The infamous Sindel scene *spoilers*
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posted08/07/2011 04:18 AM (UTC)by
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DG1OA
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06/15/2011 08:07 PM (UTC)
Unlike many, I don't find the idea of Sindel killing nearly every heroes that bad. Sad, yes. Not completely necessary, either. But I liked that the heroes weren't immune to death.

My problem with it, however, is the way the fight occured. Pretty much every characters there had projectiles, yet didn't use them. They also took turns attacking her, instead of ganging up on her. What I'm saying is, Sindel's manhandling could have been more spectacular if the heroes acted a little more intelligently, with Sindel still managing to win. That's all.

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Garlador
08/05/2011 06:27 PM (UTC)
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It was cinema kung fu 101, better known as "the inverse ninja law", which is that when faced with many opponents, the one fighter can defeat them all (usually by them attacking one at a time), but when it comes down to one-on-one fighting, it's always 10 times harder.

It's the fake fighting principle used in every kung fu movie ever, from Ninja Turtles to The Matrix to SuckerPunch to Power Rangers to Final Fantasy: Advent Children.
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DG1OA
08/05/2011 06:45 PM (UTC)
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Garlador Wrote:
It was cinema kung fu 101, better known as "the inverse ninja law", which is that when faced with many opponents, the one fighter can defeat them all (usually by them attacking one at a time), but when it comes down to one-on-one fighting, it's always 10 times harder.

It's the fake fighting principle used in every kung fu movie ever, from Ninja Turtles to The Matrix to SuckerPunch to Power Rangers to Final Fantasy: Advent Children.


Yeah, I know about that little "rule". But here's how I'd have done it.

I wouldn't have the heroes recovering from Sindel's screaming as quickly, she'd take advantage of their stunned state to kill as many of them as she can. She'd knock Nightwolf, Sonya and Johnny out of the way, certain she's killed them, and focus on slowly killing Kitana. Just after she was done with her, Nightwolf would get up and fight her, while Sonya and Johnny lay unconscious.
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Dragon36
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08/05/2011 07:02 PM (UTC)
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Garlador Wrote:

It's the fake fighting principle used in every kung fu movie ever, from Ninja Turtles to The Matrix to SuckerPunch to Power Rangers to Final Fantasy: Advent Children.



None of those are actual "Kung Fu" movies...confused
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mkwhopper
08/05/2011 07:05 PM (UTC)
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That cutscene pissed me off
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bbfreak328
08/05/2011 07:13 PM (UTC)
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That was the problem I had with it...it was with her defeating them all by herself per se, but it was just so implausible that they would attack her the way they did. Had they all banded together however, I would've found it a bit ludicrous if she had killed them all then as well. One on one, she could certainly defeat them, but otherwise, no.
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daryui
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08/05/2011 07:13 PM (UTC)
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I loved seeing Sindel kill Smoke and to a smal degree, Stryker.
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mkwhopper
08/05/2011 07:18 PM (UTC)
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Smoke can turn into, well smoke at will right? So why in the fuck didn't he turn into his god damn namesake(Smoke) when Sindel got him in a chokehold?
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DG1OA
08/05/2011 07:21 PM (UTC)
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mkwhopper Wrote:
Smoke can turn into, well smoke at will right? So why in the fuck didn't he turn into his god damn namesake(Smoke) when Sindel got him in a chokehold?


Maybe because he can't use his powers when he's being grabbed? Seeing as they haven't gone in great details as to how the powers of many characters work, I find my theory valid.
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KuaiLiang
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08/05/2011 07:24 PM (UTC)
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Also, Smoke was already very weakened by then, remember Sektor was beating the crap out of him and would've probably killed him if Nightwolf didn't save him in time.
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Mojo6
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08/05/2011 08:16 PM (UTC)
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She killed everyone because it was written that way. I don't understand the confusion. If your point is that it could've been executed more convincingly then I'd agree but a lot of the whole "That's so unrealistic!" or "No way that would happen!" arguments don't have logical answers. Often the only answer is: "Because the plot deemed it necessary".
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Darkmage41
08/05/2011 08:22 PM (UTC)
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The majority of them were already stunned by her hyper sonic scream, they were all pretty disoriented while approaching her. I would have preferred if NRS went into details and made the whole scene a lot more creative and then finishing it off with NightWolfs suicide.

However, I don’t not think Sindel’s massacre was inappropriate at all. I just would have preferred it if it was executed in a better way, but the finale with Nightwolf was beautiful.
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(Erik)
08/05/2011 08:44 PM (UTC)
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When all of the Lin Kuei are dispensed like nothing, it's fine because nobody cares about them. But when the heroes all go down like nothing, it just takes away all of the drama. Nightwolf and Sindels' ending was epic. If Jade and Smoke and (maybe Jax) were the only two to die, maybe it'd make more sense. But I don't see why a punch to the face, or an uppercut, or a book to the chest, any of these things would take out our heroes who have been through so much more. And it's like, aw they're dead, wait no they're spirits under the control of Quan Chi now! I thought that was so stupid and undermined their deaths.
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wazburg
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08/05/2011 10:15 PM (UTC)
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I love it well because Sindel is my fave character :>
But she did have help from Shang's power
and she had just been reborn so she was all fresh and powerful
plus all the "Good guys" fight with mercy
she came along and fort with no mercy and everyone was pretty shocked thinking she was dead. grin
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Lokheit
08/06/2011 01:45 AM (UTC)
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Her blows where fatal enough for Smoke (neck break), Jade (organs out) Kabal (heel to the heart) and Jax (heel to the throat).

But then you have Stryker (broken leg and palm to the face) and Cyber Sub-Zero (2 hits and upercut) dying from blows comparable to what Johnny (knee to the face, and uppercut), Sonya (heel to the face) or Nightwolf first assault (punch and uppercut to the nose) got.

For Stryker you can make the case of Sindel pointting his head up to facepalm him in the nose, a technique used to insert your nose bone (I think it's called septum in english but I'm not sure) in your brain, but the angle taken doesn't match the attack angle neccesary.

And while in the case of Stryker it doesn't match it, in the case of Johnny, and maybe Nightwolf, it does, but it's Stryker who dies, apparently from a massive nosebleed or something like that.

Then you have Cyber Sub-Zero, a character that knowing the fan rant he would receive, probably with the pourpouse to make him more acceptable and bad-ass for the fans, was written to be strong enough to beat Outworld champions Goro and Kintaro together in the same fight, and without resting, the "OMG! HE'S GONNA KILL US ALL RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!" incarnation of Ermac, presented in Story Mode cutscenes as the ultimate threat. Not to mention eliminating a troublesome character like Kano without fighting.

Then you take this character that you wrote to be the ultimate bad-ass and... an uppercut kills his armored cybernettic body... They show some lighting on his armor when it happens but I think it's more of a disconection when dying rather than the cause of his death, and anyway, I don't get how he can beat all that hyper threats and then his body is broken with an uppercut...

Nightwolf, Johnny and Sonya received harder blows and neither of them proved to be as strong and him, yet he was killed easier than them.

I don't like it happening, but even if it had to happen, it could have been written with much more care and interest. I hate what happened, but also the way it happened.

A bit off-topic, but this fight is just the biggest show of what happens through all the story mode.

Many things in the story shows the little effort they put on developing it, the little attention they pay to character backgrounds they created some years ago (a lot of characters lost what made them special, like Sheeva no longer being a body guard and not having a rivalry with Motaro, and Mileena completly changed and now being daddy's litle -porn childish baby- daughter) or how they introduce many contradictory things.

And it's a shame because the way their story mode works has been apreciated by other companies like the developers of Street Fighter X Tekken, but they showed zero interest on making an interesting story when they clearly had the tools and a great system to tell the story, they just didn't put as much effort on the story as they put on the rest of the game, now accepted at EVO and the great events, and with 300 different challenges.
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Icebaby
08/06/2011 01:54 AM (UTC)
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I have issues if they managed to defeat her with all of them ganging up on her.

A.) The amount of power that each one would give off through their projectiles hitting her would basically be a brutality right there and then. It wouldn't be fair to Sindel in the way of writing to where she just gets killed by a blast of random projectiles.

B.) It would be horrible for them to gang up on her altogether because it looks totally stupid if you have five+ characters just kicking and stomping since they will obviously beat her down to the ground.

C.) The amount of power that she has absorbed prior to the fighting scene may have well be astronomical. Even though the foolish way of being killed is having Nightwolf sacrifice himself to destroy her. But even though, she has so much power within her, to make her seem that she is THE queen, have it where she needs to kick the asses of basically 99.9% of the good alliance.

So no, despite that, yes, it was a bit ridiculous, but it's not that tragic nor was it horrible to see everyone falling in her hands. This has been finally a moment I've waited for this character. Sindel finally being used as a threatening character that is supposed to make you get chills over. The way that she is created, the way that she looks, she's supposed to make you feel like she really is a bitch. No reference to the user whatsoever. But still, I was ecstatic that she finally got this much attention in the story. That she was finally a main character, an essential throughout it.

So I am fine with the way the whole cutscene happened.
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garetjaxusmc
08/06/2011 02:03 AM (UTC)
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This scene was poorly written and amateur at best.
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JediSith
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08/06/2011 02:06 AM (UTC)
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My particular gripes about this scene:

1. They "fix" Stryker and make him a new fan favorite...and they kill him off like nothing. They keep Smoke human with the possibility of new stories....and they kill him. They turn Sub-Zero into a cyborg (do NOT get me started on that) to "supposedly" give him more story possibilities....and they kill him off like nothing.

2. I know Kahn gave Shang's power to Sindel, but the woman was just "introduced" a few chapters ago. If they had built her up like with Ermac, then MAYBE I'd POSSIBLY be ok with this scene.

3. Stryker defeated Reptile, Kintaro, Ermac, and Mileena. Sub-Zero defeated Kintaro AND Goro, Ermac, Noob Saibot, and Sektor. Smoke defeated Shang, Reptile, Kano, and Sektor. Jax defeated Baraka, Jade, and Sheeva. Jade defeated Baraka and Sheeva. Sonya defeated the freaking God of freaking Thunder. Johnny defeated Kano, Reptile, and Baraka. Kabal defeated Noob AND Mileena, Kano, and Sheeva....And you're telling me that NONE of them can take down one amped up Sindel?

4. It's like they took numbers and waited in a single-file line to fight Sindel...

5. As it was said, Stryker and Sub-Zero's death blows didn't seem that deadly.

6. Happened way too fast considering all the victories these characters had seen.

Did this scene kill Mortal Kombat for me? Of course not. Did it piss me off? Of course it did. Had they maybe instead killed off these characters (except Sub-Zero and Stryker, who I see as a "survivor" and an up-and-coming respectively) THROUGHOUT the story by different villains, then I would be nowhere near as upset. I get that some people like this scene because it shows the heroes aren't invincible, I'm down with that, but c'mon...
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EvilStarLegacy
08/06/2011 02:08 AM (UTC)
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Let's also remember that Sindel was not only under mind control(so acting more violently than logically) but that Shao Kahn boosted her using Shang Tsung's life itself. She's also the queen of Edenia, so she must be extremely powerful to begin with(and it's not like the other games gave us a good example of her strength. For all we know she could be ****ing strong).

It didn't bother me that much personally. It could have been handled differently, maybe making people more dizzy by an insanely powerful scream, but I didn't actually care when it happened. That being said, I didn't expect it to have THAT much backlash.

I also think it's because Sindel isn't a particularly popular character. I'm pretty sure the fans wouldn't have been as angry had it been Scorpion or Goro doing the rampage.
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Icebaby
08/06/2011 02:17 AM (UTC)
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JediSith Wrote:
5. As it was said, Stryker and Sub-Zero's death blows didn't seem that deadly.


This. This is the only thing that's frustrating. The fact that these two character got blows to themselves by Sindel, no sex pun intended if I managed to make one, didn't look like it actually would have killed them.

Especially since Sub-Zero is a cyborg. If I am not mistaken he was just punched to the head. Exactly how that killed him is beyond questioning it whatsoever...
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Mango
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08/06/2011 03:29 AM (UTC)
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It was a scene designed to 'raise the stakes' of the plot. To leave the Earth warriors down to their last few survivors with Raiden saving the day. And it was clumsily done.

It would have been better if characters died continuously throughout the plot. Allow characters like Reptile and Baraka do something surprising and significant instead of getting their asses handed to them throughout the plot. Even if they happened to jump out of the shadows during this scene to get some kills in.

The way the story mode is structured, only playing as the heroes and every scene has to end in a victory in the player. Because of this formula it influences the way the plot develops, and makes it predictable.

In a way, I surport the deaths of characters in story mode. But do it in a climatic way. Elder sub-zero died in a more or less decent way. Maybe even Nightwolf. But the rest of the cast, not so much.
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KuaiLiang
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08/06/2011 03:37 AM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:
JediSith Wrote:
5. As it was said, Stryker and Sub-Zero's death blows didn't seem that deadly.


This. This is the only thing that's frustrating. The fact that these two character got blows to themselves by Sindel, no sex pun intended if I managed to make one, didn't look like it actually would have killed them.

Especially since Sub-Zero is a cyborg. If I am not mistaken he was just punched to the head. Exactly how that killed him is beyond questioning it whatsoever...


Am I the only one who saw Stryker's face get flattened by Sindel's hit?

It wasn't just a punch, she made a hole in his face.
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Tazer_Gunshot
08/06/2011 04:26 AM (UTC)
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Of the hero's, Johnny cage, Sonya and Raiden did not die. As for Cyber Sub dieing from a blow to the head... maybe his brain is in ice form and Sindel shattered it.

How in the hell can a cyborg be killed by a neck snap, a blow to the head, etc? The only way a cyborg can die is by having a meltdown, etc. But yet, they can be rebooted to live once again.

All in all, Nightwolf took Sindel with him and she died also. She can be reborn again, no big deal.
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Sindel18
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08/06/2011 05:05 AM (UTC)
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I love how my girl Sindel showed everyone why shes the Queen and will always be The Queen.
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queve
08/06/2011 01:34 PM (UTC)
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The fact that Sindel, Sonya, and Johnny are 3 of my super top favorite characters in MK makes me be "not as upset" about this scene as other people are, but, it does really force me to be unbiased and objective about it, because, truthfully, it was just as disappointing as it was epic.

There's no point denying that the scene was epic and that Sindel was a badass. Period.



From the moment she enters that scene our jaws-drop and she is seriously glorious.

I loved that they gave Sindel such a significant presence and extremely memorable appearance, however, I hate that, ironically, she was not anywhere near as developed or "felt as important" as she did back in MK3.

I think they cheapened her character by not giving her the focus she deserved. Her presence and her role should have been developed and built up to be much more than just that of a killing machine. A deadly weapon. She left the game faster than she came in. Just like Mileena (though less disappointing, but, still not good enough).



I love it that my favorites survived and the attention they got (Sonya and Johnny), and I love that Sindel stormed in slapping the hell out of all of her "haters" (non-fans) by proving she's a lot more than they ever wanted to give her credit for.

However, I completely agree that this scene was poorly executed. While it was fun and awesome to watch, after the first 20 times you see it and love it, you come to realize how much better it would have been if some those characters (if they really had to die) would have been killed DURING the progression of the story by someone else (like Kung Lao) and how some of those deaths were so unnecessary (if you kill Kabal, let Stryker live, if you kill Kitana, let Jade live, etc).



Overall, this should had been better written and executed. I don't have a problem with Sindel being that powerful and that capable of defeating the heroes. I do have a problem with the heroes not being smart enough to use their special powers together and all that jazz that has been stated.

I believe Sindel is powerful enough to kill them in a one-on-one and maybe one-on-two fight, but, not like this when all of them can beat her up at the same time.

It;s a shame that the storymode is limited to "progress" with "character chapters" because that's part of the main reason why some stuff was poorly executed.



Darkmage41 Wrote:
The majority of them were already stunned by her hyper sonic scream, they were all pretty disoriented while approaching her. I would have preferred if NRS went into details and made the whole scene a lot more creative and then finishing it off with NightWolfs suicide.

However, I don’t not think Sindel’s massacre was inappropriate at all. I just would have preferred it if it was executed in a better way, but the finale with Nightwolf was beautiful.


I agree with this post 100%.

EvilStarLegacy Wrote:


I also think it's because Sindel isn't a particularly popular character. I'm pretty sure the fans wouldn't have been as angry had it been Scorpion or Goro doing the rampage.


Blasphemy!

And I can already imagine all the hate if it was indeed Scorpion (out of all the annoying ones) to deliver the rampage. It would have been hell for NRS and Ed.

And yes, Sindel would totally destroy Scorpion in a one-on-one. Completely.
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