I know, that why those are in no order and my number 1 problem with MKD is the Fighting engine and Gameplay. I want them to focus on gameplay and replay value first until they perfect it, but I believe that those other 4 factors are important to bringing back the dark mood MK use to have.

i understand the whole Nether Realm Hell concept but still to me if they die they should stay dead and not return

No... you aren't understanding. All endings in Mortal Kombat games are "What if" endings, meaning the character would have had to won for it to occur (though there are plenty of exceptions to that)... meaning the majority of endings do not happen. As for Deception's endings, none have been confirmed to have happened yet.
Sub-Zero never died. Kano never died. Johnny Cage never died (the story was retconned in MK:DA).

Why is everyone so pissed on MKD? The games great and even if it kinda sucks in some ways (such as dumb new characters and tons of other stuff), this only means that Midway is (or should be) aware of this and will try to make it better till the next MK game.
As for dead characters; why is everyone mad of MK characters returning from the dead? Most of them never died, but they were ASSUMED dead because of some endings which were only "What if" endings. Besides, whenever Midway brings back a character to life, it's (more or less) well explained (for example Liu Kang --> Shang Tsung died) . And just because you don't like a character that returns from the dead, doesn't mean that they should stay dead; after all, there's surely someone else out there who would love to see the character return in a future Mk game.
Regarding mini games, I think they're fun, and they aren't that great, but hey, it's a MINI game!

1. Gameplay. I want infinites removed, cheese possibilities severely limited, and glitches sorted out.
2. Konquest needs an overhaul, they should have kept it the way it was in MKDA.
3. Practise mode should be better, with more options.
4. A way is needed to prevent cheaters from playing online.
5. Storyline could have been much better.
VQ

Johnny Cage has died only once and that was with his battle against the Deadly Alliance.
As for Kano, I think he might've been killed by Mavado. I'm pretty sure Mavado's ending happened. Then again, Kano could pull a Kabal or something or maybe there'll be some retconning.

Wow, you guys are all pissed off about this new Mortal Kombat game.
In my opinion, we should be happy that we got a new MK game so soon in the first place. Yeh, it is a rehash of MK:Deadly Alliance but is that a bad thing? More characters, more graphics, more blood...what more could you ask for?

Better gameplay with a better fighting engine. I would rather have waited for them to improve these aspects of the game than get a rehashed MKDA sooner.

same here

Yeah, me too. They should work on the fighting system first and make sure it's well done before they can do anything else. That's how they should do it for MK7 as well as future MK games.

Let me get this right MKWarrior_05. You're saying that, as long as it's Mortal Kombat, we should be happy, and accept it whatever the end result? So any old shit the team decide to give us, we should be grateful for because it's MK, and we must all be obedient little fanboys/girls?
I don't accept that theory. If we all went around praising everything Midway give us regardless of whether it's any good or not, the series will die. Mortal Kombat came very close to death in the late 90's/early 00's, and I don't think the series can survive another big fall like that.
I actually far prefer MKDA to MKD, and not only because of things like the characters. OK, MKDA has it's negatives, but you can see that a lot of time and effort went into making something big, something to bring the series back into the limelight. The whole gameplay system was reworked to finally try and make MK something that could compete with other beat em ups. It succeeded, and despite it's faults, it was good, and we all thought that they'd build on that to make the next MK a classic.
Except it didn't happen that way. Half arsed gameplay with far too much cheapness, rubbish new character designs that most members of this board can do better in their sleep, and Konquest, oh God, Konquest. A lot of the work on MKD was spent on a boring, nonsensical side game, when what we wanted was a good beat em up.
I hope MK7 does not try anything like this again, and that the beat em ups and adventure games are kept seperate. That way, we should (hopefully) get two good games, rather than two crappy modes in one game.

Yeh, I guess you are right on that point.

I don't know, I really enjoyed Kongquest mode and Puzzle Mode in the game.
Anyway, Shaolin Monks is coming soon so I hope that would at least quell the tension just a bit.

i think that a lot of members in the community can come up with a better idea for the engine and designs. and yes, hopefully they won't scrap the system but make it 100 times better. and yes beat em ups adventure games should be kept separate or you get a liquidated core engine that makes really strange things happen and an adventure game that could have been better. konquest could make a good adventure game if a)they made graphics better b)have a decent action adventure game engine. however that should be ripped into a standalone product instead of messing with the core gameplay

Thats the thing though. People say it's almost no lag but in reality there is lots of lag. Due to the improper use of frame advantage this actually works towards making it better online than offline but it's still FAR from no lag. It's like the doau fanboys who say it's virtually lag free. Yet a non fanboy who was very good at the game goes online plays it and notices that difference that lag makes in seconds. Suddenly combo's that are unsafe offline are 100% safe online. That makes a big difference in gameplay.

5. is true of any fighting game. Two top SC 2 players were know for exclusively playing one character, Several top tekken players in the past have been known to only play one or 2 characters. I was known for king and lei on tekken 3 and lei/bruce exclusive on tag. just because you don't like it they do. I didn't like playing any other characters on tag so I played lie/bruce game after game over and over and lot of people hated it because I was much better at the game than they were because of that.

I had to laugh at this.
The games great and even if it kinda sucks in some ways (such as dumb new characters and tons of other stuff), this only means that Midway is (or should be) aware of this and will try to make it better till the next MK game.

K first off how can a game be great if tons of things are wrong? Thats one of them thar ox morons thingies. The rest is a tad humorous as well. You see quite a few things that are wrong with deception were either wrong with DA or wrong with previous mk's. So they should be aware of it yet they still stuck it in and people got stuck with a sub par, even for mk, game.
As for dead characters coming back. Well first everybody says how great the MK story is and always uses that to argue it's a good game but there are inconsistancies and that makes it, well, lose it's effectiveness as a positive. When you keep having people come back it gets old or retconning things to say it didn't happen well blah to that. Now we can look at tekken 5. In the beginning rave says heihachi mishima is dead and as he does that the words appear on the screen. Some got upset over this and tried to say namco was selling out but raven saying it doesn't make it true he didnt confirm it yet people still were upset. These are fighting games and people take the story too seriously.

So if midway puts out a bag full of shit next week with mortal kombat stamped on it you'd be fine with that right cuz like well they came out with a new mk so fast. Granted you can't actually play it cuz, well, it's a bag of shit but hey we should be thankful we paid $50 for a bag of shit right cuz it had MK stamped on it.
It is a rehash of DA but it was made worse. Aspects of DA that were fine were removed and that only served to make the game much much much much much much worse and DA wasn't even a viable competitive game anyway. More characters, more graphics, more blood, and now with LESS GAMEPLAY.
So personally I'd rather they never released another mk again instead of releasing deception. It did nothing for the series it was literally worse than the previous game and problems in the previous game that were known were included in this one.
5. konquest-seriously who's idea was it to create an action/adventure/rpg mode that lacked action, adventure and rpg elements? Not to mention it was required to unlock things. Take a cue from tekken5. Nothing from devil within can't be gained outside of devil within. If you want to play it go for if you don't you don't have to.
4. engine-basicly the things I didn't cover. Glitches, universal tracking, guaranteed throw combos, glitch combo's off throws etc..
3.move properties-Well even with proper frame use you still don't have a reason to use most moves. Other games combat this with move properties. Moves that avoid high attacks or low attacks moves that cause a stun of some kind some moves. and of course counterhits fit into this as well. A reason to use one move over another other than what dial a combo it starts.
2.emphasis on 50/50 -The lack of wakeup is a huge thing in the game. Even adding simple wakeup attacks would change it in a positive way, it may not be good still but it'd be closer to playable. Throw escapes would go in with this too. No throw escapes is archaic anyway even SF had tech hits in super turbo and now has full throw escapes. A lack of throw escapes encourages a 50/50 game. A variety of throws should be added in along with the escapes however otherwise throws become near useless. No copout throw blocking either thats just stupid in a 3d fighter. Along with this we have the animation cuz thats got quite a bit to do with frames. Moves have animations that are too fast quite often in mk. It encourages the 50/50 game because it's harder to reaction block.
1.Frame use-Every fighting game uses frames, even MK. However no game makes this poor a use. There is absurd risk vs reward on most moves. You block a jab and you're at -30-60 frames. This limits your move selection drastically. Why use a move that gives your opponent a free combo if it's blocked. Along with this we have the animation cuz thats got quite a bit to do with frames.
I didn't mention infinites because infinites are often found in modern fighters and not once have they caused the game to break. If you implement a good engine you will eliminate a lot of the problems with infinites. If you fix everything else the number of infinites in deception would be dropped significantly and the difficulty would be increased.

You actully expect people to read that?

@1TrueKing:
Is all you can do quote other peoples opinions?
You don't seem to understand what I mean; IMO, Deception wasn't all too bad. Off course it has it's mistakes, just like every other game, but the game play in general isn't that bad (compared to other beat em ups or compared to MKDA). But I do agree that it's a merely improved MKDA. But so what? It happened, and there's nothing you can change about it, and pestering about the game like some sissy won't change it!
What I'm saying is, enough guys are pissed of at MKD for several reasons, and Midway probably knows this by now, and will do their best to make things better for future MK games.
Regarding dead characters; every story has it' s holes, and indeed MK has quite a few of them (mainly because there are so many games, movies/series, etc. and thus leads to complications in the story) but what would you do if you were John Vogel? What other story would you invent for this and that "back-from-the-dead" character?
Just as people want certain characters to stay out of future Mk games, others want certain characters to return. Would you leave out characters such as Sub-Zero, Scoprion or any other classic Mk character if the fans like them? If you would, your MK game wouldn't really be succesful and therefor suck. If not, what story would you invent of they died in a previous MK game? And if you had a story, how many fans would like it; or rather how many people would be pissed of about it (like yourself)?
The problem with guys like you is that you always nag about Mk games, there's never any praise! And if you have major problems with MKD (for example) then write a mail to Midway, and if you're lucky, they'll possibly build in some of your ideas in a future MK game, and we'll have at least one person who doesn't have anything to nag about...
Regarding Tekken, do you think Tekken's story is accurate? Tekken doesn't even have a big story (or at least not as big as MK).
And another thing about Tekken, is that it's fighting engine sucks big time, compared to MK.

Regarding Tekken, do you think Tekken's story is accurate? Tekken doesn't even have a big story (or at least not as big as MK).
And another thing about Tekken, is that it's fighting engine sucks big time, compared to MK.
Why do people talk about stuff they know NOTHING about?

Actually I do know what I'm talking about, cause I've played Tekken since Tekken 1, and eventhough I like Tekken, I can only say that MK is A LOT better...

OK then, if you know what you're talking aout, explain what is meant by frame rate and 50/50 mix ups.
If you can't then you know a lot less about judging a fighting engine than you think and shouldn't be making statements as bold as Tekken's fighting engine sucks.

to me. tekken has a better fighting engine but mk has more appeal cos its distinctly different from other fighters.

the mixs ups are the combos and as for frame rate, I have no idea what that is; haven't played for like almost a year..
Don't get me wrong, Tekken isn't bad, but it's nothing compared to MK imo. (When I said that Tekken was crap, that wasn't all too serius... -.-).
I mean, MK has more deatail, has Fighting styles, Fatalities MORE STORY, etc.
And Tekken has like so many characters that have the same moves, and Tekken is always about the Iron Fist Tournament and about the michima family..
You know it gets boring after a while...

Yeah, it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about. What do you mean when you say Tekken has less detail? And as for fighting styles, many characters in Tekken have more than one style, it is just less obvious because the name of the style isn't in the bottom corner. Only about 3 out of 30 characters have similar moves in tekken 5 (and even then there are still many differences in the characters). And what does fatalities and story have to do with actual gameplay?

Well being the post was mainly quotes if you follow the thread it's easy to skip the quotes or skim them and still keep up. Quite a few people read my posts.
You however I don't expect to. I expect you to come on talk trash and back down like a pussy when you're called out like you've done in the past.

I quoted your "opinion" because it was laughable. You made a statement that was moronic.
Why is everyone so pissed on MKD? The games great and even if it kinda sucks in some ways (such as dumb new characters and tons of other stuff
Look at that you admit tons of things are wrong yet you claim it's a great game.
I understand what you mean I just find it laughable. You think despite it having tons of problems its a good game. You think well all games have problems, which is somewhat true, however having a minor problem =\= having a major problem. Deception has MAJOR PROBLEMS. Look at the posts in this thread try to comprehend what these people are saying. You can't counter any of what is said in the thread. If you like the game fine but it's a bad game regardless. Some people like plan 9 from outer space but it's universally regarded as the worst movie ever made. The fans of it don't care and don't try to claim otherwise they are well aware it's quite possibly the worst moive in the history of movies. You can like a bad game all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's a bad game. If you compare it to whats required to have a decent working fighting game it fails in all regards.
I answered your question on why people don't like dead characters coming back and you attempt to argue with me on it. Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer. Seriously how old are you because you seem to have major difficulties understanding what I'm saying. Would you like me to dumb my posts down some for you? As for your question I wouldn't care about the story. You see I've played fighting games longer than you and I've never cared about the story because it has nothing to do with the gameplay. On most of the games I do know the story but I don't care about it. If I want a good story I'll play a rpg or another game. Reread my post and notice I wasn't pissed about it. You answered a question and I answered it. You didnt seem to understand the answer so you attempt to argue with it and make yourself look rather "special"
The problem with guys like you is that you always nag about Mk games, there's never any praise! And if you have major problems with MKD (for example) then write a mail to Midway, and if you're lucky, they'll possibly build in some of your ideas in a future MK game, and we'll have at least one person who doesn't have anything to nag about...

Do you realize what the name of this thread is? Seriously do you even comprehend this? Were you able to read what it said? Was the title 5 things that are great about deception? I'll give you a hint the answer is no. It's 5 biggest problems with MK:D. Why should I praise it in a thread about whats wrong with it?
Why would I write a letter to midway about this when it gets far more attention in public forums?
While we are at it what aspect of the gameplay engine is worth praising? The idea's are stolen from other games. The gameplay is stolen from other games but dumbed down to the point of being worthless. What am I supposed to praise? Puzzle kombat? It's a blatant ripoff/homage to super puzzle fighter 2 turbo and puzzle fighter was done better. Should I praise them for ripping off archon as well? Should I praise them for the inventive idea of removing wakeup from the series and removing the ability to block throws forcing a 50/50 game? Maybe I should praise the character selection? Ok I like one of the new characters. There's your praise. It means nothing it has nothing to do with the gameplay but there you go.
Is tekken's story accurate? Did you read my post before or do you not understand it again? Is english not your native language? I'll tell you one thing though the tekken story is a lot bigger than you realize. The only reason the mk story is so well known is thats become it's only selling point. The gameplay was horrible on mk4 da and deception. Nothing fanboys like you can point to as being good other than the story and with deception the fanboys were having issues with that. Again it's a fighting game. It's about fighting. I don't care about the story. Quite a few people who play don't care about the story. If you want story play a rpg or a beatumup they have better stories as well. If you want a fighting game play a fighting game.
Now as for tekken's fighting engine sucking. Thats just reaching. It's the most popular of the fighting series. It appeals to both casual gamers(mk target audience) and hardcore gamers. It appeals to people who are used to a high degree of depth(top vf 4 players). Yep it sure does make sense to say it's engine sucks bigtime. You don't like the engine fine I can't argue that. Saying the engine sucks can actually be proven wrong.

By that logic I can say this. I've played MK 1 since the very first version, a version that didn't even have reptile on it, and so I know what I'm talking about and I can say tekken is A LOT better than MK. In addition to playing mk from the start I played SF 2 from the start. I played KI 1 and 2(though it was garbage) I played some KOF I played MSH, xmen/sf, msf, and mvc. I've played tobal 2, groove on fight, cyberbots, darkstalkers 1-3. I played vf 2 3 and 4. I've played quite a few fighting games and since your logic dicates if you've played a game from the beginning you are qualified to say it is worse I'd say I'm very qualified to say that deception is a LOT WORSE than the games I listed.

It's only different in the fluff(blood/fatalities). It steals every aspect of its system from other games. It even got rid of the only unique thing mk has done, throw blocking. If mk has more appeal why doesn't it sell as well?

Uh mixups are not combo's and frame rate exists on every game and deception hasn't been out for a year so tell me how you played it a year ago?
Tekken is noting compared to mk in your opinion yet I've shown what your opinion is worth in this post. Your logic was shown to be flawed. Your reading comprehension is shown to be flawed.
Please explain what this detail is that mk has over tekken. If I make a game with 5 million different styles per character but only 4 moves are useable would that make it better than deception or any game for that matter? Tekken has quite a few styles/stances and often has more useable moves in one stance than MK characters have in 3 styles. Kinda sad don't you think?

1) Fighting Engine: It's too shallow for each fighting style. Most of the moves are completely useless. I'd rather have the fighters have one full style then three chopped styles. The combo system is also very broken, it's far too slow and combos are pulled off too easily.
2) The speed of the game is another draw back. It's slower pace take a huge chunk of the fun out of it.
3) The graphics are sub-par. There is no bump-mapping, bland textures, bulky models, bad blood physics (Tao Feng did it better). Very shallow character damage, (only the face is affected). No clothe physics.
4) Extras. While Chess Kombat was nice, the Puzzle Kombat and Konquest mode felt half-assed. The Puzzle Kombat, although a nice throw back to games like Tetris and Super Puzzle fighter, you don't have time to see what your character is doing because you're too conscerned with what's going on in your column. As predicted, Konquest is nothing but a series of fetch quests with a simple story to tie them all together.
5) Fatalities: Not so much the fact that the distance factor was brought back, as much the fact that many of the Fatalites were uninspired and unoriginal e.i Mileena's Sai Kick, and Noob's Shuriken toss.