Obviously, I'm going to go with Sub-Zero.

Scorpion used to be my favorite overall. But now they've made a total mess of his storyline and turned him into an incompetant jerk...so, I prefer Sub-Zero now.

I agree that they somewhat screwed up his storyline, but not nearly enough to call him an "incompetent jerk".

Personally to me, neither of them is charming and preferable, both have cheap (and uninteresting, and overrated, and dated) special moves and it often isn't too much of a challenge to play with them. Scorpion, as Xiaodun mentioned, has an almost never-changing storyline of an avenging undead, and Sub Zero took the throne of a No1 MK's hero and logo, which could have easily and justly belonged to any other of the MK1 or MK2's combatants. I mean, freezing is the most special of all magical features which the combatants possess? The fans need some imagination and broad-mindedness. And their nearly identicaly costumes are, well, not more enchanting than Raiden's lightning attire, or MK1 Shang Tsung's mandarin raiment, or Baraka's baldness and teeth, or the cyborgs' appearance...


But, to answer the question, I "like" Scorpion more... He is more mystic, more magical, (hopefully) has a more prosperous storyline future because of his not having been exploited wisely enough.... And, yes, I excluded his spear move.

The correct term would be the fuckup.

Ahhh yes... no thread containing the word Scorpion would be complete without a hateful comment from Chrome... and I would expect no less.

In the same breath I'll say the same for myself, except it would be a comment of hopeful admiration. Yeah, Scorpion's story is stagnant, but I feel the potential is there for redemption in future installments.

It's not just that his story is stagnant. His character is also a big joke. He's going to need to be fixed in several areas, not just story and character. Is there potential for redemption in future installments? Well, yes, there kind of is. However, this potential has an extremely small chance of being explored. If you check out the MK: Resurrection story listed in my sig and take a look at what we're doing for Scorpion, you'll see that we're trying to fix him.

This was really doing a big favor for people who still like Scorpion as well as for those who don't like what is happening with Scorpion and want him to be fixed. But at the end of the day, is it really worth it? What Scorpion has going for him are just his gimmicks. He's not really a wholesome character, and the potential that he had before was greater back in MK1-MK3, even if there wasn't a whole lot going on there.

I realize that, creatively speaking, what it would take to make Scorpion more complete will probably not happen. I also realize that people have a tendency of confusing their opinion with facts. Just because you don't like Scorpion, which is fine, doesn't necessarily really make him a lost cause.

With any creative endeavor, you're only limited by your own imagination. If you don't find Scorpion to be a very interesting character in the first place, of course you're going to think that developing him will be a waste of time... you're simply not inspired by him. If you like him as I do, reinventing him would be enjoyable and more than likely a successful pursuit.

At this point, Scorpion is more or less a blank slate. What little "story" he has (as with most other MK characters) could be taken in almost any direction because there's no real depth to tie him to anything substantial. The sky's the limit... I see unlimited opportunities.

At the end of the day it could easily be said, objectively, that he's good for the franchise on a monetary level... he sells units. Whether or not Vogel and Boon want to go out on a limb and fiddle with Scorpion's formula, well... that's yet to be seen. I sure as hell would.

What you have to understand that I used to like Scorpion back when he actually had something going for him. With the way his story and personality had been retconned, he's been getting worse as evidenced in MKSM and MKA. You bring up him being more or less a blank state. I disagree. That is applicable to the likes of characters such as Jade and maybe even Sindel, but not Scorpion.

With Scorpion, he's been going deeper and deeper into the grave, so to speak. It's painful to see just how bad he's become, because I'd rather have him be redeemed. The problem is that he's on the verge of being iredeemable, almost as if the final nail on the coffin is going to be placed unless he drastically improves. This is why I feel that developing him further would likely be a waste of time.

In fact, there are even fans who like Scorpion being redundant, shallow, and annoying. What makes Scorpion sell is that he's been around since the first MK and that he has his gimmicks like his catch phrases and his so-called spear.

It's not so much an issue of limited imagination. It has more to do with rectifying all the crap that has badly damaged him. In XiahouDun84's next-gen MK stories, he completely ignores Scorpion's pathetic MKA storyline. But in the MK: Resurrection story that Paragon, DNOMYTE, and I have been working on, we decided to go with the harder route by continuing off from his MKA story and trying to eventually set his story in the right direction.

If Scorpion is improved in MK8 and on, great. If not, I wouldn't be surprised, and to me, that would be the final nail on the coffin for him.

Gimmicks rock. It's a fighting game. A hell ninja who throws a spear on a rope and tells people to "Get over Here!" is automatically badass even when he's getting the shit kicked out of him or chasing the same character for several games.

It's Mortal Kombat, not Shakespeare.

I hear what you're saying and agree with you on the standpoint of trying to salvage Scorpion's patch worked story ideas into something coherent... it's pretty much crap. In lieu of this "anything goes" retconned approach to story telling and character, I see creative freedom. I do, however, think they should quickly wrap up the tired Quan Chi vendetta angle and lead into something else appropriate.

Personally, I've always hated his story from MK2 on. It never made sense to me for a guy who's returned from Hell to feel the need to atone for anything, let alone become the protector of someone who was involved with the organization responsible for his demise. With the release of every MK his storyline has gotten increasingly convoluted and my interest in it has lessened accordingly. With that said, maybe I've created my own personal vision of Scorpion over the years. I see all the different directions he could be taken in with the prerequisite of abandoning what has been done in the recent past.

Like I said, from your point of view I can see how it would be frustrating to try and make sense of the non-sense. I also agree that now, a definitive, new and consistent character direction needs to be taken with Scorpion once and for all. Is it too late? In a series with this kind of longevity, I don't think so.

Yes, I know that it's a fighting game and that it's not Shakespeare. Sure, Scorpion is a hell ninja that throws a spear on a rope, but so what? Sub-Zero is a ninja-type character who shoots ice. Raiden is a god that wears a hat and shoots electricity. Goro has four arms. Jax has big nipples. Jarek looks like an evil Billy Bob Thorton.

The thing is, characters like Sub-Zero have grown beyond just those simple traits. But with Scorpion, all he really has now are just those gimmicks, nothing else. Even putting the story aside, there's still the problem with Scorpion's character, which seems to have drawn influence from the movies and shows.



It has to do with Scorpion's semblance of honor and nobility, adding a bit of a dimension to his character. This is enhanced when we get the backstory with him joining the Shirai Ryu as a means of providing for his family.

When Scorpion was released from the Netherrealm once again, he was bent on tracking down Sub-Zero. However, when he noticed that Sub-Zero spared the life of his opponent, he was confused. He realized that this isn't the same Sub-Zero that he killed.

When learning that this is actually the younger brother of the Sub-Zero he killed, he feels a sense of guilt, because he basically took away someone who had a family. Had the younger Sub-Zero been just like his older brother, Scorpion wouldn't likely have felt a bit guilty. But seeing Sub-Zero's compassion and mercy, he can see that this Sub-Zero is different.

In MK3, we see that Scorpion is hired by Shao Kahn to take down the Chosen Warriors, but Scorpion learns that Sub-Zero is one of them. Scorpion remembers his vow and turns against Kahn. This shows Scorpion's good potential.

Trust me, it's better than the brash, incompetent, revenge-crazed jerk that he is now. He's pretty much a 1-dimensional villain despite the fact that he had been seen as a neutral character in the past. But hey, this is retconning. To have more and more retconning would really show just how malleable MK's story and characterization is as MKSM demonstrates.

I understand the thoughts behind his MK2 & 3 endings and why they are generally considered better than those in later games. I feel as though depth could have been added to his character without compromising what I saw as the the fundamentals of his MK1 ending. The younger Sub-Zero spares an opponents life... great! That doesn't mean Scorpion would go as far as to become his protector, and again, I still don't and never will like the idea of Scorpion being remorseful for something he returned from Hell to accomplish. For me it makes no sense.

I'll agree with you in that it was a slightly more involved direction than the painfully linear one we have now.

I disagree in saying that he's a 1-dimensional villain despite the fact that he had been seen as a neutral character in the past. Wanting revenge doesn't mean you're evil... it means you want revenge, like most of us do at some point in our lives. Given the nature of what Scorpion went through, I'd say he's justified. All it means is that he's not about "sides". For me, the concept of a character abandoning the ideals of "right" and "wrong" and not being associated with either is far deeper and more interesting than most of the ideas in the MK universe. Chivalry and villainy are very two-dimensional, childish concepts.

As far as the MK storyline being seen as malleable, well, I'd say the seeds for that were probably planted back in '93. I've never seen the translucent storylines in MK as being terribly deep or consistent from game to game. Retconning can be a relative term that gets abused, and sometimes not used enough.

Wanting revenge is one thing. But going around, being an incompetent jerk, is something else. MKSM and MKA really highlight post-retcon Scorpion. Taven did nothing to Scorpion yet Scorpion wants to kill him in order to get back at the Elder Gods. Is that really something to be justified? The same thing can be said about when Scorpion lures Liu Kang and Kung Lao, because he wants them dead for some unexplained reason. What did they do to him?

Granted that MK's storyline wasn't that deep back then. While there had been retcons before, at least ones like Kitana's origins were fine. But the retcon regarding Scorpion doesn't do anything to help him. He's basically been chasing after younger Sub-Zero since MK2, only to find out in MK4 that Quan Chi is the real killer. But there's the issue of Scorpion believing the older Sub-Zero to be the killer, not the younger one. Did he believe that both of them were responsible or could it be that he mistook the younger Sub-Zero for the older one, not knowing there are two Sub-Zeros?

Yeah, MKSM is a fun game ( god, Scorpion punishes) but any resemblance of a story is only there in a desperate attempt to give the levels and boss fights some miserable sort of direction... not usually substantial motivation for great storytelling.

The whole thing with Scorpion and Taven is asinine, I agree. Those kinds of ideas make me wish Scorpion was a secret character in future installments... in other words, just don't give him a story at all.

I think you and I both know the real explanation of Scorpion's confusion with what Sub-Zero he currently hates. It's called, we have a deadline, the character endings aren't done yet... just finish the f*cking game so our stock holders don't sh*t their pants!!

Only a hardcore MK fan could relate to the frustration caused when making a buck overshadows the creative process.

Well, seeing as Sub-Zero became Noob Saibot, I'm going for Subby

I’d bet Scorpion's MKA konquest was quickly thrown together, replacing originally where that half dragon guy in the crypt would’ve been. (it even says a concept of a sub-boss in the final chapter of konquest)

I view MKA as a tribute game ala MKTrillogy (fun to play, but sacrifices the story) and MKSM as a bonus (had villains just for the sake of being villains). If MK8 fails, there’s no excuses.

I personaly think sub zero has some very cool powers. But thats just because I like the cold. I like people who freeze stuff. Iceman, Frozon,and Frost for starters.

Scorpion for gameplay, Sub-Zero for the storyline.

agree

well who cares if sub zero or ermac or rayden have gone beyond there story, maybe scorpions story is supposed to be that way, ever crossed the mind, and every character is unique. characters evolve and the stories might get better, not to mention i never see big differences in anybodies story to be honest, b/c when it comes to it, they are gonna continue to fight. also since scorpion plays the neutral role, and he's dead, he's a ninja. what else do want from him, he wont die again, he does like any other character...fights. and no allies so he's always on his own. and if im correct, his story basially state he's on one final mission to find his family and defeat quan chi. so until he does that then the story can expand but let that happen first and its goin on like that for a reason that i dont kno but im sure there is, cuz look, thats ed boons favorite character so im sure he has alot of reason for it. scorpion all the way would win, a vey tough fight, but in the end its all scorpions.

I prefer Sub-Zero. But i like Scorpion just as much.

ok so scorpions family does die. now hes just trying to kill quan chi. after tat i bet the story gets interesting, like i said, ed boons favorite character and i think he wants it to be a big change b/c i dont think he will abandon his favorite character

I hate the fact that Scorpion is in every damn game. I don't hate the guy or anything but there is one thing that always bothered me. HE'S ALREADY DEAD! I mean seriously, whats the point of fighting him if he's fucking dead! He is always gonna come back so kombat is completely pointless. Sub~Zero is gonna have my vote because he doesnt always think about revenge.