*Raises hand*

In all fairness though, for me it was the sheer magnitude of how bad Revenge of the Fallen was - I like the first movie okay - and some Spidey since OMD has been downright excellent.

This game nearly broke my spirit, but fortunately everything else apart from Story (which did have its moments) made it a worthwhile experience

Get ready for some MUTANT ninja turtle rapping from Michael Bay

I can handle the Turtles thing because there's no reason to see a new Ninja Turtles movie - the perfect one was already made 20 years ago.

And you prove my point further by casually, almost proudly comparing yourself to some of the worst, nerdiest, most obnoxious fans out there. The super-fans who bitch about Lucas or Bay (or in your case Boon) raping their childhoods are NOT people you should aspire to be like, believe it or not.

I'm glad you brought up Transformers actually. I grew up on G1 Transformers and I love them...to this day the animated '86 film is one of my favorite movies of all time. I've got NO love for Bayformers, at all. The first movie was *ok* for what it was...I guess.The second was horrible and I didn't bother with the third. The point is I don't spend all my time on TF forums arguing with the people who did like them. I just...don't care. That's the difference between you and me.

Another difference between you and me is I can look back at old G1 episodes or comic issues and acknowledge that as much as I love the characters and the world they inhabit and the basic concept...some of the stories were still beyond ridiculous. You can't do that with MK, and there is nothing about MK that is not ridiculous. It's a world where other realms not only A: exist, but B: can claim soverignity over one another by winning kung-fu tournaments. Yet you look back and tell anyone who will listen that the original story (a story told completely through shitty text bios and endings mind you) was some well-written, deadly serious, grand epic tale on par with the fucking Iliad or something. Then with colossal arrogance I've rarely seen matched online or off, say that anyone who feels different must not know the story well enough.

The same colossal arrogance that goes with you saying I should leave if I don't like your posts, like you're some institution of MKO that comes along with the site or something. But I really, really like MK9, so unlike you, I actually have reason to still come here.

And if you tried to leave and it "didn't take", may I ask why? Is your will-power that weak, or maybe is your life just that boring? Genuinely curious.

Sorry, I missed this before.

That's an interesting idea, and it's certainly possible.

But its *also* possible that the Elder Gods simply liked what they saw from Scorpion and spared him from another death after he got chucked into the Soulnado.

But if a later game comes out and confirms your Quan Chi being dead theory, I'll accept it at face value. If a later game confirms *my* theory...you'll just say its the *game* that's wrong and that NRS doesn't know their own canon anymore. Then post about it for 2 years.

Another difference between me and you.

My time to be miffed off at MK came when Shaolin Monks came out. MK vs DC came out and it got my interest back in the series (I am a huge fan of DC)

With 9, I just realized some people new to the MK franchise don't care what happened previously and not everyone will play the old games because they think they're old.

Well gee, we are in a different canon now, aren't we?

Golden Age Superman got his powers from Earth having different gravity than Krypton and could only leap real high. Modern Superman gets his powers from solar radiation and can fly. Golden Age Batman used guns and killed criminals on a couple occasions. Modern Batman loathes firearms and has never taken a life. I think you see where I'm going with this.

I didn't want there to be a reboot, I didn't expect a reboot, I don't like the reboot, but there WAS a reboot...if only a half-assed "soft reboot" DC Crisis-style where half of shit changed and half didn't but which half is which is never clear until after a story's over.

New Scorpion's powers are probably just permanent or fuckin' controlled by Quan Chi himself instead of being contingent on the vengeance.

Surely I've proven myself more than stubborn enough that willpower wouldn't be the issue.

No, basically I just realized that no matter how much I hate MK9, I still love 1 thru 8 and I still love talking about and speculating over the games. It's kinda dumb to give up on a hobby I've enjoyed since I was a kid just 'cause the newest iteration is bad.

That and I wouldn't have felt right abandoning my unfinished fan submission projects, not with all the people waiting and begging me to keep them going. It just seems like it wouldn't be fair to them.

And I remember when XiahouDun, who was basically MKO's "memorized all the bios guy" before me, erased all the posts in his, like, 30 page long analysis thread and stopped coming here. The quality of discussion just hasn't been the same since.

Even the complaining you feel is so repetitive, I believe serves a positive purpose. For example, some of the fandom's major complaints about Shaolin Monks were actually not repeated in MK9. Namely, Liu isn't naive to the point of comedy (asking a dead body "Are you okay?" lol), he and Kung came across as actual friends instead of bickering children, the subplot about Shang posing as Raiden was completely absent, and they remembered that Kitana was raised by Kahn, not under a spell to obey him. I think maybe they actually listened to us. It's just that they then proceeded to make a whole new set of mistakes. If we all just "got over it", they'd be forgotten - and thus repeated. They'd fade away and nothing would be learned or improved next time.

On that note, I think it's important you know that I have no interest in "the difference between you and me". The only reason I've told you anything about myself is so you'll know telling me to "get over it" is an exercise in futility. That's simply not going to happen, and it's just plain logic to suggest that if you don't want to read my criticisms anymore, then there are plenty of places where I'm not at. Some of them even don't suck. I hear TRMK is a pretty good site.

Razor, Shaolin Monks wasn't written by the usual MK team, and it shows. Now that story did piss me off, because it was supposed to be MK2 in action game form and not blatantly advertised as a reboot. Big difference.

If there's one thing (and only one lol) that I *will* give you credit for it's not having a massive XihaoDun style meltdown (yet) like he did when he deleted his character analysis thread. I used to browse through that years ago when I just lurked. I didn't always agree with him either, but it made for a good read.

I just don't see how people get so worked up over a video game, especially an incredibly shitty video game as MK was during those years.

It is not about being so butthurt about some game,it is just people like Xiahou and Razor,they know EVERYTHING about MK (prove me otherwise) and they see A LOT OF stuff that casual MK fan won't see.That's why it affects them more (or as Razor said, he felt "betrayed"), and they try to explain WHY this change or that change in new continuity sucks or doesn't make sense. Nothing wrong with that I think. I guess that means they care more than we do about MK's lore (because some people care about gameplay part more) and calling them "nerds with no life" is utterly disrespectful.

OF COURSE,in the end of the day,MK is just another game,and,I must say,NRS made a successful game with 9,and I understand,it's been a while since we had a decent MK game both gameplay-wise and story-wise(again,some parts of story were well done) but it doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss or show NRS their weaknesses in their story department.

LOL and who are you, Razor's personal cheerleader? There's at least a couple misquotes you're accusing me of here, calling him a nerd for one. He called himself a nerd if you read over it again. And I can't even hate on him for that because I'm kind of a closet nerd myself. I would have to be to enjoy the MK lore for 20 years and know so much about it myself don't you think?

And second, you guys aren't "showing NRS their weakness" in these threads. Even assuming they read this stuff, they don't answer to you and nor should they. Thirdly, many of you (including your beloved story guru Razor) miss some pretty obvious stuff right under your noses. Like wondering how Scorpion can know that Sub-Zero isn't the one he already killed, as shown in this thread. Your problems start with assuming this game is supposed to mirror MK2 and forcing conclusions about plot and character motivation, like a square peg into a round hole. So perhaps you shouldn't be the ones explaining to NRS how they did wrong when you don't get what they're going for to begin with.

If you instead choose to assume nothing going in and take MK9 for what it is....a new game with a new canon....then suddenly things become a lot clearer. He knows it's not the same Sub-Zero because this time no one got in his ear and TOLD him it was, and there's no reason for him to assume any different to begin with.

Play nice kids. No need to pick on the brown-noser.
Scorpion and Subbie aren't all that interesting anyways, you should discuss something alot more interesting.

Whole thing pisses me off, but I save myself mental anguish by looking at 2011's timeline as still being linked to the original games, which have simply been retconned to shit and back. At the end of the day, some version of the original events had to have happened to get to Armageddon in the first place, and that's good enough for me. It won't ruin my enjoyment of the original games and their plot. I look at it like DC's continuity: it's broken, but to hell with it. As far as I'm concerned the events I love are still canon, even if they're not part of the current timeline.

Besides which, there's been a history of backpedaling over poorly received choices. They don't cater to us (except when it comes to, you know, longstanding fanwank like Ermac and Skarlet, the inclusion of Khameleon in MKA Wii after she was left out and there was an uproar, Ed's dismissal of MKSM in Fight Night as a what-if story, etc. etc.), but they sure as hell try to fix what's been screwed up. They'll try and smooth this over. They may break something else, but damn it, they'll try.

Well,certainly not,I am not a cheerleader and not an ass kisser or something that you might think,but I respect everything Razor did for MKO. And yes,I DO know,that you,Shadow,know about MK's lore a lot yourself (from the threads that I have read),and that's why it is sad,that you are disrespecting him,because you are quite knowledgable yourself

And no,MK9 is not a NEW canon as you say,or reboot,I don't care what NRS say in the interviews about bringing back old characters and returning to the roots,the fact is,this story is connected to MK Armageddon,which means,it is continuing the old timeline,meaning whatever stuff that WASN'T changed by Raiden's visions should be considered CANON. Which obviously bothers us. Why bother with all these Raiden sends visions bullshit when you just can start from the scratch and not fuck up old continuity? It is pretty simple,isn't it?

And if NRS doesn't listen to their fans (they said in one interview,I don't remember which though,that they go to forums and read whatever fans are wishing to improve),then I don't see the point why we are arguing about stuff or discussing anything in this forum,if it ultimately doesn't matter? Can't say that about,for example,Namco,who listened to their fans about including Jun Kazama in new Tekken games and guess what? They are really considering her for Tekken 7...As for NRS,I know that they listen to fans,if they included Skarlet and Rain as DLC for this game (then again,they included Freddy,but I don't want to start another discussion here)

As for MK2 story plot for Sub-Zero and Scorpion,it is pretty simple,at least,to ME. Scorpion found out SOMEHOW,let's assume it is Quan Chi who told him a lie,obviously,that Sub-Zero somehow survived and will be in Outworld tournament,and Quan Chi really really hates Sub-Zero family,he made Bi-Han his slave and wants Kuai Liang dead as well,because he is his brother and possess the same powers,therefore he is dangerous as well,because in MK Mythologies Bi-Han could go to Hell and come back just being mortal with freezing powers.

And don't forget,that MK4 comics stated,that Bi-Han told EVERYTHING to Kuai Liang about MK Mythologies and what is the key to Shinnok's power (Amulet of course,even though Bi-Han took the fake one,which he didn't know).Kuai Liang is a serious threat to Quan Chi,so he lied to Scorpion so that he kills this brother too.

Another thing is,Scorpion practically engulfed Bi-Han in flame and watched him die,before burning himself out,and I don't consider Scorpion dumb enough to so EASILY believe that he didn't accomplish his mission just by words,so that means Quan Chi should show with his magical mumbo-jumbo (like for example the way he showed Scorpion the slaughter of his family and clan in MK9) that Sub-Zero is still alive and kicking.

And another thing,in order for Scorpion to leave Hell and go to Outworld he must have permission and help from the boss of Hell (Shinnok) or his assistant (Quan Chi) to leave,because then every spectre,wrath or demon will roam the face of Earth or any other realm and I don't think that they like it down in Netherrealm. In order for Scorpion to leave Hell,he must have someone with power to grant him that. Which solidifies my point,that it was all Quan Chi and/or Shinnok's plan to lie Scorpion about Sub-Zero's survival. He just can't leave Hell and go to Outworld without Quan Chi knowing and letting him.

But I don't know for sure,because it wasn't stated anywhere,how Scorpion knew about Sub-Zero's appearence in the tournament,I just use logic,because,besides Quan Chi and Shinnok,nobody knows about Kuai Liang and want him dead,so it is pretty simple. And these whole scenario I suggested (or IF maybe someone else here suggested before me,I don't know) is JUST BY reading bios and endings and knowing whole this Sub-Zero/Quan Chi relationship from MK Mythologies and partially MK4.

So then Scorpion leaves Netherrealm and goes to tournament. He sees this Sub-Zero and really doubts himself,that maybe he INDEED didn't kill Bi-Han and he survived somehow. He decides to finish the job,but then he witnesses how Kuai Liang spares his opponent in one of the matches. And then this whole "this ain't Sub-Zero,if it was him,why he spared his opponent?"

Now,here is my THEORY for MK2 events that unfolded later and I,again,use my logic,lol,and therefore,nothing is stated in the official comics.IF you have OTHER THEORY that MAKES SENSE,please,be my guest.

Anyways,we forget about another character in this Sub-Zero/Scorpion drama: RAIDEN! Since Scorpion has this WTF moment and doesn't know who this new Sub-Zero is,he decides to ask Raiden,since he witnessed as well,how Scorpion killed Bi-Han and disappeared. And plus,he is A GOD,so he SHOULD know,and I am not mentioning that Sub-Zero is defending Earthrealm's side in this tournament,therefore,he is one of Raiden's guys,and Raiden doesn't want anything to happen to this Sub-Zero,because he PROBABLY saw the potential in him as well as in Bi-Han,to become a good guy.

And because of this,I even will dare to suggest, it was Raiden,who told Scorpion to witness the match,in which Sub-Zero spared the life of his opponent and make Scorpion to have doubts. But I don't know that,as it was NEVER stated how exactly this "witnessing the match" scene went,so maybe Scorpion was stalking Sub-Zero all the time and saw it,I DON'T KNOW. It MAKES SENSE for Raiden to have some kind of role here,but I digress.

And after Scorpion talks with Raiden about who the hell is this new Sub-Zero guy,it is revealed it is his younger brother. So,since Scorpion is NOT A BAD guy completely and still have some honor in him and I am sure he doesn't like it in Netherrealm,he decides to protect this guy from harm,to atone for murdering his brother,and therefore,gain redemption and MAYBE,go to Heaven and reunite with his family and rest in peace. Probably,Scorpion thought,he must do something good in order to rest in peace.

Well, after all this,Scorpion meets Sub-Zero in the tournament bracket at one point and one thing for sure,their fight must have happened AFTER Scorpion discovered who this guy is. If he fought him before,Scorpion would have just killed him and won't care,because he thought this is the same Sub-Zero. In Sub-Zero's ending of MK2 it is stated that Kuai will never know why his life was spared. And that's why we still have Sub-Zero in MK3,lol. That means,Scorpion won the fight,but didn't kill the younger Sub-Zero.

But that's all my vision of what happened in MK2 according to MK2 bios and endings,and A LOT OF stuff can be speculated. Now look at MK9. Did ANY of this stuff happened the way it happened in MK2? Scorpion WASN'T even there to witness how Kuai spared Reptile. And another thing,Kuai's primary motivation to be in Outworld was to FINISH THE JOB of Bi-Han,which is to assassinate Shang Tsung. But what do we get? Bi-Han is actually WORKING for Shang Tsung in MK1 portion of this game,and in MK2 portion Sub-Zero wants revenge on his brother's killer,totally different storyline and motivation. How stupid is this? Kuai Liang wants revenge on Scorpion,who wanted revenge on B-Han. Who is the next in this circle? At least original MK2 wasn't so cheesy and MADE sense,which is to send Kuai Liang to finish the assassination objective,which makes sense,because he is still loyal to Lin Kuei.What this game did? They just decided "Well,since Scorpion's story is so complicated and we don't have time and money to show HOW IT REALLY was in MK2,let's just make him Quan Chi's bitch and send him wherever or do whatever he is told by the sorcerer. That's simplier and won't cost too much". Well,excuse me if I want Scorpion,THE FACE OF MORTAL KOMBAT franchise,done justice and the way he was always supposed to be in the first place,not some dog that barks by the order of ALL MIGHTY Quan Chi. If NRS treat their face of franchise this way,I don't even want to hear about others. Have you seen Ryu be treated like this in Street Fighter? Or Jin Kazama from Tekken?

Anyways,I am tired of typing,but even though there are lots of background happenings,it is pretty straight forward for me in Sub/Scorp department of original MK2 lore.

Now I already said that I understood perfectly that in MK9, Scorpion was summoned into the tournament blind, having no idea there was a new Sub-Zero, so it made sense that he reacted with instant disbelief. The problem wasn't whether that made sense or not.

The problem is that this version of events is inferior to the original, because as a result of them not following Scorpion's MK2 and 3 story at all, Scorpion HAS no story in the last two thirds of MK9 Story Mode. From after he kills Bi-Han on, Scorpion is never again a character participating in the plot, he's just a cameo who only pops up twice. Which, for being the guy they put on the cover, is kinda bullshit. I'm not saying I expect him to fight Shao Kahn, but he used to at least do something, not sit in Hell like a secretary and ask Raiden if he has an appointment to see the boss.

And on top of that, without the wanting to redeem himself and allying with Kuai, now Scorpion is a straight-up villain in this version of the franchise where previously he was basically the iconic "anti-hero" character of Mortal Kombat. AND his personality is now pretty much one-dimensional. Even if you don't usually agree with me that the old text had more depth than these cutscenes, you have to see how it's true for Scorp. He's just as bad off as Reptile now. He's almost as fucked as Movie Scorpion.

Razor and Noobsmoke: you guys do realize that saying the new version is inferior is completely subjective right? All this arguing and grandstanding finally comes down to a judgement call. I love it. I *could* even make the argument that you guys completely shifted the goal posts from "the new story doesn't make sense and this is why!" to "um...well we just like the old version better, that's all!"...but I won't do that. :P But still...we KNOW you guys prefer the old story. No one is coming up with anything new here.

And Razor you exaggerate completely by comparing MK9 Scorpion to Movie Scorpion. MK9 Scorpion has his own motivation along with moments of self-doubt, regret and humanity. Movie Scorp was Shang Tsung's mute bitch who was partnered up with his worst enemy for no other reason than to streamline the plot and save time.

Let us not forget also of course that Scorpion doesn't do shit in the original timeline either. The ninja soap opera is always a side attraction; Scorpion never is the one to beat Shang Tsung. Or Kahn. Or Shinnok. It's always Liu Kang. And you can say maybe it should've been Scorpion at least once and I won't disagree with you, at all. But the only time it looked like they might've let it be him to save the day in Deception, they give it to perennial fan-favorite (lol) Shujinko.

Scorpion is on the cover because he's the most popular character in the game, and an icon in video games and arguably even pop culture in general. If you're reading this site you already know this; you shouldn't need to play dumb so I have to explain it to you.

Finally Razor, how in the blue fuck is Scorpion a villian now when the only person he killed in MK9 was unapologetically evil as fuck? He doesn't kill any good guys (and he owned Kung Lao pretty badly so he easily could've); he beats and spares Sektor and Cyrax. He doesn't even kill Bi-Han when the guy is really, REALLY just asking for it. It's only after being completely mindfucked by Quan Chi that he does, and even then, he still feels ashamed afterwards.

Wow, what a horrible, irredeemable villian. OMG FEEL THE EVIL!!1

I actually agree with Razor about Scorpion being a cameo character with no storyline for the most part of this game. I also think he should stay that way, because that's what he's always been - a secondary character. His storyline isn't important to the main plot, not in this timeline or the original timeline, it never has been important, so why should it be that now?

Let him stay as Quan Chi's little bitchboy, then he at least has something to do than just run around with his never ending wrath and eternal vengeance against everyone else which was incredibly tiresome in the original timeline, in my opinion.

In this timeline he is on par with Reptile and Baraka, being nothing but a servant that is sent out to kill others. I like that. ^^

Depends what you define as doing shit. Avenging his own murder aside, he switched sides in the fight against Kahn in UMK3; that probably went a way towards tipping the balance in the Earthrealm warriors' favor. And when MK4 rolled around, he personally dragged Quan Chi back to the Netherealm, removing a major player from the board.

He's not singlehandedly stopping invasions, but his resume is better than some. Baraka's CV reads "I get beat up a lot."

I don't think it is an exaggeration. Both versions are slaves, both versions are aligned with the antagonists when the original Scorpion was more often presented as either unaligned or an outright hero, the only difference is one talked and got to fight Sub-Zero and get his revenge, while the other was mute and lost to Johnny Cage. And that difference is why I used the word "almost" when I said he's almost as fucked.



This is outright false, with the evidence already stated prior to your post.

But hey, I like repeating myself, right? Why not go through it one more time, just for fun.

In MK3, Shao Kahn frees Scorpion from Hell and Scorpion accepts an offer to repay him by fighting for Outworld, but switches sides when he sees that Sub-Zero, who he vowed to watch out for in MK2, is with Raiden's gang. Honoring the vow, he fights at Kuai's side, which would imply battle against Outworld soldiers and furthermore, guarantee participation in at least one significant battle against the Cyberninjas, since that's what Kuai did during MK3: he captured Cyrax and reprogrammed him to recognize Kahn's forces as his target, and also tried to free Smoke from his programming (and may have briefly succeeded, since Smoke fought and fell in battle against Kahn's forces and his deactivated body was added to Kahn's trophy room. Though since the Cyberninjas were neutral in the old timeline and thus would've been enemies of the Extermination Squads anyway, it's possible Sub failed too.)

That he is not the person who fights Shao Kahn, and thus not part of the "main" plot, is of very little relevance to this argument. Mortal Kombat is an ensemble tale, in every game there are numerous subplots both major and minor running concurrent to the primary concern of main protagonist vs. main antagonist. Sub-Zero's was the largest and most developed subplot in the original MK3 and Scorpion was involved in it, which counts as "doing something".

Comparatively, Scorp literally does nothing at all in the "MK3" part of MK9. He stays in Hell for the entire invasion and does not participate at all. Even while Quan and Noob do stuff for Shao Kahn, Scorpion is entirely absent from this period of the plot until Raiden travels to the Netherealm to see Quan Chi and finds Scorpion is literally his secretary.



Oh gee I dunno, maybe because he spends the whole game as a bad guy's henchman? Oh wait it's okay, Reptile, Noob, Goro, and Mileena didn't really hurt or kill anybody all game long either. I guess that makes them okay dudes, right?

And besides, he feels ashamed! Not ashamed enough to do anything about it, but hey, it's okay. Being submissive to a villain is sorta like being an unpredictable-but-ultimately-heroic figure who fights for the redemption of his soul, right?

And finally...I put this quote last because it sums up the most important part of my argument:



That he had a story in MK2 and 3, but does not have one in the MK2 and 3 parts of MK9 Story Mode, is not subjective. It is a statement of fact with evidence to prove it.

Now..."having a story is better than not having a story" is a subjective opinion, but why would anyone, especially a clearly intelligent person like yourself, take the other side? How is having no role "better" for a fictional character in a story than having a relevant one?

"That he is not the person who fights Shao Kahn, and therefore is not part of the "main" plot, is of no relevance". Um...it's relevant when that's exactly the point I was trying to make! Yes, he never fights Shao Kahn, and that's what I meant. All the ninja shenanigans you mentioned were a subplot as you said yourself. A subplot that many (myself included) enjoyed more than "Liu beats the bad guys....again", but it is what it is.

As far as being a slave or an evil guy's henchman...you do realize of course that Scorpion *always* worked for Quan Chi in the old games don't you? I mean granted at the time people didn't see it that way because Quan didn't...you know...exist yet, but looking back with what we know now it becomes obvious. Quan resurrected him to begin with, sicced him after Sub-Zero, told him he had "returned" when it was brother, and then flat-out bullshitted Scorpion how even though the first guy killed just him, it was this guy that killed his family and clan, so he's even worse! This is all right there for you to see in MK's 1, 2, and 4.

And no, working for a bad guy (especially when you've been tricked) doesn't make you outright evil yourself. It's what's in a character's own heart that truly makes them evil or not. If anything, I could make the argument that him playing secretary to Quan in hell makes him less evil in this game than he was before. Maybe participating in a hostile invasion of Earthrealm held no interest for him? "Hey, I didn't sign up for this!" As opposed to MK3 where he's all "ah fuck it, I don't have anything else better to do right now" and plays ball until he sees new Zero fighting for the good guys and goes all "unpredictable" (lmao) wildcard on us.

And if you think the seeds haven't been planted for Scorpion finding out the truth again, you're crazy. Quan Chi is gonna get it big time from Scorp in MK10, not least because most of the good guys are dead.

Since you bring them up, I could say Reptile might not be working for the bad guys if he knew any better. Goro has at least shown signs of a sort of warriors' honor, so he might not be a complete bastard like his higher-ups. And yes, I know Goro did a nonsensical heel turn in Deception and Reptile chose Kahn even after Khameleon told him the truth in Deadly Alliance. This goes back to what I've been saying for years: the writing in the 3d games (the supposed high point of the series for you) was fucking horrible! Mileena on the other hand is evil to the core and Noob is one of the baddest dudes in the series, so no defending them from me.

And finally, forget this "MK2 and 3 part of story mode" stuff. MK9 is one continuous game with ONE story and should be evaluated as such.

Shadaloo, you're right about Baraka's resume but still...it's Mortal Kombat. Every last character in the series has gotten beaten up a lot, right up to Raiden and Shao Kahn themselves.

Why did you say "Scorpion doesn't do shit in the original timeline either", if you admit he had a subplot? Having a subplot is doing something.



Scorpion was talked into going certain places and fighting the Sub-Zeros by Quan Chi. There's a huge difference between that and following him around and directly serving him.

The original timeline never had Quan in actual attendance during either tournament or on Earth/Outworld during the invasion. Instead, when they created Quan for Mythologies and MK4, they chose to retcon his involvement in Scorp and Sub's lives into the timeline in a subtle and unobtrusive way that depicted Quan as a behind the scenes schemer, playing gambits instead of giving orders. Scorpion had autonomy and free will which is why he was able to ally with Kuai Liang in 2 and 3.



Perhaps if he was working for Quan under any kind of duress and/or actively trying to resist doing evil, some show that his servitude to Quan Chi was against his will or wishes, I'd agree with you. Any indication at all that Scorpion is a good man who just happens to work for an evil one would be fine...but that's not the case in the new game.

In his last appearance in MK9, Scorpion shows no indication, even when Raiden outright calls him out on it, that he would leave Quan's service. Being ashamed about it doesn't change the fact that he's completely resigned to "I'll do whatever this guy says because I owe him one."

Willingly acting in the service of evil is evil.



Of course he will...but Scorpion having the same arc in MK10 that he had in MK4 has nothing to do with THIS game and its old timeline equivalents.



I don't think he would. There's no indication in any of the games that Reptile is redeemable or has any positive characteristics beyond wanting to bring back his race. Fans only seem to imagine him getting away from working for villains and striking out on his own or becoming a good guy because they feel sorry for him. Personally, I have no pity for a dude that hates mammals and eats human flesh.



That's just not how it works.

MK9 is one game that remade three games. Now, you can try to view it as a standalone work, but that's just not what it is.

It's like an adaptation. Much like when a book is turned into a film, when scenes and plots are cut for time, there are always disappointed fans who don't see it as "a standalone movie", they see it as "the movie OF the book".

Even when the movie decides to be nothing like the source material, an adaptation-in-name-only, (Keanu Reeves Constantine, for instance. Or even worse, Resident Evil being a Mary Sue fanfic about the director's wife.), people aren't going to judge it on its own merits, they're going to be even madder because they see it as "they turned what I like into a movie but left out all the parts I like" so the more parts they like that you leave out, the worse it is.

The three games MK9 adapted are the criteria to which it will forever be compared, not just by me, but by everyone.

Once again, that's not the something I meant. I came right out and said he had a subplot, but unfortunately for you I was talking about the MAIN plot. I know you're an arrogant one, but are you really so arrogant as to now tell me what it is that *I* meant? What am I saying...of course you are.



He's still scheming behind the scenes. In fact he was so subtle when setting up Kahn to fail during the invasion that seemingly none of you have picked up on it.



Ahem...

"Scorpion, kill him."

"No. He has been beaten. That is enough."

Sure, once Quan whips out the slide show it's all over, but an evil man would not spare a life...his own murderer at that....for the selfless cause of bringing his clan back.

Also, and you keep ignoring this, but there's the fact that Scorpion does NOT participate in the invasion of Earthrealm this time, or really do anything wrong to the good guys at all. Unless trash talking during the tournament is evil now...



Again...this game is not MK1, 2, or 3 anymore than it is 4. It's MK9, and you'd better get used to that. They've already brought in plot points from MK4 and even Deception (Sub/Noob confrontation). Again, NEW game, NEW timeline. Stop being dumb on purpose; I know you're smarter than that.



There's also his MK2 ending which has him turning on Shang and Kahn and pursuing a life of peace. Yes, he never found out so it never happened, but it shows what he *would* have done. You can dismiss it as fanon if you want. But at least there's more in-game support for a Reptile that's not pure unadulterated evil than there is for some *other* popular character interpretations around these parts I can think of....


...Don't think I wasn't here for the "Kitana winking is wrong because the character must be 100% suicidally depressed at all times" fiasco.



LOL ok hold up....he hates mammals? LMAO. That's so randomly funny to me. Where did they ever say that? I'm not saying you're wrong but I genuinely don't remember that. (although Deadly Alliance Konquest would be my top suspect). For a guy who hates mammals *snicker* he sure has a funny way of showing it. You know, considering he works for/with a bunch of them and all.

I can't believe I'm even debating something so silly, but let's say he does hate mammals (lulz). So what? Look how many people in real life hate snakes. I wouldn't go as far as to say that makes them all evil, or bad people. So let ol' Reppy hate his mammals if he wants. Not everyone is gonna like everyone. .



I notice you keep swinging back and forth from "MK9 sucks because it's not a true remake! They went off in a completely different direction and ruined everything!" to "MK9 is explicitly meant to be remake of the first 3 games!", depending on which side of an argument you happen to be on. Funny, that.



Compared to, sure. Held accountable to? Nope

Your exact words were "Scorpion doesn't do shit in the original timeline either". That is a thing you said.

He did a lot of shit in the original timeline.

Whether or not any of it was fighting Shao Kahn was never part of the argument until you tried to make it so after the fact. Fighting Shao Kahn or not is irrelevant, I only care that he did stuff in the old version and now he's almost completely absent in the new one.

Not my fault if you can't say what you mean.



Fighting in both tournaments even though you're from neither of the competing realms and standing beside the throne like you're actively trying to steal Shang's job is the exact opposite of "behind the scenes" or "subtle".

Just because Kahn didn't notice Quan was jerking him around doesn't mean it wasn't way-too-fucking-obvious to the audience.



As far as MK9 tells us, Scorpion has no reason to stay with Quan after the first tournament other than some kind of gratitude for helping him kill Bi-Han, an act he's actually ashamed of. So theoretically Quan has nothing on Scorp and he could walk away at any time.

He chooses to stay, chooses to serve him. Raiden implies as much in his conversation with Scorp towards the end of the game.

So by your definition of "evil", it's okay to serve the ruler of Hell (y'know, root of all evil? the place bad folks go when they die?) without being forced or blackmailed, no complaints, as long as the audience doesn't see you hurt anybody.

Your definition of "evil" is a bit different from mine.



It does come up a little in MKDA. He also says it out loud a lot in Shaolin Monks (which you don't need to bother reminding me is non-canon, I just find his portrayal interesting in that one). Like almost every one of his taunts while you fight him is about how he wants to feast on your warm blood or "you mammals think you're so superior", stuff like that.

And it's been canon since MK1 that he eats people. I mean besides that he does it in most of his fatalities, that's why he's at the bottom of the pit, to feed on the corpses. And he's outright described as "genocidal" against Edenians in MK4.



Snakes aren't sentient. Hating animals is completely different from hating people.

Reptile is racist against and is willing to EAT any living people except his own race. He is an evil person.



They're the same argument. Let me phrase my position for you as specifically as I can.

MK9 sucks because it's HALF a remake and HALF a reboot. Sometimes it directly references events of the old timeline as though we're still there and the only change is Raiden's future-informed actions, and sometimes it directly contradicts events of the old timeline as though it's a fresh start not beholden to any prior tellings. By not deciding which one it wants to be, it fails at both.

While my absolute preference would be for a canon-accurate remake of MK1 thru 3 with cutscenes a'la Resident Evil 1 on the Gamecube, I would've actually preferred a total fresh start a'la Vincent Proce's concepts from a few years ago over what we actually got because at least then the continuity not making sense wouldn't be an issue.



'Fraid it's not up to you to say what other people think.

Razor you're starting to bore me with the Scorpion stuff but as far as Reptile goes....he's a racist now too? He actually is a different species than us you know. Reptile being a racist would entail him hating another member of his own species for having different color scales or something.

And I really don't care if snakes are sapient or not. (That's the word you're looking for BTW, not sentient.) The point is that in real life, plenty of mammals (humans) don't like and/or are afraid of snakes and other reptiles. Reptile hating mammals, as silly as it is, is obviously supposed to be satire of that from the other side's perspective.

"Speciesist", whatever. You know what I mean.

And hating animals is still not morally the same as hating intelligent beings. There's plenty of evidence in the games that Reptile is genuinely a bad person and a lot of it can't be blamed on him being willing to do what villains want to get his people back. He just plain fuckin' eats people.