though, charging a whole ten dollars for the mk 1 with deception, is robbery. now i can see the complaining there. thats ten dollars for one. u only pay a dollar a game on mat2. so i can see that. i agree with complaing there. especially since it shoud definately had no probs emulating, i can see 2, more so 3, but 1? 10 bucks? ouch

NO
we should NOT quit "crying"
if you just comply with anything they give you then they're going to get the impression you'll accept halfassed shit

yeah it's a great value but there is no reason to quit complaining about the nitpicks

Thank goodness for Mame.

Wow. Yet another person that complains about people complaining. It never ceases to amaze me how many fucking people do this.

You know, in the thread I made about SF vs MAT, I pretty much said that you knew what you were talking about when it came to system hardware. After throwing the "their not gonna work hard for a 20 dollar value game. would u? say u get paid big dollars for making a next gen game, then they want you to throw together a hits list, and they pay you crap. take time and get it right? or get it over with to move on to the next big payoff? hmmm....." comment makes me think that you, in all actuality, don't know what the hell you're talking about.

First off, what relevance does that have that the game only cost $20. Does that mean we have to settle for a shitty game because it's not as much as most brand new games are? That doesn't make any fuckin sense whatsoever.

And how the hell do you know that the programmers get paid like crap for making this game, or any other $20 game for that matter. And if they did, how the hell do you know that that's their attitude on shit.

You need to quit pulling stuff out of your ass bro.

Just as some people are inlove with the sound of their own voice, some people are inlove with reading their own posts.



Matt

i still beleive the system hardware is to blame. i just made this post to reel in some of the people who won't stop nagging about this, and basically, tell them what they want to hear so as to stop this madness perhaps. about the game designers pay check, my cousin who lives in texas works for the williams branch, the guys that did the home versions of mk3 back in the day. he said that they get paid according to the design effort needed . crappy 2d game they get certain amount cause its less work than a huge 3d game with millions of different angles and pieces to paint, and all the detail, lot mork work, bigger pay day. though the small pay is good, so, who knows, but if it wasn't for midway, then we would'nt have these games to argue about in the first place.

the comment above was also directed at mk 1 disc with deception. that i believe was a joke. ten bucks for one poorly emulated game? i can't bitch about 20, but i can bitch about ten dollars for one damn game for a whole disc. a whole disc just for the history and kards, and mk 1. wasted disc, and a wasted ten bucks. money better spent on mat2, save ten, put ten up, get mat2. at least you get 20 games, instead of 1 game for ten that didnt turn out right

in the other post, i was under the impression we were just talking about mat2, and when you mentioned mk1, i agreed with you and started to cover those grounds in this post. when i thought we were just discussing mat2, is when i was talking about the system hardware. mk 1, i say they slacked off, probably just pulling the unfinshed version from mat2 and slapping it on a seperate disc, forgetting maybe they should check it over. " nah it will run fine guys" . so they say. mk 2 i think turned out decent, the best out of all of them thats for sure. and i have seen time and time again, mk 3 on mame with full sound, either runs choppy, or runs fine but sound is so distorted its hard to even listen to. way worse than mat2. but a good comp, and that prob is solved. my last comp ran it like crap, my new one i just got recently, runs them great. if a ps2 and xbox is as powerful as today's pc, then why are they not 600 to 1000 dollars? one reason, they are not as powerful. remember, if they would have ported instead of emulated, it would have turned out "arcade perfect"

There is a new version of mame which runs UMK3 without the sound garbling. There is also an old version as well, but they changed it because the intent of mame is to faithfully emulate the hardware of games, not to make them run like they do in the arcade by any means necessary. There is a difference.

The reason the sound is garbled is because it's running at a frequency that does not match the monitor refresh rate. If you were to change the monitor refresh rate to match (which can be dangerous to your monitor, DO NOT DO IT), it wouldn't garble at all. This is what makes the Mame program itself not illegal when it comes to games that fall under the category as "not readily available" or "no longer make profit for the owners" and in turn are preserved by emulation.

There will be a point when there are no more working Pac Man arcade machines, but after that, the game will always be on someone's computer somewhere. Most games however are not, and probably will never fall into this category, I don't even know if PacMan does.

With MAT2, they didn't have to follow that because they can do whatever the Hell they want. They could have emulated through any method they so desired, and worked with the original software, and meddled around until they got it right. Part of it I have to say is due to deadlines, but regardless, they hold all the cards, they create all the possibilities.

Your question about why console systems don't cost $600 dollars if they are as powerful as PCs:

There's a lot I don't think you fully understand because you said "today's PCs" and we never said that. Our example is that of a computer which would cost under $200 now without any software or a monitor. When PS2 came out it was what, $300? and approximately the same equivelanet processor speed as a 700 mhz PC, with 32 megs of ram, and a DVD player. When it came out, the average PC was up to 1.4 ghz, and a 700 mhz PC, with 32 megs of ram, and a DVD player, might cost about $500 at the time, including with this, various types of expensive software which make the difference in price tag.

Also, video game consoles are geared towards a younger fan base . Also remember, the price of the PS2 has absolutely nothing to do with it's actual hardware, but what it can do, for how many people, on how many levels, for how long. A PC's average life span is far less than a World Wide video game console.

Why do you think it took so long for current PCs to emulate DreamCast? Optimization issues. In a few months, a crack team of programmers, for little or no money, has emulated DreamCast quite well, with almost no access to specific information on the hardware. The MAT2 Dev team had full access that the information about the hardware of the systems in question, and also had access to superior hardware and software compared to that of anything Midway used to program the original games.

DC was I think a 200 mhz risc processor, which is a lot more powerful pound for pound than a Pentium. Yet, DreamCast cannot run SNES games at full speed, when SNES was 3.57 mhz. It's all very confusing I know, but watch out, it gets more confusing.

GameCube is 485 mhz IBM Power PC

PS2 uses "The Emotion Engine" at 300 mhz, again, far more powerful when it comes to FLOPS, which is more important than the actual number infront of the mhz.

X-box is an Intel 733 mhz. =)

I think the total processor speed of UMK3 winds up being like 16 or 17 mhz.

So if UMK3 can run full speed with sound, on a 733 mhz PC, bogged with software and useless programs taking up ram, unoptimized, and factor age of hardware in there too, imagine if DreemerNJ could modify Mame at it's core programming to run UMK3 on his computer specifically? Well that's what the Digital Eclipse TEAM was supposed to do. They could have hired a Mame Dev team to do it and it would have come out right.

So you're answer again, yes it is possible to emulate the higher end MK games with full quality sound, and no slowdown, or graphics glitches, on all platforms, by mathematics alone.

I tried to answer a lot of the questions with facts, numbers, etc, I hope there is some better understanding now.

What kind of computer would I need to perfectly run an emulated version of MK1-4?

Minimum requirements right now seem to be, and it's very specific, DreemerNJ's P3 733 mhz, but I would go for a 1 ghz. You also need a decent video card, but anything available right now that is cheap is good enough.

If there were an optimized emulator to run just the MK games, aside from MK mame, which is just the MK mame code ripped out, for a specific computer, the requirements would drop dramatically.

Unfortunately no one is motivated enough to do so.

On my old P3 550, I can't run some of the Capcom vs games at full speed at all, in Mame. But in Final Burn, another, much smaller, more precise emulator, I can run all the Capcom CPS2 high end games, on that PC, without any frame skip at all. Imagine that? And I think MvC is actually similar requirements to that of UMK3, it's just that there's been more focus on emulating CPS2 than the Wolf Unit.

Matt

However Midway could have not release MK1-2-3 for PS2 , X-box and Gamecube AT ALL.

They release those game for the average MK player, who doesn't have MAME and have not played Mortal Kombat for 8 years. Those people are willing to pay 20$ for 20 games, they won't complaint that much about Smoke not being available or about the music, they just want to play the game for nostalgia. However I think that it is a slap in the face for the serious MK fans, the problem I think is that Midway DOESN'T realize that there is a market for serious MK fans who cares about those details and they would have wanted a few extras as well.

This is why petitions exist

but your petitions never get answered. doesnt that tell you tthat there must not be enough to sway a good vote? cause they never seem to care. only about things like in deception, such as 2 fatalities a charecter, old school kombat zones, pit fatalities, etc but as far as old games, i dont think they listen well.

There is no way to justify that what was done was right. If you think it was OK for them to release anything less than perfect, you're a sucker. $20 or not, someone now has $20 of your money they don't deserve.

I would pay $20 just for an arcade perfect UMK3 alone, maybe include netplay. But I wouldn't pay a penny if there were glaring mistakes, like the ones in MAT2 specifically.

I was told by a friend from work that the gameplay for MK2 doesn't feel arcade perfect either. I haven't played it, but can anyone verify it? I'm going to probably have him bring it over to check out what he means anyway, but I've seen people say it plays just like the arcade, however I'd take his word over anyone on this site except DreemerNJ and Konqrr in all honesty when it comes to the super fine details of gameplay.

Matt

Is it true that in mat2 Sheeva and the robots bleed red?

they bled red in arcade mk3. not umk but just mk3. only in domestic releases was it fixed. try it on mame, you'll see that all versions do it somehow. unless its the domestic rom set. besides, they do deserve my money, cause i have all three pcb's in my dedicated mk3 cabinet, and i love mat2 still. so they deserve it, cause i wanted to spend it. sorry that i have better things in life other than to whine piss and moan about this.

Some people paid 60$ back in the day for a far then perfect version of MK3 for Genesis... like it or not, the version of the game they gave us on PS2 and X-box are the best conversation on any platform yet.

There is NO loading time, something that the PSX version had, so I'm happy about that.

However I didn't bought MAT2, I bought the Kollector edition, because I like MK1 and I'm planning to buy MAT2 when they will lower the price a bit. Because I've got most of those games(except Primal Rage on MAME who have no sound ).

Spending $60 on SNES MK3 is a timeline related spending concept, and that's just how much SNES games went for. There were plenty of games that weren't worth $60, namely, all of them. In 1996, you weren't going to get an arcade perfect home system version of MK3 because it was in fact impossible. However, the PC version of MK3 is very close to the arcade, as I just played it the other day to remind myself. Today it is a different story. You can play arcade perfect MK1, MK2, and MK3 on your PS2, or X-box, or Gamecube, just not from MAT2.

And about there being more things to do than come to mkonline to piss and moan about how badly a game is that I didn't even buy, you have spent an unrealistic amount of time trying to refute everything people say on here, and are accomplishing nothing. In fact, you have even replied to your own posts up to 2 times without there being a post from anyone else inbetween.



Matt

yeah i posted a few on my own, cause there was more i wanted to say that didn't go into the first post. wow your smart bro. maybe thats why you got a stick up your ass cause your a damn nerd.

Gameplay does feel a bit off. Seems too fast. Controls don't feel as tight either.

Ok for all of you who are complaining about MAT2 I have this to say. FIRST OFF.. NONE OF YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO COMPLAIN IF YOU HOLD IN YOUR PC RIGHT NOW MK 1 2 OR 3 because right there your in violation of a illegal action. And you hacked or stole the software off of some site. You have no right to even kinda call yourself a MK HARDCORE FAN BECAUSE RIGHT THERE YOUR GOING AGAINST EVERYTHING Midway stands for. Midway pays lots of people lots of money to get rid of such sites so really you have no say in saying how they should have made the game better when your contributing to one of the many problems midway as a company has to deal with. Second HOW MUCH DID YOU SPEND ON MAT2 20 DOLLARS ok So you spent 20 and some change. Do you have any idea how much the real arcade games go for lets not say 100 lets not even say 200 lets try in the 1000’s OK. So when midway release a game for 1 dollar and says its arcade perfect but your only getting it for a dollar you didn’t get lied to you just got what you paid for. And third I would like to thank anyone who in anyway has nothing to do with any of the complaints in this discussion because those of you who read this and had nothing to say you get my drift and understand what's going on. IT WAS THE BEST 20 DOLLARS I SPENT ALL YEAR I HONESTLY BELIEVE AND I GIVE A GREAT THANKS TO MIDWAY FOR THERE TIME AND EFFORT.

thank you. someone who is actually level headed on this topic. it's apparent who's the nerds and who's the sensible people. well, nerds are high in numbers as we see here. running down all of us greatful to midway for their games.

I own over 50 Mortal Kombat games. I've spent thousands of dollars on their products. So I think I've been plenty "grateful" to Midway.

The low price isn't an isssue. Even if it was free it would still have sound problems.

These two guys sound like the unofficial Wendy's spokesman, only for Midway.

Midway should stop spending money closing sites, and start spending money on better programmers/game testers. They aren't losing money through emulation, in fact, without it, they never would have made MAT2.

There's nothing you can do to change people's minds.

Once again, I am still boycotting MAT2.

Case closed.