MKD. Because I don't have an Xbox. Next question.

Well it is too easy to counter, but if you divy up where you attack they can't counter you as easily and a couple moves aren't reversable... I like the throw system a lot also, tons better than the MKDA system... graphics aren't the biggest deal to me... but I think MKD could be up to par with at least Soul CaliberII... come on... ummm... the instructional mode in DOA3 is really interesting, due to all the moves at my disposal.. I like using Brad Wong a lot due to he movements being hard to track compared to the other fighters... anyway... hopefully MKD will be pretty deep if some of your confidence holds up, but I'd rather have an easy reversal system and lots of options to attack, than almost no reversal system and one or two combos to work with... later

All you cats writing about DOA being deep need to watch some top tier players play this game and hear THEIR word on the game.

Check out some of the more note worthy tournys in japan and then come back and state DOA is deep.

DOA is shit. Complete utter shit. Al least DOA2 was playable... barely playable. DOA3 was trash.

Go find the top match vids and check out quotes from the top tier reference on the game from the source.

Here, I'll give you a start as to why this game is ass: It's too random.

"Especially when the best DoA2 player in the world beat the game developers (Team Ninja) at JAMMA '99 using a wavedash to 50/50 throw/mid mixup. He went 44 straight wins IIRC before the guys at Tecmo told him to leave. The DOA3 championships in Japan was recently won by a guy spamming a special cartwheel motiuon over & over. To this day, simple, abusive strats have been winning big-name tourneys for the most part."

I'll say this: DOA has the potential to be the best 3D fighter out. All they have to do is make that shit playable at a high level with some thought involved in the actual battles.

DOA is button mashing. You can get beat in DOA by a button masher no problem. You can get best in DOA by a scrub. It give no one ANY reason to learn the game strats becuase you can win by mashing. How do I know this?

1- i've played the game.
2- I've been beaten by kids who button mash.

This cannot happen in ANY OTHER fighter on earth.

How many fighters can you name where a player whom knows the strats and tatics flat out can get beat out by ascrub who played the game for 2 weeks? not many. Only DOA.

That would be like kid shaun in 3rd strike in SBO beating chun li used by a national champ 3/4 times.

No thank you. DOA is a scrub fighter. No top tier. Too random. No reason to learn strats no reason to even think while playing the game.

colguile Wrote: Here, I'll give you a start as to why this game is ass: It's too random. "Especially when the best DoA2 player in the world beat the game developers (Team Ninja) at JAMMA '99 using a wavedash to 50/50 throw/mid mixup. He went 44 straight wins IIRC before the guys at Tecmo told him to leave. The DOA3 championships in Japan was recently won by a guy spamming a special cartwheel motiuon over & over. To this day, simple, abusive strats have been winning big-name tourneys for the most part." I'll say this: DOA has the potential to be the best 3D fighter out. All they have to do is make that shit playable at a high level with some thought involved in the actual battles. DOA is button mashing. You can get beat in DOA by a button masher no problem. You can get best in DOA by a scrub. It give no one ANY reason to learn the game strats becuase you can win by mashing. How do I know this? 1- i've played the game. 2- I've been beaten by kids who button mash. This cannot happen in ANY OTHER fighter on earth. How many fighters can you name where a player whom knows the strats and tatics flat out can get beat out by ascrub who played the game for 2 weeks? not many. Only DOA. That would be like kid shaun in 3rd strike in SBO beating chun li used by a national champ 3/4 times. No thank you. DOA is a scrub fighter. No top tier. Too random. No reason to learn strats no reason to even think while playing the game.

Its still deeper and more fun than what MKDA gave me(my opinion)

Hmm..not to ruin your great speech but there are other games that are mostly won by button mashing.
Hmm..lets see, uh Bloody Roar 4(very poor gameplay)

but I do see your point. But each game has their own flaws...in many different opinions. But if MK:D is using bumb-mapping like Midway said..hopefully the characters will look better, the fighting will be faster...and we will have our fighting game of 2004.

SonOf100Maniacs Wrote: Its still deeper and more fun than what MKDA gave me(my opinion)

I'll have to ask you to explain your opinion.

As for 'fun', yes DOA is more fun than MKDA. A LOT MORE FUN.lol But it's not deep at all. it's as shallow as can be. I don't see how you can find it deep so I'll kindly ask you to explain what you mean.

Scorpianskullfatality Wrote: Hmm..not to ruin your great speech but there are other games that are mostly won by button mashing. Hmm..lets see, uh Bloody Roar 4(very poor gameplay) but I do see your point. But each game has their own flaws...in many different opinions. But if MK:D is using bumb-mapping like Midway said..hopefully the characters will look better, the fighting will be faster...and we will have our fighting game of 2004.

I'm not a bloody roar fan nor do I follow it in internatioals so I can't say. I played BR 2 and changing into a mole was...cool. As for the combos system i can't say. I would hope some tiers of strats were available. I'll have to check it out.

As for MKD...I've said enough on that game. I'll have to hold my breath and wait.

As for fighter for 2004...if tekken 5 comes out this year then I doubt it. But we'll see.

Ill tell you my opinion. Mortal kombat Deception will kick DOA'S ass. Ive prooved my point.

Here we go. Alright first of all I will like to say Tekken will always be the king of 3D fighting games (goes upstairs and gets his Heihachi hair hat). Now to get to DOA or MK:D


Midway and the Mk series:
First off, Mortal Kombat is probably the best game by Midway because i just got Psi-Ops and wow does that game suck (Graphically and by Gameplay) then i will just like to say that Midway mostly cares about the Fatalities that is why MK doesn't match up with (gameplay wise) the other games. That is all that i will say for now.


(dives in tub full of water for flame protection)

Well, I think that graphic wise DOA whoops the shit outta MK:D Sorry, but it's sorta the truth. I mean stage and character-wise (I don't think the huge bouncing tits really have a big hold over MK, look at the chicks of Deadly Alliance, especially Li Mei, Lol ) But as far as gameplay DEFINATELY MK:D. It has a much better and in-depth backstory than DOA. I actually that DOA ever really had a backstory other than the actual character's stories (Hell, I could be wrong) But yeah, I think the fact that MK has blood, guts, and more violence will definately make it outsell DOA.

I already pre ordered MKD and DOAU.

I think MK has a larger fan base and appeals to a wider range of consumers, so MKD will be more popular.

About which one will be a better fighter....DOAU.

Now if they would only get rid of the easy reversals in DOA and make them more like Tekken and VF.

The easy reversals is the only thing I don't like about DOA.

They can leave it just one button, because there isn't a big difference between tapping
The difference is how the reversal works, and that's the problem in DOA. It's too easy.

If I get the online thing, I'll play both games, but I'll probably play DOAU more often because I like the fighting in that game much better.

DOA isnt an extremely deep game, but its deeper than mkda. it has more and different moves (more of which are useful tahn MKDAs), reversals maybe easy but they actually put different animatioins into each one (plus there are high, mid, and low reversals), theres a better throw system (including throws that repond to certain parts of the arena), more counters, back attacks, more useful ground attacks, there are rising moves (plus you can choose to get up quicker or wait for your opponent to come to you and do a rising attack), there are down attacks, and fighting styles are better and more accurate (good example, brad wongs drunken fist vs. bo rai cho's drunken fist), there are probably alot more reasons but i cant think of any right now.

Bleed Wrote: I already pre ordered MKD and DOAU. I think MK has a larger fan base and appeals to a wider range of consumers, so MKD will be more popular. About which one will be a better fighter....DOAU. Now if they would only get rid of the easy reversals in DOA and make them more like Tekken and VF. The easy reversals is the only thing I don't like about DOA. They can leave it just one button, because there isn't a big difference between tapping The difference is how the reversal works, and that's the problem in DOA. It's too easy. If I get the online thing, I'll play both games, but I'll probably play DOAU more often because I like the fighting in that game much better.

I only own 1 DOA game which would be 2, and everytime I see some character do a reversal and it takes off a huge chunk of power off.

For should an easy thing to do there they shouldn't be that powerful, if they're going to keep that they should have chicken manouvers(SP?)

I'd suggest the use of parries but they wouldn't be very helpful in a game lie DOA that's so easy to button bash in.

I can see myself getting bored of Deception online easily, I have no interest in the extra modes and if there's nothing more than a vs mode against other people then it's going to be short lived, and I'm no fan of DOA so I'm not getting that at all.

After getting so bored of DOA2 so quickly I won't be putting my trust in it again, I'll stick with Tekken for fighting engines, and I don't have a X-Box anyway

IMO DOA Ultimate is going to kill MK:D in sales, and I say this for numerous reasons. First off, contrary to popular belief here on this site, DOA has a much larger fanbase on the Xbox than MK does. The Much higher sales of DOA3 as compared to the XB version of MD:DA is a testement to that. Secondly, you have to take in the fact that for XB owners, DOA Ultimate is already one of the most awaited as well as preordered game coming out this year, MKD just isn't as awaited as DOA is. Then there is the gameplay systems, neither one of these two games is really deep, but with the tons of throws and counters that DOA has it does come out ahead and many a poll on XB forums have have proved that the majority of XB gamers perfer DOA's gameplay. Then you have to add in the graphics, we all know XB owners are all about graphics and DOA Ultimate Kills MKD in this departement, while MKD has very good graphics the differance between the PS2 and XB versions looks pretty small and thats not what many XB owners want to see. They want games that blow the PS2 graphics out of the water, and that is what DOA ultimate does. Don't take my post the wrong way, I love MK and I have already preorder the collectors edition, its just that from what I have seen on the mainline XB boards, DOA is going to kill MK because of all the hype for it.

Well I just saw the new screenshots for MK:D and I just wanted to say that the graphics have much improved since MK:DA and that you can tell they revamped the backgrounds to make them multi-tiered. So who knows..mabey MK:D will make the top in sales instead of DoA:U...but now I heard word from Team Ninja about DoA:Code Cronus. What this is I have no idea..perhaps their fourth fighter?

Dude, as a Xbox owner, I care about graphics, but gameplay and fun is more important... I bought Altered Beast defender of the realms today, graphics are 2-D and semi-primitive and is two years old... anyway back on the subject... I still think MKD will outsell DOAU overall on both systems... MKD's graphics are excellent for a PS2 port... I hope DOAU addresses the fighting system flaws just as I hope MKD addresses the flaws in MKDA, but there are more flaws in MKDA than DOA3... oh well... later

I just have one thing to say about the counter system in DOA and it's damage. If you played through DOA2 or read the instruction manual in DOA3, you would've noticed that it's not the counter itself that determines the damage, it's what's being countered. It said that a counter will do damage directly proportional to the attack. So if you get half your life shot down with a counter, then it's your fault for launching it. That's all. It makes fighting more tense to know that although you can execute a move that can end the fight, your opponet has the option of countering it, and throwing the force back at you, turning the tables. It's simple martail arts physics. When doing any counter, use your opponent's force against them.(More realistic)

I don't particularly know what the differences in DoA3 that made it worse than DoA2 from what ColGuile was talking about since I think the same random stuff would still work in DoA2. BUT, DoA3's counter damage is greatly lessened, and that helps a ton. I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but in DoA2, counters shave off ridiculous amounts, whereas counters in DoA3.. the damage is much much much more bearable. I am also against DoA's counters being able to activate mid-string, but since DoA has so many strings which makes it masher friendly, I suppose it needs that. Also, I'm not sure how the tournament scene for 1v1 DoA is, but I do know tag DoA3 is ridiculous with characters doing at least 60% combos normally even though you have to work hard for it. (Well I suppose the same could be said about Tekken Tag damagewise, but still.)

As for what ColGuile is talking about in randomness, that is entirely true. Not because DoA is a flawed game, but because mainly, DoA's optinos are too many and equally good. While you can argue that this makes a good fighting game, in essence, it makes a bad one. DoA is rock paper scissors where the rock, the paper, and the scissors are all equally good. In fighting games, when you have this sort of thing to balance eachother out, usually one is more safer than others, one is more strong, etc. etc. Characters have unequal balance of rocks, papers, and scissors. In DoA, while there are distinctions between characters, in general.. even with the grapplers, I find myself knowing that I have a lot of options and pokes, and can survive on those without throws. These options, factored in with the huge amount of strings, creates a very random game. Why? Because everything and anything is effective. You look at Tekken or Virtua Fighter and most people are throwing mids most of the time, lows are less safer and are used for mixup and highs can disrupt a lot of mids and whatnot. Because their options arent equal in safety or effectiveness, but needed for mixup whereas DoA's options are almost entirely equal. However, is DoA still better than MK? Most definately, MK is Rock Paper Scissors (RPS) done much more horribly than DoA.

As for what game will be sold over the other, DoA Ultimate most likely. People that buy MKD, if the system is not dramatically improved over MKDA, all I can say is that its staleness and lack of options after one month will probably keep everyone playing the puzzle game. I love Mortal Kombat as much as the next fan, but Mortal Kombat's lack of options and really, just lack of a real fighting system destroys itself entirely. I don't want to use the same combo over and over, I don't want to use my only useful low over and over, etc. I want some move properties that will add a reason for me to use the other ones. I want more options.

So to conclude this post. DoA has too many good options which makes it random. But MK is just as random for the lack of options, since there are only a 2-3 ways most characters should attack risk/reward wise in MKDA.

However, DoA2 or DoA3 is still much more fun to play than MKDA. As for MKD, when Ed Boon said faster, most likely he just meant forward dash. Good luck to both games.

I still think Team Ninja should have made a DoA4 that removes some of the strings, fixed the countering to something more acceptable, and generally make the game a bit slower, as well as making low options much much slower, mids a bit slower, and obviously both of those a lot less safer, etc. Strings should be shorter as well. At least DoA's current strings don't alternate between mids and lows, and that low options in strings are generally at the end or not there at all, thats okay, it works.

Even though I said all the top however, I disagree with ColGuile that DoA is a game thats not worth learning.

First, TiT6 DoA3 Finals Vids on news of:
http://www.doacentral.com/

Also, DoA has a lot of advanced mechanics in their system such as limbo stuns, environmental stuns (based on if you're on ice, snow, etc.), and other such things. It certainly has much more depth than MKDA and most likely, MKD.

Also, if anyone wants to see that Japanese Tournament and the player doing a huge amount of cartwheels to sidestep to the side and to the back of the opponent, its also on www.doacentral.com, in the media section labelled Japanese finals. Even though I don't think it's really cheap or anything, just a huge advantage sidestepping wise.

Yeah HDtran that is all I was tryingto get across. Personally DOA is the shittiest fighter out. It's fun as hell but shitty. Out of all fighters it is presented the best but lacks some real strats imo.

Too many mashers play that game.

As for it being deeper than MKDA....I'll agree on the fact that the amount of fighting options in the game out number the ones in DA and more are usefull. Grab, counter, punch and kick can be used to win.

Not to mention due to randomness tiers are non-existent in a sense.

3D fighters still have a ways to go.

Anyone also get dissapointed at the fact that MK:DA didnt have video endings like they did in MK4? If MK:D can successfuly bring these back I would appreciate the effort put towards beating the game. And, in DoA3, if you beat the game with everyone you unlock a hidden character. MK:D should have something like this as a reward. Because after all, whats worth playing a game and getting crappy awards for winning? Nothing. At least MK:DA had two hidden people as bonus for beating Konquest mode, and I give MK:DA kudos for that.