The club hand is one of the best parts. Everyone in MK has 2 hands and fights like a normal person. Even the two dudes who are SUPPOSED to represent the handicapped for diversity's sake, Kabal and Kenshi, aren't in any way impeded by their disabilities.

What's wrong with one amputee fighting with a stuck-on weapon?

What's wrong with you not accepting the fact that I don't like Drahmin or his club arm?

I like to understand why people don't like things and attempt to convince them to come around to seeing them my way?
I think the English Language defines that as "debate", which is a kind of "conversation"...

Finally, I've been waiting for a conversation like this to pop up in this thread and THIS is what I want from it as well during these votes... Ahem...





Hence why these three characters are perfect to make a comeback for the next game since they HAVE a reason to return as well as have a development in their character.



You're not derailing anything, this is the kind of stuff I've been waiting for rather than having people just saying, "yes" or "no." But to go into details about your wants... I get that you're not a fan of this character, and I don't think anyone here is going to sway you from your opinion, which is totally reasonable and understandable. I'm not going to say, "hey, you need to like Drahmin because I got reasons for you to like him." However, I will say, that I don't agree with you claiming that there should be a NEW character altogether when there can be adjustments to Drahmin that can improve him quite heavily. If a new character comes in with a similar story, moves, and gameplay, why waste that time creating a brand new character when we have one already here despite that he was not that well-liked?



I actually want the flies to stay. I can see the staff in Quan Chi's possession for the next game, making him look like he's more powerful than what he was in the previous game. Just a touch of powerfulness that shows with him carrying that staff, or maybe Shinnok gives him that staff as a mean of "I trust you, here's a powerful weapon for you!"

Or something like that. I mean, I can't see the locust thing go to Drahmin, I really can't picture it.

(@Icebaby too)

What is there to debate? I don't like Drahmin. If you want to debate the merit behind cannibalizing the best parts of Drahmin as a character and giving them to a brand new character I could see that. To which, my logic is that while yes, improving Drahmin's weaknesses (aesthetics / gameplay) would be an improvement, the re-design would still be LIMITED to preserving aspects of the original character. If I'm not in love with the mask /club/ skinlessness I'd rather have them thrown out than reincorporated or reimagined. That would only happen with a new character.

For me, I don't really see an issue with Drahmin other than the obvious things that would be fixed for any character that returns from an extended absence, such as appearance and gameplay.

If you could, please explain why you haven't taken a liking to Drahmin. I'm not being a dick, btw. I really would like to know.

Why or why not he's worthy to return in the next game, of course.

I'm not attempting to convince just you, this is of course a public forum, any conversation we have here has a potential audience.

That audience could include other people who don't like Drahmin, and convincing them that his core concept is strong and deserves a second chance could influence them to agree that he should return in the next game, in which case, they become a voice. Get enough people on the same side, and you have the voice of the majority. And that has power. The devs listen to fan demand when they decide who to put on a roster, or add after the fact as DLC.
I consider my greatest failure as an MK fan to be not doing enough to help Cyber-Smoke win one of Ed's MK9 DLC polls. I'd like to do better in the future.

Hell, the audience for any given thread here could theoretically also include an NRS employee, creators do sometimes browse the forums while they're working, to keep their finger on the pulse of their fanbase.



The aspects of the character I like and want to see return are his backstory, his mask, and his club-hand. If those were transplanted to another character, would make that character into Drahmin, just with a different name. There's no point to doing such a thing.
But even if the ONLY thing you liked was the backstory, anyone familiar with MKDA who saw a bio about a conquering warlord who died a long time ago, went to Hell, and was tortured until he turned into a demon and became a torturer himself would read that and go "Well shit, that's Drahmin. Why didn't they just call this guy "Drahmin"? Is he supposed to be the same guy as Drahmin, like this dude's name is what Drahmin was called before he was a demon, and in this timeline, he's less mutilated?"
People are willing to accept complete graphical overhauls of old characters a lot more easily than they accept new characters. I mean how many MK fans STILL complain that every character created after Trilogy sucks? You yourself said you feel that way in this thread. You think a brand new guy who hasn't had any time to make an impression or build up depth or appeal to nostalgic feelings is going to win anyone over easier than improving an old character who already has past development to flesh them out will?
For me personally, even as a guy who accepts new additions fairly easily (I actually like Taven and Daegon for example), I still have a problem with Skarlet for the fact that she's A) way underdeveloped compared to all the characters she's surrounded by who can talk and have had 15-20 years of history and movie and cartoon appearances to develop them and inform who they are, and B) she isn't at all original, she's just Mileena and Ermac's stories fused together with a bunch of barely-modified versions of Mileena's moves and Nitara's blood ball. The only reason I don't hate her is she hasn't actually replaced Mileena, they both exist in the same game. Someone who actually IS replacing a pre-existing character by being nothing more of a clone of them is not going to be forgiven easily by anyone.
Hell, people are so irrational and easily angered about this sort of thing that most fans still hate Kira, even though she actually has barely anything in common with the characters she copied.

My thing to you was just I don't see a new character taking Drahmin's place. It would be much easier to fix the flaws Drahmin has than creating a brand new character to fill his shoes. I'm not here to convince you that you need to like Drahmin, it's your opinion, you're entitled to dislike them (like how I dislike the two other D characters that I accidentally skipped... or did I do that intentionally? ) I don't think anyone needs to constantly explain why they don't like something. They don't HAVE to say why, let them just not like the character and be fine with it.

Anyways, I'll be giving this character today for more votes, I'll be going backwards with the next vote since I seem to have skipped over them by accident.

Unfortunately, as much I would like to see Drahmin return, considering how Ed Boon spoke of his dislike for Drahmin I ldoubt we'd be seeing him any time soon.

Still, I hope he does make a return.

Boon says a lot of things that I don't believe or take seriously. That's just how it is with me.

Hsu Hao was intended to be a one-note character yet he returned in MK: Armageddon, much to John Vogel's dismay. It's quite possible for Drahmin to return, and he can easily be given new life. There is an interesting backstory for his character, and it does beg the question as to whether or not he had some relationship with Shao Kahn considering that Drahmin was originally from Outworld. Then you have the aspect of him being the "Oni-Tormentor", so I imagine him being a very insane and sadistic character. Perhaps some inspiration could be drawn from how Zsasz was portrayed in Batman: Arkham Asylum.

Yeah, I always liked that but it doesn't seem to come up much, the fact that Drahmin isn't just another demon who tortures the souls in Hell, he's like the head torturer. He's in charge of torture.

You'd think that would be a more important job, since punishing dead people who did bad shit when they were alive is the REASON Hell exists.

Speaking of Daegon, I just realized he got skipped along with Dairou and Darrius, too. Then again, he is Daegon.

That's what you get when you look at a list real quickly and the first thing your eyes view is the wrong name.

Anyways, I decided to end the voting a bit early with Drahmin. 7-1 that you want him to return. So, with that said, it's time to go backwards a bit with Daegon. Here is what I have to say:



I definitely do not see this character returning in game at all as a playable character. However... if the next story line ends in a way where he and his brother are mentioned, I wouldn't mind a cameo appearance. But to be in the next game as a character with any kind of significance whatsoever? No, I don't see happening mainly because he wouldn't have anywhere to fit in. I don't see anything with the Black and Red Dragon clans doing anything with the next game, I just don't see them, and I don't see him being amongst them.



If you guys want to continue discussing Drahmin, feel free to, I don't mind. However, please make sure that you still vote for the character up for debate. And can you PLEASE say either "yes" or "no" in your posts when voting? Saying that you like them isn't saying that you want them back. I don't count those votes. So please have a "yes" or "no" in your post please.

I'll go outside the box and say Yes, I actually wouldn't mind Rain's equally evil half brother appearing in the next game, given his association with Shinnok and all.

I say no.

Hell no.

A million times hell no.

Daegon is a pointless character, imo. I would much rather he simply be the founder of the Red Dragon and nothing more. To me, he has absolutely no purpose in Mortal Kombat, and neither does his brother Taven.

I say very much yes to Daegon.

First of all, storyline-wise, he's been awake for several hundred years so, unlike Taven who's still asleep in a cave, he's available at any time.

Second, he's the leader of the Red Dragons, an important faction in the MK universe. And all the other Reds we've met are worse than he is. (Yes, I just said Mavado is worse than Daegon. Let's not pretend Mavado has any real substance to him, eh? Once you take away the fact that he stole Kabal's hookswords, which was a bad choice and should never happen again, what do you have? His grappling hooks COULD be neat, but their execution in MKDA was mostly silly. Plus, Mavado barely even speaks or does anything ever, he's just some generic broody lookin' guy in a plain black trenchcoat.)

Third, he's a strong ally of Shinnok. If MK10 is Shinnok's big moment to shine, he should be bringing every weapon at his disposal to bear, the Red Dragons should be elite members of his army, even above the dumb brute zombies and demons he already commands, since they're supposed to be so highly disciplined and strategic.

Fourth, he's got an actual personality. And his voice sounds eerily similar to Animated Lex Luthor, which means now that they have the money for real voice actors, they can get the ACTUAL guy who did Lex's voice, Clancy Brown, to play him. And Clancy makes everything better. And his moves are all based on dodging and trickery which is a strong theme to build from. Hell, speaking of the Trickery thing, his relationship to Taven and Argus is a hell of a lot like Loki's to Thor and Odin. MK having its own Loki ain't a bad idea.

Fifth, if Edenia comes back, it HAS to be somehow made more important than it was in the old timeline, because in the old timeline, it was just "Damsels-in-Distress: The Planet". It was sad and useless because it was just the good-guy realm all the bad guys attacked first before they came for Earth. Well the best way to make a realm that isn't Earth important is to have a powerful bad guy come from there. Outworld is important because it attacks Earth sometimes. Netherealm is important because it attacks Earth sometimes. Well the only bad guys who come from Edenia are Tanya and Rain, who are just lackeys and will never provide a believable threat on their own...and then there's Daegon, the one Edenian villain who IS a threat because he has real power and commands an army and has been plotting and planning evil things for a very long time and stuff like that.

So here's my problem. I don't mind Taven and Daegon necessarily but the plot involving Armageddon I didn't care for and T&D are smack dab in the middle of that plot. Daegon by himself I suppose could be improved so I'll go ahead with a tentative yes.

I actually think that Razor makes very strong points for Daegon. I actually kinda like him more than Taven, to be honest....NRS really should make good use of the post-MK3 characters though they still need to have a better mindset on how to tell their stories. The massive potential is still there, but the execution still needs a lot of work.

But yeah, having Daegon in the next game would work well, and it could also bring that tension between the Red Dragon and Black Dragon clans. Furthermore, there is also possibility of interaction between the Red Dragon and the Lin Kuei in some form or another. Clancy Brown voicing Daegon is an interesting idea.

Gameplay-wise, Daegon could be fun. I like the theme of his moves starting off defensive then ending with an attack. His projectile should have had that aspect, and it should have been more like Mokap's projectile from MK: Armageddon. I'm just not sure about his Drakeswords. I can kind of understand the more East Asian influence with them being used like Chinese Dao, but he shouldn't have had dual-wielding swords.

Having said all of that, I say yes for Daegon.

No please no Daegon, I just found out his halfbrother is Rain. Please this is coming from someone who has many brothers. There usually is an Alpha brother. Please this Daegon is gonna reign on Rain's parade. It will make Rain look Beta because apparently this Daegon is really strong. Please please no family for Rain.

Also @ Drahmin. I think this look would suit him. This is a Marvel character called Penance, and he gets stronger the more pain he experiences.

Speaking as someone who actually likes the character Penance (Or at least his non-emo/S&M other super hero identity).......No. Besides, it's too late, Rain has had family since 2006. You can't just erase that kinda thing unless you're doing a full on reboot......Or make a deal with Mephisto.

Forget Daegon and Taven, they're worthless.

Its time for the Red Dragon to gain NEW recruits!

Yeah......I'd rather they just work on improving what Red Dragon characters they already have, which if you take out Daegon, the Supreme Leader of the Red Dragon, is really just Mavado now since Hsu Hao has been effectively written out of existence.And he really needs some improvement over being a non-scarred Kabal knockoff with grappling hooks.

Ok.....but Daegon is the founder and leader of the Red Dragon.....

It's quite sad how you don't know these characters. Exactly what games HAVE you played in the Mortal Kombat series?

With that question out of the way, Rain and Daegon didn't even interact at ALL during Armageddon. The only brother that encountered Rain was Taven, and he defeated Rain after he claimed that he was going to kill both him and Daegon. That obviously failed, and that was the last we saw of him. Yeah, Rain sure made one HELL of a threat there.

Please.



No.



And even so, his story is fine. Of course it'll get touched up if and when he returns, but I certainly doubt they'll erase his entire character just like that!



I'm not counting this as a vote since I asked if people could please write "yes" or "no" in their posts. One might say they like a particular character, but it doesn't tell me if they want them to return or not. Sure, it might be fairly easy to read, but I've asked to just put "yes/no" in posts from now on for an official count.