Jeneric Briggs
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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 04:09 PM EST

For the sake of conversation...

ill play along long with the premise that those characters can be DLC.

All of those outworlders should be the same character moveset just different skins. I’ve thought for a long time that MK needs a “Generic Fighter” on the official roster that has no special skills.. just fights with fists and feet. But that generic fighter can take on the form of so many different people. Special forces, generic ninja, outworlder, whatever.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 05:26 PM EST
thisiscourage

For the sake of conversation...

ill play along long with the premise that those characters can be DLC.

All of those outworlders should be the same character moveset just different skins. I’ve thought for a long time that MK needs a “Generic Fighter” on the official roster that has no special skills.. just fights with fists and feet. But that generic fighter can take on the form of so many different people. Special forces, generic ninja, outworlder, whatever.

I will be playing the PC version of MK11. Odds are good there will be a mod to play as them if they show up as foes in story mode.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 07:31 PM EST
Gillbob316

Alright, lets not kid ourselves here, they're nice NPCs as nice NPCs go, but if they stuck 4 to 6 of those people in a kombat pack, they'd catch all kinds of hell for it, and people would bitch up a storm that all 4 to 6 new characters were essentially rehashes of the same gimmick (IE. Native Outworlder) (Note: Except for the the 1 or 2 tarkatans who would just get called Baraka rehashes)

Lets not kid ourselves here, as a nameless mob, they're interesting. Our imaginations run wild. If they sold us a kombat pack of Loincloth guy 1, Loincloth guy 2, Skullface lady, and bone through the nose guy, they'd catch as much hell for it as they do for selling us 5-6 special forces characters.

Still beats guest characters though, so I guess it's all relative.

Not just that, but it would be 4-6 nameless background characters getting DLC slots instead of... you know.

XaeeD

I don't know if you guys ever saw Apocalypto, but these Osh-Tekk designs are very reminiscent of that movie.. just google it if you've never seen the film.

Oh, so now Xaeed is ready to let Outworld grow past the Conan aesthetics, haha.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 07:38 PM EST

People are gonna whine no matter who gets to be DLC. Though I agree characters like guests and Spectator #1 taking up those slots would be the worst offenders.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 07:40 PM EST
Gillbob316

Alright, lets not kid ourselves here, they're nice NPCs as nice NPCs go, but if they stuck 4 to 6 of those people in a kombat pack, they'd catch all kinds of hell for it, and people would bitch up a storm that all 4 to 6 new characters were essentially rehashes of the same gimmick (IE. Native Outworlder) (Note: Except for the the 1 or 2 tarkatans who would just get called Baraka rehashes)

Lets not kid ourselves here, as a nameless mob, they're interesting. Our imaginations run wild. If they sold us a kombat pack of Loincloth guy 1, Loincloth guy 2, Skullface lady, and bone through the nose guy, they'd catch as much hell for it as they do for selling us 5-6 special forces characters.

Still beats guest characters though, so I guess it's all relative.

Oh come on, can anyone not speak without you taking EVERY THING they same as being literal? We know NRS would never make a bunch of nameless NPCs DLC, let alone, all at once. The guy is just talking HYPERTHETICALLY. Seriously, I hate people who suck all the fun out of conversation by breaking every damn thing down as though it's all serious.

And to think NRS would actually name characters "Loin cloth guy 1"or "Skullface Lady" dude, just stop.

Rebel. Outsider. Fan Of The Obscure. Politically Incorrect. Spitfire!

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 08:02 PM EST
XaeeD

Jacqui's new design is underwhelming. It's not super awful or anything, but just underwhelming and surprisingly 'safe'. I didn't like the character in MKX, but I always thought she had potential. All they really had to do is drastically redesign her. Instead of playing it safe, they should've risked a more outlandish approach to her design. They didn't do that. I don't like the hair at all, it looks goofy. Her costume is boring too. They had some good concept art for her in MKX, that they never used, with interesting clothing and really over the top but dope looking hairstyles.

Something along those lines. The one in the center is an interesting idea. It sets her apart from Cassie, and pretty much every other female in the game. Even the more familiar concept arts initially looked better from what we'd eventually get.



In my opinion, Jacqui should've been redesigned to look more futuristic. This is artwork done by Justin Fields, for Jupiter Ascending, but I honestly would've preferred a Jacqueline Briggs who looked more like this:

First set: Jacqui would sure look cool like this, but this set would be totally inappropriate for an on-duty military fighter. I for one am glad to see them move past dressing military characters in a stripper parody of a military costume, like Sonya in MK9. At least they have her wearing "pants" in these, though the combination of body-armor leggings and bikini underwear is rather... confused. If the bottoms went better with the tops, I could see 2 and 5 making pretty cool alternates though. The rest are a bit too rebellious for someone who's still tight with a dad like Jax.

Second set: Yeah, I'd be on board with any of these. Only 1 and 4 seem to have much to offer that we didn't already get, though. Dig the bandana. It really suits her.

Third: What the f--

Ohhhhhh... I see what this is about. It doesn't even remotely have anything to do with her character, but it sure does show off her... personality.

Never shake hands with a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. ~ Master Fuji's Fortune Cookie
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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 08:47 PM EST
03/08/2019 08:49 PM EST
umbrascitor
Oh, so now Xaeed is ready to let Outworld grow past the Conan aesthetics

That was just one aspect of Outworld. Never said it was all there was to it. And screw you lol

umbrascitor
First set: Jacqui would sure look cool like this, but this set would be totally inappropriate for an on-duty military fighter. I for one am glad to see them move past dressing military characters in a stripper parody of a military costume

I'm thinking more in terms of additional costumes here.

umbrascitor
Third: What the f-- Ohhhhhh... I see what this is about. It doesn't even remotely have anything to do with her character, but it sure does show off her... personality.

First of all, I won't apologize for digging a sexy female design. Secondly, this image serves as a representation. Furthermore, with time-travel as a literary device, you could jump forward into a futuristic version of Earthrealm. You can in fact explore different worlds; fantasy, techno, cyberpunk, etc. So it's not just about something looking cool, you can also justify it in a story. That is, if you're ok with showing some skin (in this case). I think I have a pretty good idea of how characters should look like; which direction their character/costume design should take and why. I'm telling you, that design would work for Jacqui, if they could somehow fit it in the story. But even if they can't, I'd still love to have a costume that looks similar to that design. Her default can be whatever they need it to be, for the story, but other than that, I think devs and artists should have some liberties.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 10:49 PM EST

Sexy design

Crappy movie

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 11:01 PM EST
ProfesserAhnka
Gillbob316

Alright, lets not kid ourselves here, they're nice NPCs as nice NPCs go, but if they stuck 4 to 6 of those people in a kombat pack, they'd catch all kinds of hell for it, and people would bitch up a storm that all 4 to 6 new characters were essentially rehashes of the same gimmick (IE. Native Outworlder) (Note: Except for the the 1 or 2 tarkatans who would just get called Baraka rehashes)

Lets not kid ourselves here, as a nameless mob, they're interesting. Our imaginations run wild. If they sold us a kombat pack of Loincloth guy 1, Loincloth guy 2, Skullface lady, and bone through the nose guy, they'd catch as much hell for it as they do for selling us 5-6 special forces characters.

Still beats guest characters though, so I guess it's all relative.

Oh come on, can anyone not speak without you taking EVERY THING they same as being literal? We know NRS would never make a bunch of nameless NPCs DLC, let alone, all at once. The guy is just talking HYPERTHETICALLY. Seriously, I hate people who suck all the fun out of conversation by breaking every damn thing down as though it's all serious.

And to think NRS would actually name characters "Loin cloth guy 1"or "Skullface Lady" dude, just stop.

Someone else want to field this one? I just got in late. I'm tired.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 11:09 PM EST

No. Go back to sleep

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/08/2019 11:56 PM EST

That 1st set of concepts looks more like an Outworld drifter or a young Jataaka. They're awesome, but I see them as a completely different character than Jaqui. Personally I like her MKX outfits better. Her new armor n Kronika's Krew remind me of Phantasy Star Online characters on the Sega Dreamcast or other white futuristic anime-ish armor. Not that I'm complaining.

Why does every black character gotta be a damn cyborg? If all you want is sexy robot girls, and demonic monsters, I'm fairly certain there's various anime subcultures more suited to your uh... tastes...

Ka-Tra

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 02:01 AM EST

Are we all pretty much in agreeance here that Jacqui is a lowsy, boring character that nobody wants but we will always get because she fills an important quota (Black/female).

Her position in the overall story of MK (good/human/SF/earth realm character) could easily be filled with Takeda, Kenshi, Kai or Kung Jin all of whom are much more interesting, fun to play with and above all else actually requested however it is 2019 and if companies don’t tick off as many PC quotas as they can then they leave themselves open to criticism and cucifixion on social media!

Hence why we will probably always have Jacqui in MK from here on in no matter how much the fan base dislike her!

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 03:00 AM EST

lol Quota

I'm sorry Mortal Kombat is about the MAGICAL kind of wizards...

Ka-Tra

15 YEARS! ^[2004-10 Komics Sig by Siklooted, tyvm]^ [2012-19 Komics *NEW 1/26/2019*] "Circling Vulture, Laughing Hyena" "Ma'at" "Zhi Nu" True story, it happened to a friend of a friend of mine... EVERYBODY!

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 03:01 AM EST
Noob-Smoke-MK11

Are we all pretty much in agreeance here that Jacqui is a lowsy, boring character that nobody wants but we will always get because she fills an important quota (Black/female).

Not particularly.

If you've been reading the thread, anyway.

Tetra_Vega

That 1st set of concepts looks more like an Outworld drifter or a young Jataaka. They're awesome, but I see them as a completely different character than Jaqui.

Ka-Tra

I didn't want to be the one to say it first, after ranting so long about how some people just want everyone in Mortal Kombat to look like Outworld. But yeah, I saw that too. Like, why should Jacqui ever be wearing a ragged half of a poncho? The world didn't actually end when Shinnok invaded.

Gillbob316
ProfesserAhnka

Oh come on, can anyone not speak without you taking EVERY THING they same as being literal? We know NRS would never make a bunch of nameless NPCs DLC, let alone, all at once. The guy is just talking HYPERTHETICALLY. Seriously, I hate people who suck all the fun out of conversation by breaking every damn thing down as though it's all serious.

And to think NRS would actually name characters "Loin cloth guy 1"or "Skullface Lady" dude, just stop.

Someone else want to field this one? I just got in late. I'm tired.

I'm on it.

ProfesserAhnka

HYPERTHETICALLY

*snort*

Never shake hands with a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. ~ Master Fuji's Fortune Cookie
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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 08:08 AM EST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEyFjDvSJMY Cyborg Jacqui that is in MK mobile should of been in this game. She would of had a nice look, updated cyborg moveset, the first female cyborg and she could of even had an interesting story whether she got captured and forced to be a cyborg and join a new cyborg initiative plan with the special forces on her own.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 08:52 AM EST
ravendozier954

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEyFjDvSJMY Cyborg Jacqui that is in MK mobile should of been in this game. She would of had a nice look, updated cyborg moveset, the first female cyborg and she could of even had an interesting story whether she got captured and forced to be a cyborg and join a new cyborg initiative plan with the special forces on her own.

I would be very cool with that

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 09:27 AM EST
Tetra_Vega
That 1st set of concepts looks more like an Outworld drifter or a young Jataaka.

I'd respectfully disagree. I actually wanted to see them include Jataaka for once. But Jataaka, in my opinion, should be drastically redesigned. I'd certainly not have her look anything like those concept arts they did for Jacqui. Jataaka is an ancient demonic creature, native to the Netherrealm, whose human form is a mere facade. I'd like to see some TRUE diversity and equality among the female kast members, and so I would use Jataaka to fill in a niche of female characters that has never been explored or represented: the old (evil) hag character. Unlike Sindel, who's only said to be very old, but doesn't look any different from any other MK female, I'd do a true witch character; looks and all. Jataaka as a hideous Haegtesse, using magical Scimitars.

Tetra_Vega
Why does every black character gotta be a damn cyborg?

They don't. But Jax had bionic arms, and they did give Jacqui something similar by giving her those gauntlets, which she still has in MK11. It's not entirely the same, but there's still the idea of having some technological enhancements on your arms that defines your playstyle. Besides, if you look at her new default design, she already resembles a cyborg. It's not because she's black. Cassie has that costume where she's wearing some kind of futuristic, cybernetic full-body space- suit/armor. Because the idea is that these younger Earthrealm characters represent the new technological age; a futuristic approach to fighting. It reflects in their characters, their moves, and their costumes. The image I showed (of Jupiter Ascending) just takes that a step further, but it's not at all out of line for what defines her already as a character. It's in the same creative direction, only jumping ahead. You CAN use characters like her to explore a type of cyberpunk theme.

I knew Cassie would be getting a full-body tech-suit, I just knew it. I was coming up with costume designs for her years ago, that were extremely similar to what we're now seeing. And this happens over and over again. I made a Baraka animation with a gladiator mask and a battle flag, 8 months ago, long before MK11 was announced. The flag I made is exactly the same as how they did in the game, exactly the same. It's either a case of creative convergent evolution, or someone over at NRS saw my DA page lol. I've had people commenting on this. I wrote hypothetical movesets in which I gave Baraka a porcupine move; with spikes ejecting out of his back and shoulders. I wrote about a Tarkatan themed arena. I'm not psychic, I just have a good sense of what these characters are and where you can take 'm, creatively. I know that saying these things will trigger some of you, but I don't care. It is what it is. Instead of going the extra mile with a character like Jacqui, they're playing it way too safe, and her current design is hardly a step forward, whereas they did have an opportunity to truly make her a unique character.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 09:38 AM EST

I'd be more concerned about PC quotas if this wasn't a franchise whose whole gimmick is graphically murdering your opponent.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 01:24 PM EST
03/09/2019 01:27 PM EST
XaeeD

I knew Cassie would be getting a full-body tech-suit, I just knew it. I was coming up with costume designs for her years ago, that were extremely similar to what we're now seeing. And this happens over and over again. I made a Baraka animation with a gladiator mask and a battle flag, 8 months ago, long before MK11 was announced. The flag I made is exactly the same as how they did in the game, exactly the same. It's either a case of creative convergent evolution, or someone over at NRS saw my DA page lol. I've had people commenting on this. I wrote hypothetical movesets in which I gave Baraka a porcupine move; with spikes ejecting out of his back and shoulders. I wrote about a Tarkatan themed arena. I'm not psychic, I just have a good sense of what these characters are and where you can take 'm, creatively. I know that saying these things will trigger some of you, but I don't care. It is what it is. Instead of going the extra mile with a character like Jacqui, they're playing it way too safe, and her current design is hardly a step forward, whereas they did have an opportunity to truly make her a unique character.

Well now. If we're gonna start boasting about how deep our insights are....

Some years back I pitched some ideas to Midway some ideas I had for a follow-up to Armageddon. One of those ideas was a "Klose Range Kombat" system: a different kind of Breaker where the camera zooms in close and fighters trade blows the way you'd see in an action movie, with parries and reversals and stuff, based on a deep rock-paper-scissors system. They sent me a form response saying that they were legally obligated to not even read my pitch... but nevertheless, MKvDC came out later with a "Klose Kombat" system that was a watered down version of mine.

At the same time that I was creating a blood-themed character that went on to win this forum's Kreate-a-Kharacter contest at the time of MK9, Skarlet was in development as DLC. She was announced right around the time voting started. Both characters were created from the blood of fallen warriors, though mine was of the Netherrealm. My version had a Fatality where he pumps blood into your brain in X-ray mode, long before they started using X-ray in the Fatality cinematics for Skarlet.

That character was a brute who had a Fatality in which he shoves the opponent's arm into their chest cavity to blowout their heart. Jax later got a Fatality with a similar theme.

In the next year's contest, I landed a close second place with a nomadic Western themed character wielding a shotgun and the power to manipulate sand. Next game, we get Erron Black. My version had a throw where he summons a sand wall and smashes you into it. They've later gave that exact choreographed throw to Green Lantern, and now slightly modified versions to Sub-Zero and Geras (who actually does it with sand). My version also had a Fatality that involved sand coming out of the victim's insides. My version was Central American, and considering that Black was originally named Salazar, it's possible that a very early pitch for him could have been non-white as well.

It's a running joke between me and my fellow MK-fan friend that they keep "stealing" my ideas, and there are one or two other small things that have cropped up this time around that I don't remember at the moment, because I've stopped keeping track and they were pretty minor anyway.

-- BUT! The point of this post isn't (just) to toot my own flute, or to establish that my sense of the games is just as good as yours when I disagree with you. I have two points that I'm getting at here:

One, some of these calls are easy to make. A blood themed character in Mortal Kombat? A Tarkatan war camp? A more-spiky Baraka, after last game went crazy with the teeth? I also called out techy armor suits, just because it seems like a pretty obvious evolution for the new SF characters. Another guy in the character contest came up with a Western-looking character the same time I did, and unlike my Earthrealmer who mostly relied on sand magic, that one was actually an Outworld gunslinger if I recall correctly -- though his design was less traditional and more junkpunk than mine, and mine more closely approached the eventual Black. So, I'm sure tons of people have a good enough sense of the games to guess what they might do next. Which brings me to my second point:

All those people who have a good sense of the games (including especially the creators themselves) are still going to disagree on which aspects are more or less important, which directions to take the story and character designs, and so on. Jacqui's design may not be in line with your personal vision, but it does fall in line with someone like me who strongly prioritizes story and personality to influence visual design, and not the other way around.

I like that Ermac looks like a decaying mummy barely keeping his body together because neither Shang nor Shao are around to maintain the sorcery that created him. I don't like the idea that Jacqui should look like she comes from a more distant, spacefaring future than the one she actually exists in. (The Cyber Jacqui costume bothered me for this reason.) She currently looks kinda cyberpunk but doesn't go too overboard with the "punk" part, which is appropriate because she's a lot less of a punk than Cassie is. (I would pay to see Cassie with some punky hairstyles again.) Jacqui is a more straight-laced, direct, hardass type, and so she doesn't need to be too fancy for the same reasons classic Liu Kang doesn't need to be. Her gimmicks lie in what her gauntlets can do; she's a functionally oriented soldier, not so wrapped up in wearing stuff that looks awesome. It's also fine for her to wear armor similar to Cassie when, like Sektor/Cyrax and Kitana/Jade, they are closely partnered characters.

It's not a boring design unless you want to keep piling on extraneous fashion details for the sake of making her look "interesting," which seems to be a lot of people's idea of what good design is, but not mine. I wouldn't say her current design (the one we've seen so far, anyway) is exceptional -- Istill think they can make her more engaging by mixing up her silhouette a little bit, like that second batch of concept art you posted. But the other stuff doesn't represent who she is very well. To make those work, you'd have to rewrite the character's foundations. But that's a whole other discussion.

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RE: Jeneric Briggs
03/09/2019 01:45 PM EST

I think there's no disagreement here. People have good ideas, some are specific, others are obvious, and people have different preferences. I only mentioned Baraka, but there's more I could've talked about. But yeah, you end up sounding like a douche, so it's not like I'm making big claims here. I'm just pointing something out. I think lots of people have a really good sense of what MK should be, how characters could look, ideas for new characters, powers, storylines, gameplay. And those people could disagree on certain points, which is all fine.