1 thru 3 here, they should have held off on revisiting the roots until they could do it justice. MK9 could've been the same gameplay, graphics, roster, etc. and just been about a different plot instead of "Raiden rewinds time and we see a rushed, skewed version of the oldies" and who wouldn't have been happy?

Scorpion's only concern is getting revenge. First and foremost, kill the guy responsible for killing him and his family and ninja clan (for the longest time, he believed it was ALL on Sub-Zero). Somebody else brought this up and it's good to reiterate it. Bi Han was toasted, but Scorpion is still around, you would think if you get your revenge on someone who had done wrong to you, once you completed that task you are also irrelevant. But Scorpion is still around, he's gotta be thinking "I killed Bi Han and revenge is complete, but I'm still here as a ninja spectre, why?" So then "Sub Zero" returns, mindfucking Scorpion how Sub Zero is still around.

By the way, to those people who say that Scorpion knew right off the bat that Kuai Liang wasn't Bi Han, how can you tell? Both have pretty similar uniforms, they are both addressed as Sub-Zero, and even though Scorpion saw Bi Han get burned, doesn't mean it's impossible for Bi Han to be resurrected. After all, Scorpion was resurrected. Oh, and it turns out Bi Han does get resurrected too.

Back to where I was before, so Scorpion is defeated by Sub Zero in Kahn's coliseum, and only then I believe it's when Scorpion realizes this isn't the same Sub Zero. I think at that moment, Scorpion has to be wondering that ok, this isn't Bi Han because he's dead and he's letting Scorpion live, so why is Scorpion still around as a ninja spectre? Maybe Bi Han isn't really the one responsible for all the deaths, maybe the true target is still out and about.

And this goes back again to what I was saying before about Scorpion not knowing the new Sub Zero's true identity. Quan Chi is ultimately responsible for the deaths of Scorpion's family, and if a ninja spectre bent on revenge can't figure out who he has to exact revenge on, how does he expect to know or even believe anything the new Sub Zero has to say if he's dressed up like Bi Han and has the same ice powers as him?

^Except Kuai Liang *wasn't* going to spare Scorpion; the only thing that saved him at that point was Kuai Liang getting jumped by cyber ninjas right before he could deliver the killing strike.

Also, you assume a lot by thinking Scorpion wouldn't be "around" anymore after killing Bi-Han. Ascending to heaven or returning to life when his task was complete was never said to be part of the deal.

As for you Razor, its been a year since the game came out and a full 2 years since it was first announced and revealed as a reboot and you're still on here bitching how things didn't play out exactly the same as the original trilogy.Even though you knew GOING IN that things would be different. Either enjoy it for what it is, or don't, but either way move on already.

I'd like to see you make me.

I'll be holding onto this until the grave, son. I had a girlfriend cheat on me once and it didn't make me feel even half as angry or betrayed as I felt when I finished reading the script leak from the MK9 demo. (Although in fairness, I'd wanted to break up with that chick anyway so it's not like I was feeling particularly attached at the time...)
My greatest wish in the entire world since I was like 12 years old, watching the movie as a kid and going "Why is Kitana there? Why doesn't Shang have a mustache? This isn't how it goes!" was to see the events of Mortal Kombat 1 thru 3 in actual cutscenes, and during a time when I mistakenly believed that wish was on the verge of coming true, it was essentially destroyed in front of my eyes along with the entire MK universe which was then permanently replaced by a shorter, sloppier written version. The only thing in this life that will ever make me stop complaining about MK9 Story Mode is if they ever do a REAL MK1 thru 3 remake, and the soonest that's likely to happen is fifteen or twenty years from now when they get bored of this continuity and decide to start over again...and even then they'll probably do another reimagining where shit's different instead of going back to the info in the bios and comics Tobias wrote and telling the original story the right way.
So if the thought of hearing me repeat the same complaints over and over for years bugs you so much, perhaps I can interest you in finding people to conversate with in one of the many other fine communities where I don't post, like TMK, TRMK, or Test Your Might? Because I don't know if you've noticed, but I log into MKO pretty much every day, even during the quiet periods like now when there's only like 1 to 4 users online at a time. And MK9 and the story are pretty much the only thing there is to talk about right now. Soooooo...probably not gonna change my posting habits any time soon.
But for the record? Before the game came out, since they were using the word "reboot" incorrectly from day one, constantly saying this was actually a sequel to Armageddon with time travel in it, not a complete start from scratch, I didn't fucking see the whole "We're just gonna ignore the things we wrote in MK1 thru 3 and come up with new shit off the top of our head" thing coming at all. The hype, which apparently was full of lies, and the released bios on the website which were actually consistent with old canon (Mileena's said she's jealous of her sister and wants to be Princess of Edenia, that doesn't even match what's depicted in MK9!) led me to believe this game would be an otherwise ACCURATE retelling of MK1 thru 3, where the only thing changed would be the stuff Raiden altered with his bare hands...and that since it leaked early that Raiden would screw up and make things worse instead of better, I also believed the game would end with Raiden's changes being undone by the end, like how Marty had to get the almanac back from Biff to prevent Hill Valley from becoming a dirty ghetto. (I was also kinda hoping to see at least SOME attempt on Raiden's part to prevent, or at least make reference to, the actual cause of Armageddon and go after Blaze, not just fuckin' stop the one guy who happened to win the prize, 'cause hey, guess what, the end of the universe is still fuckin' comin'...but at least I knew that one was a longshot.)
But no, apparently when Boon watches Back to the Future 2, he wishes Doc would say "Naw, let Biff keep the book, it's too late now! Sure, we could always just go back in time again, but who wants to see 1955 again anyway? We already went there once, it's boring now."

Actually, the old canon did in fact say that once he got his revenge, his "soul can finally rest." They never defined whether resting meant "Stay in Hell forever like all the other damned" or "Go to Heaven", (at least not in canon, though outside adaptations frequently interpreted it as "he went to Hell because he was dishonored, revenge would get his honor back and he'd earn his way into his clan's version of Valhalla) but he definitely believed he'd not be a spectre, able/forced to walk amongst the living, anymore if he killed everybody he needed to kill.

Kinda interesting to note that the only game where Quan Chi is dead is the same game Scorpion got the nature of his powers and mission changed - in other words, seems like they made him Champion of the Elder Gods in Deception because you can't be a breed of undead/demon that literally gets its powers from the need for vengeance if there's no longer someone to revenge yourself against.

I wonder if Ed Boon and George Lucas is having lunch together?
They have soooo much in common.

Holy mother of god.

Razor I never, ever would normally do this. But there really is no other worthy response to this than "TL, DR"

I also think you'd be better off leaving MK alone for awhile for the sake of your own health.

My health is fine. I've got a job, a social life, other hobbies, MK just happens to be the one I'm most passionate about. I'm a nerd, but I'm like any other nerd. Some people collect Transformers and feel Michael Bay raped their childhood. Some people dress up like a Stormtrooper at conventions and will never forgive Lucas for the prequels. Some people loved Spider-Man until "One More Day". It happens, and for me, it happened with Mortal Kombat 9.

Besides, I tried leaving when the game came out and it didn't take.