MK9 just seemed to have Kano on the side of Outworld from the very beginning for whatever reason. It was just silly.

I just got to thinking about this when I read Garlador's smoke discussion.

A lot of people were thinking that the switch between Smoke and Sub-Zero would lead to better things for Smoke, and possibly a more fleshed out story, however I want to throw out my view on that.

I feel that maybe the switch was done to make the cyborgs more popular. I may be wrong, but thats something I got to thinking about. I mean the cyborgs were never really well received in the first place and cyrax and sektor were never going to be the mainstay popular characters, so what did they do? They took one of the most popular characters in the franchise and changed him. Now Sub-Zero who is essentially number 2 to scorpion is cyber and it brings more attention to the cyborgs in general.

Whereas the argument was Smoke could be more fleshed out I really don't think that was ever in their minds at all. If they wanted to do something more with Smoke they would have done it in the first timeline, IMO. They didn't though and that's why ultimately he did little to nothing, maybe even moreso in this storyline than the last.

That's just my thoughts on the switcheroo of the two. It was never going to bring more prominance to Smoke like many were thinking, but more prominence to the cyborg storyline something they knew Sektor, Cyrax, and Smoke couldn't do, so they did it to Sub-Zero, unfortunately.

To really get why Smoke wasn't used more often in the original games, you have to remember that unlike other secret character clones like Jade and Noob, Smoke was pretty much just made into a robot version of Scorpion while he was initially absent during MK3, and didn't start getting his own moveset until his next appearance in MKD. They had learned that Scorpion couldn't just be replaced during the production of UMK3 and into MK4, so Smoke at that time wasn't necessary in terms of gameplay. Probably a big reason he was forgotten about (Heck, even Jade didn't show at all until MKD herself). It isn't really that they didn't want to do anything with the character, he just sort of got turned into a Scorpion stand-in who could in no way eclipse the popularity of Everyone's Favorite Yellow Ninja TM . And while he was gone, they figured they'd use his story to Cyrax's benefit because hey, he was sort of an original character.

Now, nobody ever said him becoming human would necessarily make him a more prominent character, myself least of all. I don't fool myself; Smoke's a B-lister at best, just as he was in the original games (if you could even call him a character back then). I'm not expecting him to start going toe-to-toe with Kahn or anything. But what turning him human does do is give us some insight as to what he's like as a person (whether people think he's an ass or not), and open up the way for him to get a plot of his own, which he's received, whether they touched on it in Story or not. Strictly speaking, prominence shouldn't be confused with potential for character growth. You can summarize Reptile's role in the story as "gets beaten up a lot". We all know he's got more to him than that. All it takes is one right direction in plot and bang - your character can be a superstar. They took Noob, made him into Sub-Zero's brother, and instant drama potential. That's the way I see Smoke's Enenra plotline. Now he can have central drive of his character - all he ever had - the struggle to retain his humanity - with the added bonus that now he retains his free will (unless they keep him as Quan's slave, in which case WTF NRS) and can make his own decisions about how to cope with what he is.

It's not a fault of Smoke turning human that he didn't get to do much really; most of the cast acted as varying degrees of supporting cast members for Raiden, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, and Shao Kahn. This decision to get MK's plot across through a cinematic story mode means you just have that many people competing for time in the spotlight. Considering that, I'm glad Smoke got what little he did. Wasn't like this when the entire background of the next game was constructed piece by piece using parts from most of the cast's prior endings. Now we have to take what we learn about them from those - in Smoke's case, a HELL of a lot - and kind of hope that they manage to bring it to a level of canon equal to or greater than what they consider to be the main plot - Story.

In addition, I'd like to point out in the original timeline, Sub-Zero's actions during the MK3 plotline were basically (possibly) reawaken Smoke, and fight off Cyrax and Sektor (reprogramming the former along the way) while helping out against Kahn - pretty much the same thing they would up doing here anyway until they were both killed. He didn't have a huge part, just kind of dealt with the loss of his friend, and, along with everyone else, probably paved the way for Liu to deal with Kahn. It's not like since their roles were switched, Smoke was magically going to have a lot to do in terms of overall plot importance at this point.

The fact that Smoke's number five on the all-time most selected characters list at the official site proves that the masses think they did something right with him at the very least. It's the popular ones who get called back, and I think he's guaranteed for the next game. If they're smart, they'll use his death as a tool to awaken his memories, or have Quan bring them to the fore, or something.

You make some good points on Smoke I can tell you're a really big fan.

A couple things though. Maybe not you but several were saying Smoke would take Sub-Zero's spot after this game, and what i was saying is that was never the case. That's not just me being a Sub-Zero fan either that was me being realistic. Like you said Smoke is a b-lister and I'm sure that if it would have been him being turned cyber he wouldn't have had two chapters dedicated to him. He's still a good character don't get me wrong, however, he wasn't going to replace Sub-Zero and that's were I tend to clash with Smoke fans I guess.

Also I feel a lot of Smoke's popularity in this game is his ease of play. He plays as easily if not more than Scorpion. He is part of the trifecta of Scorpion Smoke and Noob actually you could probably throw Ermac in there too.

It's like Kitana, I like Kitana, however I don't feel she is actually the most popular female character I feel that Sonya would take that by a mile, however Kitana is so easy to use when all you can do is throw fans all match and win. That's why she's the most popular female in this game.

I really don't understand why Sub-Zero is at number 3 though he is my main and extremely hard to use at times and it gets very frustrating when people online just spam teleports or projectile's. You really have to know how to use him. However, he's still number 3 which I think says a lot about his popularity because honestly he is one of the harder people to master.

I would agree with you now, but I would say Kitana USED to be the most popular, for a very long time.

The problem for Kitana is, Deadly Alliance was the last game where she had a strong, positive presence. They kept fucking Kitana over with poor portrayals and backstory retcons, at the same time as her love interest stopped being the main character of the series, so she stopped being both the most heroic and the most plot-centric female lead, and became a repeated damsel in distress, while Sonya simultaneously got more positive spotlight in MKA, vsDCU, and MK9.

I would argue that they seem to be pushing Mileena as the lead female character though this game definitely had the exact opposite reaction with the fans than NRS intended. Honestly I thought Sonya wasn't anything special. Not bad mind you but Stryker put her to shame

Well you can't compare her to Stryker when talking about "lead female", lol.

The fact of the matter is, for 3 games in a row now, Sonya is the female with the most positive portrayal and most presence. Mileena wasn't even in MKvsDCU and despite their attempts to promote her in 9, and even dismissing the complaints about the fucked up retcons in her backstory, she didn't have a chapter, while Sonya, Kitana, and even Jade did.
And of those three, Sonya's was the only chapter that was good. She accomplished goals and furthered things, saving Jax from the dungeon, getting a win over Kano, and making friends with the other "warriors of light" at the end. Kitana's chapter was just kinda demeaning, with Kahn being all "I am the generic villain which means I never loved you, you're a bad daughter, throw her in the dungeon bwah ha ha" and Jade's was almost entirely useless to the plot, possibly cutting room floor-worthy fluff.

Honestly, I don't think there was really was a "leading female" most of them became background characters after their chapter was over. (A common problem due to the stupid character chapter format) Incidentally, Jade's chapter is probably what made me believe Smoke was the second stupidest character next to only Raiden himself! I mean, really, confusing Mileena who's wearing pink for Kitana who should know has been wearing blue? Give me a break.

Well...there's also the fact that Sonya's the only female hero who lived...

And I really don't think it was for reasons then because "she was the leading female". I really think it's because NRS doesn't know what they're doing anymore... that whole thing was obviously very poorly thought out. After all, why else would they think Cyber Sub-Zero was such a good idea?

I don't know I guess it's just the eye of the beholder but I've always seen Sonya as the lead and favorite female fighter. Could just be me though.

However, I will agree with you ProudNintendofan NRS doesn't know what they're doing with the story anymore. It's all just one big clusterf**k of stupidity.

I've thought of so many different ways that the cyber thing could have turned out that would have been so much more creative and just storyline changes in general that would have just made more sense. It's just ridiculous the things they did to the story. I believe and will always believe that the Smoke and Sub-Zero switch was ultimately done just because it was the most obvious switcheroo they could pull. I still wonder if we are going to get payback for it as well being sub-zero fans. I'm thinking they will go one of two routes with the next game.

1. They feel enough time has passed so they leave him cyber completely and feel Sub-Zero fans will get over it. Which I for one will not.

2. They replace Sub-Zero all together with Frost. Which will majorly piss me off.

I just don't foresee good things in Sub-Zero's future.

I hope I'm wrong and he ends up alive and kicking and they just make the whole cyber mess magically disappear.lol. That's in my own fantasy world though and I'm okay with that.lol

Pretty much all the changes they made were unoriginal...

So Kitana is chained up in Kahn's Colliseum instead of Sonya? Whoop-de-doo, NRS... why was this done? Was it needed?

Okay,that's actually a valid point. This revelation was so brickshitting because no one,NO ONE saw it coming,made even more delicious by the fact that in retrospect,it was totally obvious. Still,I think there's a difference between dropping the big reveal onto the audience earlier than before and letting Sub-Zero find out what his brother has become when it'll have the most dramatic impact on his story. And that moment would be when the two brothers are at their respective peaks - Kuai at his most heroic (becoming his own man,taking over the Lin Kuei,discovering his cryomancer heritage) and Bi-Han at his most vile (killing Goro,forcing Smoke to do his bidding,planning his own rise to power).


Even Hsu Hao had potential. As Razor pointed out a while back,the whole "heartless warrior with no emotions" thing has ways to go. A person like that would surely be able to make something of himself in the Netherrealm. Imagine seeing him get twisted by its energies,transforming him into an Oni on par with Drahmin and Moloch... They could've really had him going somewhere in Armageddon.

I'm still holding out hope for MK10,though. If Stryker of all people managed to receive the Badass Makeover,I'd love to see how NRS would take on the challenge of redesigning Hsu Hao from the ground up.

NIGHTMARE MODE: MAKE HSU HAO AWESOME


He had a premonition about fucking Smoke of all people,for god's sake,and Smoke ultimately had nothing whatsoever to do with Armageddon or even the safety of Earthrealm in general. And yet you're telling me that when Sub-Zero,who would ultimately become one of the greatest defenders of Earthrealm and one of Raiden's most trusted allies,was about to be abducted and turned into a walking refrigerator,his spidey sense told him NOTHING? Nothing at all?

That's bullshit,man.

Eh...to be fair, Smoke was one of Raiden's chosen dudes according to his MK3 ending, so he was probably to some degree involved in keeping Earthrealm safe, as much as any other background member of Raiden's task force did. It adds a bit of credence to the notion that he did reacquire some degree of autonomy, enough to fight along with everyone else against Kahn's goons (inferred anyway as he was taken prisoner). I think it's fair for him to have a premonition about Smoke, if he can foresee other events involving his men, such as Cage dying at Motaro's hand.

Caveat: I'm tipsy as I'm posting this. Just weighing in.

Audience was already aware that Bi Han is Noob Saibot, so that's beside the point.
As for how revelation was done in MK9 I personally liked it, because at that very moment Bi Han and Kuai Liang were completely changed and deformed form what the once were. I found it quite symbolic and ironic.


Everyone has potential - even Mokap. Stryker actually was interesting idea done quite wrong in MK3. Hsu Hao was rather interesting concept, but done very wrong.
In the end there are many MK characters out there who deserved to be remade much more than Hsu Hao (Nitara, Hotaru). Hsu Hao just is not in top priority, considering how fanbase in general and even developers treat him. As for coldhearted person stereotype - there are plenty of those characters in MK.


I think in order to have vision about somebody, Raiden should encounter said person. He never encountered Sub-Zero until his capture and even then he couldn't have premonition about him becoming cyborg, since it never happened in the old timeline.

Besides his visions warned him, when something bad was about to happen (Sonya's execution, Noob's birth, Cage's death at the hands of Motaro, Smoke's capture). Ironically if that's the case, then Raiden couldn't have premonition about Sub-Zero because there was nothing bad in his future.

I like Cyber Sub-Zero as a playable character a lot. I don't like his bland name however. 'Cyber' doesn't even tell that he is a cybernetic organism aka cyborg thus the word is misleading. I tend to call him Kyber Sub-Zero since 'kyber' is Finnish and 'K' is the way to go with MK.
The most sensible name for Cyber Sub-Zero would have been Tundra seeing Kuai Liang was called that in Story Mode at a time and the original Sub-Zero, Bi-Han, even mocked Kuai Liang of being 'Sub-Zero' as a cyborg. Kuai Liang no longer followed Sub-Zero's legacy nor looked like one.
It's funny how nobody mistook Kuai Liang to be Bi-Han when he wore almost the same attire, wore a mask, held the same name and followed his legacy altogether. Yet still, Mileena was badly mixed up with Kitana during Story Mode.

CSZ? No, I mean...

Honestly, I still believe that Sub-Zero finding out his brother was Noob Saibot should've been saved for the next game when Shinnok's invasion would've taken center stage. This game it really wasn't needed.

Yeah, that whole bit of Sonya being executed.. but the thing is she was NEVER executed in the old timeline, if nothing bad happened as you imply then he shouldn't have gotten an image and even then if he had left it alone, things would've been fine.

And Motaro supposedly wasn't the murderer of the Johhny Cage in OT...but alas, retcons.

It was told that the extermination squads killed Cage during MK3 (old timeline) and Motaro was their commander.
Full story

I know this story, but it never was said that exactly Motaro was the one who finished Cage. You can assume anything, but without proof that could go both ways.
In his ending he want revenge against specific group of exterminators. If Motaro was the one who finished him, he should've been mentioned at least in some capacity. It's not a solid proof, but at least something.

I don't qualify this as a retcon, there was nothing that directly said Motaro WASN'T the one who killed him.

Yet, there is nothing that states that it was him.
This situation could be approached either way, so I think it would be wise to agree that we are disagree about that. Even if I hate such kind of statements.

It is not retcon because Motaro's actions could have happened in the past timeline. It's just deeper story telling.

Zmoke and PNF are right, a retcon is defined as when something is changed from what it used to be.

Since we didn't know who killed Johnny, saying that it's Motaro is not a retcon, simply an addition of missing information.