"Equally as awful"?

I was disappointed by Armageddon too but it wasn't bad, it was just mediocre. Let's save the hyperbole for the trolls, huh?

thats because you both never played the game competitively..

still doesnt mean that she sucked in MKDA and MKA & thats shes great in MK VS DC.

im like the biggest Kitana Fanboy here. i have her tattooed on my arm.

People who play competitively are a niche, not the core audience. Being "the best" or most powerful isn't everything and as long as a character is fun to play as then they did them justice gameplay-wise.
For proof, you need look no further than Dairou or MK3 Stryker. They're supposedly some of the most powerful characters in their games(I wouldn't know firsthand, but that's what I've heard many times). And yet, because of their unappealing looks/costume designs, terrible backstories, and the fact that in Dairou's case his moves are bland and boring, the majority of the fanbase despises them.

And who are you to decide that? It may be a concensus perhaps, but definitely not a fact as it is entirely subjkective.

I like Dairou, most of all I liked the newcomers in MKD. Far more intrigung and appealing than perhaps 90% of the classics. What you voiced was an opinion. Even if a popular one.

Chrome, what makes you think you can bash the entire series and profess to not even be a fan day in and day out, and after all that, the rest of us will still listen to you when you want to argue something?
Besides that, your post doesn't even make sense. "Who am I to decide that"? Decide WHAT? I didn't decide a damn thing. What I SAID was the majority of people hate those characters. Which is exactly the same as what you just said. I was discussing popularity, not facts.

Decide that the majority disliked Dairou's moves. And you seem to have missed the word concesus, but then again, perhaps not.

The only good reason why I still retain some connection to MK is because of the visual designs, and the fact that I promised that I would not leave until I have drawn ever last one of the characters. Seems I cannot make that promise come true, though.

I am no fan, not anymore. Given the situation, I would gladly put the proverbial mercybullet into MK's forehead. And if will, I will bash MK. I generally dislike it, what it has became, and what it does to people - especially here. But I have not started bashing MK. Not yet.

You are the first person I have EVER seen defend Dairou. If the people who like him aren't a minority, where the hell are they all at?
As far as his moves go...
He shoots a shuriken-shaped energy blast out of his foot. Not his hand, his foot. And they called it "Iron Leg" even though it has nothing to do with iron or the hardness of his kicks. What kind of name for a projectile is "Iron Leg"?
He falls backward and makes the ground shake.
He switches places with his opponent in a puff of smoke.
None of those even fit the character concept. They have nothing to do with being a soldier-for-hire or a former guard just like Hotaru, they're completely generic and probably assigned to him at random. Every character in Mortal Kombat except for him and Darrius have special moves that are tailored to fit their specific concept.
He carries a huge and unweildly serrated sword that doesn't seem suited to him at all, especially when one recalls the original concept art for him in MKDA suggested he'd be a ronin who dual-weilds katanas. The Dairou in the concept art seemed like a character I wanted to play. I was excited for that. He looked slim and badass, like a possible evil opposition for Kenshi. And what did we get instead? A fat ugly man with fake-looking armor and the baggiest clothes in history, who always looks like he's squatting, carrying that stupid giant scimitar.
His regular fighting styles are not visually impressive or particularly memorable. They're just "there". In fact, he stole them from Quan Chi and Mavado, two characters he has nothing in common with. And in Armageddon, he has NEITHER style, and instead has a style Bo' Rai Cho and Li Mei have both used, which proves the team has no solid definition of how this guy fights, they just throw whatever leftovers they have at him.
So what is there to like about that?

Razor, I think you are being too hard on Dairou. Not that you're not correct about your original point about him and Stryker (as much as I love Stryker), but I think you're looking into the names of special moves, his weapon style (especially considering he is NOT a ronin samurai) and for all you know, Dairou is ripped as hell underneath that fake-looking armour.

At least the dude had some bad-ass Fatalities.

He should have been saved for the next generation of Mortal Kombat games, with a story that fit in with everybody else. The Order/Chaos stuff was so rushed and felt like an extra-element to the story that we didn't need.

Being too hard on him? Why does he deserve mercy? Name some good qualities about him, some reason I should like him at all.

He's probably one of the least likely characters to return?

Wait, what? Somebody was defending Dairou? To each his/her own, but Dairou? You're serious right? Cheap ass tombstone drop Dairou? Whoa! Yay! I'm part of the Kitana vs Sonya thread.

For the mere fact he was a character with potential dropped in a game that was overcrowded and low on development in the first place? That he does, in fact, have some pretty cool Fatalities? I just think you went a bit on the hyperbolic side with your points against him, is all. I'm not suddenly championing Dairou.



Since when did people become so anti-Dairou. Last time I checked these parts, people actually thought he was somewhat good (to the point where I felt it overrated him). Where did those people go? Was I just imagining them?

Also, the fact that you hold a move against the guy for being cheap sounds pretty bitter to me. Let it go, man. It's not Dairou's fault, OK? You might want to look elsewhere for the Kitana vs. Sonya thread. See, the word versus implies imposition between the two, where in actual fact, a lot of people in here like both characters. There has been some discussion on the two characters, though, yes.

i do not recall ever ANYONE supporting/defending/liking dairu. and i've been here since before deception came out. so yeah he and darrius are pretty much the hsu hao of MKD i think.

Hey You-Know-Who what do you mean bitter? Did I sound bitter? I meant that message to be sarcastic. My keyboard must not have picked up my sarcasm as well as I thought it would.

Seriously though Dairou was a fairly bland design and not very well developed. As far holding a move against him, I don't except that I never understood why he had it to begin with. I didn't like that so many characters had a ground pound move. That type of move gets very overused in my opinion.

Every boss character gets a variation on it largely because it is a cheap move. After Jax in mk 2 almost no other character should get a ground pound move unless they have a reason.

As I stated above I can't even figure out why he had it based on his story and character. Take Kobra for instance, why could a street thug teleport again?
I would like characters in future mk games to have special moves that pertained to their characters and stories.

Example, unless you are a sorcerer, god, specter, demon, or some other kind of magical character you probably shouldn't have a teleport with some exceptions. Mileena being one since it is so much a part of her gameplay.

As for lookingf for another Sonya vs Kitana thread, once again I see my keyboard failed to transmit my good natured humorous intentions to the printed word. "Sigh" Oh well.

I spent an hour last night reading all 12 pages of this forum (Yay for me!) while I was cooking my supper, I was commentating on the fact that some of the posts seemed to take on a very hostile nature towards one character or another specifically Sonya, which is fine everyone is entitled to their opinion. I was enjoying this rather passionate discussion immensely.

And on a last note, I happen to like both characters a lot. Mk has always been blessed with a strong female cast, Sonya, Kitana, Mileena, Sindel, Jade, Tanya, and Sareena. I was very happy that both characters have finally been returned to their past gameplay glories. Especially Kitana, she has never been as good as she was since mk2.

I was disappointed that she didn't get her own chapter in story mode though.

All he does is slam people around and rip parts off them. Those kinds of finishers are a dime a dozen and feel like they were randomly assigned from a stockpile, just like his moves. There's no sticking to and building from a theme with this piece of shit character. And my entire problem with him is that he actually does NOT have potential.

I think almost all new characters have potential. Some of my favorite characters were the ones introduced in MK4 who very few other people like, like Fujin, Tanya, and Reiko. I also like Kenshi, Nitara, Bo' Rai Cho, Li Mei, Havik, Kira, Shujinko, Sareena, Taven, and Daegon. I even like Hotaru and Ashrah a little bit. I have nothing but an open mind for new characters. I like some of the ones on that list more than I like a lot of the classics.

But Dairou stands out. He stands WAY out...precisely because he does NOT have potential for the future. He's a mercenary assassin in a series where a TON of characters are mercenaries and assassins. He's tied to Hotaru, Darrius, and the realm of Seido, the ONE realm no one ever cared about and probably could be very happy never seeing again. There is literally NOTHING you can do with this character that someone else wouldn't be better at.
Combine that with his terribly ugly "My costume was designed by Chrome and it's so thick and layered that I can't stop squatting and stand up straight" appearance and those things make up the real reason I can't stand Dairou. His moves are actually incidental to me. I was just pointing out that they're shit too, which means he has nothing going for him anywhere.
I like Hsu fucking Hao more than I like Dairou.
P.S. I don't like Kobra's teleport either but at least all his OTHER moves fit his whole "I'm a budding martial artist who's learned to use chi" theme. And Mileena teleporting works because she's a ninja and ninjas are all about the disappearing and reappearing elsewhere.

I always explained Mileena's teleport in my mind as she was an evil half edenian half tarkatan clone created by Shang Tsung. He probably took a special interest in her training and taught her the teleport kick move she has.

I don't like the whole "chi" theme as a reason for characters to shoot fireballs. It seems lazy and reminds me too much of Street Fighter. I like sf and the chi thing works for them I just don't care for it in mk.

Case in point, mk vs dcu story mode. In Liu Kang's story chapter he uses his "Chi powers" to sense Flash's energies or some nonsense like that. I wanted to throw something at the tv and break my ps3. That was the one and only time in the game I found the plot indefensible.

I was waiting on Liu Kang to pull out his lightsaber and then use his midichlorian enhanced force powers, oops I mean special "Chi powers" to fight Dark Kahn and his misuse of the darkside.

Well you can not like it all you want but it's there and it what it is. Chi is the martial arts version of magic and that's true for all fiction that has those kinds of characters, it's not something Street Fighter or Dragonball came up with all on their own.

In fact, real world Shaolin monks believe in it as the explanation why they can break bricks with their chops or be stabbed by spears without their skin breaking or all the other wacky feats they can do.
If you want to get technical, chi, magic, Kenshi and Ermac's psychic powers, are ALL just different words for the SAME source of energy: the inner power of the soul. It's just about learning to use it in different ways, through different rituals and methods of focus.
I've always liked to use the blanket term for supernatural spirit-power that the movie Ghostbusters invented: "Psycho-Kinetic Energy", or PKE for short. Everyone has PKE, martial artists learn to use it through meditation and "enlightenment", sorcerers use rituals and incantations, psychics just think real hard, ghosts are the soul without a body so they're pure PKE...no matter what you call it, it bends or breaks the laws of physics, and anything that isn't "science" fits this "magic" category.
(Not that I believe in souls or chi in real life, mind you. We're talking about fictional worlds here. I only brought up what real monks believe in to explain where the idea comes from)

Yeah I know what chi is. I still don't like it being used for every character. I like the idea more of only certain characters having special abilities. The Lin Kuei, Sorcerers, gods, demons for example. I like Liu Kangs fireballs and Cage's, but it is a video game. I like in the movies how the regular characters, Sonya, Kang, Cage had no Chi powers.

Jax can have his fireballs and stuff since he has his cyborg arms. Kano has projectiles but no special powers, he throws his knives. I would like in general an approach similar to that.

On a side note it is so funny that you mention the Real Ghostbuster PKE, I just got in the mail the other day my complete collection of the Real Ghostbuters dvd all 134 episodes. I currently have it playing in the background as I type this. Great show from my childhood.

You know now that I think about it, maybe Sub Zero should call the Real Ghostbusters to deal with his specter problem.

The human characters not having powers was one of the things about the movies I hated the most. Completely takes the fun out of the whole concept, AND it makes it twice as weird when Liu and Johnny all of a sudden DO pull out the Shadow or Bike Kick.
Even before the DC crossover, I've always felt that Mortal Kombat is like a comic book world and these characters are like superheroes and villains. They do canonically have superhuman abilities and powers and that should be recognized.
In fact, that was kind of the whole point of Stryker's story in MK3. He acknowledges that he's the only ordinary guy in the group (a group which includes Sonya and Johnny) and he doesn't understand why he's a Chosen One.

I always took that as part of the deal from the very beginning. If you read the bios of the characters in the actual game mk1 and the bios in the comic book that Tobias wrote for the characters, it takes the time to specifically state that Sub Zero was from a clan that had special powers and had mastered the element of cold.

I inferred from this that the other characters were mortal and had no special powers as a result of this. Obviously it is a game and most of the characters are going to have projectiles, and this means fireballs, but I always understood in my mind it was just in the context of the videogame.

If every character has magic, or fireballs, or teleportation abilities it diminished the the truly fantastic characters like the undead ninja Scorpion, Sub Zero, Goro, Shang Tsung, or even Kitana who was a 10,000 year old assassin who by her edenian heritage was a special otherworldly character herself.

I feel that a street level thug nobody like Kobra being able to teleport and throw fireballs takes away some x-factor from the more supernatural characters in the cast.

I always thought that the fundamental point of mk was regular mortal warriors without powers fighting and defending their realm was kind of the point. Liu Kang, Sonya, Cage, Kano, Stryker, Kabal, Kira represented the regular humans, but with that you did have some supernatural exceptional characters like Sub Zero and Scorpion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that not everyone was a superhuman, but they did have extraordinary fighting abilities. You used the comic analogy which was a good one. Most of the mk cast are Batman and friends. No powers just fighting ability and brains, but the other half of the cast are like the metropolis crew gifted with special abilities and supernatural powers.

The point of Sub-Zero's bio mentioning specifically his powers was because his are mutant powers he was born with, whereas others, like the Shirai Ryu, have to learn "collective magical techniques that most humans could master with enough practice", as they elaborated on in Mythologies.

And I have always took the opposite road as far as feeling that one character having powers diminishes all the others who are supposed to be special. I think the characters should all be on an equal ground at least starting out, that's what makes them worthy to be in the game. If they were just normal humans, then anyone who knows martial arts could participate in the plot of an MK. No, all the normal humans who attended MK1 weren't playable and died.

If Sub-Zero is so powerful, how come Liu Kang is the one who won the tournament? How did Liu defeat Shao fucking Kahn, who has the powers of a god, and Raiden didn't? I'm sorry, but Batman could never beat Shang Tsung, much less Shao Kahn, in a real fight. That's why he hangs with the Justice League. Batman's brains and skills see him through the ordinary villains, but when the likes of Darkseid shows up, you need a Superman. And somehow, Liu is a Superman. (Technically, in MKvsDC, his parallel is Capt. Marvel. But Cap is Superman's equal in power, so there you go)

In fact, the whole point of Armageddon is "too many people with powers have shown up now, the strain of all that magic is tearing the realms apart."

Batman couldn't take on Shang Tsung or Shao Kahn? The guy's beaten superman (in alternate timelines i.e. Dark Knight Returns) and fought him for a significant period of time without losing in canon (Hush).
Mr. Freeze as he currently is would tear Sub-Zero to shreds but Batman still takes him on.

The real problem in Batman's involvement is his style of warfare is more complicated than 1 on 1 fistfights. In this game I can use Batman to defeat Wonder Woman. While I think that if the confrontation were to take place in a comic book, that Batman would Win, he certainly wouldn't do so by throwing normal batarangs at her. It would involve a complex plan that took into account far more than his physical ability vs her physical ability.

Sorry if this comes off as offensive. I mean none but can come off that way alot.

I do. I've been hear for years, too, and I'm sure I've read posts about people saying they liked him as a fighter, his special moves, his Fatalities and glad he made the game even though he was never really fleshed out. I've seen him on a few "Who do you want back for MK8" lists, too.

Batman has used Kryptonite every single time he fought Superman. Shang and Kahn have no such weakness.

And I completely disagree about Mr. Freeze. Sub-Zero in his current iteration, with his medallion and enchanted ancestral armor, has got to be stronger than Freeze's mechanical suit AND Subbie's probably immune to being frozen by now. (Boon stated in an interview he wanted to include a mechanic where certain characters would be immune to certain powers and specifically mentioned Superman's freeze-breath not working on Sub, but they didn't have time to implement it)

As far as Batman being able to fight his more powerful peers in this game goes, there's a difference between what can be done in gameplay and what can be done in story. We CAN beat up Raiden with Kano, the player has been able to since the very first game...but I'm certain that canonically, Raiden would never lose a fight to Kano even on his worst day.
I'm really not interested in getting into an argument about who Batman could and could not beat, though. Comic book character "____ vs. ____" debates are rather annoying. I was just trying to demonstrate that no one with human-level strength and skill could have won MK1, 2, 3, or 4, and Liu's powers have to be stronger than people think they are in order for him to hang in the same league as the likes of Shao Kahn.