who whould win in a real fight?

is that a threat?

Check, stop bitching about something you can't help. This honor system shit is stupid. If you don't like what the game offers then don't play it. Go play UMK3 where throws are easily avoidable if it bothers you that much. Otherwise what Konqrr just said is right.

Versatile stop bitching about what others think is wrong in the game, this honor system u have with your segregated bunch of friends here doesn't help, ( at least u said something ) no offense, noone calls me stupid, better yet, that alone, and not expect me to say something like fuck you, yet im wrong again, ( segregated ) who do any of you think you are? we are all the same here, stop trying to be bigger than everyone else and dont tell me to go play UMK3 cuz its just as bad, all im telling you is that MY WHOLE LIFE, i played no throws, high level, in jersey, from the freehold mall to willowbrook! and its kinda hard to reverse a lifetime of honor for a bunch of scrubs. simply put, beat me at my own game, then ill give you respect as the better player, you didn't invent your style,i did, thats the difference.
still waiting on all you

Dude wtf are you talking about? You're the scrub for not being able to play the game the way the game is supposed to be played. If there's anything in a game that's usable and works you're supposed to use it..ESPECIALLY in MK. Especially online man...what did you expect? Everyone to be friendly and play no throw NS? There is no real honor system at the highest level of play. Sometimes you'll get two tight players who wont use Bo against each other, but they're still going to use the broke shit with other characters. Basically if you're not going to play the game at the highest efficiency level, then just don't bother. I'm not going to go and play VF4 without throwing just because I think it's just...no, I just wont play VF4 at all.
Don't sweat this cat talking shit Kelly.

I really can't understand why so many of todays youth are threatened by throws. How did this crazy imaginary honor system get resurrected from the early 90's? Back then there was no concept of what the throw was truely used for. Check, just imagine if there were no throws in fighting games and your opponent could just block all day without worry. Guess what would happen, thats right he would just chip away at your health and let the time run out and win the game. That would piss you off big time, there is a counter for everything in a good fighting game:
If you atack, I can block. (thats one counter)
If you block my attacks, I can throw you to break your guard
(thats the other counter).
If your opponent is abusing the throws then you must not be really playing by reaction to what he is trying to do to you. You are allowing it to happen in frustration thinking that your opponent is skilless because he is thowing you.
Who's fault is that? You better add the throw to your game plan and welcome yourself to a new way of playing the game. Any tournament player would love to have you as thrier opponent because they would not have to fear the throw, but you would. I couldn't imagine watching a 3rd Strike or Tekken tournament without throws, everything would be parried and the matches would be tedious. Take my advice and improve your mind game with a throw or two or even three when your good enough because actually attempting a throw is risky business.
Peace

01. Shujinko - Infinite One : Two and 102%
02. Bo' Rai Cho - Infinite and 97%
03. Tanya - Infinite and 88%
04. Darrius - Infinite and 77%
05. Ashrah - Infinite One : Two : Three and 72%
06. Noob-Smoke - Infinite One : Two : Three : Four and 71%
07. Havik - Infinite and 69%
08. Liu Kang - Infinite and 54%
09. Hotaru - Infinite One : Two : Three and 47%
10. Nightwolf - Infinite One : Two and 46%
11. Li Mei - 74%
12. Kabal - 63%
13. Sindel - 62%
14. Scorpion - 61%
15. Kira - 60%
16. Ermac - 58%
17. Baraka - 57%
18. Jade - 57%
19. Kobra - 54%
20. Sub-Zero - 54%
21. Raiden - 51%
22. Kenshi - 50%
23. Mileena - 45%
24. Dairou - 43%

Um... Konqrr... Regarding that Nightwolf infinate...
Does that mean anyone who has a planting launcher can do that?
That's not cool, LOL!

Yes Mr. S...planting launcher = infinite or free throw depending on character...

Great combos,Konqrr.Yes,this game is just way too broken.This game has like 20+ infinite combos.
Speaking of infinite combos,BRC may have another one.Try:
Throw, b+1, b+2, walk under,and Throw (repeat).

No, the b+2 is the 3rd popup (throw, b+1 are the first two)...so the combo ends. But it is another guaranteed free throw using it as Sumo 12cs3cs, b+2, walk under, throw... I'll experiment more...maybe in the corner it can be an infinite...

yeah, my poor sindel cant even get a plant infinate..

this is what i loved about mk4, there were no throws because it was all about the ice clone, that system worked best for me, and all other players i knew, i guess im stuck in those times, i guess i feel if ur good enough, u dont need throws, but thanks for the positive feedback
Fun With Scorpion ( Corner Combos )
i know you probably wont try these first 2 because theyre blockable, but thats why its fun, ( btw, i played Molson for the 1st time, and one of my blockable ones worked, hehe )
Hapkido:
5 hits
deep jump kick, 3, B+1, cs + B+2 = 34%
the thing with this is if u get off the B+2 quick enough, it connects! ( if u dont block ) weird, only works in the corner, add hellfire for 40%
5 hits plus
deep jump kick, 3, B+1, 4, U+4 = 32%
after that u can do B+1, B+1, cs, B+1, hellfire for 24%
or
B+1, B+1, cs, B+2, cs, F+1 for 25% ( not easy )
has to be in corner, note how fast that first 4 is, usually doesn't connect.
more corner stuff
Hapkido
4 hits
deep jump kick, 2, D+4, cs + B+2 = 32%
these are just show off combos, use them to your advantage at will
Mugai Ryu
5 hits
F+1, cs, B+1, B+1, cs, B+2, cs + F+2 = 35%
6 hits
F+1, cs, 2, 3, cs, B+2, cs + F+2 = 33%
8 hits
deep jump kick + U+2, cs + 2, 2, cs, 1, 3, 3, cs, hellfire = 47%
this one is tricky, u gotta be almost to the corner and hit the deep jumper real late. no delay except for deep jump kick and a very very slight delay for U+2 . distance is the key to this one. and timing the U+2.
other stuff ( corner )
Mugai Ryu
5 hits
deep jump kick, F+1, cs, B+1, cs, B+2, cs, F+2 = 36%
4 hits
F+1, cs + 2, D+4, hellfire = 26% ( i think u can hellfire before they hit the ground from D+4 )
Hapkido
14 hits
deep jump kick, spear, 2, 3, U+4, B+1, 2, 2, cs, 1, 3, 3, cs, hellfire =54%
4 hits
deep jump kick, 2, B+1, cs + B+2 = 36%
10 hits
deep jump kick, spear, 2, 3, U+4, B+1, cs, B+2, cs + F+2 = 45%
man, i had a shitload of others im tryin to remember, just so many combos, peace

isnt there 2 different throws for each character in mk4???

cant remember.. i think u either brake a limb, or powerbomb them but the opportunity never arose to throw, you'd get froze by either an ice clone or sub's weapon, there was no running in

There were breakers and throws on MK4. Both of these were blockable but it was fun watching people complain about getting hit with a breaker over and over till it said max damage simply because they were too ignorant to learn how to block throws.

You know thats a pretty ignorant statement. I bet I could land a throw on you in mk 4 and even beat your sub zero and I never played the game seriously. MK 4 was far too horrid to even consider playing. It's the only one I never bought on the home systems because it was that bad but you could still land throws in it.

UMK3 is a bad example there was a way to guarantee a throw to land on somebody even if they were blocking. It wouldn't work against the top level players because it requires a cross up attack to be performed and a top level player will run under and uppercut you everytime your feet leave the ground on umk3.

Normally I would agree with you but I think he's actually ignorant and not stupid. Ignorance can, in theory, be corrected however if you are just plain stupid you're pretty much screwed. I could post some of the domination/sirlin links and see if he gets it.

ur still missing my point, every person i played against didn't throw regardless, how you gonna throw when im in the air pulling off ice clones and jump kicking any remotely close chance u are to me or thinking of throwing period? and max damage was good, but as long as i kept jumping back there was no way u could have thrown me anyway and if you tried to run while i was in the air, ice clone, on the ground, all subs weapon. ( back low punch i believe ) whatever call me ignorant, but to flat out call someone stupid over a video game, thats some evil shit. blatant, and ignorance is not such a bad word for him, but, truking, that was probably the nicest thing u ever said to me, so props for being alot more positive towards members.
to all: dont being that negativity to these boards, say im a hypocrite, all i criticized was the game. seriously, take away free throws from the equation and your combos are garbage, ( not you, your combos ) infinites, they all involve the same thing, you must be crazy to think this wont be fixed in the coming games, all i want is an for you to admit, you cant beat me without throws. unless ur dairou. ( who i just started last nite, my block into tombstone is nasty ) admit you have to walk up to me and throw, or at least imply u might, to as mastermalone said, "throw me off my guard" its an area of the game that i dont think your sirlin links could help me with, as long as they are, ( i read about half way, and it was just saying the same thing in different words ) and again i dont feel ignorant, i feel lucky, to have been able to play people who didn't abuse the only thing wrong with the game, eliminate throws, then show me what u got

again, i say we settle this online..

Thats the thing though saying you can't beat me without using throws doesn't really prove anything. Thats like me saying just admit you can't beat me without using block. It limits something that was 100% undoubtebly inteded to be in the game. Throws are in fighting games to make gameplay deeper. Even deception with it's half-assed system is deeper because of throws. Without throws the game would be horrific. People could just block all day and the first person to get blocked loses the game. The fact is throws are needed in 3d games and without them the game would be horrible. If you can't adjust thats all you but don't limit others abilities because they can adjust to it.
Trust me throws isn't even close to being the biggest thing wrong with the game. Remove throws and the game isn't even good enough to make fun of.

1TruKing~i was being a wise ass..

I know I just like to talk about the breakers on MK 4. It's the only part of the game I liked. I also loved maximum damage being set off by it despite it not even being close to a real combo.

well, a couple things
beat u without using block i could do in mkda
gameplay deeper? what about free throws? intended?
first person to get blocked loses? ( im lost with that statement, do u mean from rushes? you get pushed back from combos, if youre talking cheap, then yea, but how bout shutting off the clock? ) what about 50/50 games? you block high, i hit low, vice versa, i dunno man, i really feel your wrong, and in mk4, just let me know when..
again, about throws,show me u dont need them to win, against me, the ability to adapt on the spot in a match is not a good way to learn, u have to know what ur doing before every match. have a teacher. thats how i learned in the arcade luckily enough, it just throws u off your game and what ur used to playing, everywhere i went, it was the same, so all u players keep that in mind that theyre some who did play throwing disabled, regardless what u may think about them now, and vice versa, in other words dont be a smartass online with people u dont know, its a challenge truking to beat me without them, and any player, it will only make other parts of your game improve, and the only way it wont is by people abusing the system more and more, i feel your guys way is alot less inviting into the mk world, and a style that is basically cloned, not created, as i was saying to versatile. remove throws i can guarentee a win, thats a big difference to me. it may be a little more boring, but depends on the person, i know umk3 was like that, everything blocked, and after a while u just get sick of it and start getting hit, its patience i guess, peace for now, and thanks again for more positive shit, i misjudged you truking, i apoligize for that, respect

Free throws are a part of a lot of games. It's not unusual and often intended however real fighting games have throw escapes to make it less devastating example tekken 3 king 2,1,2,1,f,hcf1 100% guaranteed throw it can't be avoided if you get hit by a 2,1 the whole combo is guaranteed unless you escape the throw. You still are not looking at the big picture without throws there is no reason to duck. Not enough low moves worth anything. Can't start a juggle can't do anything but poke no reason for me to duck at all and open myself up to a pop up eventually you will do a mid attack I block and due to the terrible frame advantage on the game I get my combo and I win the game simply because you blocked. There is nothing to force me to duck if there were low juggle starters or power hits maybe but no sorry not worth it. Throws are the only thing that make somebody want to duck it's basicly a low hiting juggle starter for a lot of characters.
Ok If somebody shows you that they can win without using throws which are a part of the game and 100% intended to be in the game then you show them you can win without using block or any attacks. How about you show that you can win without using any low attacks because really whats a throw but a low attack done from standing. You can't block a low attack while standing. See without you being able to throw or do a low attack do you think you can beat dana or m2dave or anybody who has any skill? Asking somebody to beat you without using throws to prove something is just stupid and poorly thought out.
You guarantee a win. Well thats not too hard you are telling somebody they can't use something that is a part of there game to beat you without using that part when you never use that part. If the game didn't have throws you are saying you would be the best player on MK which I honestly doubt is true. You would probably be about the same level but complain about some other aspect of the game and tell people that if they didn't block you would beat them.
UMK3 was a game that had some ways of countering turtling but it was also a great game for turtles. Everybody remembers it being this insane fast paced game I remember watching match after match that was decided by running jabs that were blocked. If umk 3 suffered from the same frame problems that deception does you wouldn't see anything at all happen. The first person to do a dial a combo or even a running jab would lose the game.

more good shit man
well, first off, about king, i happen to know about that or something like it, i know i have attempted it many times, and could never finish, but does that make me a bad player in mk too, or just a bad player period? very true about the low attacks, i know, i used to get killed with them in mkda, ( sonya, raiden, reptile ) but that was it, other than really sonya, i consider myself flawless against any player in that particular one, yet again, it remains to be seen because of the gamecube version, that was the only version i played, ( and yes, i bought a PS2 to go online with MKD, along with DSL, lol ) i said i could beat u without blocks, because of how well i side stepped in mkda, ( if u can, explain to me the difference with that in, seems so much harder to do, true? ) but for gamecube. mkd on ps2? well that was just a nightmare to my whole game, and just slooowed it down terribly, i feel the GC pad, since it was smaller, made easier, more quicker movements, ( espicially sidestepping ) but remains to be seen, that, and my lack of good players around me during then and up mkd's release, it wasn't like the arcade, so i basically taught myself everything in mkda, as well as deception, but only vs the computer, i never realized how much worse i would get through online play, but i never expected this, and to say i could win without any blocks is not true because blocking is all part of it, u could make it where i barely block, but what would that be like in a mk game? in umk3, what would it look like if i let u throw me everytime, youre gonna run up and throw me the whole match? or you gonna back off after one or 2? it still overpowers the incoming combo, if im correct, explain then why the need to put combos in mk3? all u need is run and lp and you can take away any human smoke, even if he teleports, yet all u got to do is disable throws, and voila, u have your game back!!
all im saying is u can still have highlevel gameplay without it, and prove you dont need it, im not sayin eliminate anything else but that.
"Not enough low moves worth anything. Can't start a juggle can't do anything but poke no reason for me to duck at all and open myself up to a pop up eventually you will do a mid attack I block and due to the terrible frame advantage on the game I get my combo and I win the game simply because you blocked. There is nothing to force me to duck if there were low juggle starters or power hits maybe but no sorry not worth it. Throws are the only thing that make somebody want to duck it's basicly a low hiting juggle starter for a lot of characters" - truking
very well put, and of everything u said, was basically what hit home the most, this is definitly where im at, much props
the only thing about it is , u say there is nothing to force you to duck, but what about if your losing? why is it im the one always attacking, what about side stepping? and im talking without the universal tracking? pure skill, can u handle it? ( i know im probably being a hypocrite because i dont really understand it, is it when for example, scorpions 3, B+1, that they come flying at the screen? or is that side stepping quick enough to do so ) and if it is your attack, are you gonna throw because you have more chance of landing it and because the clock is running out? or thru pure skill? i know i get caught bad, enough to make me say things like i do, but why should the match change momentum then if i start taking half your life off, then u throw, and from there its back to normal, or if anything u have the advantage because of my unknowing what to do after being thrown, if u think for a sec, your gonna be thrown, u duck, and get caught BAD! or is it just me, that i cant get react quick enough after the duck to know what to do next, thats some high level gameplay u could help me out with, and start making me see things your way, in mk
"eventually you will do a mid attack I block and due to the terrible frame advantage on the game I get my combo and I win the game simply because you blocked "
i feel that the most
as for umk3 stuff, i agree on that damage off blocks to win, but not from the running in low punch, from blocking smokes pop up or his 4 hit scorpion one, after a couple of those your off 20 percent as opposed to one throw, u run in on me, i teleport, correct? but if u run in throw, i try to teleport, i get thrown, correct? its unbalanced in mk, and i wish u say that, at least, espicially with shujinko, come on, and the walk up game? theres no real strategy behind it, i block high, i get thrown, and this is not arcades where u can actually do something about it.
keep comin with the good shit tho man, props.

Check, after reading everything you said on this thread, I think you're a reasonable person. However, high-level is high-level, nothing is limited at that level because everything is fair. Sure MK is broke and the 50/50s in MK are ridiculous to the point that you blindly guess, you can't really break or escape stuff, but we all expected that from MKD. It's a cheesefest, but to limit your game is wrong. You just need throws for mixup cause like 1truking said, the reward for lows versus the risk for most is just too horrid to try for. Otherwise MKD would be the retarded MKDA that was with universal tracking (another bug where you could make any move track and thus remove sidestep from the game) with its own broken stuff. Sure in other games throws are easily acceptable because there are escapes and/or better/slower animation, but that's really MK's fault , not the player's fault.