Well for one thing, I've already explained the problem with the "double standard" argument as it applies to this topic. But for those who missed it: In the context of a fight, men don't take off their shirts to be sexy. It's to show off their muscles as a display of physical dominance and power -- to make you think twice about the risk of taking a punch from those muscles. But female characters are expected to wear more revealing outfits for the explicitly stated purpose of making them sexier.

No one talked about whether the guys are wearing shirts or not until they started dressing the women in clothes. Sexuality has always been an important dimension in the females' designs among the creators and the fan base, but never in the males'. We wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place if certain fans weren't way too caught up in how naked the women are.

So pretending this has anything to do with guy's shirts is nothing but a misdirection. It's a way of dodging around having to say what you really mean, so you can act all innocent when somebody calls you out. Couching the argument in terms of "double standards" to make it sound more politically correct doesn't change what the complaints are actually about -- telling the creators to make the women more naked because you like it, you think Mortal Kombat isn't as good without it, and because you feel like they owe it to you as a fan.

Are these fans "demanding" that the costumes be sexier? Maybe they're not... if you choose to ignore all the statements about how "pissed off" they are that the women are showing less skin, saying they hate the costumes because they cover up too much, the women look too much like men, the creators sold out to the SJWs instead of the "real" fans like them, and so on. People are calling out for what they want just as clearly as they were when they complained about dash speed and limited combos. Saying "I don't like it" is just as good as outright saying "change it back" in that context, so why not this one?

Splitting hairs over whether fans are technically demanding change or not sounds more like a diversion try and put me off balance, than an honest effort to dispute what I was saying. You know what's going on as well as I or anyone else does.

I already addressed a number of these points throughout the thread- if you would actually go and read everything rather than having a knee jerk reaction at a much EARLIER post and responding to that- we'd both be in a better place. But nevertheless, here we are.

First of all, you people need to decide exactly what you're arguing about here. Are we talking specifically about sex appeal or that females should wear what the men are wearing? Because despite everyone just lumping them together- they are NOT the same and I'm sick of everyone using all these false equivalencies to try and justify more boobies. Yes, Baraka and Kotal Kahn are in loin cloths- but do you truly think that's meant to turn people on? Is it really meant to be "sex appeal"? Baraka and Kotal Kahn are native tribal warriors in a foreign realm and their way of dress is meant to represent that- it is not meant to give anyone a tingle in their silly place. You want to bring up Mileena- Mileena as you stated, is meant to be sexy and provocative, she performs oversexualized gestures as you stated to pull the attention away from her face- that suits her character. We agree with that. But it's NOT comparable to Baraka or Kotal Kahn because they aren't doing the same thing- they aren't oiling themselves up, doing sexual thrusts, or ANYTHING erotic- they are simply wearing tribal outfits. So again, I ask you- what the fuck are we trying to argue here? If they gave the women more revealing outfits but they WEREN'T sexual in any way (No big tits, no big booties) would we still be having this discussion? I ask that because everyone keeps merging "more revealing clothes" and "more sex appeal" and then using that to try and show a double standard. Liu Kang and Johnny Cage have been shirtless throughout the entire franchise- but something tells me that had little to do with sex appeal and more to do with practicality in fighting. Some of us gay/bi men have spoken about how a shirtless man isn't automatically meant to be sex appeal and something tells me neither is a ravenous beast with sharp knives protruding out of his body or a giant blue dude in a loin cloth. Let's not act like there's no difference- there is.

Also, I could understand your point more IF we had female members of Baraka's and Kotal's species in the game and they were covered up like Ashrah- then yeah- that's unfair and complete bullshit- but we don't. And Mileena, despite all the outrage that she was wearing pants in MKX(tight, leather pants that showed off her ass crack) also had numerous revealing skins in that game including a porn geek's dream- sexy Vampire Mileena- WHICH WAS AWESOME. So yeah, I fail to see why some people act like Mileena was portrayed like Bryce Dallas Howard from M Night Shymalan's THE VILLAGE.

They aren't pandering to people who aren't going to buy their game, you want to know why? Because this goddamn outrage didn't start from the outside- IT STARTED FROM THE INSIDE. FANS, HARDCORE FANS got all up in arms after those horrible designs in MK9 and NRS has made a vow to correct themselves ever since, they are listening to the fans! It just so happens there's also a tight knit group of fans who are complaining about it.

This is sadly a CIVIL WAR and until we all get on the same page about that and REALIZE that we all don't agree and that we all want different things- then this is going to keep being an issue. But Neatherealm Studios is doing NOTHING wrong. Many of you don't even know what you're arguing over and yet you want Neatherealm Studios to turn their back on the majority of the fanbase who have praised their correction for the past two games?

Some of you are saying you want Kitana to piss just because Kano is...it's getting ridicules. Once again, what are we arguing about? SEX APPEAL? Or just that females should do what males should do/wear even if it makes no sense with their character?

I ask again- would you guys still be outraged IF Jade, Skarlet, Jacqui ect had more revealing outfits but they weren't sexual in the way you'd expect(no circus tits or Nicki Minaj butts)? Something tells me most of you'd still be piss because you want SEX APPEAL, which OK, state that. Let's not hide behind a fake outrage over double standards.

Really? I thought it was because they do not want their clothes to to be grabbed on to. The same reason why MMA fighters wear minimal and tight fighting clothing.

^ First, I truly doubt that it is the majority of the fan base that is praising this. If that was the case Beran would not have to have said what he did regarding the fans reaction to it.

Second, I already stated that I am one who doesn’t mind what they do either way. So the women aren’t double D anymore. Ok fine. As long as they kick ass and remain true to their character... I’m good either way. I only brought up Kotal and Baraka because you said there was no double standard... but clearly there is. Let’s go with what you said, for example. The loin cloths work because they are both from warrior tribes and it is within their character to dress that way. Fine. It works.

What about what they did to Scarlet then? Yes she may have dressed provocatively in the game she was introduced in... but there was/is a reason for this (and it wasn’t to be slutty). Scarlet is said to absorb the blood splatters of her opponents through her skin to make herself more powerful in battle. It makes her a better warrior. She’s not doing it for sex appeal... just like Baraka and Kotal aren’t. There is a valid reason. So how, then, does it make any sense for her to suddenly be covered from literally neck to toe? Dressing that way should, technically, cut her strength and effectiveness as a warrior dramatically if her power level depends on the amount of blood she absorbs from her opponents. Why would she screw herself over by dressing that way? So it’s fine to have Kotal and Baraka half naked because tribes and character relevance... but can’t let Scarlet show even a bit of skin (even though it has actual benefits to her character) for the sake of realism and modesty? Sorry. Double Standards for sure.

To answer your question for me personally: No. The females do not have to have the ridiculously inflated MK9 tits and ass... nor should they. However, with proportions in reason, I don’t see why their outfits still can’t be revealing and a little sexy. As stated, I don’t need video games to get me off. Either way, I’m happy to have a new MK game and will play it regardless. It is more than a little sad, though, taking this approach does really limit the variety for female costumes quite a bit. Those pics that were posted earlier of Jade, Scarlet and Jacqui pretty much prove that. They’re practically the same outfit with color and material changes. On the other hand the costumes for the guys are much more varied.

Also: Yes, they most certainly are pandering. Furthermore Beran’s attitude toward the fans that do have a problem with this is just wrong.

Saying nobody wants to buy reality after having just made a Mortal Kombat game with a ton of urban-set arenas and Stryker seems a tad counterproductive.

"First, I truly doubt that it is the majority of the fan base that is praising this. If that was the case Beran would not have to have said what he did regarding the fans reaction to it."

He said that he doesn't regret making that decision and doesn't care IF people are angry. If majority of the fanbase were outraged over the costumes- he wouldn't have spoken on the topic at all- as a matter of fact- you'd see Neatherealm Studios making an active change right now- but you're not- that's because most people don't have a problem with it. As I stated above, it was FANS who motivated this change to begin with after MK9.

Second, I already stated that I am one who doesn’t mind what they do either way. So the women aren’t double D anymore. Ok fine. As long as they kick ass and remain true to their character... I’m good either way.

Cool! Wanna go for drinks? Glad we got that settled...uh oh...

What about what they did to Scarlet then? Yes she may have dressed provocatively in the game she was introduced in... but there was/is a reason for this (and it wasn’t to be slutty).

Every female character was designed to be "slutty" (your words, not mine)- just because Skarlet's ability to absorb blood through skin was noted doesn't make her primary outfit anymore of a joke than the other females in the game and if anything that was only introduced so she COULD parade around in hooker boots and a thong.

Scarlet is said to absorb the blood splatters of her opponents through her skin to make herself more powerful in battle. It makes her a better warrior. She’s not doing it for sex appeal... just like Baraka and Kotal aren’t. There is a valid reason. So how, then, does it make any sense for her to suddenly be covered from literally neck to toe?

That's a fascinating question. Maybe that's something we should time travel back to 2011 and ask because MK11 WASN'T the beginning of Skarlet being fully clothed. Her alternate costume in MK9, the same game she made her debut, was a much more conservative choice of clothing that covered her entire body with the exception of her arms (and her MK9 styled Circus tits of course). So Skarlet actually wearing clothes is not a brand new thing- not to mention she was also covered up from head to toe in the MKX comic. She has had only ONE costume where she has shown a significant amount of skin.

Dressing that way should, technically, cut her strength and effectiveness as a warrior dramatically if her power level depends on the amount of blood she absorbs from her opponents. Why would she screw herself over by dressing that way?

Screw herself? She seems just fine in MK11. She absorbs their blood as it rains adown upon her head and face- have you not seen her brutalities and fatalities? Also, I'm sure the showers of blood doesn't just end there- it soaks through her clothes and into her skin. You know, kind like how when it rains and you get soaking wet....duh? Her clothes aren't liquid proof lol. Have you actually seen any Skarlet gameplay?

So it’s fine to have Kotal and Baraka half naked because tribes and character relevance... but can’t let Scarlet show even a bit of skin (even though it has actual benefits to her character) for the sake of realism and modesty? Sorry. Double Standards for sure.

Nobody said it had anything to do with modesty. There you go once again blurring the lines between sex appeal and double standards. Do Baraka and Kotal get you hot? There's nothing sexual about their outfits. There was something sexual about that travesty Skarlet called a primary in MK9 because those designs were meant to be sexual- Skarlet hasn't had a costume like that since. If it makes you feel any better- she's getting a pretty sexy Russian spy outfit that shows off her nice legs....so what are you really complaining about?

However, with proportions in reason, I don’t see why their outfits still can’t be revealing and a little sexy.

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Glad you're being honest. But not every female outfits NEEDS to be revealing and a little sexy. You may WANT that...but it's not a requirement. As long as you understand that.

As stated, I don’t need video games to get me off

Un huh. Ok.

It is more than a little sad, though, taking this approach does really limit the variety for female costumes quite a bit. Those pics that were posted earlier of Jade, Scarlet and Jacqui pretty much prove that. They’re practically the same outfit with color and material changes. On the other hand the costumes for the guys are much more varied.

I disagree. And besides, more skins are coming down the line with the Kombat Pack. It's not a big deal to me. I'm more thrilled with how badass the females look than anything else.

Also: Yes, they most certainly are pandering.

To those evil SJWs who don't even play Mortal Kombat right? Those green and purpled haired spinsters who are looking to destroy personal freedom and skimpy outfits for all!

The only people they are "pandering" to is their fans. So if you have an issue with that- take it up with your fellow community- not imaginary people.

Furthermore Beran’s attitude toward the fans that do have a problem with this is just wrong.

It's not wrong- it's his opinion. He's being honest. Would you rather he lie and whisper sweet nothings in your ear? He's being a man and sticking by his choices. I find it admirable.

“Uh huh. Ok.”

You know absolutely nothing about me. So kindly piss off with your presumptions. Last I checked you were the one drooling all over yourself regarding Kano. So you’re the one getting all hot over a video game character. Not me. Which is also pretty hypocritical of you considering your attitude towards people in this thread you put down for liking sexy, big-breasted females in MK.

But whatever, it’s pretty clear you’re blind to any thoughts about a subject that differ from your own. There’s just no talking to someone like yourself. What’s the point? I stand by everything I said. You have yourself a good day. I’m done with this.

You're correct, umbrascitor has no idea what he's talking about. On a somewhat related note, it is pretty interesting that Beran has divided some people in this community with his stupid comments. At the end of the day if people want to justify covering up women because that's what "happens in life or death situations" (because everyone has been in those!! Or fights, clearly), then the men should receive the same treatment. Anything less is a double standard, period.

The difference is if Kano was covered from head to toe in this game you wouldn't hear me ranting about it.

Just sayin'.

It has been toned down because of jerks and fuckers masturbating to the video games digital boobs and asses.

Seriously, if you want that shit, watch the content the modders do online... Just Google sex MKX and get Tehran fuck outta here

I'd maybe take offense to that, if either of you seemed to understand what I was even talking about.

@xysion Do you honestly believe that all the people asking for costumes that show more skin and lamenting the lack of sex appeal... actually don't care about the sex appeal? That it's all because they're concerned the ladies are going to catch their outfits on something?

Give me a fucking break. You're not going to convince me that people aren't really complaining about the things they're putting this much passion into complaining about. That is ludicrous and brazenly dishonest.

You and I may have had our differences, Ahnka, but if I could upvote this comment more than once, I absolutely would.

Haha <3

NRS: You don't fight in a Bikini

Their hired voice actor for Sonya getting ready to fight:

Some do care about sex appeal. I do not. I would still rather want more parity with female costumes with the male costumes for reasons I have already mentioned in this thread. The fact you are are so vehement with your opinion and unwilling to accept any other view speaks volumes about myopic you are and how you are putting everyone in the same basket. Two or more people having the same opinion does not mean they came to that opinion the same way or that their motivations are the same. Maybe if you could actually reconcile such a simple concept as that, you would would not come up with complete BS about men taking their shirts off to show their physique to intimidate their opponant and then when corrected accuse others of misunderstanding your baseless, quite frankly anencephalous points.

I do not want to convince you because it clear thoughout this thread, you can not be convinced especially with your afforementioned mindset, which I had a strong precognition would happen, hence why I did not reply to your posts all the way through.

Yes, Rhonda Rousey, photographed fighting in a PROFESSIONALLY ARRANGED MMA fight.

She's not getting ready to fight giant acid spitting reptilians and ninjas who can shoot ice in some strange toxic land.

God you people are dense.

My god, EVERY fan base is just fucking embarrassing.

I think I'm more offended there's someone who doesn't seem to know the difference between fighting an MMA match and voicing a fictional character

UFC and boxing matches are controlled environments with rules and limitations as to what areas of the body contestants are allowed to hit. They do not use weapons and are not allowed to wear any form of armour (including thick cloth). However, they mostly use their fists which are literally wrapped in cushion to soften the blows.

Mortal Kombat is about fighting to the death, where characters will use any weapons and any means necessary to win and literally slaughter their enemies. It is comparable to ancient warfare; where soldiers were covered head-to-toe in thick armour.

Comparing MK to UFC / boxing is idiotic. In UFC they spend most of the time cuddling on the floor. Try that in a real fight (either on the ancient battlefield or even in the modern streets) and you'll get shivved in the kidney.

Look at examples of historical asian armour (the main influence for MK's aesthetic) - they have several layers of armoured robes, with lose scarfs and even capes. Historically, weapons and armour would have decorations and long flowing parts (such as tassles and feathers)which were used to imtimidate and distract the enemy.

"But the long flowy robes can be grabbed and pulled" Yeah, and while you're hands are full of clothing you're open to attacks and will get a spear/sword to the face. Trying pulling on an oppenants sleeve while they're holding a weapon; you're pulling that weapon towards yourself.

"Oh but Johnny fights shirtless and in spandex leggings", Yeah and realistically he'd get killed because of that fact. Guess what: in the original timeline that is exactly what happened. Repeatedly! He kept getting killed because he couldn't stand up to real warriors using armour and weapons.

"Liu Kang wears the same and he wins a lot" He's Bruce Lee with fire magic. He's supposed to win. He's the best hand-to-hand combatant in the MK universe. You aren't beating him one-on-one unless it's your chapter in the story mode then you automatically win by default because deus-ex plot device.

I'm all for making the male and female characters equal and not having moronic double standards.... but trying to argue that wearing only underwear is a viable option in all-out war is ludicrous.

This isn't even close to being embarrassing. Let's calm down.

Yeah, there is an easy way to win, it is called using a gun. Your argument is contrived. If it were comparable to ancient warfare where soldiers were covered in thick armour, then how many characters are wearing thick armour? None. Clearly Kotal, Raiden, Johnny Cage, Noob Saibot, Baraka, Kano, Geras et al did not get the memo.

It is a better comparison than comparing MK to ancient warfare though for reasons already mentioned.

Again, then why are hardly any of the characters wearing such attire? Who is wearing armoured robes? Again your entire is completely contrived. MK is a video game with certain themes and realism is not one of them, graphical fidelity aside. It does not matter what the characters are wearing when each blow or action against them results in the same effect. Scorpion could be naked or wearing a bullet proof vest, the effect of Baraka stabbing him with an arm blade is going to be same regardless. The costumes are completely for aesthetic purposes only.

In the original timeline Johnny Cage was killed by Motaro, who does not use any weapons...Stupid Johnny was wearing the spandex which allowed him to survive the first two tournaments against warriors using blades and other weapons. I wonder what attire would have saved him...None because the costumes are purely aesthetic.

One more thing...

Though I’m in total disagreement with you Ahnka, there is one thing you mentioned that I would love to see in an MK game. A full-on female Tarkatan. I think that would be damn cool.

Ok, that was it.

A female tarkatan would be interesting to see

Oh. Well, if you're not one of those people who are angling for more sex appeal, then clearly my posts were not directed at you. I'm talking to the people who just want the women to look sexy for their own enjoyment. I didn't put you in a basket with those folks. You hopped right in there voluntarily when you "corrected" me, claiming that the argument for skimpier clothes was really about making the women combat-ready -- acting as if the people I was addressing directly in my posts did not exist, or more bizarrely, that you all shared the same reasonable-sounding opinion. Maybe that really was your opinion all along, but it's not what others were talking about, and I can't believe I'm taking the time to explain this right now.

Hey, speaking of clothes you can grab onto.... You know what kind of clothing is much easier to grab onto than a full-coverage skin-tight bodysuit? Any outfit with gaps. Those MMA outfits are built with convenient carrying handles in all the places you wouldn't want one.

... Not that it matters anyway, because like you said: the costumes are all just for aesthetics, not realism. So what's the point of bringing up MMA? If the creators decide to dress their royal assassins in something other than a sexy sexy swimsuit for a change, taking more assassin-worthy attire as inspiration like Scorpion and Sub-Zero get to do, then what's the problem?

If parity is the only thing that you, personally, are looking for, then we have Sonya wearing her halter top while Revenant Kang wears heavy armor. Old Man Cage is totally clothed, even going so far as to cover up the tattoo bearing the name of his first true love. Kitana has a plunging neckline, and D'vorah's first render was way more naked than even her fellow Outworld freaks Kotal and Baraka. So if it's parity you want, then parity you got.

"Anencephalous" -- I like that one. Maybe I'll keep that one in my pocket for the next time I feel like sounding super extra pretentious.

Am I the only one who doesn't think naked flesh on fictional characters is worth all the vitriol in this thread?

Some people are committed to going down with the ship no matter what. It's funny and tragic simultaneously.