cage didnt die twice
2D Kombat Klassics
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cage didnt die twice
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posted03/05/2005 09:01 AM (UTC)by

as it turns out in the misc. facts and notes section of www.tabmok99.mk5.com, johnny cage did not die like it said during mk3.
as it turns out, he was just brutally injured and the mk press claimed that johnny died. john vogel said that it was due to "bad writing" and that he didnt die until mkda. true?
(btw, do you think that the earthrealm characters became more arrogant with each passing tournament which resulted in an inevitable death?) i do. now they're alive which sucks
as it turns out, he was just brutally injured and the mk press claimed that johnny died. john vogel said that it was due to "bad writing" and that he didnt die until mkda. true?
(btw, do you think that the earthrealm characters became more arrogant with each passing tournament which resulted in an inevitable death?) i do. now they're alive which sucks

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shotgunpuma Wrote:
as it turns out in the misc. facts and notes section of www.tabmok99.mk5.com, johnny cage did not die like it said during mk3.
as it turns out, he was just brutally injured and the mk press claimed that johnny died. john vogel said that it was due to "bad writing" and that he didnt die until mkda. true?
(btw, do you think that the earthrealm characters became more arrogant with each passing tournament which resulted in an inevitable death?) i do. now they're alive which sucks
as it turns out in the misc. facts and notes section of www.tabmok99.mk5.com, johnny cage did not die like it said during mk3.
as it turns out, he was just brutally injured and the mk press claimed that johnny died. john vogel said that it was due to "bad writing" and that he didnt die until mkda. true?
(btw, do you think that the earthrealm characters became more arrogant with each passing tournament which resulted in an inevitable death?) i do. now they're alive which sucks
Cage did die at least once( see MKT bio). That was during the events of MK3 when Kahn's evasion force came to Earth. In MKT he came back to help the Earth realm fighers . After that he went back to the heaves. It was during the events of MK4 that Cage returned to Earth for good( as in back from the dead again and to present time. I don't see how Cage did died in MK: DA since he is in. Since the events of MK4 he is back and making movies and fighting along side Earthrealm fighters


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I, Cleric
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ummm. no. what im trying to say is they have now changed his bio due to "bad writing". then he died during mkda. hes in it because he entered. hes not in mkd because he died during mkda

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shotgunpuma Wrote:
ummm. no. what im trying to say is they have now changed his bio due to "bad writing". then he died during mkda. hes in it because he entered. hes not in mkd because he died during mkda
ummm. no. what im trying to say is they have now changed his bio due to "bad writing". then he died during mkda. hes in it because he entered. hes not in mkd because he died during mkda
Some people have a differ POV on what happen to the character that lead the assult on Shang's palace. As you know MK: Deception's intro shows the majority of from Earthrealm on the ground. Some people think that they are dead others like myself that that they are knocked out. Anyway. I don't think those characters died unless said so like Kitana on the assult on Tsung's palace.
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Jade's bio says they were all dead.
And I don't buy that whole "bad writing" crap. Johnny Cage died and was resurrected. Says so in MK4.
And I don't buy that whole "bad writing" crap. Johnny Cage died and was resurrected. Says so in MK4.


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I agree that Johnny Cage did die in MK3 and was resurrected. And I can see how his MKDA story about him constantly getting killed and resurrected can be interpreted as him never dying. But like some before said its all on perspective.
I see that bio as more of an inside joke between the hardcore fans and the creators of how lame it was about Johnny Cage always being able to come back to life and they are just kinda acknowleding that partly because they are trying to bring MK back into the popular light again and they are trying to get rid of all the annoyances of lame stories of constant resurrection.
And on the assault on Shang Tsung's palace all the characters Jax, Kitana, Kung Lao, Johnny Cage and Sonya all died in the attack. And I quote the first line in Jade's bio:
"I had arrived too late. Kitana and her allies from Earthrealm had been slain in an epic battle against the Deadly Alliance."
However even if that first sentence was not there the next part of her bio would still say they were dead:
"As I knelt beside her, a menacing, dragon-like creature strode across the bridge to the palace. I leapt out of sight and watched as he resurrected the dead and ordered them to regroup near the Living Forest."
I see that bio as more of an inside joke between the hardcore fans and the creators of how lame it was about Johnny Cage always being able to come back to life and they are just kinda acknowleding that partly because they are trying to bring MK back into the popular light again and they are trying to get rid of all the annoyances of lame stories of constant resurrection.
And on the assault on Shang Tsung's palace all the characters Jax, Kitana, Kung Lao, Johnny Cage and Sonya all died in the attack. And I quote the first line in Jade's bio:
"I had arrived too late. Kitana and her allies from Earthrealm had been slain in an epic battle against the Deadly Alliance."
However even if that first sentence was not there the next part of her bio would still say they were dead:
"As I knelt beside her, a menacing, dragon-like creature strode across the bridge to the palace. I leapt out of sight and watched as he resurrected the dead and ordered them to regroup near the Living Forest."
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Johnny Cage's MK3 "death" is pretty confusing. MKDA gives us the "it was just crappy movie writing" plot, and John Vogel (who's now the main guy in charge of the storyline) decided for whatever reason to simply retcon the entire death, return to Heaven and MK4 ressurection.
Like it or not, it looks as if Johnny survived MK3, and just fought that and MK4/G as normal. Hopefully Vogel will come up with an at least half convincing plotline for what Johnny was up to during the invasion when he was supposedly dead. He didin't show up until MKT, and I hardly see him making a movie between the attack on Earth and big final battle.
It's a shame, since they could have done interesting things with a deadand ressurected Johnny Cage. Perhaps death would have corrupted his soul enough to enter the Netherrealm for MKD and help fight Onaga.
Like it or not, it looks as if Johnny survived MK3, and just fought that and MK4/G as normal. Hopefully Vogel will come up with an at least half convincing plotline for what Johnny was up to during the invasion when he was supposedly dead. He didin't show up until MKT, and I hardly see him making a movie between the attack on Earth and big final battle.
It's a shame, since they could have done interesting things with a deadand ressurected Johnny Cage. Perhaps death would have corrupted his soul enough to enter the Netherrealm for MKD and help fight Onaga.


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Its a good theory, however I will only buy it if they explain (perhaps in another konquest)
A) Saying straight out that Johnny Cage never died in MK3 and was resurrected in MK4
B) Briefly state what he has been up to since Mk3 and Mk4.
I just cant buy it because they really didnt need to explain him coming back again since he is alive and its already done, TO ME its an inside joke between creators and fans until requirements A and B are met.
A) Saying straight out that Johnny Cage never died in MK3 and was resurrected in MK4
B) Briefly state what he has been up to since Mk3 and Mk4.
I just cant buy it because they really didnt need to explain him coming back again since he is alive and its already done, TO ME its an inside joke between creators and fans until requirements A and B are met.

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XiahouDun84 Wrote:
Jade's bio says they were all dead.
And I don't buy that whole "bad writing" crap. Johnny Cage died and was resurrected. Says so in MK4.
Jade's bio says they were all dead.
And I don't buy that whole "bad writing" crap. Johnny Cage died and was resurrected. Says so in MK4.
I missed that.


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I think it would be "bad writing" if they didn't kill him off and bring him back again. it added flavor to his story because think about it, what has Johnny done in the story? how has he contributed? if he hadn't died, he would just be boring Johnny with no lines that they keep only because he is a good guy.
MK1- here would be the only place he had depth. he came to prove to the world that he isn't just a pretty face. he came to prove he isn't a fake and his stunt man doesn't exist.
MK2- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK3- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK4- "stop Shinnok? sure!"
MKDA- "stop the deadly alliance? sure!"
MKD- "do whatever you ask? sure, Onaga! you've only turned me and my friends into brainless slaves!"
MK7- "stop the one consciousness... thing... of doom? sure!"
PS- why do we keep quoting "bad writing"?
MK1- here would be the only place he had depth. he came to prove to the world that he isn't just a pretty face. he came to prove he isn't a fake and his stunt man doesn't exist.
MK2- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK3- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK4- "stop Shinnok? sure!"
MKDA- "stop the deadly alliance? sure!"
MKD- "do whatever you ask? sure, Onaga! you've only turned me and my friends into brainless slaves!"
MK7- "stop the one consciousness... thing... of doom? sure!"
PS- why do we keep quoting "bad writing"?
Johnny Cage only died once. This is my POV on the story. Shortly before Mortal Kombat 3, Johnny Cage was killed by one of Kahn's Extermination Squads, and he did die. However, he was not allowed into the heavens because of the merger between the Earthrealm, and Outworld blocked his way into the heavens, so he was kind of like in limbo. He was officially dead as he competed in MK Trilogy. When Shao Kahn was defeated, is the first time Johnny Cage went into the heavens to rest in peace. Then, Mortal Kombat 4/Gold rolled around, and Shinnok had escaped from the Netherrealm to try and seize the Earthrealm through the Mortal Kombat tournament. When Shinnok used his powers to resurrect some of his own warriors like Mileena, and Baraka, in turn breaking the rules of MK, Raiden decided to resurrect Johnny Cage to help the Earthrealm cause. This was the first, and only time that Johnny Cage had returned from the dead. When Liu Kang defeated Shinnok, everything in all realms returned to their normal states. Johnny Cage was allowed to live since he risked his place in the heavens to fight alongside his friends, and defend the Earthrealm. MKDA was next, and in this tournament Cage was aiding Bo'Rai Cho in defending against the Tarkatan Warriors. Bo'Rai Cho, and Li Mei were able to escape while others unfortunatly were caught in the explosion. Even though they were supposedlly killed, they in fact were saved by Ermac who later released them to aid in the final battle against Onaga where Ermac himself sensed a greater evil had returned. So in fact, Johnny Cage realy only died one time if you count dieing, going to heaven, and he was only resurrected once if you count the only time he was resurrected to aid Earthrealm in MK4/Gold. That's my POV.
Kano_rulz Wrote:
I think it would be "bad writing" if they didn't kill him off and bring him back again. it added flavor to his story because think about it, what has Johnny done in the story? how has he contributed? if he hadn't died, he would just be boring Johnny with no lines that they keep only because he is a good guy.
MK1- here would be the only place he had depth. he came to prove to the world that he isn't just a pretty face. he came to prove he isn't a fake and his stunt man doesn't exist.
MK2- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK3- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK4- "stop Shinnok? sure!"
MKDA- "stop the deadly alliance? sure!"
MKD- "do whatever you ask? sure, Onaga! you've only turned me and my friends into brainless slaves!"
MK7- "stop the one consciousness... thing... of doom? sure!"
PS- why do we keep quoting "bad writing"?
I think it would be "bad writing" if they didn't kill him off and bring him back again. it added flavor to his story because think about it, what has Johnny done in the story? how has he contributed? if he hadn't died, he would just be boring Johnny with no lines that they keep only because he is a good guy.
MK1- here would be the only place he had depth. he came to prove to the world that he isn't just a pretty face. he came to prove he isn't a fake and his stunt man doesn't exist.
MK2- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK3- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK4- "stop Shinnok? sure!"
MKDA- "stop the deadly alliance? sure!"
MKD- "do whatever you ask? sure, Onaga! you've only turned me and my friends into brainless slaves!"
MK7- "stop the one consciousness... thing... of doom? sure!"
PS- why do we keep quoting "bad writing"?
I don't agree,
MK2 - Johnny Cage had just survived a huge corrupt battle and it changed his whole perspective on life. Johnny Cage returned to his normal life but he relized that there was something else going on in. Johnny Cage felt drawn to it, the Mortal Kombat tournament was a thrill in his life, he loved it. In Mortal Kombat 2 Johnny Cage decided to follow Liu Kang and Kung Lao into Outworld along with Jax. Johnny Cage had more depth in that story aswell, he was not only in there to fight against Shao Kahn. He wanted to return to the fight which he considered a real challenge to him.
MK3 - Johnny Cage died right? I consider Trilogy a part of the story so this is what I think. Johnny Cage already died, but he was not in the heavens. He relized that when Earth returns to normal he will go to the heavens. So Johnny Cage fought in his battles knowing that if they succeded he was going to die. Johnny Cage continued in his cause of fighting alongside his friends to return his home back to its former self before Shao Kahn invaded. Because of Shao Kahn's defeat Eartrealm was free and Johnny Cage's path to heaven was unblocked. So no it was not all about fighting Shao Kahn for him.
MK4 - Johnny Cage was already dead, but in the story Shinnok waged a war on the Elder Gods after he conquered Edenia. The Elder Gods permited Johnny Cage to return to life if he aids in Shinnoks defeat. Johnny Cage wanted to help his friends and also return back to life, so he seeked Raiden to restore his soul and he was back in the flesh ready to fight. Johnny just wanted to be alive once again, but he also had a duty to help his friends.
Okay, I do agree with you however on the Deadly alliance. I had no damn clue on what Johnny Cage's purpose was. It was for another movie idea? After all that shit he went through, all he wanted was to make another movie? Deadly Alliance really confused me in regard to Johnny Cage's true purpose.


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due to bad writing? hes the lead story writer! Cage has died twice. its not even a big deal tho....


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TheProphet, GGs my friend. Give'em Hell.
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Apparently he has not died enough if he is still around. Ditch the loser.


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I, Cleric
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yeah. cage sux soooo much


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i dont think they will ever permantly ditch Cage due to him having one of the biggest fanbases of the MK Chars.


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Grizzle Wrote:
I don't agree,
MK2 - Johnny Cage had just survived a huge corrupt battle and it changed his whole perspective on life. Johnny Cage returned to his normal life but he relized that there was something else going on in. Johnny Cage felt drawn to it, the Mortal Kombat tournament was a thrill in his life, he loved it. In Mortal Kombat 2 Johnny Cage decided to follow Liu Kang and Kung Lao into Outworld along with Jax. Johnny Cage had more depth in that story aswell, he was not only in there to fight against Shao Kahn. He wanted to return to the fight which he considered a real challenge to him.
MK3 - Johnny Cage died right? I consider Trilogy a part of the story so this is what I think. Johnny Cage already died, but he was not in the heavens. He relized that when Earth returns to normal he will go to the heavens. So Johnny Cage fought in his battles knowing that if they succeded he was going to die. Johnny Cage continued in his cause of fighting alongside his friends to return his home back to its former self before Shao Kahn invaded. Because of Shao Kahn's defeat Eartrealm was free and Johnny Cage's path to heaven was unblocked. So no it was not all about fighting Shao Kahn for him.
MK4 - Johnny Cage was already dead, but in the story Shinnok waged a war on the Elder Gods after he conquered Edenia. The Elder Gods permited Johnny Cage to return to life if he aids in Shinnoks defeat. Johnny Cage wanted to help his friends and also return back to life, so he seeked Raiden to restore his soul and he was back in the flesh ready to fight. Johnny just wanted to be alive once again, but he also had a duty to help his friends.
Okay, I do agree with you however on the Deadly alliance. I had no damn clue on what Johnny Cage's purpose was. It was for another movie idea? After all that shit he went through, all he wanted was to make another movie? Deadly Alliance really confused me in regard to Johnny Cage's true purpose.
I was talking about what the story would be like if he DIDN'T die. so MK3 and 4 would be the same as what you wrote for MKDA.Kano_rulz Wrote:
I think it would be "bad writing" if they didn't kill him off and bring him back again. it added flavor to his story because think about it, what has Johnny done in the story? how has he contributed? if he hadn't died, he would just be boring Johnny with no lines that they keep only because he is a good guy.
MK1- here would be the only place he had depth. he came to prove to the world that he isn't just a pretty face. he came to prove he isn't a fake and his stunt man doesn't exist.
MK2- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK3- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK4- "stop Shinnok? sure!"
MKDA- "stop the deadly alliance? sure!"
MKD- "do whatever you ask? sure, Onaga! you've only turned me and my friends into brainless slaves!"
MK7- "stop the one consciousness... thing... of doom? sure!"
PS- why do we keep quoting "bad writing"?
I think it would be "bad writing" if they didn't kill him off and bring him back again. it added flavor to his story because think about it, what has Johnny done in the story? how has he contributed? if he hadn't died, he would just be boring Johnny with no lines that they keep only because he is a good guy.
MK1- here would be the only place he had depth. he came to prove to the world that he isn't just a pretty face. he came to prove he isn't a fake and his stunt man doesn't exist.
MK2- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK3- "stop Shao Kahn? sure!"
MK4- "stop Shinnok? sure!"
MKDA- "stop the deadly alliance? sure!"
MKD- "do whatever you ask? sure, Onaga! you've only turned me and my friends into brainless slaves!"
MK7- "stop the one consciousness... thing... of doom? sure!"
PS- why do we keep quoting "bad writing"?
I don't agree,
MK2 - Johnny Cage had just survived a huge corrupt battle and it changed his whole perspective on life. Johnny Cage returned to his normal life but he relized that there was something else going on in. Johnny Cage felt drawn to it, the Mortal Kombat tournament was a thrill in his life, he loved it. In Mortal Kombat 2 Johnny Cage decided to follow Liu Kang and Kung Lao into Outworld along with Jax. Johnny Cage had more depth in that story aswell, he was not only in there to fight against Shao Kahn. He wanted to return to the fight which he considered a real challenge to him.
MK3 - Johnny Cage died right? I consider Trilogy a part of the story so this is what I think. Johnny Cage already died, but he was not in the heavens. He relized that when Earth returns to normal he will go to the heavens. So Johnny Cage fought in his battles knowing that if they succeded he was going to die. Johnny Cage continued in his cause of fighting alongside his friends to return his home back to its former self before Shao Kahn invaded. Because of Shao Kahn's defeat Eartrealm was free and Johnny Cage's path to heaven was unblocked. So no it was not all about fighting Shao Kahn for him.
MK4 - Johnny Cage was already dead, but in the story Shinnok waged a war on the Elder Gods after he conquered Edenia. The Elder Gods permited Johnny Cage to return to life if he aids in Shinnoks defeat. Johnny Cage wanted to help his friends and also return back to life, so he seeked Raiden to restore his soul and he was back in the flesh ready to fight. Johnny just wanted to be alive once again, but he also had a duty to help his friends.
Okay, I do agree with you however on the Deadly alliance. I had no damn clue on what Johnny Cage's purpose was. It was for another movie idea? After all that shit he went through, all he wanted was to make another movie? Deadly Alliance really confused me in regard to Johnny Cage's true purpose.
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The defence for Johnny Cage. He's my favourite character, and I'll admit that Johnny Cage is really one of those "love him or hate him" guys. While his storyline does need serious work, I think Johnny is needed in the series. As well as consistently being a very good fighter, he's a kind of light relief for the series. But unlike Bo Rai Cho, he can bring the dark tone down just enough, without it going too far, and being painfully unfunny.
Plus unlike a lot of the heroes, he's not some member of a warrior group, been preparing all their lives to fight for Earth, or part of some military force who's job it is to defend the world. Johnny is a relatively normal guy who entered a fighting contest, and ended up getting caught in the middle of the struggle between good and evil. I'll admit that they need to build on this, rather than always have him go away making movies. MK would be a poorer place if he were to be dropped for good, imo. This "normal guy just caught up in it all" thing is also a big reason I like Stryker too. Plus they need to explain, if Vogel sticks to the "he didn't die" rewrite WHAT exactly Johnny Cage was up to during the time he was supposedly deceased.
Plus unlike a lot of the heroes, he's not some member of a warrior group, been preparing all their lives to fight for Earth, or part of some military force who's job it is to defend the world. Johnny is a relatively normal guy who entered a fighting contest, and ended up getting caught in the middle of the struggle between good and evil. I'll admit that they need to build on this, rather than always have him go away making movies. MK would be a poorer place if he were to be dropped for good, imo. This "normal guy just caught up in it all" thing is also a big reason I like Stryker too. Plus they need to explain, if Vogel sticks to the "he didn't die" rewrite WHAT exactly Johnny Cage was up to during the time he was supposedly deceased.
100 % agreed.
Mk1: He did not die.
Mk2: He did not die.
Mk3: He died according to the storyline. BUT Vogel corrected this in MKDA saying he never died, it was only part of a movie production. They never wanted to kill Johnny since he is one of their fave mk originals, it was all because of legal problems.
Also take not that his ending never happened so he never returned to the heavens.
Mk4: He returns with a bio that follows his death in Mk3, but remember Vogel changed this. Besides, in the original comic book (cannon because Tobias wrote it) Johnny appears and finds Sonya and it is left clear that he never died or that he was resurrected.
Mk5: His story was re-written and he technically never died, it was just a movie. Later this story will contradict the events of his death that happened in Mk3-Mk4.
MkD: He PROBABLY died.
We dont know for sure. Look at MKDA kahn and Goro, they died, yet they are still alive. Same thing could had happened to him and the others that "died".
Johnny Cage has technically never died, and if he did die in MKD, that would be his first time.
Vogel really needs to explain Johnny Cages story, and change it drastically so we can have a deep evolution of his character. Johnny Cage has potential, he is one of the MAIN original characters from Mk.
He only needs a story upgrade, like many others need that too.
Mk1: He did not die.
Mk2: He did not die.
Mk3: He died according to the storyline. BUT Vogel corrected this in MKDA saying he never died, it was only part of a movie production. They never wanted to kill Johnny since he is one of their fave mk originals, it was all because of legal problems.
Also take not that his ending never happened so he never returned to the heavens.
Mk4: He returns with a bio that follows his death in Mk3, but remember Vogel changed this. Besides, in the original comic book (cannon because Tobias wrote it) Johnny appears and finds Sonya and it is left clear that he never died or that he was resurrected.
Mk5: His story was re-written and he technically never died, it was just a movie. Later this story will contradict the events of his death that happened in Mk3-Mk4.
MkD: He PROBABLY died.
We dont know for sure. Look at MKDA kahn and Goro, they died, yet they are still alive. Same thing could had happened to him and the others that "died".
Johnny Cage has technically never died, and if he did die in MKD, that would be his first time.
Vogel really needs to explain Johnny Cages story, and change it drastically so we can have a deep evolution of his character. Johnny Cage has potential, he is one of the MAIN original characters from Mk.
He only needs a story upgrade, like many others need that too.
queve Wrote:
100 % agreed.
Mk1: He did not die.
Mk2: He did not die.
Mk3: He �died� according to the storyline. BUT Vogel corrected this in MKDA saying he never died, it was only part of a movie production. They never wanted to kill Johnny since he is one of their fave mk originals, it was all because of legal problems.
Also take not that his ending never happened so he never returned to the heavens.
Mk4: He returns with a bio that follows his �death� in Mk3, but remember Vogel changed this. Besides, in the original comic book (cannon because Tobias wrote it) Johnny appears and finds Sonya and it is left clear that he never died or that he was resurrected.
Mk5: His story was re-written and he technically never died, it was just a movie. Later this story will contradict the events of his death that happened in Mk3-Mk4.
MkD: He PROBABLY died.
We dont know for sure. Look at MKDA kahn and Goro, they �died�, yet they are still alive. Same thing could had happened to him and the others that "died".
Johnny Cage has technically never died, and if he did die in MKD, that would be his first time.
Vogel really needs to explain Johnny Cage�s story, and change it drastically so we can have a deep evolution of his character. Johnny Cage has potential, he is one of the MAIN original characters from Mk.
He only needs a story upgrade, like many others need that too.
100 % agreed.
Mk1: He did not die.
Mk2: He did not die.
Mk3: He �died� according to the storyline. BUT Vogel corrected this in MKDA saying he never died, it was only part of a movie production. They never wanted to kill Johnny since he is one of their fave mk originals, it was all because of legal problems.
Also take not that his ending never happened so he never returned to the heavens.
Mk4: He returns with a bio that follows his �death� in Mk3, but remember Vogel changed this. Besides, in the original comic book (cannon because Tobias wrote it) Johnny appears and finds Sonya and it is left clear that he never died or that he was resurrected.
Mk5: His story was re-written and he technically never died, it was just a movie. Later this story will contradict the events of his death that happened in Mk3-Mk4.
MkD: He PROBABLY died.
We dont know for sure. Look at MKDA kahn and Goro, they �died�, yet they are still alive. Same thing could had happened to him and the others that "died".
Johnny Cage has technically never died, and if he did die in MKD, that would be his first time.
Vogel really needs to explain Johnny Cage�s story, and change it drastically so we can have a deep evolution of his character. Johnny Cage has potential, he is one of the MAIN original characters from Mk.
He only needs a story upgrade, like many others need that too.
Thanks for clearing all that mumbo jumbo for me.


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I, Cleric
0
pretty sure they died. how else would they become evil. onaga cant control beings unless they're dead + its cooler for the goody-goody 5 to finally die seeing as half of them havabsolutely no reason whatsoever to kompete.
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