I can't say what should be done because I don't know all the facts.

But when I saw those rioter's dragging corpses on the street, and jumping up and down like lunatics, I was disgusted.

I mean, the looked like a bunch of F###ing animals.

It's easy to see that, but I always wonder: what makes them act that way? I am not saying it is justified. But people with extreme actions like that should be heard. Problem is some religous nut steals a plane and blows up a building. Then we go kill his family. They recoupe, kill some of us. And so on. So why not try to meet each other in the middle? Not even to mention we have too many problems at home to even be envolved. Our country's envolvment in the mid east has not protected us- its hurt us. People will say we were on the offense to save lives. First off, it didn't work, many americans have died. Second, it is not their true reason. Our government has taken the sheep and strapped it to our fore heads!

xcarnagex Wrote: My, the callous, selfish ignorance. A HUMAN LIFE IS A HUMAN FUCKING LIFE. Say, does this sound familiar? "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." In the eyes of the United States, every innocent human being has the right to live, whether they live in America or Iraq. If we nuke Middle East just to take their oil, we're infinitely worse than the British government when they controlled the American Colonies. We'd be pissing all over everything this country stands for.

Ditto. Very nicely said. Im tired of Americans getting a bad name. Think before you talk ppl.

I would have to agree with you guys too.

born-again-vampire Wrote: It's easy to see that, but I always wonder: what makes them act that way? I am not saying it is justified. But people with extreme actions like that should be heard. Problem is some religous nut steals a plane and blows up a building. Then we go kill his family. They recoupe, kill some of us. And so on. So why not try to meet each other in the middle? Not even to mention we have too many problems at home to even be envolved. Our country's envolvment in the mid east has not protected us- its hurt us. People will say we were on the offense to save lives. First off, it didn't work, many americans have died. Second, it is not their true reason. Our government has taken the sheep and strapped it to our fore heads!

Once again, you're talking like they think like we do. They don't. The don't want a middle ground, they want the whole field with us either gone or dead. This is what everyone seems to not comprehend. You're not dealing with the country of Iraq, you're not dealing with the country of Afganistan. What you are dealing with are thousands upon thousands of tribes, all with different views and different interpritations of the religion of Islam. I'm going to break it down to it's simplest terms. The ones with the guns and money are the ones you think are "crazy", the poor masses are the ones we want to "save with our western world democracy", but they don't know what that means. what they know is what they grew up with: First comes Allah, then Muhammad, then his decendants, then the holy men, then the ones with the guns, then the men, and all the way at the bottom, women. Democracy does not fit at all with any of that. Which brings me back to what I started off saying: they don't understand the concept of a middle ground, not because they are ignorant savages, but because they can't. Plus, since there are so many different tribes how could anyone be put in charge, they would just kill him and vote for someone from their own tribe. Wash, rinse, repeat. Also for those who think this is all about oil, then you are just as retarded as the war mongers you're acusing. We didn't start this war, we were draged into it. We have been the police of the world, even though it should be the UN's job, but no we get stuck with all the blame and little to no praise. What is sad is what we don't hear about other countries losing their soldiers. It's the shit like Madrid that pisses me off. Not to say it was worse that NYC, but because it shows that they arn't as "stupid" as we thought. They can hurt our allies better than they can hurt us. Before that did you really hear about any other troops dying? I could turn this into an entire page expressing not just the Middle East view of us, but Europe (at least Spain before Madrid, seeing as how I'm an American born decendant of Spain, but that's a different topic).....Let me just wrap it up, this thing isn't going to end for a long long time. We are stuck with it. Could it turn into something bigger? I highly doubt it'll reach WW status, but Vietnam seems more like it. So we can't just leave because it'll get worse, and bombing them all to shit (as reasonable it sounds at the most bleakest moments) is even worse. There are good people out there; naive to how we live, but good none the less. Bombing them all is like saying we should have sent in tanks to LA during the Rodney King riots. It would bring death to tons of innocent lives.

outworld222 Wrote: oh boy, I have a feeling this is just the beggining of a big mess. /me hugs everyone.

/me hugs outworld222.

hehe

First time, ever, that I’ve seen Americans talk about what they are doing wrong, instead of "We're the world power, without us the world would be fucked, we are the best, we are the saviours of the world, saviours of Iraq". Really, people, nice, very nice. Till this day I thought talking with Americans about war and politics was impossible. Too many times I’ve had fights over this. But I'm really amazed and I don't have anything to add to this really. I feel almost proud. You're all great people