Well,didn't you say you were going to kick my ass,even when I use the "cheap" stuff?To remind you,

MK2Dave, lol bro try that Darious crap on me and ill whoop your ass three ways to sunday.

You also said that you can escape 50/50 mix ups easily.We'll see about that.

BRC is the best in the game because the MK team did one hell of a poor job testing this game.Hell,BRC isn't the only one.

Anyway,my ID is IGNIZ.

This is off-topic, but I gotta say that the vitamin C crack was one of the funniest things I've ever read off a message board in awhile, lol. Gotta have that Vitamin C!

Well NO, you don't say! So I play Tekken just to torture myself and subject myself to needless hours of pain? I thought all along I was enjoying the Tekken gameplay. You can get plenty of fun out of Tekken if you know how to play, it helps if you like the genre too. Just because it doesn't have blood and gore featured in it doesn't mean it is devoid of fun. But I guess people value that more than actual gameplay. Most of MK's fun comes from gimmicks, which isn't a good thing.

My point is, storyline doesn't mean much to a fighting game. It can be interesting, but gameplay is the most important since it powers the game. If you wanted storyline over gameplay, then you'd be better off reading the manual and throwing the disc away. Some people get extreme satisfaction and fun just from playing the game and winning. This is why I think MK fails, because you can't play this game without falling foul of its many flaws, Midway should just write MK books, with pictures of gore.



True, but Tekken needs to improve FAR less than MK. Tekken has almost made it, like someone said, MK has barely made a start. And MK's faults are extensive, Tekken 5's are minor. Plus the fact Tekken 5 is at the top of it's game, while MK:D is at the bottom...

MK doesn't suck... But, breakers do!

Counters anyone? Parries? Instead we got breakers, a combo interrupting feature that was supposed to add strategy to the game, but fails to do so.
Breakers are horrible, they mess up the system of play, espescially when coupled with the chain combos of the games.
We need a system, of strings and custom combos that utilize carefully timed counters and parries, not some dial-a-combo, coupled with the same old adbreak punch that can be done simply by pressing block+towards when you expect the first hit!

Yeah, anyone else got any ideas for replacement features to get rid of breakers?

...Oh, one thing MK has better than Tekken; you don't just press 'away' to block, you actually have a button for blocking. This is good, breakers aren't though...

To me, I found various problems with Tekken 5 overall. I didn't like the announcer. He was too bland and boring. Where's the guy who did the stuff for Tekken 3?? They need to get him back! I hated the fact that almost everyone said "Come on!". I didn't like some of the voices such as Asuka's whiny bitch voice or the multiple voices of Lei Wulong going from this American sounding cop to a Jackie Chan wannabe. The "You were not good enough." line made me wanna cringe as it was just that bad. I wasn't really impressed with the new characters except for Feng Wei. The walls tend to piss me off. The walking is still the same and I've always had a problem with the walking in terms of look and feel. When playing, I seem to only find a fraction of the moves and combos to be useful.

The music was pretty good for the most part, but I like Tekken 3's music better overall. I was a bit disappointed in the size of the stages though the look of quite a few of the stages such as the Moonlight Wilderness is very good. I like a lot of the characters and I was pretty impressed with Feng Wei. I just despise crap characters like Marduk, Kuma, Asuka, and even Paul. The Devil Within game is boring, repetitive, and frustrating. Jinpachi is an extremely cheap and annoying boss. The customization feature, which I liked the concept of though not original, was one that I was disappointed with due to limited and sometimes uninteresting items. I will say that I made quite some interesting looks for some of the characters.
One thing I did like was the practice mode. It's probably the best practice mode I've experienced in a fighting game.

Overall,, I still like Tekken 5 a lot and I really hope they'll fix a lot of things when Tekken 6 comes around.
.

I like mk for tradition and the story

Well, according to both national and worldwide sales figures, most people don't prefer MK over Tekken. Please explain.

Please provide worldwide sales of both Tekken 1 -5 and MK1 - MKD, so you can at least back up you statement.

According to Midway.com, MK as a whole has sold around 22million worldwide. Tekken 5 by itself has sold 23 million worldwide. Pwned.

Edit: My bad, the Tekken figures are for the Tekken series as a whole, not just 5. Thought that was a bit lopsided.lol So, what we have is a score of 22 million worldwide for MK, 23 million worldwide for Tekken. Pretty close, huh? Not really.

As a franchise, MK has had around 10 or so games that have sold on multiple platforms. Tekken has had only about 7 games, and is on a single platform, and still has MK outsold by 1 million. Still pwned.

Link please for the Tekken figures.

WTF? Who gives a shit about sales figures? McDonalds has better sales figures than produce supermarkets who specialize in veggies and fruit. Guess which one is better for you.

1TK, since when the hell did you get so jaded, lol. Easy big guy.

A lot of people try to use this fun argument. As stated earlier, though, people view "fun" in a different context. I'd like to say that one context is not better than the other, but in reality that is not true. There is a difference between "fun" and true "joy."

I ask, for you sports fans, when did you have more fun? When you first started playing, not knowing the rules and the strats that go along with that game? Or, did you have more "joy" when you got good, you understood the game, how it's played, what makes it suck. You have a deeper understanding than when you began. I guauran-damn-tee you enjoy partaking in that sport more now than when you started. The whole "freshness" of it may have been there when you started, but the actual joy was not nearly as developed. You have developed a much greater knowledge base for which to pull experiences from; thus, your true joy has eclipsed that when you started.

For instance, Zentile and myself are both wresting fans. However, Zent is actually attending wrestling school, has a gimmick, is breaking into the business, etc. He has a much greater knowledge base than I do regarding wrestling. Both in its history and performance. He understands the nuances that develop character, he understands how to protect the other wrestlers, he partakes in wrestling’s actions on a higher level than the average TV fanboy. Because of this knowledge base he appreciates it that much more. That appreciation develops a true sense of joy, I'd bet my soul more so than my self. If I'm wrong, though, please tell me to fuck off.

People say, "don't you play it for fun." Well, yes, of course. Though people need to look at what genre is being discussed. WTF is the point of a fighting game? To have fun? Yes, but how? By beating the shit out of the other guy. Fighters are a competitive medium. Competition is very integral to human development, too. Because of this, certain people can't have fun by simply throwing shit out, witnessing broken gameplay, seeing the same fatality more than a few times, ect. They need something deeper and more complete. Studying frame data, studying strats, winning, developing their skills and achieving a greater level of play as the days go by. It's true joy due to a greater and increasing understanding.

Though, when the very medium it self does not allow this, due to shitty design and brokeness, those people voice out. They voice out with their knowledge base, attempting to explain why it doesn't work, what needs to bee fixed, how it can be fixed and so on. For some reason though, it's met with strife. I remember that whole "elitist" shit that went on for a few months....damn that was retarded, anyways.

It has nothing to do with being stupid. It has everything to do with level of understanding, which can only be increased by delving into the "true" content that is offered. Once you start learning you see the mistakes, why they suck and so forth. You can't develop your "joy" in playing the game because the game it self stops you from doing so.

Point is , as said before, people view "fun" differently. EVERYBODY needs to realize that. All I'm saying is that many more people would experience true joy, if they only increased their understanding. Because they don't, however, why should Midway acknowledge the faults with in the game? They won’t. The consequence is that the series continually under achieves and leaves players with an experience that is under developed.

HEY!!!!!!!!!!! Mortal Kombat does not suck. Yea I play Tekken also but Mortal Kombat is so much better here's one reason there is blood, deathtraps,fatlitys,ect. Yea so what if mortal kombat doesnt have movies for endings. It doesn't make a diffence!

If it sucks why did u buy it, and become a member on this website.

Sorry to say but you're an idiot if you haven't read the post above yours.

I think that presentation and content is very important, but to make a good, profitable, stylish and unique fighting game, you need the gameplay as essential element.

BUT, you can't match Tekken if you have a good fighting system but be completely devoid of anything worthwile and in the same time, completely whitened from everything why you fight through the game.

Most of those who play the game without the urge to explore or notice the presentation are simply efficiency players (Diablo 2 effect, you don't cre about the game, but for the items and experience levels you get) who show les complexity and tend to overlook base elements other than whats beneficial for them. -psychological scientific fact.

And thats exactly the opposite direction why video games exist. I don't want to succumb to play the game siply to get better, but to enjoy it. Doing this way, I DO get better, but not without submerging into an exiting world.

Correction on the last one:

though without focus on getting better, a submerged player does indeed get better in a slower pace rather than the players who disregard key elements. However I still believe than a hour of relaxation is better than a hour of agressive competition.

Geez, video games are so complex to leave you purposely (?) perplexed.
We should be thankful that we have them, though proceed with care. Later guys.

P.S: evolve the fighting engine goddamnit, I wan't my presentation and athmosphere on proper bases in MK7.

CubsFan3458 said: HEY!!!!!!!!!!! Mortal Kombat does not suck. Yea I play Tekken also but Mortal Kombat is so much better here's one reason there is blood, deathtraps,fatlitys,ect. Yea so what if mortal kombat doesnt have movies for endings. It doesn't make a diffence! I say: In that case, like one of the other members said, an MK comic book featuring pictures of gore should suffice for you.

For Fuzzdork:

Namco.com is saying 20+ million, while multiple game retailers are claiming 23+ million, while yet another source is claiming 21+ million. None of these figures include any Tekken 5 sales.

So the lowest Tekken figure found was from a press release in February from Namco stating 20+ million units sold worldwide, excluding Tekken 5 figures. The highest figure was 23+ million from multiple retail sites.

So the fact remains that Tekken is about even or slightly ahead of MK in sales worldwide, without Tekken 5's sales even factored in yet, with less games in the series, and on only one platform.

I'm going to try to also find updated figures for Tekken 5 sales and MK6 sales worldwide.

Nice discussion going here....

Well, what can I say? I've played Tekken 2 & 3 so many times that it hurts my eyes. I couldn't wait for Tekken 4 to come, and when it finally came it disapointed me big time! I expected the game to renew that fighting egine, this was the new generations of consoles and Tekken did not improve that much. More of the same, sadly enough. I am afraid this also happened with Tekken 5.

As for MK, I kinda lost my interest after MK 4, which was disappointing I think. But MK came back with a whole new fighting enige and I think after that MK really rocked. Of course Tekken's engine is ways better but it's nothing new to me anymore. That is why I like MK over Tekken these days.

You know what's funny? How many people say, "Mortal Kombat has a shitty storyline and shitty fighting system! Tekken is 100 times better!" But you're still HERE! Why!? If MK sucks so much, then why is your user name for example , "MKShangTsung" or "OutworldWarrior" or the like. I mean, you still got more visits than me, and you're here every day bagging on MK? How about this idea: GET A LIFE!
If you don't like MK so much, then don't play it every day for 5 hours. And if you like, it then stop complaining about something that doesn't need fixing.
Did you ever think that maybe Midway made the system 50/50 for a reason. Like so that you don't end up winning by not letting your opponent get up 100% of the time? That's what I hate about some Namco stuff, it's like, "Oh you won, because you're better. I mean, my face didn't leave the ground except for when you kicked it!" Tekken's cool, I got nothing against it, but there's a reason why we're here! Mortal Kombat! Which, don't get me wrong, is JUST a video game! Why bother with this dumb ass rivalry like, "MK >>>>> Tekken!" They're games. Every game has flaws, but then every game that has anything of a fanbase MUST have something about it that's exceptionally good. That's why the MK fanbase is so big. Same with Tekken. Saying things like, "This is the dumbest post yet!" over and over and over, is something only a big nerd or a 14 year old would say. Learn to take criticism, people. If I say I think Tekken sucks, you don't gotta come at me like I insulted your damn family, geez.

Well, I think you have some valid points. However, in regards to those who are bashing the fighting engine of MKDA and MKD, they are MK fans who simply want the MK fighting engine to be good. I understand that as I'm an MK fan who wants the MK fighting engine to be better. I'm not sure if Midway really made the fighting system full of 50/50 mixups for a reason. I think it's more likely that they are unaware of things like that. Then again, I could be wrong as I'm not so sure on that.

I think the MK fighting system really does need things like a wake up game, move properties, etc. so things will be balanced and deep.

At the end of the day, these are just video games and these two particular series are ones that I like.

Yea, I see what you're saying. But like I said, every game could be improved in one way or another. But it's unfair to say, "This game should be more like that game," because I like MK for what MK is, if it was more like Tekken, I wouldn't like it as much. The fighting system is IFFY at most, but it's still VERY enjoyable in my opinion. I have a lot more FUN playing MK than I do Tekken. And I love Tekken. But MK, I could just sit there, playing Arcade mode through, just because it's unpredictable. But yeah, I understand what you mean, but really every fighting game has a long way to go to make true-to-life fighting.

Why change it?
I mean, if I want to play something more technical, I play Tekken.
If I want to play 50/50, I play MK.
I like that the fighting games industry offers a wider array of choices, so that I can enjoy some simple, easy to learn fighting games too.
If all fighting games were like Tekken or Virtua Fighter, I'd probably drop the genre. I don't have time to play only hard to master games.
Currently, everyone who spends a fair amount of time on this game can compete, while the occasional player is totally helpless in games like Tekken.
MK is an easy to understand guessing game which can prove very challenging against strong opponents who never miss the chance to fully play their character. Sometimes the key to victory is not just guessing right, you could loose a match because of a missed hellfire or free throw.
MK is easier to master than most fighters out there, but it doesn't mean that you don't need personal ability or tactical strategy. Oh, for those who talk about real-life fighting... this is a videogame. It will never be even remotely similar to "real-life fighting", which by the way doesn't exist as you intend it. The closest thing to real-life fighting would be a "Pub Fight Simulator" or a "Spar With Your Dojo Partner Or Sifu Simulator". That wouldn't be very exciting... the very concept of a SIMULATOR where two skiller martial artists enter a ring and fight to death is ridiculous, especially if they have an health bar. Don't strive for realism, try to improve the fun factor without forcing the obiouvs limits of a console video game.

subzero13: We're here because we were MK fans since the beginning and through their many iterations, not here because we're fans of MKDA/MKD.

bowbefore: The reason why many people complain about MK is that it doesn't foster any strategy besides the basic 50/50 and move abuse of the top characters. That's the problem, against two good players, you're just gonna have luck be a big factor due to constantly guessing the 50/50 game that requires no setup and requires only the alternation of two moves that move extremely fast. It's like asking how skillful two people can get at calling heads or tails when a coin flips.

As an avid MK Fan in the past, the current MK's are disappointing. I remember as a kid when I used to rush to arcades to play against people in MK1, MK2, MK3, and UMK3. There was a lot more strategic depth in those games than the current MK's and I played it many a time. I speak now because what I see in MKDA and MKD, MK has lost any foothold on the genre on being even an average fighting game, because I feel that MK's gameplay lacks everything that makes the foundations of a good 3d fighter.

Think about it, MK lacks all the move properties, frame advantage, wakeup games, counters/parries/reversals, counter hitting, etc. that are found in games such as Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, and Dead or Alive. To have basic foundations down that established the 3d genre does not favor complexity, it favors having a reason to use many moves in your movelist at all and to think beyond simple 50/50. MK lacks foundations for a basic game above having 90% of the moves are useless.

Imagine if the 2d MK had no fireballs, no jumpkicks, no crossup jumpkicks, no anti-air moves (such as standing HPs). Imagine also if all the moves in MK executed 5 times faster and you couldn't see sweeps or jump kicks or anything anymore really since they come out almost instantly. You aren't gonna defend that it's a "good" 2d fighter if they lost basic things like that right with crappy animation?

That's the same thing with 3d MKDA and MKD. It lacks basic movement, it lacks any ground game or wakeup game, it lacks move properties and a reason to use most of the moves in the game and it just lacks so many things its wrong. Ontop of that you have infinites and bad mocapping/fludity of moves where it almost seems like Tao Feng, thus making moves come out in a non-fluid and way that favors 50/50 only as opposed to trying to use any of the other moves.

The fact stands that Midway intended this game NOT to be 50/50 and NOT to only use a handful of moves (why does the movelist have so many moves otherwise?). In that aspect, it failed heavily.

BowBeforeScorpion: Thanls for being positive. I almost gave up on these forums, thinking that everyone was bitter for no good reason and hatin on each other. Which I find very common in most forums these days.

As for everyone else: If you don't like the way MKDA and MKD are made, well, the classics haven't been recalled, and haven't been all stolen from the database of the world. If you like the classic MK games so much, play those and stop complaining about the new ones, cause you know how much Midway did to improve MK from MKDA: Fatalities, Gameplay Modes, Characters...
The thing is, you people will NEVER be satisfied with what MK is! And you wanna know something else? No matter how GOOD MK gets, it will never capture the magic that came with MK1 and MK2, that's just a fact. That's how classics are. Games nowadays can have all the cool features in the world, and will blow you away, but they'll never feel as... What's the word I'm looking for? Heart-warming? Anyway, they'll never feel as heart-warming as MK1 or 2, because those two have kicked off the series, and ever since, fans have been bitching and bitching and bitching! Your life will not end if you stop buying the new MK games! If you're so freakin disappointed in the series these days then give up on it, go play some Tekken and leave the MK fans alone! Or maybe you can't... Maybe this is the only source of friends you've got... (If you can call them that.) In that case, I cannot sympathize with you. Good luck with that.