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posted08/01/2004 07:30 PM (UTC)by
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NovaStarr
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TemperaryUserName Wrote: ...the best solution is set an example.
Show some tolerance. Be a fucking leader.

1337...there is no 1337 none of us can be 1337 because we are all the same, we are all human. The sooner we realize that, the better off we'll be.

My MKO Profile Site

Member Since
02/10/2003 07:17 PM (UTC)
I want to state some things that I have been feeling for a long time, and I think that many others feel it as well. I have been afraid to express myself on this as I know that technically this is Scott and CC's site, and they are allowed to do what they please with it. While I know, that technically I have no rights here, I feel a strong necessity to express my current feelings about the happenings on MKO, regardless of what the consequences might be, because it simply needs to be said.

I feel that for that past year or so, MKO has been on a downward slope. I'm not just referring to the onslaught of n00bs. We have endured that before with the coming of MK4, MKDA, and now we go through it again with MKD. It is nothing new, and we can survive through it again. There will always be drama on the boards, I'm quite used to that, and being able to handle issues as a community is something that I have grown to love about this place.

But I may as well tackle the thing that I fear most to speak about...

The moderation on this site has declined dramatically. From the viewpoint of many members, it feels as if only Crow is there. Alone he seems to be fighting the wave of n00bs, alone he offers us help, provides new things for us to do as proven through his fanart chart and his revival of #mktrivia and his desire to integrate it as a part of MKO. He seems to show most that he understands how we feel.

Don't misunderstand me. I love and appreciate the mods here. You guys give us wonderful news, and MKD updates. But, I miss having your support. It feels like you are no longer down here with us, 'the little people'. It no longer feels like we have any backing in fighting the plague of unruly behaviour, the idiotic bumping of threads that has been increasing daily, flame wars sparking in every corner, pleas for help in the chaos that is, and will be as MKD draws closer. I know how you all feel. Your lives are full with marriages, moving, school, new jobs, and the whole nine yards. But please don't forget what this community used to be, where user and mod worked together to make this place cool. If that were never true, we wouldn't have half the mods that we do today, who were promoted because of their love of the community and their diligence in trying to keep it that way. Where would this place be with no moderation? And what would the users be left with?

As I look at this site, and how it has changed, it almost seems as if the name change was symbolic. When I first saw the name change, this place just stopped feeling like home. Not because I have a problem with the name, but more because it nailed into me just how much this place has changed. Aesthetically, for the most part, it has changed for the better...but community-wise, it has grown a bit cold.

Some of the veteran users have been giving in to the changes. Instead of helping I see insults. When people get brave enough to express how they feel about something important, they get humiliated and insulted as has been proven in many threads as of late. I know that you all miss the community feeling too, but insults only add to the problem, not help. I know that you are trying to be funny, and I know that you think that making people laugh at newbs will help them get a clue, but it’s not working. The jokes have been more serious and insulting rather than welcoming fun.

There has been a lack of community activities. With the exception of the news posts, this site has been quiet. I know that V7 is coming, but there have been so many great ideas even before the mention of V7. There have been suggestions such as the long lost Fan fiction section that I have missed sorely ever since my transfer from MKNightmares to here.

Basically, I feel that this is an important issue, a problem that seems to be growing rather than dwindling with time. Everyday, I realize why I want the archives so badly. It’s so I can look back and feel how great this community used to be. I would hope that everyone here can see my sincerity in this and that you will all share how you feel about this.
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SubScorpTile
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 •07/13/2004 04:10 AM (UTC) •
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Nova, This is the Best. Post. Ever.
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krackerjack
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 •07/13/2004 04:14 AM (UTC) •
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That right there, is the sound of the nail being hit square on the head.

What can be said?
Nova you already said it.

Although i never said anything, i got the feeling just the other day that crow seemed to be the only moderater around to help anymore.

Whats the solution?
Is there one?
More mods?
I've no idea, but one thing's for sure, everybody's mood in general has changed in recent months (from the time that i left untill the time i returned).
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ShoeUnited
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Puto, ergo non est deus
Non opus est, si pretium non habetis.

 •07/13/2004 04:15 AM (UTC) •
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I can understand your viewpoints nova. And I too feel that Crow takes on a lot of work. Though it is through fault of his own. I still raise a pie to him.

If a mod is awake in chat you can clearly ask them to review a thread though, and they will. But I understand where you're coming from.

You also have to understand that there are a lot of newbs on here, and that makes it hard not to be totalitarianistic. So there will always be growing pains with this site.

I completely sypmathize with the mods being busy though. I mean it is a lot of work. They need a more workable force to help them dig and seperate the posts. And I would love for it to be unbiased, but it invariably won't.

I also heard through the grapevine that two are on their way to being selected, so this may help with those problems in that respect.

You should do what the other half of us older peeps do. Sit back and watch, because we can't help and we don't want to get in the way.

-$hoe
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Redsoul
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Xbox Gamertag: redsoul
PSN Tag: ThaRedsoul

 •07/13/2004 04:31 AM (UTC) •
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Too many of the users we are familiar with such as vets, friends, ect have left.

That was their choice. Just gotta make new friends sometimes. Alot of people move on in the real world.

I agree with you whole heartedly nova but not every user is that bad. Queve has done a good job showing a few of the new members around.

moderation is our big problem around here, it's not bad moderation just not enough. I laugh to myself everytime MKS posts in a pointless topic "why isn't this closed yet" and realise I'm looking at a message hours ago.
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Blade-Tsung
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 •07/13/2004 04:39 AM (UTC) •
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ShoeUnited Wrote:
I also heard through the grapevine that two are on their way to being selected, so this may help with those problems in that respect.
-$hoe


After this thread, there may only be one candidate now.

jk novastarr, i'm sure the mods won't feed you to the dragons just yet... wink
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Jonin01
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=Jonin01=

My DeviantArt Site - Check out my Artwork here

 •07/13/2004 04:53 AM (UTC) •
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We only have a few moderators working at present sadly enough.

At one time we had a lot of mods and the same thing still happened, hence why we removed a lot of them from 'duty'. A lot of mods doesn't equal a lot of work being done, we need mods willing to *do* moderation, not wear it as a badge alone as some do.

~Crow~ does deserve major kudos though, as he's a steady moderator on the site, and the admin forum is a prime example when it's looked at daily with reports made there. smile

There are staff that work on the forums as well that help out with moderation even though we don't post up a reply all the time to show it was one of us that did the work in a given situation, but we have other things we need to tend to as well on-site which take up our time.

We are looking into more mods, but a final decision on them has to be made before we assign any or approach anyone.

So essentially we've not forgotten the forums, just that as the site expands so does the workload, and you've got to expect there to be some drawbacks to how efficient moderation is as a result. We are all only human and not on here 24/7.

*considers pasting DArque's chatroom outburst but holds back* lol grin
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takermk
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 •07/13/2004 05:02 AM (UTC) •
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Nova, I appreciate you putting this. You sure do put your time on this site, and I appreciate you for it.
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NeoScorpion
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 •07/13/2004 05:40 AM (UTC) •
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tyeah change sucks... WHOOOO FOR Mk5.Org!!! we'll be a community instead of a community center soon...
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MKSECRETS
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 •07/13/2004 05:43 AM (UTC) •
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This post, along with what Shoe wrote in Sea_Serpent's thread, express what I've been feeling for MONTHS now. Even though previously I only mentioned it in a couple of threads from time to time, I know that lately I've been saying it every other post, but frankly, that's precisely what I feel and the reason I say it so often is 'cause I DO care that damn much about this site and a dozen or so users here.

There is ONE thing, however, I wanna elaborate on:

NovaStarr Wrote:
Some of the veteran users have been giving in to the changes. Instead of helping I see insults.


I may be guilty of this, but you gotta remember something: Since the Gamers.com days, unless I had no 'net connection at my house or I was on a trip where logging on was the LAST thing on the agenda, not a day has gone by when I haven't visited this site even if it was for a moment. You (and several other vets) have taken brief/long "vacations" from here, only to reappear later on.

Now I'm not saying that it's wrong of you or those others to have done that. What I'm actually saying is that maybe it was wrong of me to have NOT done it as well. The helpful MKS or the MKS that simply ignores the sheer noobness of the vast majority of the site's CURRENT members is no more. Having to put up with it day after day, for such an extended period of time will do that to you.

Too much real-life crap is making my life less enjoyable with every passing day, and the current state of this site isn't helping at all.

So Nova and all those other vets who have taken extended vacations from here...any good spots you could recommend?
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Starwinderbeta
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 •07/13/2004 11:15 AM (UTC) •
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I was called out of retirement to respond to this thread, but I am at a loss of words. NovaStarr crammed most of the veterans' thoughts and feelings into one thread, so there's not much to say, only to acknowledge it and support it, because all she is stating is, well, pretty much right on the ball. I applaud NovaStarr and her dedication to this site, and this thread she made. In my time, I had done a few of these, but weren't so great. This, on the other hand, is laser-sharp. I agree with the whole thing, a hundred and ten percent.

About the moderation issue, you higher-ups need to decide on the issue very quickly, because if Crow were to leave MK5.org, you're all screwed.

Screwed, as in deep in chest-high shit in a faulty bathroom with half a piece of toilet paper.

I'm done.
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Frikandel
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 •07/13/2004 02:04 PM (UTC) •
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For several years now i have been comming to this site and mk5.org, I was there under the name ScorpionsBrother. It is not as long as some of the members around here but i too senced some change. I thought it was most noticeable by awarding dragon points for great posts, but that is now a rarity.

I must say that i still don't have a clue what you mean by n00bs, in my opinon that is just a substitute for a bunch of jackasses (correct me if i'm wrong), But i do feel that newcommers must be welcomed to this site with friendlyness so that they too can feel welcome here and can become full blown members.

This is not a job for moderators alone, i thing everyone has a little responseability to contribute to this. But it would be nice to see when the moderators visit the site that things get cleared out again.

I still like it here very much and this is still the best site for mknews and a great forum.

Thanks for reading
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Mk_FrEaK
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Are you good enough in MK stuff? prove it!
#mktrivia - IRC Channel Operator. Si entiendes esto, Chinga a tu madre!

•07/13/2004 03:01 PM (UTC) •
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Well Nova, you sure were fast to post this before i did, but i agree that this must be talked soon and i appreciate that you made a thread of what has spoken yesterday at Irc. I have already told Crow how much i admire hime for not letting MKO down, i think as well the other mods have done a great work with updates and stuff but i think there has been a little unfariness with Crow, anyhow, it's not time to complain anymore, we should start over and work together as a community to keep up the good work, and to make this the incredible place it used to be. One of the saddest parts is that the new members doesn't even know the mods or who is a mod. Another thing that surprises me is that the mods have plenty of time for the mIrc Chat, but where are their responsabilities with the site? I don't wanna sound bitchy but monitoring one forum wont take out of your time more than 15 mins, anyhow.Cheers, and once again Kudos to ~Crow~.
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~Crow~
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 •07/13/2004 03:08 PM (UTC) •
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As far as moderation goes... there has been some discussion regarding potential candidates, but as Jonin stated no one has truly been chosen yet. I did make my personal recommendations, however... so I've done all I can do in regards to that issue.

I agree with your statements on the treatment of newer members to the site lately, as I feel many have been quite harsh. I understand there are a lot of these pests that join, create nonsense topics, bump threads, and such... but you cannot relate this to their visit counter or the fact they happen to be new. Not all new members are this way, as we were all new to this site at some point in its history. Time halts for no one, so you all should just accept these newer members into the community, rather than label them "new" and exclude anyone from being a true part of these forums.

There are a number of reasons I feel this site has lost much of its "community feel", the first being what I stated above. Recently, in another thread, comments about not knowing another user were made. Well, did anyone on this site know you before you joined? That's extremely doubtful, unless they invited you here. Try to take the time to know these seemingly intelligent new people, or spend more time on the forum. Read their threads instead of ignoring them for a topic created by a veteran member which has no more value. Being a moderator... especially now when the site is extremely lacking any others... I am forced to converse with many new people each day. I've gotten to know a lot of the newer members of this site, and I can promise you all they aren't all that bad, in fact many are more enjoyable to speak with than some veteran members. This problem really isn't so severe at this point, I'd just like a number of the veteran members to stop placing themselves on a pedestal whenever a new member approaches them. You don't have to remind them of how long you've been registered here, just let them respect you for who you are, not by your large visit counter or four year membership.

The main thing that has plagued this site's nature is the lack of site activities, in my opinion. People can rely on news and such, of course, this has long been our strongest point, but it just isn't always enough. The members of this site should feel that the staff are actually part of the community, and not just in the shadows, only appearing to post news and upgrade. Respond when people PM, and ask you questions about the forums or the site in general. You should be proud they are taking their time to ask you questions, rather than ignoring them and saying anything you want to know can be found in the FAQ/History page. I personally respond to each user that PMs me, to the best of my ability, just so they understand that I'm not just a demon waiting to ban them if they make a mistake.

I understand V7 is in construction, but more minor updates during V6 would not have been too much trouble. A fanfiction forum would have been a lot more useful than the Pocket Kombat forum, I'm sure. The feedback address is available, and I agree it should be used... but if you have the time on your hands to actually listen to what someone has to say about this site, then do it.

Everyone present should feel like they have the right to make suggestions about this site and how it is operated on these forums. Nova had to ask me if it was alright to make this thread... and at that moment I knew something wasn't being done properly here. If a veteran member such as Nova is afraid to voice her opinion on these matters, I cannot imagine how many others feel this way as well.
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NovaStarr
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About Me

TemperaryUserName Wrote: ...the best solution is set an example.
Show some tolerance. Be a fucking leader.

1337...there is no 1337 none of us can be 1337 because we are all the same, we are all human. The sooner we realize that, the better off we'll be.

My MKO Profile Site

 •07/13/2004 11:45 PM (UTC) •
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MKSECRETS Wrote:
So Nova and all those other vets who have taken extended vacations from here...any good spots you could recommend?


Hehe, my vacation place was school actually. I became very active in the anime club at my college and thus I started showing up less and less on the forums and in the chatroom. Also, for previous, voluntary breaks I dissappeared when I realized that this place was causing me more stress than pain. With people like BMK, VenoMark, and TMK, pressure here seemed to increase for me exponentially. It seemed that one issue didn't settle before another one started.

And I also saw respect lessening. People that I had respected suddenly had very harsh comments to make to me. While some comments had come from trying to help me through my issues here, others were only there to hurt me. At times people talked to down to me as if I were an inferior human being. It's true that I ask questions, often times about things that some people here know much about, but my asking questions does not make me stupid. I usually try to understand something by asking questions about the very basics of it, taking it down to a level that I already know about, and then moving upward. But I guess my method often gets misinterpreted.

But I'm cool now, not only because of my voluntary break, but because of my involuntary ones that made me realize that perhaps fate wanted me to take a bit more time off and figure out my own issues before I came back here.

I have regathered my self-esteem, have a new grip on my personal goals and dreams, and basically, I feel 'all sparkly inside' ;P

------

While I don't like some of the changes for the worse here, I am constantly astounded at how well everyone has understood me, and how we've basically been able to talk out the issue and look toward working together to make things better. Right here in this thread is the community feel that I missed so much, and I will try my best as a member, to be part of helping the future of MKO feel this way as well.
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Siduu101
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 •07/13/2004 11:57 PM (UTC) •
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I wish everyone on this site was like you or close.I'm really touch from your speech,from today I'll never flame anyone or call them children and I'll make your dream come through,you can count on me and other here.
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Sarcasm
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 •07/14/2004 12:00 AM (UTC) •
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Siduu101 Wrote:
I wish everyone on this site was like you or close.I'm really touch from your speech,from today I'll never flame anyone or call them children and I'll make your dream come through,you can count on me and other here.


i hate you so much
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Hyuga
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 •07/14/2004 12:00 AM (UTC) •
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As I'm probably part of the problem, I'm just going to say one thing before I leave this thread. I don't like most of the n00bs. They're either arrogant for no reason or just plain stupid. I won't treat them with any shred of respect until they learn not to act like fucking idiots every second they're on this site. While there are a few exceptions, this applies to the majority of these new people.
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Siduu101
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 •07/14/2004 12:05 AM (UTC) •
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Thanks very much Sarcasm!I'm very appreciative of your effort.
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Ghaleon
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-Pain Is Weakness Leaving The Body

 •07/14/2004 12:25 AM (UTC) •
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Good thread Nova, and yes it needed to be said...

Im in the same position as D, ive been coming to this site since the Gamers days and the only times i missed is when my comp was down or i had to go stay with my brother for a few days but even then i found ways to get on this site, sure it has been steadily declining in a way but we gotta remember that the Kommunity is still here and as long as that hasnt changed there is hope... Crow is doing one hell of a job as a mod but so is Jonin, Darq, TPB and all the rest, its just that sometimes life calls and u have to answer it first, but like they said there working on that... we as a Kommunity have faced much similar problems in the past and over came them to see another obstacle in the way in which we cleared also...

Just remember fellow MK5.org'ers... errr MKO members this is not the #1 MK site on the net for no reason...
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Sarcasm
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 •07/14/2004 03:03 AM (UTC) •
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Siduu101 Wrote:
Thanks very much Sarcasm!I'm very appreciative of your effort.


no problem i am here whenever you need me
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Siduu101
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 •07/14/2004 03:06 AM (UTC) •
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Thanks man!I notice you got a skull for doing the same thing so please stop I don't want you getting in trouble like I did.
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Sarcasm
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 •07/14/2004 03:11 AM (UTC) •
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Siduu101 Wrote:
Thanks man!I notice you got a skull for doing the same thing so please stop I don't want you getting in trouble like I did.



They already threatened to ban me and skulls dont bother me i never thought i would move up in rank anyway and moving up in rank doesnt seem to do anything.

okay back on topic
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MKMaster
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 •07/14/2004 03:25 AM (UTC) •
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That is so true nova.this is one of the best mk sites on the internet.and it needs to be taken care of.and if crow left we would have a whole bunch of brats running around here messing up the flow of mortalkombatonline.we can`t let that happen.if we had more op attention this place would be alot better off.i`ve been here for over 2 years and it was alot better in the past.so we need to take better care of this site,or who knows what would happen.your a great speaker nova.
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Siduu101
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 •07/14/2004 03:39 AM (UTC) •
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~Crow is a very nice person although he gave me skulls when I misbehave.He have a life but spends his time with us,even playing boot or immune games here,I hope he we can please him by obeying all the rules from today.
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