unseenwombat Wrote:McHotcakes Wrote:
Ok incoming rant you all have been warned.
Race is a social construct. There is no biological difference between black people, white, people, asian people or anybody else aside from looks. And the only reason people look different is because of enviornmental conditions, not genetics. So yes the entire idea of race in the first place is inherently flawed. So when somebody says they only acknowledge the human race they aren't being politically correct as much as just being factual.
Now I know somebody is going to tell me that I should accept that most people do see race, however many people have different concepts of what races are. Some people see only a few races in the world others see dozens or hundreds. Many people believe Italians are there own race, others don't. Many see Jews as being their own race, others don't. Its all a matter of perspective. So to act as if there are clearly defined guidelines for every race is a poor assumption to make.
We've seen this argument in this thread already, but okay, maybe it hasn't been adequately addressed. I'm not sold on race being merely social. If you took a group of african blacks and moved them out of a location where they're constantly being beaten on by the sun and moved them to someplace cold where they had to stay indoors all the time, like Sweden or something, how many generations would it take for them to lose their color? 10, 20? Probably much more than that. And how long to lose their distinctive features? I can't even guess, but I'd bet they would remain long after the color washed out. It's not just the environment, it's now a part of who they are. Just like Whites and asians are what they are and even if you put them in the Congo, it will take a very long time to turn their descendants into something different.
But whatever, let's assume it is a social construct. The point is it doesn't matter one bit. The game is a social form of media, being sold to and played by people that are a part of that society. So EVERYONE, except the most politically correct who want to delude themselves into not believing that traits such as race are not easily apparent to everyone ("self classifying" BS nonsense aside, and not counting people of mixed race). Not that I'm against having someone of mixed race in the game. But it's not a very powerful, identifiable representation of a group to have the character only partly a member of that group, unless you want to count "mixed" as a group in itself, which wouldn't be wrong either.
Now I do not believe that theunseenwombat is being racist as some have accused him of. I don't find anything wrong with adding some diversity to the cast. But I don't think we should diversify for the sake of diversifying. If you can come up with a cool original character who just happens to be an asian woman then go for, but if they create one who is only a paperthin sterotype than forget it.
Also I'd like to say wanting an Asian woman in the game just because you have a "thing" for Asian chicks is pretty shallow and chauvinistic.
Where did you see me say I'd like a paperthin stereotype? No, I don't want Popeye's Mr. Jap in the game. Nightwolf is a stereotype, but we all agree he's not paperthin. There's nothing wrong with stereotypes if they're done in a respectful way. Jax is very obviously black, but he's not running around going "Ooga booga, where de white wimmenz at?" or "Gimme yo wallet cracka!" Would it be better in your opinion if Jax were just ambiguously black, and we all had to have 8 page long threads discussing what race we think he is because no one can really figure it out? I don't think so, but maybe you do.
And yeah, I guess my reasons are shallow. It doesn't change the fact that asian females are completely underrepresented in MK.
And while I'm on the topic at people who keep saying that Li Mei doesn't look Asian enough for your liking you all need to take a step back and think. What does an Asian person look like? If you met a person from, say China, and they didn't look like how you would expect an "Asian" should, then would you say that they weren't Asian? You can't have a preconcived notion of what a person should look like based on race because I have said there is no such thing as race. People can't be divided down into racial groups because we are all just collections of genes.
"Because you have said?" Lol, okay Dr. McHotcakes. Since you're the ultimate authority we'll take that as the word of god. Like
I have said, whether there's "no such thing"
biologically is irrelevant. Even if it is only social, it exists. The reason Stryker wears riot gear is merely social. The reason Sonya does a salute in her win pose is merely social. The reason Johnny Cage acts the way he does is merely social. Should those things also be taken out, Doctor?
Socially, I and about 95% of people, know what certain races
typically look like. The other 5% are deliberately blinding themselves to the fact because it eases their white guilt. I'm not saying "them chinks all look the same, give'er some slanty eyes and call it a day." I'm arguing AGAINST that. In case you haven't read.
You make some good points, but they're not really relevant.
Yeah, so anyway. I hope when Li Mei comes back they give her some
real asian features. Not gypsy pirate ones and a sorta-asian-looking alt costume.
The first thing I would like to add is that as you've said yes if you did take a tribe from the middle of Africa and dubbed them up north, just for lolz, then in a few generations they would start to look whiter or more caucasian. But that really reinforces my argument. The fact that one group of people would start to take on the physical characteristics of another just by changing enviornment works against the concept of races, because it shows we all have the potential to change into any other "race" if the conditions were right. The simple fact that there would even be any change lessens the value set upon races.
Second I know you don't want the "bucktooth" asian sterotype and I didn't mean to insinuate that that was you wanted. I just meant that if you set out to create a character who is Asian, just to make an Asian character it can lead to using sterotype,s because being Asian would become the character's defining trait. Take Nightwolf he is a pretty paper thin stereotype IMO. I mean they set out to make a Native American character and took all the cliches they could think of to make it. The reason why we don't have a problem with him is he is for the most part a positive stereotype, if they're is such a thing. He is a noble hero, but at the same time he is clearly defined by his ethnicity.
Now as for Ja,x he is clearly balck. I don't think he should be ambiguously black at all. But being black isn't his defining characteristic. He is a military man with with metal arms. That's the first thing of when I think about Jax, not his skin color. He could just as easily be Asian or Hispanic and still be the same character.So I don't see Jax as being a stereotype.
As for me saying "as I have said" I didn't intend it to come across as "my word is law mortals!" it's simply a technique to use when you are repeating a point you have already stated in argument. That way it doesn't sound as repititious as simply restating something you already stated. Sorry if that caused confusion.
-courtesy from MINION- 
