Hey, that's cool, bro. No one is saying that the game can't be enjoyed. But the fact is it's not a very good game. Doesn't mean you can't still enjoy it, we just want it to be fixed next time around, that's all. If we weren't MK fans, we wouldn't give a shit if it got fixed or not, 'cuz we'd never play it anyway.

Edit: Oh, and nobrainer needs some dragon points for that little nursery rhyme.lol That was the shit.

Yeah, instead of fighting, let's try and get Ed Boon's attention with some improvement suggestions...

MY SUGGESTIONS:- (.i.e. a big grammatically disordered, barely readable list of stuff!)
Strings, Counters, Parries, Wake-ups, Tag-mode(Umk3, or maybe Tekken style), More accuracy to the Martial Arts, Less space spent on side-modes(Still 'ave em though!), Reversals, Move Properties, More moves needed(useful ones...), No Auto Recover, Less-one sided; "Characters with combos beat Characters without Combos", stuff, More intricate ways of utilizing specials, No "cheap" moves, Sweep moves less effective, Varying degrees of Reversals, with the initial counter producing different responses at different stages in the frames of the opponent's attack, Less reusage of moves from the last game and less "move swapping", No photo gallery(sorry, boon, I know you love your face!), more movie interview unlockables(like the ones in Deception, but more), Strong moves=slow, Fast=weak, custom combos, flexible context moves, different throws from different sides, no tracking, throw combos, combos blending seamlessly into throws, vice versa, context specific, super timed, critical damage, in-round "Lethalities"(Chrome, this is a great idea!) in addition to the two end of round Fatalities, returning Klassic Fatalities, in addition to new ones, Klassic stages(subway), Death Traps(I love 'em- subway!), unlockable moves list(you have to work for your moves)... And stuff!


Make your own list now!



On a different note; don't you think it's ironic that the game was called; "Deception"

That idea I like. Kinda like the ultimate combos in Killer Instinct.

Ah got damn..Versey has to lay down the law again...I want everyone to please take some time aside and read this post very carefully and try not to be a fool when responding to it.

Sub-Zero-13, I cannot blame you for not understanding where we are coming from. You lack any fighting game knowledge outside of combos,specials and all that other stuff Ed Boons feeds you. Trust me when I say I am near positive I know more about the MK storyline, it's myhtology, it's move,etc than you will ever know, but the difference between me and you is that I won't take whatever Ed Boon gives out and shut my mouth and devour.

Like Second Gen said earlier, lets say my Indiana Pacers finished the season 20-62. Do you expect me and the millions of Pacer fans to just sit there and say with a blank look and a big smile on our faces and say "HEY ITS PACER BASKETBALL BABY! IF YOU DONT LIKE THE MANAGEMENT AND THE WAY LOSING IS BEING HANDLED THAN GO AHEAD AND LIKE THE PISTONS! WE ARE TRUE FANS!". No, that's not being a true fan. That's being an ignorant,retarded, blinded fan who is a tool and will take anything as long as it has cool costumes,extras and a great story(equivlant to great looking jerseys, and wonderfully built arena and the best hot dogs).

We go to this site because we care about the well being of the game. While we're all geeks in some way or another, we all have some sort of...life. We don't just come here to annoy you "true fans" or any of that shit. We state our opinion because the fact of the matter is that we have more knowledge about fighters and would love MK to become something truly epic. It ALREADY HAS a great,deep,rich story. Some of the most compelling and coolest characters in video games(not just the fighting genre), really cool extras like puzzle combat and chess(lets not forget how great that would be with legit gameplay) and interesting and creative fatalities. Whether some of you "true fans" would like to admit or not, this is what you love about MK the most, I know that's the case for me. The mythology, the comics, the action figures, the movies,etc. This is what makes Mortal Kombat Mortal Kombat, because lets face it..without it MK would have no identity for it's gameplay is barebones and irrelevant in the big perspective of the fighting game scene.

"True fans" say they play for fun and that games are meant to be fun. Let me say something that most people who know me already know..I am a huge Sub-Zero fan. I play him in MK1,MK2,MK3,UMK3,MKT,MK4,MKDA,MKD..whatever the game..I use him. Now, Sub-Zero-13, I know you don't know this because again..you lack any knowledge of fighters outside of what you're spoon fed, but Sub-Zero is technically a horrible character gameplay wise in MKD. In fact, he sucked in MKDA too. He was mediocre in MK4. I am regarded as the best(or atleast one of the best) Sub-Zero players online in MKD. Let me just say now that it is NOT FUN getting destroyed by Dairou. Dairou's special move the tombstone drop comes out in about 14 frames. Do you know how fast that is Sub-Zero-Fan-13? That's about as fast a punch being thrown. It is unblockable. Dairou also has a fire ball that comes out fairly fast. The only way to avoid the unblockable tombstone drop is by jumping over it. If you decide to do this and the Dairou player does his fire ball you will be hit. Not only that, but if they see you jumping in he can use his weapon and uppercut u away, sending you far back and letting him continue to 50/50 between tombstone drop and fire ball. Even if you manage to get close, he can throw you..sending you far back so he can continue his keep away game. Also, once the tombstone drop hits Dairou can combo you while you are in the air with weapon stance: 1,1,f+3 which plants you down allowing him to walk up and make you guess between ducking and standing. Guess wrong and you're taking damage. Guess right and you'rer still not safe because guess what? He can just tombstone drop you again..afterall..it's UNBLOCKABLE AND SUPER FAST! WHAT THE FUCK? Not to mention if you actually manage to close to him all he has to do is teleport, and bam, distance again. What does Sub-Zero have to fight this? Nothing. Sub-Zero vs Dairou is actually one of the most lopsided matches in all of MK. I have the best Sub-Zero and M2dave has the best Dairou..I can't beat him once. I may get a round if everything goes perfectly, but outside of that the match is pretty much impossible. That isn't fun to me..........

Bo Rai Cho is even better than Dairou is. He has a move in his weapon stance(forward+x) that hits mid meaning you cannot duck it, and if it hits Bo Rai Cho can walk up to you and have a GURANTEED THROW. You cannot duck after foward+x hits. To make matters worse, after Sub-Zero gets hit by foward+x,throw, Bo Rai Cho can walk up and for some reason BEYOND ME, testers didn't seem to fish out that BRC can use his back+square attack afterwards and you CANNOT block it. Why? I have no idea. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to, but you can't. back+square, because I am sure you don't know, bounces Sub-Zero into the air allowing Bo Rai Cho to combo Sub-Zero in the air and the only option Sub-Zero has to combo breaker. There goes a quarter of his bar that is essentially inescapeable. Lets say the Bo Rai Cho player walks up after the throw and expects you to try and block the back+square(even though you can't). He can walk up,stand there like he's going to attack, see you block, and puke. Now you're stunned and he can walk up and continue the whole process again. Not to mention the INSANE range of foward+x, which actually hits sometimes when it's NOT EVEN TOUCHING THE OPPONENT Fun? Not to me.

I can tell you now that I am a great player. It's not arrogance or being boastful, but I know I am good. I know I have the "essentials"(what little essentials it takes) to play this horribly done game, but no matter how good I may be, if the person I am facing is of equal skill(and worse even) and I use Sub-Zero and they use Bo Rai Cho..99 out of 100 times I will lose. This is fact..there is no way around it. He is too overpowering and Sub-Zero is too weak to be able to compete no matter how good I may be. The game is hell for people like myself who like to stay dedicated/in touch with their roots and their favorite characters.

I know you don't know this, and mind you all that I am not just talking to Sub_Zero_Fan(sorry if I spell your name incorrectly), but rather to all the "true fans" who say we're being annoying and not making any sense. But anyway, it is considered a sin in ANY FIGHTING game to have a move that is 14 frames and unblockable. That's what we gamers call broken: not fair, retarded, unbalanced. No tester should allow throws to be guaranteed at any point in the game, especially since throws dont have any escapes. Still convinced we're mindless and have no idea what we're talking about? Keep reading my friends, and maybe you'll realize that it's not us who needs to take a look in the mirror.

Noob-Smoke...ahh the coolest of concepts...butchered by brokeness,horrible testing and careless gameplay design. First I just wanna say outside of corner raping that Noob Saibout is completely useless and isn't neccessary to win with. I am SURE m2dave and other great players will back me up on that. Now, Smoke is back..awesome right? I sure was happy. Smoke is my second favorite character in Mortal Kombat, and I was so excited to be able to find out his story and his cool new costumes. Of course, I didn't get too excited about his gameplay since I knew Ed Boon and family would find some way to totally fuck him up..wait..what's this? YES! YES THEY DID! Now, I am sure some of you don't know what an infinite is outside of us talking about how stupid it is all the time. An infinite is a series of moves that cannot be escaped and is normally a repeated pattern. The player continues to do the infinite until your health is gone. Now let's say I am playing BNR. Extremely good player..in my opinion the best Noob Smoke player online. Now let's say it's a battle of pure reflexes and set ups. I bested him and I have him dead..he has %1 health left and I have a full bar..20 seconds left on the clock. Now let's say he uses his stinky cloud once near a corner and I eat it. He then jumps over my head, walks me closer to the wall and does down+square,throw,down+square,throw over and over again until I die. Well, gee, I just lost because of a simple infinite that I can literally teach to my 10 year old cousin in 2 minutes. Is that fun? Is it fun having the game in your hands practically losing because of one mistake? That's just one infinite by the way. If I actually told you some of the other infinites in this game you would cry along with us and scream "WHO THE FUCK TESTED THIS GAME?", but sadly, you lack the knowledge that we do. You can't see the black light of excrement that is MKD's severed gameplay.

You all can tell us whatever you want. You can tell us that we're not true fans and that if we don't like it that we don't have to play the game, but the bottom line is this..and read this very carefully and acknowledge the truth... We know more about these kind of things than you all do. We're not complaining to be complaining. We're complaining for hope. Hope that Ed Boon will read these posts from angry fans and realize that all is not right in the world of Mortal Kombat. When it all comes down to it, the simple fact of the matter is that WE ARE RIGHT, AND YOU ALLl ARE WRONG. For even if MK didn't have throws escapes(which it needs),frame advantage(which it needs),move properties(which it needs),ground game/oki(which it needs),better animation(which it needs) and all these others things, they could atleast make sure that things such as simple infinites and times where you simply cannot block are not in the game. There is no excuse for these flaws whether you moronic fans would like to admit it or not. There is no reason why I should be able to d+1,throw,d+1,throw you to death and you not having anyway to get out of it. If believe this is ok then I have news for you(and this is not directed at anyone, mods), you are a fucking imbecile and have no right discussing this with people who are actually in the know.

I'd also like to point out one more thing. People who say Tekken,Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, Super Smash Bros(yes, it is a fighter, and frankly, a better fighter than MK4/MKDA/MKD), Dead Or Alive, King Of Fighters, Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Samurai Showdown,etc suck should really check themselves before they end up looking like a fool. There is NOTHING wrong with not liking any of those franchises. I can't stand KOF and I'm not a huge Samurai Showdown fan either, but make sure you know enough about the game before you go on to state that you don't like it. Saying things like.....

1. "Tekken/Soul Calibur/Doa/ETC is too slow for me. I like MK's quickness"
2. "Tekken/Soul Calibur/Doa/ETC doesn't have enough gore. they need fatalities"

3. "Tekken/Soul Calibur/Doa/ETC doesn't have cool characters"

makes you look like a stark raving, idiotic fag monster. We're not talking about cosmetics. If we were, in my opinion, Mortal Kombat rules all. I don't care what anyone says, no hadouken or electric wind god fist is touching Sub's spine rip or Kung Lao's hat slice. Characters like Ryu,Chun Li and Ken can't touch characters like Shang Tsung, Raiden and Ermac in my opinion, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the gameplay, and that, my friends, is where MK completely falls apart and loses to all competetion whether you like it or not. You know it's a sad, sad day when it's actually a fact that Bloody Roar has a better gameplay engine than your game. Ed boon might need to take a look in the mirror too.

Mortal Kombat 7 is closer than we all think folks. I have managed to get a little info on it, and it should be out sometime next year. It more than likely will NOT be on the next generation consoles like we think. It is not too late for fans to be enlightened as to what needs to be done. Please, forget this madness. Fatalities will ALWAYS be there. New features and modes will ALWAYS be there. No need to waste too much time requesting these things. Please put your minds on what really matters, making sure MK is a FUN AND COMPETITIVE GAME TO PLAY, and we're the ones who needs to make sure he knows this.

Thank you for your time guys, and if people still don't understand I encourage you all to come and play us online. Im not as good with the cheese as M2dave and other top tier character users are since I use Sub-Zero predominantly, but I guarantee I can give 99% of you guys who posted here nightmares playing my Noob Smoke. My handles are Versa,DM-Versa and Vrsatile. If I infinite you please don't be mad..I am just trying to point out to you why MK's gameplay is trash. I normally don't. PM me if you're interested in facing me.

I didn't know we called it a truce guys..cool. If you would like to post ideas..please do NOT do it here. There's a topic by my good friend TonyTheTiger on the Future MK Games Board stickied at the very top where we'd love to hear your contributions.

OHH,don't everyone at once aim a gun at me lol,please,ignorance,say some of this shit on the xbox forums and people will laugh at you M2Dave,and True king.First of all who ever said that i complain is a lying p.o.s.Please i want the both of you to go onto the xbox forums and ask anyone,i mean ANYONE if i ever complained about any matches.Go a head please.You see,you're either pulling shit out of your ass or someone enjoys talking shit about me.Either way,it's not true.

And it's funny Dave,you call me ignorant and arrogant yet here's a guy already owning me in Deception,yet i never played him.LOL,AAAAAAHHHHH,gotta love the arrogance people.You never played me kid,so you don';t know.You live in this fucking fantasy world that because you're from the PS 2 oooooohhhhhhhh,the Ps 2 players are automatically better than xbox players lol.I love it,i really do,you think you have faced every good xbox player???LOL...HARDLY pal.There are several guys that are good in this game besides me,BNR,Dom,Kiler,Groy,Alexei,Malone and so forth.They don't even post or come on here to MKonline.Shows how much you know.So,what you think you're hot shit now because you beat up BNR a little??please,own every single xbox player 50-1 like you say,then i'll be impressed.I shouldn't even play you because of your cocky,conceited know it all attitude.Aldagod is the best Ps2 player that i have played so far.


I also love it how random people i have never talked to before on here in this forum think i was born yesterday,ignorant etc.I just like Mk more,bottom line.Seriously,in America,MK is a top fighter,i don't give two shits what anyone thinks,it's a fact.I already know that Japan hates MK and just about every other american game lol.Lets see,no halo players in Japan???LOL....right.I care about what happens here in the USA where i live,i don;t care about the rest of the world,places where people get off on animated porn lol.Don't care,don't live there.Every single arcade that i have played in in my life that had tekken or MK,it was a no brainer as to which one had more people on it.It wasn't tekken.Thats what i saw when ever i played there,thats all i'm saying.You guys are giving me all of these stats,that are different than others,which leaves me to believe that it's all BS.Send me a direct link to state that Tekken has sold more or MK or any other game,and i'll believe it.


Oh,dave man,if you only knew how most of the xbox players really feel about you.

And,Dave,i have an question for you,you hate Deception so much,yet you play it???Do you typically love to play all things you hate???LOL,ooohhhh then i feel sorry for ..........nevermind lol.

I don't care dave talk all the shit you want about me,typically players that trash talk to me get the snot beat out of them.It's only makes me more angry and focused.

Seriously,in America,MK is a top fighter,i don't give two shits what anyone thinks,it's a fact.

Fact?Maybe in your little imaginary world.MK hasn't had any serious tournaments since UMK:3.It mostly appeals to hardcore fans and casual gamers who come and go.Take a look at the games that will be at Evo2k5;those are games that are played all over the world and are much more famous than MK:D will ever be.

I won't get off-topic,so I won't comment how much I will own you.There will be an extra thread just for that.

http://mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=51762

LOL,keep dreaming Dave.

Again you think everything revolves around tourneys and nothing but.You really need to look outside the box.There are so many other factors that make a video game popular,guess what if all games were made for just tournaments,then i guess alot of games are really bad in your imagination.

You know you seriously deserve 10 straight infinite master matches with StylesIV,lol...that would be fun to watch.

*bets money MKF didn't read my post*

*bets more money MKF has an IQ of under 100*

I hope some of you guys honestly read my post. It's insightful and all 100% true.

Ok, let me settle this right now. You said if you saw evidence about sales figures you'd believe it? Well here's your evidence.

Tekken sales figures
Click Here

Excerpt: Sales of the TEKKEN franchise has surpassed 20 million units worldwide.

That's adding up the sales of these games:

GBA
Tekken Advance
PS
Tekken
Tekken 2
Tekken 3
PS2
Tekken 4
Tekken Tag Tournament
Tekken 5

MK sales figures
Click Here

Excerpt: Historically, the Mortal Kombat series is one of the best-selling videogame franchises of all time with more than 20 million home games sold.

That covers up to Deadly Alliance. Wanna know how Deception factors in?
Click Here

RayRokka is a former Midway employee who worked on Deadly Alliance. Here's what he had to say:

Excerpt: MKD has yet to break the 200,000 mark for PS2 and X Box and GCN sales are lower than that.

MKD has yet to reach the million mark.

That's from back in March but it's probably safe to say it hasn't changed much in the last four months.

Here's the kicker. While Tekken only needed 7 games to break 20 million, MK needed:

32X
Mortal Kombat II
AMI
Mortal Kombat II
DC
Mortal Kombat Gold
GB
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat I & II
Mortal Kombat II
GBA
Mortal Kombat Advance
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Mortal Kombat: Tournament Edition
GBC
Mortal Kombat 4
GCOM
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
GEN
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat II
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
GG
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat II
MOBILE
Mortal Kombat
N64
Mortal Kombat 4
Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
PC
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat 4
Mortal Kombat II
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
PS
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat 4
Mortal Kombat II
Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero
Mortal Kombat Special Forces
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
PS2
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Mortal Kombat: Deception
SAT
Mortal Kombat II
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
SCD
Mortal Kombat
SMS
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat II
XBOX
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Mortal Kombat: Deception
GCN
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Mortal Kombat: Deception

So, yeah, even if you count the sales figures for the two series as even at a 20 million estimate, you still need to factor in the fact that the recent Tekkens have sold a lot more than the recent MKs even though Tekken is only on one console while the two recent MKs have been across three.

Hey, TTT, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those sales figures for the Tekken series does NOT include Tekken 5 yet. So that's 20+ million for Tekken 1-4 and Tag.

Can you find any sales figs for 5? I'm having a bitch of a time.

lmao...did one person even read what I said? that's the biggest post ive ever made.

mkflegend you must be a terrible retail salesmen, considering you said MK is the top fighter in america and Tekken 5 alone prolly outsold MK's pervious 3 games, thats also not to mention Soul Caliber, Virtua Fighter, DOA, hell even Street Fighter games more than likley outsold MK. I know i dont have the staticts to back it up but face the facts man MK is not on top anymore, it should be, but its not. And thats not disrespecting MK in any way, I wish it were on top but the reallity is its not, and you say others live in a fantasy world. Oh and Versatile I read your post, good shit man.

Guess it's a matter of poinion. See, I think that the game is awesome. Trust me, I play other games, I played Tekken and Soul Calibur 2, but the thing is, MKD is so much more. I guess Puzzle Kombat, Chess Kombat and Konquest contribute, but I know that unlike Tekken, With MK I can have hours of fun and not get bored. The only fun thing I liked about Tekken 4 is unlocking the ending cinematics. I haven't played 5, but that's not the point. The point is, I think that MKD is an awesome game. It's very enjoyable, and I think that's all that defines a good game. It's not the polygon level, or the fighting system, it's the amount of fun you have playing the game.

awww hold on Versatile i'll have a look for you now.


EDIT: That was execellent, and a lot more insightive then the drool MKFLegend wrote under it.

He probably doesn't understand most of your post either, but that doesn't stop him and his vague nonsense posts in which he can't back-up a word he says, unfortunately.

You're missing the point. Deception being broken is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact. The game needs to be fixed. Just because you have fun playing it doesn't make it a good game. Picture Super Mario Bros. without the ability to jump. That's what Deception is.

Example: What is the purpose of the side-step? To make your opponents attacks miss you. Well guess what? The side-step in Deception is irrelevent. It doesn't exist. How can this be you ask? Universal tracking, an annoying little glitch that allows any combo in the game to track a side-stepper and hit him anyway, even if he moved out of the way. That is only one example of broken gameplay.

Another example is the lack of a wake-up game. A wake-up game is when a player who has been knocked down has the option of hitting his opponent with a quick, very low damage attack in order to disrupt an opponent who may have been rushing in while he was on the ground. With this simple mechanic alone, most (or at least some) of the 50/50 problems would be solved.

But instead, all Deception has are tech -rolls that hardly avoid anything anyway thanks to what? Yup, you guessed it, UNIVERSAL TRACKING!! YAY! Oh, and let's not forget auto-recover, which is the closest this game has to a real wake-up game, which allows a player who has been knocked down to get back up right away. But guess what? Auto-recover is a glitch, too! It was never supposed to be there.

And let's not forget the 30+ infinite combos that are incredibly easy to do. The fact that this game is broken is not disputable. It is not opinion. It is fact. The sky is blue, and this game is broken.

It is not unreasonable to ask that these things be fixed, nor is it unreasonable to ask for just a *bit* more depth in the gameplay.

And I don't really give a shit if you played Tekken, and Soul Caliber, and whatever the fuck else and you didn't like it. I don't care. Is that supposed to be your argument against making MK better? Because you don't like Tekken?

You need to read HDTran's stickied thread and attempt to understand it. I repeat: DON'T JUST READ IT, ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS. A 3D fighting game needs frame advantage/disadvantage, move properties, a wake-up game, and a decent parry or reversal system. When it comes to 3D fighters, these things are not some kind of exotic luxury. They are necessary to make a balanced fighter. That is not opinion, it is fact. The sky is blue, goddammit!

That honestly saddens me. It would have been a great joke post though.




What you don't understand with this statement is that you can be a fan of a series and still dislike a game or even several games. I'm a tekken fan but I'll tell you that tekken 1,2 and 4 weren't that great IMO. Now the thing is namco always listens to the fans ont he fansites that bitch about the gameplay. Tekken 4 sucked the fans spoke up and so they came out with tekken 5 which is quite probably the best tekken in the series. Very few flaws.





Well the problem is that everybody in this thread is talking specifically about the gameplay/engine. What you're talking about are extras. You're talking about minigames and extra features and we're all talking about the game engine. The problem is this is a FIGHTING GAME not a variety game. If this were mario party it might be valid all the extras but it's a fighting game, or at least claims to be. As such it has to live up to fighting game standards to be judged as bad, average, or good. In this case the game is a BAD FIGHTING GAME. You can't argue this or say it's a matter of opinion. You can say you enjoy the extras or that you think it's fun but it's still a bad fighting game no matter how you look at it.




Only thing I recall offhand is the 70k units in february with a release date of feb 25th thats nothing short of amazing. I've never seen any worldwide numbers for 5 though.



I read it. Sub zero sucks is the gist of what you said. :P

No, it was about how MK's gameplay is shit for the most part.

Comparing Tekken to Mk:- What would happen if you had an unaltered game of Tekken vs Mk, in which the Tekken damage percentages were factored to the Mortal Kombat health bar length, and the moves from both games were kept exactly the same as they originally were in their respective franchises?
I am not talking about this as a real game; because it would be krap! Let's imagine that you could swap a Tekken Character into MK and yet, keep all his moves and even physics the same. Then, imagine Scorpion possessing MK features, such as Universal Tracking, and Auto Recover...
Now, you pit Jin Kazama against Scorpion, utilizing the above statistics; who would win and more importantly, how would each Character fare against each other, in terms of Scorpion, say... Overcoming Jin's wake-up moves, or what chance would Jin have if Scorpion has Universal Tracking?
I'm not starting a "game", or trying to start a; "Tekken/MK Character is better!" war, I'm asking which Character do you think would win, when you place them in the same game yet, both still possessing the specific properties of their initial games? Understand?

Only experts on frame advantage and tracking... etc, need apply.

Sorry, but nobody here is an expert on those two topics. They may know what they are and how they work, but that doesn't make them an expert. Actually having experience in what goes into programming those two aspects of a fighting game could maybe make you an expert, but I highly doubt there's anyone here who has that under their belt.

Naw it was about sub zero sucking now just admit it :P



Well honestly there are a couple problems with that comparison. If you assume that both games keep their characteristics you run into issues such as throws in theory jin should be able to escape scorpion's throw but scorpion couldn't escape jin's. Universal tracking would pose a problem for jin however jin has far more wakeup options and movement options than scorpion does. Though it does depend somewhat on which jin you mean. If it's tekken 5 jin then he probably loses depending on how man frames the sword is for scorpion. If you were to compare say tekken 5 nina or steve then scorpion has no shot his moves are too slow for them to be effective against steve or nina and they are far too safe. One knockdown and the game is over for scorpion regardless of who he faces, jin included. He is forced to guess between a mid hit or a guaranteed throw but when he knocks down a tekken character they are able to roll to the side forward backward or lay there. Tekken's tech roll's in theory should work as well.


Just side comment. Awhile back somebody stated that these threads only are fueled by myself and they would be fine if I wasn't here. I made the claim that were I to not post that others would step up and it would be just as bad if not worse. I feel vindicated now.

Yeah, I can't find anything either. It seems Namco hasn't made any official announcements yet. All we've got is the 70,000 for the month of February that 1TruKing has mentioned on occasion. That number really is ludicrously high. I don't think the GCN version of Deception has sold that many in the months it's been available. So it's no stretch to assume Tekken 5 has far exceeded Deception's total sales across all three consoles.

So that saddens you, huh? You know what saddens me? The fact that you can't understand something as simple as what I'm trying to say saddens me.

I thought someone like you would be intelligent enough to understand, but apparently you can't. Why you are showing such disrespect to me, I don't understand.

Probably because you have opinions he/she doesn't agree with. So now you're probably ignorant, moronic, etc., etc. just like those who think MKD is a good game, like myself.

Well, I like MKD, but I do feel that MK's fighting engine needs a lot of improvements. I've said this more than once in this thread.

As for some of my more recent posts in here, I DO think that Asuka and Craig suck.

Yes, I know this thread is in regards to MK's gameplay, and I like I said, I feel that it needs to improve.

*sighs*