He and Moloch are technically the reason Scorpion became Champion of the Elder Gods. (Edit: Damn, Spider beat me to it)

Anyway, I say yes. Drahmin has a GREAT backstory. And besides, MK10 will be about Shinnok and Hell. EVERY Hell character should be in it, that will be their best possible chance to shine.
The only real problem is he needs his personality more elaborated on (the mask is supposed to make him sane and smart, so why does he act like a Baraka-tier dumb monster?), better moves, and for his Mummy-themed alt to be his main costume.

Sorry, dude.

I'll get you next time, Spider-Man! NEXT TIME!

Ya gotta catch me first, Razor Blade. *swings away*

For an alt costume for Drahmin, I'd like something reminiscent of his past life as a human warlord in Outworld before his death and rebirth as an Oni.

See, that's the problem with the characters that were introduced in Deadly Alliance and Deception. They weren't given a chance to establish a personality as much as the other characters, and that's why Drahmin wasn't well liked. I disliked him at first, mostly because of gameplay-wise, but after much thought and read through WHY he was introduced in Deadly Alliance, he's not that bad of a character.... I still don't like playing AS him, but as a character as a whole, he's not bad at all.

There's no reason why he shouldn't be given another chance. Not that many people at first wanted Bo' Rai Cho to come back all because he vomits (Like seriously, you play a game that has characters pulling out organs and shit and vomit moves disturbs you?), but after seeing the votes, you all want him back.

Just because one character doesn't please someone during their debut, they shouldn't be shunned forever because of a poorly executed debut.

Just like Stryker, Man.

Exactly. It's not even like it's hard to fix these things.

Stryker was easily fixed because the IDEA of him was inherently a good one. When you're telling a story about New York being invaded by monsters, why wouldn't you want a character who's just a normal Modern American dude that doesn't believe in magic, to show how crazy this shit is, and have him show his courage and become a hero with nothing but human skill and gadgets like Batman? Hell, Sonya and Jax are almost exactly the same thing...except they have some kind of powers, and by MK3 had seen lot of magic and monsters and gotten used to it.
The whole problem with the Stryker character, the reason he never got popular, was he looked like Chief O'Brien from Star Trek, his bluescreen actor was chubby and dopey lookin'. Make him look fit and badass and you're done.

Bo' Rai Cho's a great idea too, this ancient master who trained heroes like Liu in their backstory to explain how they learned the skills they beat super-wizards like Shang and Kahn with, and making him a Drunken Boxer because A) it uses the classic Yoda-style "pretending to be a simpleton when really you're super-wise to trick people or test how good-natured or worthy to learn a student is by how well they'll treat a bum" trope and B) the Jackie Chan Drunken Master movies are kung fu classics and that's an archetype and fighting style that would fit great in a fighting game that constantly homages old kung fu movies like MK.

So what's the problem with him? Bad humor? Easy fix, Just put him in a game without the fart noises, and change his puke puddle to him, like, spilling wine on the floor and they slip on that instead. I came up with that off the top of my head in two seconds. That's how easy fixing a character can be. (Although I would also argue that more of Bo's moves should be overhauled to be more interesting, and because he should have some kind of magic/chi attacks since his students do, like where did they learn it from if their teacher doesn't do it, that doesn't make sense, right?)

All you have to do to make a character worthy of returning is figure out WHY you don't like them and suggest a way to fix it.

There are no characters who can't be fixed or the core idea of them isn't worth having, except Mokap. Because he was deliberately created to be a gag. But he's the only character like that. Even Hsu Hao has a good CORE IDEA: "Put a traitor in the Special Forces to give Jax his own archenemy who's a big burly wrassler dude with bionics just like he is".

What kinda magic/chi powers would make sense for someone like the drunken master, anyway?....Because, I gotta be honest, the flying kick from someone of his size is, just terrifying.

Bo' Rai Cho is a master of many forms of martial arts, not to mention an Outworld native.

It would be very likely that he has, at the very least, knowledge of magic.

Well yeah, some version of Liu's Dragon Kick but with a unique twist, or of the Spinning Bike Kick he taught Kung Lao in MKDA would be appropriate. It could easily replace the dumb belly-thrust move or the flip-attack thing.
I guess I'd also like to see some variation of using his jug of alcohol to breathe fire, but without a torch to light it or something, y'know, something that implies he can actually make the fire.
Or he could just have some kind of generic "Outworld magic" moves with a weapon (his walking stick) and a teleport like Kitana, Mileena, and Jade do, but that wouldn't be very memorable I don't think.

Didn't he teach the spinning bike kick to Kitana?

Well I meant the Whirlwind Kick, where he literally corkscrews upside down and stuff while he's bike kicking. Kitana's Pretty Kick isn't "spinning" so much as she swivels her hips back and forth. But that's just being picky about word choice...

I don't think Kitana learned the Pretty Kick from Bo. It's never mentioned in her MKDA Konquest what she learned from him when she trained with him, if anything, since she bailed on the training 'cause he grossed her out, lol. And the game has you practice the Pretty Kick before the part of the Konquest where she trains with Bo.

Plus, she has it in MK9. Granted, MK9 is hardly an accurate source of continuity info, but I still don't really consider it one of those "They didn't know how to do that until point X in the canon" moves.

Oh right, the Whirlwind Kick, forgot the name.
Mmm yes, spends X amount of years/time with unsavory characters like her half sister and it's her dead boyfriend's teacher that grosses her out. I mean, probably catching Reptile puke acid now and then wasn't gross? lol

Well I don't think Reptile ever deliberately puked on her shoes like Bo did...

Oy, that is some bad teaching right there.

Hey, I like that monkey flip!

It actually comes in handy a lot.




I was just thinking of this.

He could have a move where he drinks a bit of wine, and then conjurs up a giant flame that engulfs the oppponent. I do think it should be close range, though. It'll make the move more strategic.

That's my whole point though is that you can justify pretty much ANYONE from the cast returning when you play the "Well the can re-write his story better and give him better moves" which defeats the purpose of this forum game. That's why I'm deliberately not overthinking it.

I disagree.

See, just because I believe no character is so bad they should never come back because their flaws are as easily fixed as Stryker was, doesn't mean I think they should all return "for the next game" which is what the game's title says.

I'm still going to vote no for some characters because they wouldn't fit into a story about Shinnok and Hell. I voted no for Chameleon, for example.

Seeing as I don't know who Drahmin is and how little he is talked about, I would say Hell No!.

On the contrary.

Some characters require so much revamping that it wouldn't be worth bringing them back. Other characters are already good and simply need a few tweaks. And even still, being further developed won't make a character suitable for the next game. There are characters in MK2011 that aren't even suitable for the next game, like Sindel (who I love), Kabal, Stryker, and Jade.

Drahmin, Bo' Rai Cho, and Ashrah all make great candidates for MK10 because of their stories:

- Drahmin is an Oni demon tasked with protecting Quan Chi.
- Bo' Rai Cho is the master martial artist who clings to his home of Outworld, which Shinnok plans to overtake in MK10.
- Ashrah is a demon and former servant of Quan Chi who pledged herself to purity. Defeating Shinnok and his forces would be the perfect opportunity to free her from the Netherrealm.

To be honest, none of those characters are even in need of a major revamp, or even a small one. The only thing Drahmin and Ashrah need is more personality, while Bo' Rai Cho simply needs newer special moves, which he'd get anyway.

I mean I see your point but I still think Drahmin sucks beyond his core concept. Aesthetics and Gameplay are lacking *shrug*. I have no problem voting NO and seeing Drahmin's backstory/concept given to a new character.

Drahmin's aesthetics are one of his strong points. A dead man tortured in Hell to the point where he turned into a demon is something MK needs since it's established canon already that the more time you spend in the Netherealm, the more it corrupts and changes you, and it would be nice to see a character that has actually, permanently happened to, to prove how real the threat of that happening is. Having his skin ripped off and knives sticking out of his back is a strong visual that fits within the aesthetics of the MK universe. The tribal mask is a cool visual that adds color to his design, provides the strongest part of his story, and also fits the MK aesthetic by giving Drahmin an Asian culture/mythology flair. And the club for an arm fits the Japanese concept that Oni use iron clubs and plays on the fact that he's tortured and mutilated by him having an amputated hand.

He just needs more clothes. Which he had in his alt costume. And his alt made him a mummy, which is one of the few classic types of undead MK doesn't otherwise have (Well...there's also Onaga's soldiers, but none of them was a playable character and they're not wrapped in gauze and have more in common with the Japanese "Terracotta Army" trope.) So...yeah.

Just get rid of the buzzing flies effect. He could have a move where he spits locusts like that staff Quan Chi was going to have, though. That would look a lot better than somehow gathering flies into a "ball" shape and friggin' pitching them with his hand.
If you took all the good things about Drahmin and put them on a different character like you suggest, that character would look just like and have the same story of Drahmin with only minor visual differences. It'd be "let's make Jarek instead of bringing back Kano in MK4" all over again, that's how little would be different. What's the point of that?

I don't want to de-rail the thread further but understand that I come from the perspective of looking at the retcon as an opportunity to tighten/improve plots and characters from post-MK3 while outright omitting others. Drahmin was a concept executed poorly in my book and a new Oni/Demon character would be welcomed over a total Drahmin re-design (unless they really REALLY strayed from his original design).

I'll go ahead and admit that chronologically post MK3 is where I largely started to dislike characters and main plots.

But how would that hypothetical new Oni be any different? If you keep/transfer over the best parts of Drahmin, the new guy is going to BE Drahmin, just with a different name and...what, more skin? Hair? Both hands? Sounds boring to me.

Sounds like what Jarek is to Kano, like I said.

That's fine, it sounds awesome to me. Despite it's cultural reference I hated the club hand, fighting style, mask, and skinlessness. Ok I take that back, I like that the mask design drew on kabuki on masks but...it just looked like a hot mess to me.