I have a feeling konquest is something that looks awsome on paper, but somehow, they will mess it up.

HDTran Wrote: Not sure if anyone wants to continue talking about Create a Character, but I wanted to talk about counters/parries/reversals as a whole. How effective do you guys think it should be? In DoA and Soul Calibur, their systems make them very effective because they allow you to break out of stun animations if you do them, but you get punished harder generally if you mess up. In DoA, it's generally damage, but for some characters/moves you gain frame advantage. In Soul Calibur its entirely frame advantage, which is why I think people don't try it as much as DoA. It's also extremely effective in DoA since checklists are chock full of chains (which is why people think it's for mashers), even though top level DoA is all juggles (they look pretty cool if you've ever seen Europeans play em, even though Bass is so broke with floating [circular punch, circular kick.. not sure what the buttons are, but they let Bass keep guys up in Tag combos hella long]) since ground chains are easily countered. In Tekken it has moderate use although certain characters like Jin can whore up his parry easily since he can easily spam it and get decent results as well as not have a big risk. Both frame advantage and damage are rewards for it. In Virtua Fighter, for many characters, it's not used at all. For some, Jacky and Vanessa you have this neutral punch catch. You have that for Lei Fei when he is in the stance where only one leg is on the ground as well. For Aoi, who is probably the biggest one of all, she gets the Ying Yang stance where she can catch/slide any high or mid almost. But actual parrys/counters done on reaction is used very few, mainly on Aoi since her elbow/shoulder/punches/kick for say mid attack is the same command. In MKDA, it's entirely a stop animation and gives a guaranteed combo. Generally characters that have reversals want to do a full-style branch.

I think it should be effective enough to give the cast some sort of balance but not be abusable. I like the Soul Calibur system the best but I'd tweak it a bit. Because if in Deception we do have stuns I like the idea that if you get into that position often the only way out of taking more damage is to parry or reverse. I just think that they should be separate. A reversal and a parry. I like the idea that the weapon stances should be distinctly different in usage than the unarmed styles. They should feel like you're actually holding a weapon so you wouldn't really do a reversal with it but a parry. The parry in the weapon stance would be just frame advantage but the reversal in unarmed would be damage. One thing I'd do with the parry though is make the frame advantage dependant on the person. Jax's parry would take more frames to do but cause more frame advantage whereas Li Mei's would be the opposite. One thing I like about DOA is their weight properties.

I'd like reversals and parries to be semi easy to use= like in Tekken and SC.

I find the DOA reversals while being hit to be too easy.

If they do use a realistic counter system in MK I would like them to make use of many ways instead of one or 2 general things.

Depending on the characters and they're styles we could have.

Things that could happen during the reversals depending on the characters.

throw

Auto evade= like Raphael's V+K in SC2.

Switch place

Stun hit or small stun combo

Juggle hit

Throw chain starter

Regular attack, or small combo

Parry = stops the opponent's attack

Sway= push opponent's attacking limb to the side.

Special attack= parry then close up fireball or something. Like when Liu Kang killed Shang in the MK1 movie.

Aggressive block= you would push or move towards the opponent when blocking taking them off balance and stopping their combo.





Basically, have a lot of different ways to do it, so the game feels more fresh and not as generic. Some of these would also have different commands.

Some characters can do reversals and some can't.
It's all depends on their style.



I also want to see some throw reversals and fancy looking reversal reversals bad.

You can reverse a throw the same way you reverse an attack in tekken. Or maybe to escape a 1+3 throw you can tap 1 to escape it, or 1+3 to reverse it.

Reversing a reversal could be the same way. Like a chicken in Tekken, you tap 1+3, or 2+4 to reverse it.

It shouldn't be too hard to use like this.


Also, there could be the Rock paper scissors counters. Some moves will auto counter others. Or some moves will beat others like a Fling kick will beat a standing jab.

There could also be moves with auto parry animations like Lion's Down, back+p in VF4.

Then there can be counter or parry stances. Like Kilik's Down,Forward in SC2, Aoi's
Some characters might be able do link a counter stance like those to an attack or a combo.

Like Sub-Zero's Dragon stance combo.

1,2,Up+4,Counter stance.

The counter stance would come out fast like a regular attack in a combo.

You could also buffer a Reversal Reversal (Chicken) to the last hit.

1,2,Up+4~1+3.

The combo would look the same, but if someone reversed your UP+4 kick, then you would automatically do a (Chicken) But the chicken would look like a fancy reversal, not just a generic punch like in tekken.


Another one would be hit counters. Like heihachi's
You could either have an auto counter stance like Heihachi, or Dulley in Street fighter 3 3rd. Or you could tap an attack button the second you take a hit.

Every, or just some hit animations would have a designated counter button.

For a jab, or head snaps back, you could tap 3 to do a side kick (MK2 style standing low kick).

for a hook, or head turns to side, you could tap 2 to do a back hand, or 4 to do a round house.

You would have do do these by chance though most of the time.

But if you are taking hit by an unbreakable combo, if you know the last hit of the opponent's combo, you would know what button to tap when the hit comes.

Example:
Sub-Zero Dragon stance.
The 1,2,UP4 causes the opponent to flip and do a spin.

You know this is the hit animation, and let's say that whenever you do that animation 4 is the button you have to tap do throw a hit counter.

So now you know what button you have to tap in order to do the hit counter. You might even be able to buffer it ( just hold 4 for 1 second max.)

When Sub-Zero does the combo it would look like this.

Sub-zero = 1,2,Up4
you = 4
or you = 4---4 = hold 4 (buffer)

The result would be that when the UP+4 kick connects, you would do a flip and throw a round house kick nailing sub-zero in the head while you are falling down.


For sub-zero to reverse your hit counter, he could buffer in a reversal to the UP+4 kick like In mentioned above.

So now it would look like this.

Sub= 1,2,Up+4~1+3
You= 4

Since Sub-Zero buffered in a counter to his last attack, what would happen now would be something like this.

when you are hit by UP+4, you do a flip and throw a round house while falling down, Sub-Zero would grab your kicking leg, swing you around in a half circle while freezing your foot and toss you 6 feet.

You would now have a hard time getting up and Sub could run up to you and deliver some extra attacks while you are on the floor.

Note: If sub's back is towards a wall when doing this move, and you are at least 1-8 feet away. When Sub throws you, you will slam against the wall, or go through it, then have a hard time getting up.

If Sub's back is facing the wall at an angle, when he throws you, you will hit the wall, and bounce off of it at an angle, then have a hard time getting up.

You can't do any wall or ground tec. rolls during this throw.

That's the kind of fancy stuff I would love to see in MK. It's like something out of a matrix movie, and I've never seen anything like it in a fighting game, or any game for that matter.

Could you imagine how awesome it would be for MK to have stuff like this in it.

I can see all this stuff playing like a movie in my head.

Have stuff like hotlinking blocked? Oh yeah, I'd love that

woops, took care of that real quick.

I was talking about the idea above about the reversals with Sub-Zero.

Something that came up in another thread by mk_sensei was super moves.

What do you guys think about implementing something like that.

I think some super moves could be implemented in to MK and not have the street fighter feel to them.

I have a few examples here.

Rayden could have a close up super move similar to his Shocker hold in MK2, but he would hold you, and electrocute you then there would be an explosion of light and the opponent goes flying with a lightning bolt still stuck to them, like an umbilical cord.

If you are close to a wall, the opponent would fly and slam on the wall with the lightning still flowing on him like the ghost busters gun. the opponent would slide up the wall and hold for a couple seconds, then the lightning would stop and the opponent would fall to the ground.

-----------------
Ermac could do a magic lift and the opponent would go Very very high, then Ermac would to a magic pull and slam them hard as hell to the ground.

If there is a ceiling, Ermac will do the magic lift and slam them against the ceiling, then slam them to the ground.
----------------------------------------
Some character that uses pressure points.

They could use a delayed damage attack like the dim mak death touch.

They would do some finger jab, or a fast combination of finger jabs like Lion's throw in VF4. Half circle forward + Block + punch

The opponent would loose like 40% life, but very slow like when you are stabbed in MKDA.

If you hit the opponent during this time, you will cause extra damage.

Also as an added effect, the opponent could be coughing up blood and or stagger every few seconds to show that they are in pain.

The effects of this move would last around 5 seconds.
------------------------------------
You might be able to charge a fireball and have it be unblock able.

It could look like a regular charge, or you could do some fancy looking hand animations or chant some stuff instead.
-----------------------------------

Li mei can have a kill move where she breaks your neck.

It could work like a throw but a little more complicated.

These can only be done on your second winning round and the opponent must be at 50% life or lower.

Kill snap 1= opponent standing facing away. You break their neck. tap hcf+1+3

Kill snap 2= opponent crouching, you wrap your leg around their head and snap their neck. hcb+1+3

Kill snap 3= opponent on floor face down you kneel on their back and snap their neck. f, f, d+1+4 or 2+3


------------------------------------

Scorpion could have a ground attack super move.
You know how in Tekken 4, Kazuya can stomp a floored opponent if you tap down+4?

Scorpion could have something that works sort of like that.

When the opponent is on the floor, face up or down, you can do a super move against them where Scorp would stand on them with one leg on the opp. and one leg on the floor, keeping them from getting up, then he would take off his mask and do his fire fatality on the opponent's torso.

This move would kill the opponent.

The conditions would be.

It can only be done on your second winning round.

Opponent has less than 50% health.

Opponent needs to be laying on the floor with their feet towards you, face up or down.

The command would be down+3+4. It's easy to do, but hard at the same time because your opponent can do tec. rolls.


Kill move 2

opponent facing away, you choke them with your spear rope. They struggle for a while like a real stuggle would be with someone fighting for their life. It would end up on the floor with Scorpion on the opponent's back still strangling them the opponent making choking noises. Then you hear a Crackle then Snap. The opponent goes limp Scorpion stands up and does a victory pose.

The command would be, again on Scorpion's second winning round and the opponent has 50% or less health.

Opponent facing away, you tap hfb+1+2

There would be different animations for if you are close to a wall. While struggling, the opponent might slam scorpion's back against a wall, but the outcome would be the same.


-------------------------------------

Some bone breakers like in MK4 could be used to end the match.

There could be reversals that do this.

You could tap 360+1+3.

If you manage to catch your opponent's arm or leg, you would break it or do some complicated looking throw that ends up with a bone breaker Killing or disabling the opponent.

Again like the other supers, you can only do this on your second winning round and the opponent must have 50% or less health.

--------------------------------------

There should be no problem with having a move like this because we already have something like it with the death traps causing premature deaths.

There is a lot of stuff that could be done like this that can be used for super moves and not feel like a street fighter super.

You don't need a super bar to do this stuff either, it might be something that can be one just 1 time per round, or like a desperation move when you are low on life.


How about that, any thoughts or elaborations?

This is like what I said before about taking already used concepts and molding them to your own style.

Also keep in mind that there is no one way to do a lot of this stuff, we don't have to fall in to the general video game way of doing things like If a character has this move, then every body has to do it the same way.

NO, you can have the same basic concept but you can be creative and fresh with all the different characters.

Bleed pit-stage-fatality-2 is a classic,did you make it yourself?

Yeah I did it all my self.

Versatile wrote: "Baraka, even if you don't want an expanded system(a LOGICAL throw system, defensive properties, move variety, and other basic things) you cannot deny the simple fact that Midway should atleast have the decency to fix the things in it's buggy ass system."

Hey now, I never said that I was against properties, move variety, and other basic things. I like a lot of ideas on this board. For example, I'm convinced now that because MK has decided to have a counter system, it should be a LOT better than it was in DA. I'm also for more useful moves, and general improvement in the quality of the fighting engine.

I also agree that MK:DA was buggy as all hell, and that those problems should be fixed. I definitely don't deny that. I'm just not convinced about the throw system. I guess that I would be more happy if the game played like a 3D version of the old 2D MK games. But that won't happen, obviously. So perhaps that makes me a bit more against the throws and and what not. But that's just me. I like good games, honestly, I do.

You make a good argument, even if it still comes off as condescending.

Bleed: I definitely like your ideas. An air throw in the MK universe (one mentioned in an earlier post involved Scorpion yanking a guy out of midair with his harpoon) could be sweet! By new ideas, I just meant something that felt original in the context of a fighting game. It's difficult to think that way however. Yes, everything is derivative in some way, but if something is done well enough, and put into a unique enough context, I think that there are a ton of ideas out there waiting to be utilized and exploited.

As for create a character, I think that it would come down to reflexes more than anything else. If anything, it would help keep the game fresh for me. When I get a new fighting game, and I don't know a vast majority of the moves, everything feels new to me. But then I practice and I play against buddies and then practice some more and I get the feeling for it and then I get to a level where I believe that I probably won't progress any further. Then I get a little bored with the game.

Think about it though. If you're playing people online, and all you know is the names of their styles, but not the moves or special moves etc, I think that it'd be a fun and new challenge in a game that could've felt a little old or stale for some time. To me, that seems like a good idea then.

Besides, if you take your created character online, and you're playing against other created characters (perhaps there could even be a rule about that somehow), no one would seemingly have an advantage. To describe this advantage as random doesn't really wash with me, just because every character seems random the first time you play against them and you don't know what they can do. MK could keep that new feeling through the use of the creativity of those buying the game.

Dude if these comments were the description of the actual game I would actually pre order it and be excited about playing it and playing against others... I mean the competition aspect of it... the only thing I am semi-excited about MKDeception is the storyline for the characters that were missing and some of the stages and fatalities... I hope that MKD is postponed and the system is revamped as suggested or MK7 has this implemented into it... later

I say have it for MK7 and they should take 2-4 years to make the game, how ever long it takes, just don't rush it!!!

If MK was like this, with all or most of the ideas posted here, it would be #1 easy.

Awesome story
Awesome characters
Awesome stages
Fatalities
Stage fatalities
Mini games
Awesome game play
Super natural powers
Online play

I'd be like total overkill on the other games.

Should Jax have more agressive moves?I mean he is in the Army.So he should have takedowns,reversals,and powerful throws.

I was watching my cousin play VF:EVO and Vannessa's fighting fits her well.It has a "Cop" feeling to it.That rough fighting they use sometime.

Im starting to see MK needs to improve Gameplay wise also.I still like it though.It just has to change some more things and it'll be perfect.

Yeah, that would be great for Jax.

I'm not too keen on the whole Super Move deal. I think it would be better if your character had to be under say... 25% life. Sort of like a desperation move you could do to try and even the odds. You should only be allowed to do it once per match, but in any round.

Now the trick to it is knowing when to use it. Let us say you pull out your desperation move and you are at 20% health. You hit your opponent with it, causing their life to drop to 15%. Yes, you have made contact and caused your opponent to lose life, but now they are able to do a desperation move as well. Which, if they make contact, would drop you to 5% health or maybe even kill you. So by rushing to pull off your desperation move you have actually set yourself up to be killed.

Of course the moves should be able to be dodged and what not, but I think that would add a new dynamic to the game and would most certainly not feel very much like SF.


As for counters... Well, my first choice logically was a system similar to DOA. Everybody can do them, and you basically have a 33% chance to guess where your opponent is going to strike. But, the more I think about it, the more I wouldn't want that.

I have played in DOA 2 & 3 tournaments in my area, both single and with a partner. No matter how many different combinations a character can do, when it comes down to it I have noticed that most people tend to stick with a handfull of combos. Or rather, they find the most effective combos and try to change up the last hit. This is all good and fine and I guess even changing up the only the last hit could make it technically a whole new combo. Regardless, it becomes disgustingly easy to counter in that game once you have fouhgt one round with that person. And I began to realize that most damage in the game is not done by combos or throws but by counters.

Point of this story being, if MK:D or MK7 does adopt a DOA like system, they firstly need ensure the counters do not do as much damage as they do in DOA.

Another idea I had was perhaps making it so every character can only counter in two spots. IE: Scorpion can only counter low and high attacks, Sub-Zero can only counter high and mid attacks, Sindel can only counter low and mid attacks. Etc etc for all characters.

Doing this would force a player to learn every characters strength and weakness and how to get around it the most effective way.

But, that's not to say that Scorpion can only sit there and block if someone starts a combos that hits mid level.

Bleed's post above describe's what he calls an Agressive Block. Now I like this idea and it would work great with my 2-counter per person idea.

Taking into consideration the game would have a seperate block button, and a counter button, While scorpion is being attacked mid you would hold block while trying to time a press of the counter button correctly to correspond when your opponent would be hitting you. Successfully performing this would not counter the opponents attack, but instead use this agreesive block. Doing this, Scorpion would push forward on his enemy causing them to lose balance and leaving them open a split second to perform a combo.

Take someone who has no low counter. They could catch there foot and just push their leg backwards, knocking them off balance.

For no high counter, you could catch their fist, then pull it down bringing their head towards you, again knocking them off balance. For a kick, you could simply catch their foot and spin them around, yet again, losing their balance.

Sound good? Everyone with me?

Oh, and also different motions for whether they counter a punch or kick and different as well for what style you were in.



I also had the idea of being able to combo off of special moves. Take for instance again Scorpion. You attempt to do his teleport punch, you connect, afterwards you are able to add a couple hits, lets say by pressing 1, D+4. After his punch connects he could quickly punch again with his other fist then bring his leg around for a quick kick to the face. Just somehting to add a little extra damage. Also, if you do connect the combo on your opponent should stumble back a step or to. This is just to create some room between you two so whoever is Scorpion cannot immediatly come down into a style branch combo or something.

And yes for god sakes, some kind of way to escape a throw would be great. I know MK has never ever had them, but even 2-D Street Fighters have them now. Even if it's something simple like back and counter, right as your opponent starts the throw. The throws in MK:DA were pretty quick, so even if the counter is there and you are able to do it, it will still take some skill and reaction time to pull it off.

Also, some more variety in throws is needed. F,F+Throw. B,F+Throw. Quarter circle's, Half circle's front to back, back to front. The possibilities are to great for there to only be one throw in MK now, especially with the button system they are using.

That's all for now, time to sleep ;)

Good ideas for the Aggressive block!

I don't know about having the super moves, or Early kill moves available on both rounds.

Well, MK only has 1 round anyway sort of, so it would look odd to kill your opponent then they come back for round 2. Like with the death traps.

But then again it's just a video game so it could happen.



Having you be able to do an early kill move when your opponent is at 40% life would work too, but then it might kill the purpose of the attack in the first place. Super moves are either unblockable, or cause massive damage.

It would depend on how much damage a regular move can cause or a regular combo.

Like in Tekken a single hit from Paul's Smasher can take 39% damage on a counter hit. So if Paul had a kill move that would need the opponent to be at 40% or lower, what would be the point of doing it if you can take the same amount of damage with an easy attack like the Phoenix smasher.

A Paul kill move worth doing would have to cause 45-50% damage. They are super moves after all and are harder to pull off, so there needs to be a good reward for connecting with one.

That's my take on that.

As for Desperation attacks.

If the player on danger or 40% life could perform desperation attacks like a super move that would not kill the opponent then that would be ok too. It could help you to stay in the fight when getting pummeled.

So I would like to have both styles.

Early kill and the Desperation attacks.


Something to keep in mind is that most people don't want MK to be like street fighter. So it would be less like street fighter if you could only do super moves when you or the opponent has low health.

If you can do supers at any time, it would end up resembling tekken or street fighter too much.

About the reversals, I wouldn't want them to be like in DOA3, they are too easy to do because you can do them while being hit.

It would be better if you did them more like in Virtua Fighter 4 where you can only do them against the first attack, or while blocking.

There should also be some break points like every 1-4 attacks depending on the combo. Like with the tekken strings.

This way you don't have reversals as often as in DOA.



This thread is awesome, there's a lot of good ideas here.

What else could be done?

Bleed Wrote: Something that came up in another thread by mk_sensei was super moves. What do you guys think about implementing something like that.

I think that super moves could work depending on how their implemented. Something like the chi meter in Tao Feng could be implemented but distinctly different. For example, I don't think all the characters should have the standard attack move. For example, if you activate the super the bar gradually drains and as long as the bar is active everything is a stun for say one character. Everything is a counter hit for another. One character has a standard super attack. Another heals some life. One has altered frame data to make nearly everything safe. One has trackable or increased size or unblockable projectiles. It can be tailored to the type of character being played.

Right


These ideas sound pretty good to me, I think they would also help to make the game more fun and interesting.


The Kill moves and Desperation moves would bring the WOW effect back too. If they are done really over the top, but not stupid looking.

We've been through most of it. Grounding, aerials, combos, super/desperation moves, parries, side-stepping, reversals, juggles, blocks...

Actually, I did mention something about the wall system a page back or so. With the inclusion of death traps and the apparent removal of the "force field," the ability to use the environment at your disposal would increase the number of combos one would be able to do.

On walls, the ability to bounce back (Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution had this) would lead to a variety of wall combos. In Deadly Alliance, you could make wall combos, but with the dial-a-combo system it was basically a trap, and the opponent could not get themselves free. In DA, the opponent didn't bounce. The initial procedure was "splat and roll." Recoding that to a bounce would even up the playing field for both sides, as the opponent could also break free with a combo breaker, or even an "air breaker".

Ground bouncing can also be done. In Deadly Alliance, Jax's Tonfa style had a "bounce attack." This could be done, literally, forever. The implemention of an "air breaker" would fix that. Basically, its an air parry, as you knock the opponent to the side in order to fall to the ground and get back up for once. You can arm/leg lock them, head kick, whatever.

This is actually basic sounding, so I don't need to go into any detail about this.

The air parry sounds interesting how you say it.

Knocking the opponent's limb out of the way so you can fall to the ground.


This would look pretty realistic too, You are being juggled and you tap 1+2+3+4 or something like that. Your character could thrash real quick, like they do when they are falling in the Pit 2.

That could hit the opponent's limb and allow you to fall freely, then you could do a tec. roll.

It would have to be set up, so you need to time it just right like you would a parry. So you don't end juggles the same way you do breakers in Killer instinct. The air parry could be HOT for like 2-3 frames so it's not so much of an easy out.



Bounce attacks like what you said about Jax might only work against a standing opponent, if it hit's an air born opponent, they will just fall down harder than normal. Like in Soul Calibur 2.

Example with Mitsurugi= do his df,df+V and hold "V" so he pops the opponent up then goes in to the special stance.

While in the Stance, tap V again to do a strong downward attack that makes the opponent hit the ground harder than normal.

That's what I'm talking about for the bounce moves in MK.

This way you don't have to worry abut the infinite bounce combos, and you don't have the odd looking juggle enders from MKDA.

What about adding a universal long distance back dash.

Same basic idea as a back dash cancel in to another back dash, but it could look more realistic like Heihachi's
back, back, N, 3+4.

So you would tap
It would be like 3 steps,a long hop back, a back roll, or 2 back flips one with hands and the second one with no hands.

The look of the animation would look different for every character but it would basically be something like this. That would put some good distance between you and your foe.



I'd like to have this available because sometimes I'm trying to get away from my opponent and the back movement is too slow. This especially gets frustrating when trying to get away from the Tekken super moves.

I'm bashing the back dash as fast as I can and the damn thing still hit's me. It doesn't happen very often, but still...

Maybe this could work as a side ways long dash too.

What do you think?

A new idea = Special juggles that can only be done when the opponent is in the air. The same way as the combos in MK3 work where you have to connect with the first attack for the rest of the combo to come out.



Some one like Rayden could use his teleporting abilities to do special aerial combos. Seeing as he can fly and teleport, he should be able to do some really fancy looking aerial raves.

It doesn't even have to be like in the Capcom VS Marvel games, It could instead take advantage of Rayden's powers and 3D space.


An example would be that Rayden does a pop up attack, then there is a special command for a special air combo.

You could tap >+1+2, 3, 4, 1, 2.

The initial >+1+2 would be like a special air combo starter.

Rayden could teleport and hit the guy, then the rest of the attacks would be Rayden teleporting and attacking the guy over and over from all different angles really fast.

The last attack Rayden could turn in to a lightning bolt that comes down on the guy drilling him to the ground.

This entire combo would be with both characters in the air.

For an extra effect, if you continue to hold ">" after the air combo starter, then the rest of the juggle will be in slow motion.


If you have seen the Chronicles of Riddic, the last fight with the boss would look very similar to this.



I think that the characters special abilities should be taken to the max. Not just have the typical fireball, but instead go all fancy with as many options as possible.

Guess who's back from Cali?! Damn, I leave fine, tanned ass and come back for random MK lameness . Oh, joy...

This thread is still chugging along, sweet! I'm surprised to still see it, actually.

Uh, a random thought on the ever so fundamental button layout, since I saw it discussed a bit earlier. It's retarded. It doesn't make sense and I've been saying that since the day I played DA. Press 3, get a kick, then d+3 and a crouch punch or some shit comes out? Yeah, great logic on that one. Much of a decent system is how it logically appeals to the player. A LOT of DA could have been better if logic would have simply been sufficient.

I'm not even going to comment on throw systems...ok, maybe I will. Throwing is meant for basic mix ups and to punish and pressure turtles while keeping it realatively non abusable. Counters slow down the game, unless it's VF. I guaran-damn-tee a VF style grapple system would piss the hell out of half the MK fan base. If I want to grapple I'll pop in a UFC or good o'l smackdown:HCtP. In doring so, I understand I'm going to be bored to hell by it's methodical, slow ass pace. Thus is the nature of grappling, least in a virtual world. Unless, of course, it's VF.

At first I found the MKDA button lay out strange with having punches and kicks on the same button, but then I though......This is a great idea.

It's like If you have a character that has all punches like a boxer you can use any button for them instead of being forced to do something different like what they had to do with Steve Fox in Tekken 4.


Or if a character has 90% kicks and 10% punches. I'd rather use free space from all the button's instead of just being stuck with the "Kick buttons"


See where I'm coming from?

It gives the developers a lot more freedom that way.

That's just the way I see it.

Bleed Wrote: At first I found the MKDA button lay out strange with having punches and kicks on the same button, but then I though......This is a great idea. It's like If you have a character that has all punches like a boxer you can use any button for them instead of being forced to do something different like what they had to do with Steve Fox in Tekken 4. Or if a character has 90% kicks and 10% punches. I'd rather use free space from all the button's instead of just being stuck with the "Kick buttons" See where I'm coming from? It gives the developers a lot more freedom that way. That's just the way I see it.

Personally I like Steve's button system, in his case the kick buttons are used to a great effect of realism, as dodging and fainting are one of the core aspects of boxing, it's nice to see that such effort was put into him as he was one of the main things I liked that had been introduced into the Tekken series.

The part were I agree is it's use in the MK series. MK has realism in certain points but not in this.

It makes me think back to the high punch low punch high kick low kick of the classic games, they were a good idea, but couldn't be used to the limitations of a 2D fighter, although they were high and mid attacks, they were both blockable in the same way.

Now with a 3D MK you could go as far as havin different move-lists for each button, eg. 1 will do a move with the left arm, 2 with do another, the same can be done for the right arm for 3 and 4.

1 and 3 could be less powerful jabs that can be stringed into combo's, whereas 2 and 4 can be the more power moves, less combo's but can be used to hit your opponent through barriers, whereas the less powerful moves can't.

As to the ideas about super weapons and aggressors, I suggest you combine them, when the aggressor bar is full it could unlock the ability to pull off these super moves, or the the other way round the aggressor gets increased hit damage whereas the non-aggressor can pull off the super moves to even the odds.