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GodlyShinnok
05/31/2011 04:31 AM (UTC)
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TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
Slightly decrease startup frames on Sub's Ground Freeze. However, doing this would probably require another tweak somewhere else to balance it out.



They can make it a blockable low in return for the decrease, because right now it's just a waste of space.
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rayden4u2335
05/31/2011 04:44 AM (UTC)
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Now darkpassenger is a smart dude! Although i do disagree with some of those suggestions like:

Remove OTG property on Smoke's Smoke Bomb, but in return, slightly buff his damage.

I believe the OTG setup is fine. And it requires extremely tight timing anyway so I think it's good

Change Sheeva's low command throw to a high throw, but make it so it cannot connect on an airborn opponent.

I think it's good being a low seeing as how it's an unblockable (i think)


Slightly decrease startup frames on Sub's Ground Freeze. However, doing this would probably require another tweak somewhere else to balance it out.

I think it should have slightly fast startup, but a REALLY small increase seeing as how it's unblockable. Also make it so u can dash cancel out of ground freeze

And I believe they should change stryker's roll toss a mid so he has good options against duckers.
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TemperaryUserName
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05/31/2011 04:48 AM (UTC)
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TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
Remove OTG property on Smoke's Smoke Bomb, but in return, slightly buff his damage.

That would put Smoke in bottom tier. He can't break 35% damage without it, and his offensive/defensive options are slightly below average. He doesn't have much mix-up on pressure, and his normals are nothing that impressive (removing the startup on his forward+4 would do wonders for him).

And anyway, removing the OTG goes against the essence of Smoke: he's an anti-zoning character; he relies on pokes and baiting punishable moves to win. I'm telling you guys right now: no one is going to be terrified of a higher damage non-OTG smoke bomb. When people play against Ermac, it's not usually the green fireball that morbidly sits on their minds.

All I'm saying is that if you take away the OTG, you're essentially cutting Smoke's balls off.
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05/31/2011 04:57 AM (UTC)
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EDIT: I might have made a double-post. Might have.
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TheDarkPassenger
05/31/2011 04:59 AM (UTC)
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GodlyShinnok Wrote:
TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
Slightly decrease startup frames on Sub's Ground Freeze. However, doing this would probably require another tweak somewhere else to balance it out.



They can make it a blockable low in return for the decrease, because right now it's just a waste of space.


Great idea--that would definitely do the trick.

rayden4u2335 Wrote:Change Sheeva's low command throw to a high throw, but make it so it cannot connect on an airborn opponent.

I think it's good being a low seeing as how it's an unblockable (i think)


Excellent point on it being unblockable. If they changed it to a high, it couldn't also be unblockable and a pop-up...that would be insane. Hmm, I'm just trying to think of a way to give Sheeva a couple more options on offense.
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TheDarkPassenger
05/31/2011 05:04 AM (UTC)
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TemperaryUserName Wrote:
TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
Remove OTG property on Smoke's Smoke Bomb, but in return, slightly buff his damage.

That would put Smoke in bottom tier. He can't break 35% damage without it, and his offensive/defensive options are slightly below average. He doesn't have much mix-up on pressure, and his normals are nothing that impressive (removing the startup on his forward+4 would do wonders for him).

And anyway, removing the OTG goes against the essence of Smoke: he's an anti-zoning character; he relies on pokes and baiting punishable moves to win. I'm telling you guys right now: no one is going to be terrified of a higher damage non-OTG smoke bomb. When people play against Ermac, it's not usually the green fireball that morbidly sits on their minds.

All I'm saying is that if you take away the OTG, you're essentially cutting Smoke's balls off.


Completely agreed as you interpreted it, but when I said buff damage, I meant overall, not just on the smoke bomb.
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ironman357thegod
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bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.

05/31/2011 08:50 PM (UTC)
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rayden4u2335 Wrote:
ironman alot of those suggestions are stupid. They can't change the input commands they are already there. If Kabal's EX groundsaw a poppup, he'd be way cheap. If cyrax's EX bomb were all 3 like cybersub's, it'd be impossible to dodge.


it would be impossible to dodge really? Then why are cyber subs?
Kabal would be cheap? WTF how? my suggestions bring variety and allow for more options, dont say its stupid then cowar away as for the inputs i was just saying, or at least make it easier to chain with the knife combo

last time i check mk was a fighting game, not for pussies
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mkmileena
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05/31/2011 11:16 PM (UTC)
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Mileena's GROUND ROLL should be a LOW HIT. it doesn't make sense that you could Stand and block it with your arms which are up high. it gets blocked way to much and is so punishable when it is. the girl only has a few special moves, none of them stun. give her the damn low hit roll.

and i really dont care if it makes her cheap. or have a 50% success. or whatevs

If ermac, or any other character, had the roll I'd still say it should be a low hit.
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TheDarkPassenger
06/01/2011 12:09 AM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:
Mileena's GROUND ROLL should be a LOW HIT. it doesn't make sense that you could Stand and block it with your arms which are up high. it gets blocked way to much and is so punishable when it is. the girl only has a few special moves, none of them stun. give her the damn low hit roll.

and i really dont care if it makes her cheap. or have a 50% success. or whatevs

If ermac, or any other character, had the roll I'd still say it should be a low hit.


No, you should care if it makes her cheap because we care if the game is balanced.

Secondly, is your argument for it to be a low attack that it appears to hit low? So, the animation matching the hit type is more important to you than balance? And you don't care if it imbalances the game because it's Mileena who is obviously your favorite character.

Look at my pic--it's Ermac. He's my favorite character in all of the games, but I know that he was way overpowered, so I've been in full support of a nerf for him. Look at my previous post--I recommend even further damage reduction. You need to think of the game from the overall balance picture instead of focusing on your favorite character and wanting them to be godly--it would make for a bad game that no one plays or supports.

Mileena is fine as is--I would maybe give her a tiny damage buff, but nothing more. She has plenty of tools in her arsenal to give most characters a run for their money.
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06/01/2011 12:53 AM (UTC)
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TheDarkPassenger Wrote:
Completely agreed as you interpreted it, but when I said buff damage, I meant overall, not just on the smoke bomb.

Oh.

You're right about me misunderstanding your post, but I don't see how buffing his overall damage compensates the lack of OTG. He still has to get in for the higher damage to matter, and Smoke doesn't have a decent rushdown game (comparatively).

But let's jump to the root of the issue: why do you think the OTG makes Smoke overpowered? I personally don't think he's powerful enough to deserve nerfs, but perhaps I could live with the smoke bomb having more recovery frames. I could see someone making a case for that. Removing the OTG (even if he does stay the same tier) changes the philosophy behind Smoke's gameplay. It just seems really unnecessary to me.
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rayden4u2335
06/01/2011 01:05 AM (UTC)
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Ironman357thegod said:

it would be impossible to dodge really? Then why are cyber subs?
Kabal would be cheap? WTF how? my suggestions bring variety and allow for more options, dont say its stupid then cowar away as for the inputs i was just saying, or at least make it easier to chain with the knife combo

last time i check mk was a fighting game, not for pussies

If cyrax's bomb were to be like 3 for cyber sub's, it would be nearly impossible to dodge because cyrax's bombs cover WAY more surface area than cyber's ice bombs

and if Kabal's groundsaw were a popup, he'd have a 50/50 mixup both granting popup which could lead to 30% or more damage.

You can't change the combos because they are already there.

Kano is already powerful (maybe even overpowered) as it is. They aren't gonna make it so you can hold the EX knives in the air until the opponent f's up. Too overpowered

And if those buffs aren't because you suck, why are over half of them for Kano which seems to be your main? Kano is already borderline overpowered status
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mkmileena
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06/01/2011 01:22 AM (UTC)
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yes, that is important to me and is my reasoning, which im entitled to. get over it. and no, just because she's my favorite has no effect on my opinion. like i said. if overpowered ermac had the ground roll, id still prefer it to hit low even tho i hate him. sorry if common sense is less important than playing fair to other characters. (although i dont see how it is)
how would it make her so imbalenced? this is the part im having such difficulty with. because its a popup?
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ironman357thegod
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bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.

06/01/2011 01:52 AM (UTC)
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kano is overpowered?? ARE YOU HIGH LMAO 38 damage is over powered?
Everyone in this game can do atleast 3 if not 4 pop-ups and combo off of them with 40 damage plus yet kano can only do 2. His combos fukn suk balls, you try to add more hits just to get the same damage WTF is that? He needs a buff, i main the shit out of him, his knife toss barely holds the person, he has pointless chains, etc. Plz you know nothing about kano just stop.

And you act as if NRS cant tweak the bombs range

once again its not for pussies

Kano is overpowered, LMAO thats goldsmile
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GodlyShinnok
06/01/2011 01:59 AM (UTC)
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Kano doesn't need a buff, if anything his up ball should be more punishable.
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rayden4u2335
06/01/2011 02:07 AM (UTC)
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"kano is overpowered?? ARE YOU HIGH LMAO 38 damage is over powered?
Everyone in this game can do atleast 3 if not 4 pop-ups and combo off of them with 40 damage plus yet kano can only do 2. His combos fukn suk balls, you try to add more hits just to get the same damage WTF is that? He needs a buff, i main the shit out of him, his knife toss barely holds the person, he has pointless chains, etc. Plz you know nothing about kano just stop.

And you act as if NRS cant tweak the bombs range

once again its not for pussies

Kano is overpowered, LMAO thats gold

Dude doing the most damage isn't the only thing that constitutes a character as "overpowered" And no, he doesn't have pointless chains. He gets a 50/50 mixup, they changed that shin kick to a low, one of the fastest projectiles in the game, a hard to read blanka ball that has no startup, THE best AA in the game that is impossible to punish. The average match vs kano."

Round 1 FIGHT!
Kano jumps back to full screen. Knife, knife, knife, knife, knife. Slowly chipping you to death. You get in close. Kano Upball. back to full screen again. knife, knife, knife, knife, you get in close and you block the upball. Before you are able to capitalize. Whoops, another upball immediately after the first one! knife knife knife your dead. And if cyber sub's bomb is exactly the same as cyrax's bomb, that's LESS diversity among the characters. So you expect NRS to change cyrax's EX bomb from the attaching popup one to 3 bombs? What reason would they have for that?! Cyrax is already top tier
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ironman357thegod
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bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.

06/01/2011 02:09 AM (UTC)
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so once again struggling for 38% doesnt need a buff even though baraka can wreck that in 2 secs now
Are you guys forgetting he cant combo into his xray?
Plus:
B2,3 cant be canceled and trying to string the knife and the ball is ridiculous
B2,f1 cant be chained with the knife and ball combo so wtf is the point
3,3 is useless

these are legit criticisms because i care, you mine as well just keep bustin his BnB 30% and not even try for the 8% dif

buff kano
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ironman357thegod
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bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.

06/01/2011 02:13 AM (UTC)
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rayden4u2335 Wrote:
kano is overpowered?? ARE YOU HIGH LMAO 38 damage is over powered?
Everyone in this game can do atleast 3 if not 4 pop-ups and combo off of them with 40 damage plus yet kano can only do 2. His combos fukn suk balls, you try to add more hits just to get the same damage WTF is that? He needs a buff, i main the shit out of him, his knife toss barely holds the person, he has pointless chains, etc. Plz you know nothing about kano just stop.

And you act as if NRS cant tweak the bombs range

once again its not for pussies

Kano is overpowered, LMAO thats gold

Dude doing the most damage isn't the only thing that constitutes a character as "overpowered" And no, he doesn't have pointless chains. He gets a 50/50 mixup, they changed that shin kick to a low, one of the fastest projectiles in the game, a hard to read blanka ball that has no startup, THE best AA in the game that is impossible to punish. The average match vs kano.

Round 1 FIGHT!
Kano jumps back to full screen. Knife, knife, knife, knife, knife. Slowly chipping you to death. You get in close. Kano Upball. back to full screen again. knife, knife, knife, knife, you get in close and you block the upball. Before you are able to capitalize. Whoops, another upball immediately after the first one! knife knife knife your dead


oh i get it now, you suk so you think hes overpowered just like ppl think raiden is overpowered because they suk. Its also funny how that f4,b2 adds 1% damage which is the crap from 3d mk games. I already showed his pointless chains and once again if everybody can bust 40s, it doesnt matter that he is the best zoner
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rayden4u2335
06/01/2011 02:18 AM (UTC)
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i never said that raiden wasn't overpowered he is too. But the Kano buff was just too much IMO. it doesn't matter that you can't combo into his X-ray. It's an UNBLOCKABLE grapple move with SUPER ARMOR which deals 41% damage nearly half of your health. And no, I do not suck at this game. I'm a decent player. I was on Sherdog and this guy named Cyke_Out who would absolutely WRECK your Kano with his even acknowledges him as overpowered.
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ironman357thegod
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bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.

06/01/2011 02:42 AM (UTC)
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rayden4u2335 Wrote:
i never said that raiden wasn't overpowered he is too. But the Kano buff was just too much IMO. it doesn't matter that you can't combo into his X-ray. It's an UNBLOCKABLE grapple move with SUPER ARMOR which deals 41% damage nearly half of your health. And no, I do not suck at this game. I'm a decent player. I was on Sherdog and this guy named Cyke_Out who would absolutely WRECK your Kano with his even acknowledges him as overpowered.


His kano would wreck mine because he thinks he's over powered. Wow, his 1 on 1 game is the best i know but he isnt overpowered. Once again you fail.

PLUS RAIDEN ISNT BROKEN AT ALL, and im sayin kano cant combo into it so thats a even better reason to buff him

come on youre a failure
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rayden4u2335
06/01/2011 02:47 AM (UTC)
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Uhh Kano can combo lol. Thank god you don't work for NRS And no, I didn't say that you misinterpreted what I said. I'm saying he's a great Kano player who has been playing Kano since day 1 and even he thought the buff was too much. And if Kano can't combo, what are these called then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0BPWwh8a34
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ironman357thegod
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bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.

06/01/2011 02:50 AM (UTC)
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have fun struggling for 38 while fukn reptile bust 50%s just like nightwolf, just like cyrax, etc.

thank god i dont work for NRS because shit would actually make sense

its also funny how im talkin to hardcore mk ppl that agreed with everything i said so whatever

you think raiden is overpowered lol btw that link proved everything i said, fukn 33% after nine hits LMAO are u kidding? He didnt even do the 38%, just stop
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rayden4u2335
06/01/2011 03:01 AM (UTC)
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They nerfed Reptile's damage the most damage I can do with x-Ray is 44%. Cyrax can't do any more than 35% without the bomb trap, which was nerfed. Nightwolf has to spend meter to do that much. Nightwolf's bnb's do around 25-39% damage and nightwolf has no mixups and no low combo starters.

And no, if you worked for NRS you'd just buff your boyfriend Kano and make the rest of the cast obsolete
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rayden4u2335
06/01/2011 03:07 AM (UTC)
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MKMileena said:
Mileena's GROUND ROLL should be a LOW HIT. it doesn't make sense that you could Stand and block it with your arms which are up high. it gets blocked way to much and is so punishable when it is. the girl only has a few special moves, none of them stun. give her the damn low hit roll.

and i really dont care if it makes her cheap. or have a 50% success. or whatevs

If ermac, or any other character, had the roll I'd still say it should be a low hit.

It doesn't make sense that you can block it with your arms. so by your logic, you can't block scorpion's spear. HOW YOU GONNA BLOCK A SPEAR WITH YOUR ARMS! or you can't block sub zero's iceball or your arms get frozen and you can't fight anymore.

See how that works? Ohh right it doesn't, it's gamebreaking. Mileena is fine as is.
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ironman357thegod
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bad kids, bad kids, whatcha gonna do sequel doesn't know what to do when he gets straight up shited by you.

06/01/2011 03:18 AM (UTC)
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You fail so bad

of course i know rep was nerfed retard and you dont do the xray within his combos because he has serious damage scaling (fail 1)

Cyrax can do high 40s easily lmao kid you suck so bad (fail 2)

NIghtwolf has to spend meter right? YET FUKN KANO's ONLY ADDS 1-2%, so now what (fail 3)

nightwolf doesnt have a low starter yet f3,b4 can hit low (which is fukn stupid considering he hits youre damn toe) (fail 4)

And if i did work at NRS kano would have combos that make fukn sense, why are kabal and jax getting buffed? OH THATS RIGHT BECAUSE THEIR COMBO DAMAGE SUX

kthxbai u lost
and youre a proponent of keeping mileenas hit high because it would be broken, oh plz just play sf
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rayden4u2335
06/01/2011 03:33 AM (UTC)
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You fail so bad

of course i know rep was nerfed retard and you dont do the xray within his combos because he has serious damage scaling (fail 1)
Even without Xray his damage is seriously lowered. And resorting to petty insults is fail on your part

Cyrax can do high 40s easily lmao kid you suck so bad (fail 2)
Maybe with Xray show me one meterless combo from cyrax post patch that does that much that's not in the corner

NIghtwolf has to spend meter right? YET FUKN KANO's ONLY ADDS 1-2%, so now what (fail 3)
Yes 3 bars in a combo for 44%, Kano is 41% just on his xray

nightwolf doesnt have a low starter yet f3,b4 can hit low (which is fukn stupid considering he hits youre damn toe) (fail 4)
Fail on your part because the toe stomp is a high

And if i did work at NRS kano would have combos that make fukn sense, why are kabal and jax getting buffed? OH THATS RIGHT BECAUSE THEIR COMBO DAMAGE SUX
Show me where it says Kabal and Jax are getting buffed

kthxbai u lost
and youre a proponent of keeping mileenas hit high because it would be broken, oh plz just play sf

And NRS is nerfing Kano. So much for you thinking he needs more buffs
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