I agree with this list except for a few things. Why is Li Mei better than Kitana? Why did Kung Lao get put down so many spots, and why is Nitara so high now.

And WHY is Mavado place TEN?

mavado is top 10 cuz of hookswoard mixups. very hard to defend against. mavado is SUPER cheap if played right. Kung Lao is rated lower because he is a 1 button character. 1. thats all he has, mantis 1. pressure with jabs in attempt to land a branch is all he can do and there r just other characters with fast jabs who jast have more thus kung lao drops. nitara is ranked higher because of FJP. fast jabs that unlike her leopard stance can be made to track, good damage even with no power-up and ridiculious damage with it, and quick switch to kama mixups. if u play nitara in FJP she is actually a decent character.

Wow... I didn't know Kano was THAT low on any tier list...

Why are Kano and Cage so low?

Well, I agree mostly with 1-7... I disagree with 8 on, but thats just my opinion and I won't argue with you about it. I only feel that some of those characters if played right can be very effective! Especially Kitana! I already know that comment will upset you but you'd see it's the truth if you actually play her... cuz you don't.

frost is top 10 only if u r playing with the infinite. without the infinite she is low tier.

Agreed! She would be somewhat better if you could side-track in her first style. I hate everytime I try to jab at someone and she does that overhead smash...

I'm starting to agree with the mids in your list a little bit. it's very close to me for some characters. I think it's a toss up between some of the mid to low tier chars.

Why is Sub-Zero mid-low? I admit that he's not the best character, and I agree with the top ten portion of the list, but he has the ability to freeze an opponent, power-up, and even impale them with his weapon. Also, his attacks in his Dragon style allow him some distance (Back+4 and I think Up+2 send his opponent accross the stage) to set up the Neijin or let the imaple affects weaken the player.

_NE0_ Wrote: I think u guys will find some of the character placings in this revised list very intresting. i actually ment to post this a few months ago but never got around to it. 1.Scorpion 2.Bo' Rai Cho 3.Reptile 4.Drahmin 5.Sonya 6.Hsu Hao 7.Shang Tsung 8.Frost 9.Jax 10.Mavado 11.Quan Chi 12.Kenshi 13.Raiden 14.Nitara 15.Mokap 16.Kung Lao 17.Sub Zero 18.Johnny Cage 19.Kano 20.Blaze 21.Li Mei 22.Kitana 23.Cyrax

Aye,

Just a few questions:

* Frost doesn't have the infinite in PAL and you have to be lucky to land Bo's infinite in the PAL version (the third hit of his style branch, starting from drunken fist, usually doesn't land). What difference does that make; or rather: where would this put them in the tier list? Frost I reckon between 17 and 20 but for Bo' I think it wouldn't make much of a difference. What do you (and the other expert players) think?

* Mavado is one of my favourite characters I like to play with, but are you serious that hookswords 3 alone justify his 10th spot? Quan Chi has, imo, more confusing mind games with his broadswords and if any hooksword move is blocked, you're game. However, it's still interesting to see Mavado being a bit redeemed.

* What puts Drahmin above Sonya? Although Drahmin is more devastating, Sonya is quicker and more responsive (+ good mix ups, especially in tae kwon do). I've found Sonya to be more adaptable to various situations, whereas Drahmin usually seems to depend on the same patterns.

* What puts Cage above Kano? Kano has a reversal and a power-up, which I consider to be a pretty fortunate combination. Cage doesn't have much going for him, except some dirty low moves and a good combo or two in jeet kune do.

Cheers!
VQ

Kano revolves around set ups. Without them he cannot land more than 25% damage max. To get more than 25% he has to risk mixing up or reversing, both very unsafe things. No matter what with Cage you are guaranteed atleast 33%. Cage is just safer with good jabs in JKD and lows JUST as safe as Kano. He also Has Karate great because of f+2 which comes out fast, does good damage, is hard to punish AND launches. Nunchaku is also OK. Kano doesnt really have anything on Cage. Cage is like a mini Sub-Zero.

edited teh list. mavado is placed higher.

Versatile Wrote: Kano revolves around set ups. Without them he cannot land more than 25% damage max. To get more than 25% he has to risk mixing up or reversing, both very unsafe things. No matter what with Cage you are guaranteed atleast 33%. Cage is just safer with good jabs in JKD and lows JUST as safe as Kano. He also Has Karate great because of f+2 which comes out fast, does good damage, is hard to punish AND launches. Nunchaku is also OK. Kano doesnt really have anything on Cage. Cage is like a mini Sub-Zero.

Okay, I see your point. Still, with his power-up Kano can bring about more than 50% damage, which Cage never can. I agree that Cage is safer, however, although most of his moves in karate are never safe (in that respect he is indeed much like Sub-Zero, whose main power is concentrated in dragon). Well, they are only one place away on the tier list, for me the difference is pretty minimal.

@ _Ne0_: If you have some time, would you care to answer my other questions? Also, now you've got me really curious as to why Mavado is even better than Shang Tsung? Both of them belong to my best fighters but victories with Tsung always come much, much easier.

Cheers,
Q

An explanation of his bump would be nice...

_NE0_ Wrote: edited teh list. mavado is placed higher.

Is this turning into a joke, or are you maybe a little confused?

Seriously... You want Movado at #7...

You only play him in hookswords and use 3. Yeah doing that one attack 10 times in a row is an ok set-up for his full combo in HS, but I think either you need to explain a little more and answer these people's questions, or re-think your priorities for this list.

I thought a tier list was who is the best fighter by their abilitles. Hence why BRC is #2, Drunken Fist and doesn't even need his infinate for this spot... And Reptile at #3. They are there (unless I'm wrong) because they can fight!

I do have my own reasons to believe Movado is not a bad fighter, but he's not #7. He's too slow and will take more damage than a lot of other characters. Well, that is unless you cheese someone to death with HS-3, or is that the way this game should be played?

mavado has fast jabs, 1,1,b+2 sets up for hookswoards and yes mr s hookswoards is cheap and VERY hard to stop. mavado played right(SUPER FUCKIN CHEAP) is too good. 3 does 15%, is super fast, starts low, tracks, is safe if u bd, and sets up when it hits. whne i played JOP with mav vs drahmin he couldnt beat mavado at all. lost almost 20 straight. mavado is too good(CHEAP)

Well if you're gonna go there.... Why the hell is Li Mei 21? She is cheaper than a lot of the higher listed!

Seriously! You can 4,4,BDC up 4,4,BDC (insert other combo) all day! She's fast, has good reach with that and has dash cancels. She's also got the basic set up attacks. What more could you want?!?

So, really...

Is this a tier list based on the balance of a fighter or who's cheaper modge-podge?

even with limei 44 bdc she still gets raped so no she is not any higher. mavado is cheap but he can win. characters like li mei r not cheap and they lose.

I dunno Cheapness doesn't work forever and when playing in weapon mode you take a lot more damage a few mistakes and you could find yourself dead. Of course you could be right...but I've never seen Mavado own a pro Drahmin.

_NE0_ Wrote: mavado has fast jabs, 1,1,b+2 sets up for hookswoards and yes mr s hookswoards is cheap and VERY hard to stop. mavado played right(SUPER FUCKIN CHEAP) is too good. 3 does 15%, is super fast, starts low, tracks, is safe if u bd, and sets up when it hits. whne i played JOP with mav vs drahmin he couldnt beat mavado at all. lost almost 20 straight. mavado is too good(CHEAP)

1,1,b+2 is very dangerous to use, even when 1,1 is blocked it's still likely you're going to get hurt. And when hookswords 3 is blocked, you're game, as I said. Mavado vs Drahmin is a good match up for Mavado, but change it to Mavado vs Jax or Quan Chi and things may end less fortunate...

Oh and would you plz look at my earlier questions. Thanks ;).

Cheers,
Q

VQ,

As you said 1,1,b+2 and 3 (in HS) are both punishable! True... But they are back-dash-cancelable.

This does make the moves safer! Just do a back dash immediately after hitting 1,1 or after 3 in Hookswords. You'll be suprised if you didn't know of this.

This also opens up opportunities for a character to in a way cancel their branch wether it's being blocked or not.

Unless you are playing against Bill (cuz he counters just about every branch he blocks after 2 hits), you can cancel out of most branches after a certain move. This is true mostly after jabs.

For example: Reptile
1,3,4,cs,1,1,bb
instead of going through the entire string combo, just back dash out of it then attack quickly with 1,1,etc or b+3 or reversal.

drahmin is better then sonya because he has decent mixups, good power-up setups, high damage, a full screen projectile, an unblockable pound that is great for punishing moves from far and at times can be made to be inescapeable,etc... sonya has 3 moves to use if u want to win. 3, b+3, and an occasional b+4,cs. u can also zone with the kiss and use the d+3 roll here and there to punish some wiffs that recover fast and she has a reversal which is also good at times. lack of a full screen projectile and safe damaging moves really hurts her overall. also, in tkd, its hard to interrupt cuz her moves arent all that fast in that stance. Drahmin can do damage fast but is also good defencivly and can maintain a certain level of safeness. sonya kind of has to dink and dunk u to death with moves that do ok damage but dont equal the damage she takes if they're blocked

Greetings,

Thanks for the answers MKL and Mr S.

I know what bdc is and I can do it but to me it's a bit like the hypertaunt; I sometimes tend to forget it :s. An additional reason why I usually don't need it, is because my reaction time in the "European scene" is one of the shortest. But I should get round to using bdc more often. Thanks for the replies again ;).

VQ