I am a big fan of character development, but at the same time I do not want to have romantic involvements into the story unless it is important for the story and that character! If Smoke is gay or not for Subbie isn't important to know directly, but the subtle hints that was shown in the Story Mode was good enough for us as fans and gamers to speculate wether or not that might be, but in the end, it doesn't matter if he is or not, because it is not important!

I believe he is gay, but that's just my interpretation of the relationship between him and Subbie and not something I feel needs to be disclosed in the game itself. Sometimes it's just nice to have these theories and conclusions made by yourself than to actually have it displayed on the screen. I feel the same with the Johnny/Sonya and Subbie/Sareena romances, they shouldn't be explained or displayed in the game itself, but it is nice to see a few subtle hints here and there to that there might be something and then it is up to the individual person to decide wether or not there is.

I think NRs handled those parts really well in this game, even with the Liu Kang/Kitana romance. You can see that there is something between them, but it wasn't an all out romance with kissing and cheesy love scenes. And that's how I think it should be in a game like Mortal Kombat.

Please no, Mortal Kombat doesn't need to be a MTV generation hipster, hyper sexualiation, that the modern TV and film due far to often. Didn’t Mortal Kombat 2011 change characters enough to fit today’s over simplification of characters and storylines , more so what you consider what they did to Johnny Cage in 2011? The first MK film did a better job at capturing who Johnny Cage was. Mortal Kombat's storyline and themes (Mileena) have been bad since Deadly Alliance and has gotten worse with each game.

Like the concept of Mortal Kombat 2011 concept of rebooting, I am against the re writing MK history. Adding sex as a theme of Mortal Kombat has been wrong, because the series ISN"T about it. Just like Mileena ever since Mortal Kombat Deception has been a joke and even more in Mortal Kombat 2011. Mileena was a complex character up until MK 2011. Mileena is a huge joke thanks to MK 2011. How can anyone take her seriously given what the MK team did to her in MK 2011 storyline.

I am not anti gay, but turning MK into one of the those MTV soap opera is the wrong path for the series. Mortal Kombat in general has very few love interests, and I think it should stay that way, which it won't if the Vogel and this crew have been re writing MK history for the past 10 years. There was Kitana and Liu Kang, Baraka and Mileena sort of. Even Cage hitting on Sonya didn’t appear till Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance which wasn't a big deal. The irony is that it was even hinted at in Tobias ’s run, but put into the game thanks to the film. Where do people get the idea that Smoke is gay?

Notice how these relationships are established or even hinted they never played a heavy role on what was going own. It wasn't until 1997's MK4 that Liu Kang and Kitana hinted their feeling for one another. Deadly Alliance’s Cage and Sonya possible love interest wasn’t even that big deal, it was more of Cage hitting on Sonya for the first time. Even then it wasn't much too it , but there, but there was not lusting for one another, which was the right thing to do , in a Mortal Kombat game.

John Tobias the real creator of everything we know as far as ,character development, and storyline did it right. Give characters motivations, goals and sub plots in a over arching story to give them a good reason why they are there in the first place. MK isn’t the game about who is going to hump who next.

I don't think that aspect ever had any importance or relevance in this franchise. So other than character's motives to be in the game, their backstory (As warriors or threats). The rest doesn't matter much imo. So to speak, relationships based on alliances only are alright.

It would still be possible to make a love story be an important part of a game's plot i'm sure but in MK? Doubt it. And i don't care.

I'm all for character development, but MK's storyline doesn't need to be bogged down with romance stories. I still feel that the stories should be told like character studies and that we should get individual insights and interpretations to Mortal Kombat as if it was a philosophy, not just some martial arts tournament to protect one's realm. By having something like that, you allow the story and characters to have more depth and substance. I would love for the series to have all of this, but I doubt it's going to happen with the characters being a lot more simplified.

So far everyone agrees. :P

Yeah love stories are for chumps lol.

Hmmm, perhaps this should be marked as some kind of MKO holiday? After all, how often does it happen here that everyone is basically on the same page on any particular topic?


In regards to the thread, I really don't have anything else to add to what Jaded and others have said. Mk does not need any exaggerated attention on relationships / sex. The hinting of certain things is good enough.

The character development in the series isn't as one dimensional as people think.

Liu Kang = starts out as a rookie hero, becomes a champion, becomes a zombie

Johnny Cage = Considered a joke, proves he can be a hero, proves he has heart, dies , comes back

Raiden = sworn to protect earthrealm, becomes more willing to put himself in the fold, goes bat shit crazy

Sub-Zero - wants revenge for his brother, becomes a hero himself and leader of the lin que.

Scorpion - evil spirit of vegence, turns out he has a heart of gold, starts helping earth realm, becomes a prick off and on again,

These characters HAVE changed and grown through out the series. What makes it work though is that their development and the story are intertwined. Making Smoke gay has absolutely nothing to do with the story of MK, nor is it a good way to explain his relationship with Sub-zero.

I have nothing against people being gay , I don't care where you dip your wick, but this is Mortal Kombat, not Twilight.

You would figure that Kitanna and Liu Kang would have had a love child by this point in the series but NRS kept that kind of shit out of the game because it just doesn't work within the context of a fighting game featuring extreme graphic violence and death.

Well obviously I'm only referring to relationships etc. that will have an impact on the story and define who a character is..

I don't care about any Hollywood Bimbo that Johnny Cage might have bedded. I don't even care about Johnny Cage's relationship with Sonya, since it is only intended for comic relief..

But I think Sub-Zero's (Bi Han) relationship with Sareena is interesting and could be explored further in MK10, if Sareena is in the game. Particularly since Sub-Zero (Bi Han) would be returning once again as Noob Saibot, I don't think that he's dead, that could be a really interesting story dynamic..

I do believe there's more than meets the eye to Smoke and Sub-Zero's (Kuai Liang) relationship. It could potentially be interesting to see how Sub-Zero's loss affects Smoke in the future..

Furthermore I don't see why everybody is writing off Liu Kang and Kitana's relationship as a harmless and irrelevant flirtation. They are 2 powerful characters, who are central to events in the MK universe and their relationship will inevitably have an impact on those events..

For example a child born to Kitana and Liu Kang, would immediately become an important figure in the MK universe. Their child would belong to both Edenia and Earthrealm. It would have some impressive lineage. Born to Edenian Royalty and an Earthrealm Hero, it would be sure to grab the attention of some despot or other. Also even with Liu Kang and Kitana as parents, there's no guarantee that the child would be allied with good. It could be the next despot!! Plus they'd probably be a really cool character to play as..

As long as it relevant, these thing could be touched upon or explored fully without MK turning into a Twilight movie or bad soap opera.

BTW I hated Twilight!! Who wants to read about a neurotic OCD vampire, with a heart of gold and such a lack of balls he's starving himself. Instead of just tucking into the nearest available food supply. Or worse still, who wants to read about an equally neurotic undead groupie, with no sense of self-preservation and even less Brains..

A good story has three dimensional characters who have reason to experience the full gamut of emotion. Hate and love, happiness and sadness, bravery and fear. All those things are necessary to depict the behavior of human beings, which most of the cast of Mortal Kombat is, and even the non-humans feel emotion too, with the exception of cyberninjas under programming. Even Shao Kahn was capable of love, back when Tobias was the writer.

Lemme give a non-relationship related example of how the story could be better with a wider range of emotion:

Liu Kang fights Goro. One of the most famous battles in the timeline. When we see him do it in MK9, he's confident, eager to face him. Kinda has a smirk on his smug fuckin' face going in.

This is an 8 foot tall monster with four arms who for five hundred years has never been beaten, and his most famous win was against the Shaolin's greatest legend. He's also the most famous subboss character in the history of the franchise. So why does the story proceed to treat the character with so little fanfare? Why would Liu be so damn sure he can take him? Why would it all be over so quick? WHERE is the fear? Where is the self-doubt? Where is any build-up to their fight at all? Goro's treated like he's just another dude! Ermac got a scarier entrance into the tournament!

To feel no fear isn't bravery. Bravery is the act of feeling fear and overcoming it, fighting in spite of it. Bravery is heroic and inspirational and leads to great moments in storytelling. Feeling nothing is empty. It's unimpressive. It completely devalues the threat that the enemy is supposed to represent.

And the end result is Goro is robbed of any of his monster reputation. In fact, NO ONE is EVER afraid of ANY of the Shokan in MK9 and they ALL look like chumps when they lose as a result. Whatever happened to subbosses being scary? At least if the characters seemed intimidated, then beating them would seem like it was hard for the character to do and they'd keep some of the reputation a giant four armed monster is supposed to fuckin' have.

The movie showed everyone being incredibly intimidated by Goro. It also spent a great deal of time giving Liu's character an arc all about being unsure of himself and showing him having to actually work to overcome his doubts and insecurities before he could defeat Shang Tsung. The cartoon also constantly showed Liu dealing with personal issues like the fear of outliving all of his friends because the champion doesn't age, and frankly, for as shitty as that cartoon was, it still, after all these years, remains the most nuanced depiction of Liu Kang's personality to date. It also has the best depiction of his relationship with Kitana, and the most detailed and emotional depiction of Sub-Zero and Smoke's attempted escape from the Lin Kuei and the results of Smoke being mutilated on an operating table and trapped in an existence as a cyborg. How sad is that, that a show from the mid 90's with "dragon jets" and Nightwolf as a computer nerd still got some things better than the games have so far?

When did people start thinking that Smoke was gay? I guess I could see it with his beautiful hair, and the way he ran to Sub-Zero in story mode was a little curious. However, I don't think Sub-Zero is. I've always thought it would be an interesting story for Noob Saibot, Sareena, and Sub-Zero to come into a love triangle sort of thing. I definitely think that a relationship with Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) and Sareena was going to be explored if they hadn't shut everything off at Armageddon. She even saved his life.

I think it's more like a crush on Smoke's part if anything. It reminds me of Green lantern (kyle rayner) he had a friend that was crushing on him and he finally had to tell him that it wasn't going to happen. I think that's Smoke and Sub-Zero's relationship. What also leads me to believe this is that this time Smoke was emotionally scarred by Sub-Zero being turned and rushed to his every need. When the same thing happened to Smoke, Sub-Zero tried to help him but he didn't go out of his way to find Smoke throughout the later games. Who knows?

I will say this also though. Didn't the bios say that Smoke and Sub-Zero were raised together as children and are like brothers. I mean being in the Lin Kuei even implies this. So if these two have a brotherly relationship and act like brothers and best friends, like Kuai liang seemed to have that same relationship with Bi-Han, then why does everyone automatically throw that in the pool as one or both of them is gay? That just seems crazy to me. Everyone has a best friend that they confide in, and probably tell more stuff too than anyone else. What about Jade and Kitana? They have the exact same relationship as Smoke and Sub-Zero. So, are they lesbians now? This is not to cause a fuss, I just feel it's a curious question. They are in all aspects brothers in how they act, and if two brothers hook up that's just straight up incestual. Is it not?

Anyway, I'm with the group that thinks these kinds of things probably don't need to be explored in MK. There are so many overly dramatized story's in the world today that MK shouldn't have to touch story's like that.

As far as this whole Gay-Smoke kick people seem to be on, while I think his hair is excessively effeminate and that certainly raises a flag, I don't see anything more than best-friendship between him and Sub.

I actually think it's a little offensive to look at two male characters being close friends and automatically assume there must be something more going on. The whole concept of "bromance" or whatever you wanna call it seems like some kind of negative stereotyping to me, like it suggests guys aren't allowed to be close friends without it being something more.
Smoke's bio refers to Kuai as "like a brother to him". Smoke is an orphan, the Lin Kuei and particularly Kuai Liang is his family, the only family he knows. So...what, they can't be as close as brothers without it being gay? That just doesn't make sense AND the insinuation is kinda creepy, honestly. I mean nobody comes in these topics and suggests Jade is gay for Kitana and yet their relationship is exactly the same as Sub/Smoke's. Come to think of it, why is it whenever we talk about sexuality on this site, there's always male/male suggestions but never any theoretical-lesbians, hmm?

I'm with Scar on the whole wanting to see a Noob/Kuai/Sareena triangle thing, personally. I think since they blew their load a little early on letting Kuai find out his brother is an evil demon and fight him now, that would be a good way to generate more conflict between them.

Now I have thought about that as well. Why does it seem like all the Mortal Kombat characters are so fearless and big in terms of ego? Is it because all of them have a fan base to care about or just poor writing? Name five side/main characters in the game series without that big of an ego. Wu Lae, Mokap...? They're even ready to die if they can just retain their pride.
Mortal Kombat has become a bit mainstream, caring about profitability the most. Which I understand, seeing the past issues with Midway Games. John Vogel may not be the best possible person for the duty. Oh well. It's a fighting game and the bar hasn't been set that high in fighting games.

I don't see it either. I think it's because of his hair...

It depends on how people individually interprets the situation. Some see it, others don't.

How can you interpret something that doesn't even exist?

Does anyone else think Jax and Quan Chi are gay?

Quan Chi is only gay for himself. He wakes up every morning looking in the mirror, and telling himself, "Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me!"

Really, no one in Mortal Kombat has given me those sorts of vibes. Sure, I'd love for more LBGT characters in video games, but I'm not going to hope that Mortal Kombat takes care of it. I come for MK for a handful of things, and consideration of the LBGT crowd isn't one of them.

Unless it has some connection with the plot or it's very well done, I'd rather they just stick to their guns.

Smoke - Neither flamboyancy nor feminine appearances control sexuality. Plus, his relationship with Sub-Zero gives absolutely NO basis for a relationship beyond brotherly connection. If we were talking Ike x Soren type shit, then sure, I can understand the argument, but there's nothing here to feed off of.

Jax - .....I never really got any vibes or anything from him. Unless we're talking about Defenders of the Realm Jax... He liked to call Raiden 'girlfriend'. That usually made me raise an eyebrow.

Sub-Zero - He's never really shown any form of 'romantic emotion'. He's shown compassion towards his allies, but nothing romantic.

Jade - Another Smoke situation. No, she's not gay just because she's close to Kitana.

Shang Tsung - Read my statement about Quan Chi above.

Stryker - ONLY IN MY DREAMS, WHERE HE COMES TOWARDS ME RIDING A MASSIVE, RAINBOW COLORED UNICORN, AS WE RIDE OFF INTO THE SUNSET HEADING TO NEW YORK CITY, WHERE WE CAN GET MARRIED AND DIE TOGETHER! AND "ALWAYS" BY ERASURE WAS PLAYING THE ENTIRE TIME! ....But there is zero basis on his sexuality.

Rain - Read Shang Tsung.

Khameleon - Imagine her meeting up with Reptile, and being like, "I'd love to repopulate and all, but I'm gay. Looks like how species are fucked..."

Ask the same question to people who believe in God. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

There's a big difference between what you believe in and what you can interpret. There's also a big difference between sexual orientation and religion too. When you're interpreting something, you're explaining the meaning of, not believing in something. And let's keep religion out of this topic, m'kay?

I'm asking you how can you interpret a character's sexual orientation when clearly there's been nothing that shows that they are what you think they are? Despite that you can believe in what you want, but stating it as if there really is something... doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

The only characters that actually shows it in this game are Cage and Liu, heavily. Due to Kang's light flirting and Cage's obnoxious compliments. Besides, I can picture exactly what NS would probably do if one of their characters is indeed gay, but I'm saving that for another time.

See, you have already made up your mind that there "clearly" aren't anything that could suggest Smoke might be gay, so trying to explain it to you would be like talking to a wall. But I will say again that just because you cannot see it, doesn't mean that it isn't there. And then I'm not going to discuss this further with you. You can disagree and then that's that.

Yeah, you always stop, because you can't handle criticism or anything that are against your claims. I guess I'm not allowed to ask you questions, which I should have know. Maybe if you would have answered them, I might see how anyone can interpret some character's sexual orientation.

I don't see it, yet you do. So how is that you can see something that other people don't? Since a fair amount of users clearly said, "what Smoke and Sub-Zero have is friendship, a good friendship." You think there's more, how so? What makes it to where you're seeing that there's more than just friendship, when others don't?

Guess I won't get an answer because you always stop when someone's trying to get some fucking answers out of you. Oh and maybe if you'd stop acting like I'm always disagreeing with you, you can clearly see that I'm NOT disagreeing with you. It's, "I have no idea what you're talking about and getting these ideas from, could you help me explain it better so I can understand from YOUR view point?" Yeah, that's totally disagreeing right there.