Yes they did. Again, what the hell are you talking about, where do you get these ideas? Do I really need to look up that chapter of MKA Konquest on Youtube and get screengrabs, or can you be bothered to look for yourself and see that they're all wearing similar goddamn armor and helmets to Sektor's, with no visible skin, and every single one that talks has an electronic filter on their voice to sound robotic?
Maybe they sounded like they had emotions or personalities, but y'know what other supposedly soulless, emotionless cyborg sounds emotional when he talks? SEKTOR.

Okay.. so who is up for a Mortal Kombat Reboot: The Time Fix

Easy, there. Calm down.
No one abuses your dog or something.

As for the Tekunin warriors as far as I remember there were several different types of them and some of them didn't look like they had Sektor-like armor.


No sane person.
Only some old-timers and there are not taking seriously due to a big bias towards their own perception of the MK mythos.

@ Human Subz forever I'm completely up for that.lol

Honestly I have seen plent of detractors of the story.

The only ones who I have seen like it are just people trying to add gas to the flame of people who hate it.

And the people who do like it should watch it again and see some of the needless retcons in that crap. If not just the storyline changes, look at the crap that Raiden didn't mess with and was just changed for changing it. Like Mileena's story in general.lol. That was such crap and made her such an idiot as a character. She's just a monster now, like Baraka, Reptile, heck half of the bad guys in this game because they didn't even get chapters.

My idea is that every character should have their own story of 5-10 fights. Like DOA 4.

It was just a joke, the story that is, I hate it because of cyber subz first and foremost, but with the exception of MK 1 part, that story sucked in general. I will give it MK1 they did a decent job there, except for people being there that shouldn't be there yet.

I think they need to rethink half of the things they did here and yes, re-do it. When you like the endings 10 times more than you liked the story. Something is wrong. Jade's ending for one was awesome.

Half the f**king cast dying was dumb as well, and everyone says hey they can bring in characters from MK4-MKA. Yea because those characters were so great, and that will go over extremely well having classic characters dead and slaves while characters with mixed reactions get all of the spotlight. It's just going to blow up in their face I feel. Like I say that's my opinion, but I feel it will. MK has declined once and doing sh*t like this will only make it happen again.

The gameplay this time was pretty phenomenal, I'm not going to lie. It is way more fun than anything the past few games have produced. However, if everyone would jump off of MK's and NRS's balls and get their new game goggles off they would realize this story is complete trash.

If, hypothetically, people did like this story more than the old story, it's because most of these people didn't experience the first story in it's time like a lot of longtime MK fans did. These new fans go back and read what happened in the original timeline and say it sucks because they have seen this new story first, so in their eyes it is better. Therefore longtime fans, to them the new fans, are idiots and should get used to change because now they are the majority, which to me makes the MK team sellouts. They cater to new fans with their new story, and their guest characters so that in the end they can make a little money, but in the end their longtime fans suffer for it, and they forget that it's those same fans that have kept them afloat for the past 10 or so years. Putting food on their tables.

I'm not trying to hate everyone does it, and a lot would sell out for the right amount of money. However, I question whether I want to be on the bandwagon, because I think the new story sucks, and following this story I wonder if I'm going to get any kind of payback for this crap in the future. Because obviously I'm not being catered to anymore, the new fans are. I mean will Sub-Zero even get any sort of redemption?

They could easily just write Sub-Zero off in the next game. I mean look what they did to him in this game, it's trash. It reminds me of what WWE does with wrestlers before they get rid of them. They job them out and make them look bad then release them. They've made Sub-Zero look bad in this game so they can easily write him out in the next game, that or he will have a major comeback. I want the second option to play out, however, with Frost in their pocket I feel they will try to pull this. Then, they're beloved Scorpion can have even more spotlight. People may think I'm crazy for having the opinion that Sub-Zero won't be there next game, but everyone thought Cyber Subz wouldn't happen either and we were all shocked when it did. I am of the opinion the characters that died in this game will show up in scenes and such, but they will not be playable in the next game.

Anyway enough of the rant I got my opinions on the new story off my chest now.

There may have been more than one design for the Tekunin grunts you fight, every group in the game had I think two to four different costume designs, based mostly on there being generic guys and then guys with a special weapon or move that made them slightly tougher. I recall the Tekunin all looking the same or the differences being very very subtle, though. I know for certain they were all variations of Sektor-like armor. The whole point of the Tekunin is that every single one is a cyborg.

Probably you are right afterall.
I remebered that they had different designs than Sektor armor, so I aasumed that not everyone are the cyborgs. Still it was never said that everyone at the Tekunin are complete cyborgs.


LOL. Fanboish childish rant at it's best. Or worst. Depends of what kind of entertainment some people like.

And the idea that everyone who loves the story are trolls, people enamored with gameplay who doesn't pay attention to the story or sellouts is...well...let's just it's what I expected from you. Harsh, exaggerated and most of all...childish.

Also, assumption that people who loves story of MK9 doesn't see its shortcomings is quite absurd. There were tonnes of posts from people who liked new storyline, but wasn't OK with some of its aspects. Of course you seemingly prefer to make it look like it never happened. Typical for the fanboy to turn everything on it's head in order to "proove" they rightness.

I said before that I'm not intended to waste my time on kind like you, I already had my share of crazy fanboys, but such crazy rant deserved some rebuttal I think.

Here's his Deadly Alliance Tournament Edition bio:

"Sektor's programming had had become corrupted during his many violent battles with Outworld Forces. His new objective was to eliminate the inferior Grand Master of the Lin Kuei and to control the clan himself. He succeeded in slaying the former leader, but was prevented from aquiring the powerful dragon medallion by Sub-Zero, who defeated Sektor in an intense battle. Sektor then fled to Japan to form his own clan of cybernetic ninjas."
And his ending:

All the bios and endings of the characters added in Tournament Edition (Sektor, Noob Saibot, and Sareena) are canon and set up the plots that those characters followed in Deception and Armageddon. This is the first mention in the series of the Tekunin and the reason there is a Tekunin clan in Armageddon.
So yeah, the whole point of the clan is every single member is a cyborg. They are a cyborg clan, that is the purpose of their existence. It's even right in their name. Tech-ninjas. Tekunin.

Well, small semantics, Tek-means iron. More like Iron Ninjas, or more precisely Iron Underground.


Yes, fear Sektor and his minions with their l337 spray canister skillz and ability to spraytag every possible metro station in Tokyo.

Pfft. It's called opinion. Sorry but I had to reply to you on this. I am so sick of you just in general. I stated my disgust and yes some very true words about this game in regards to story mode in general.

I kept my "fanboyish" opinions of Sub-Zero out of that rant for the most part and looked at the rest of the story for what it was trash. I even gave it props in parts like MK1, but you don't even look at that. Yes, I did give my thoughts on them probably not bringing back Sub-Zero as it seems very logical at this point, but I discussed other things much more heavily than Sub-Zero in that rant.

You know what RedSumac from now on you are not RedSumac you are fanboy to me. Because it's your favorite word. It's the thing you throw out when someone else has an opinion that doesn't meld with yours so from now on fanboy seems like a fitting name for you. or would you prefer Red "Fanboy" Sumac.lol. Not everyone's opinion is going to be the same as yours.

Also I never once in that post said I'm going to pretend like story didn't happen. I said NRS should make like this story didn't happen, nothing short of setting my arse on fire could make me forget this horrible story. Never called MK fans sellouts either. I called Ed boon and some of NRS sellouts. When the main writer can't comment on the story that's supposed to be his, John Vogel, then something's fishy. Just look at Vogel's reply to ProudNintendofans story review and you will see what I mean. It's obvious that MK was going under before this, so thankgod someone, WB, came along and picked them up. However, if they were going to kill half of the cast and go in a new direction then they should have just continued on from Armageddon and left the old story alone. There was no need to change the old story because it was good as is. Now theyve changed it completely and it's like the old story never even happened. Which I feel, look at that too Red "Fanboy" Sumac, "I" feel that kind of spits in the faces of the old fans a little bit. We liked that story and wanted to see it actually happen in motion. Instead we get this crap, and it's frustrating to say the least.

Also look up a lot of the "new" fans if you want to know what I'm talking about in regard to story. Half of these new bandwagon fans don't even know what the story was about in the old timeline, yea again that's my opinion but look up some non mk sites and see them talking about MK9. Youtube would be a good one. They like the gameplay and the story hardly matters, which again makes me question why not just give us, the longtime fans, the old story in detail, with the same gameplay. Would it not please, BOTH, audiences to a good degree?

Now Red "fanboy" Sumac please do not reply back to this as this thread doesn't need to turn into an argument between the two of us, and if you do reply please at least give me the pleasure of an argument that doesn't involve fanboy because you used it at least 3 times in your last argument. In fact your arguments aren't even arguments, it's just namecalling.

I think they were going more for a "spell it different so it sounds cool or foreign", like "X-treme" instead of "extreme" or "combat/cabal/sector/cobra/havoc with a K" thing, rather than a genuine foreign language thing.

Not really. Since Teku has been used how many times even in fighting games? Tekujin from Tekken, The title TEKken in itself, etc.

And since it was a creation of Vogel who managed to dig up old canaanite deities like Moloch AND take care that the final phoneme is spelled as a K, I think it is fairly obvious they did the rudimentary research.

Though the overlap is uncanny.

Btw, most probably Kabal =/= the loanword cabal. Why would you name a an overgrown Star Wars sand person crossed with kung fu hookswords after jewish sect units? Most probably they simply liked the sound of the phrase.

^ That's not the only meaning for cabal though, it could also mean. "a small group of secret plotters, as against a government or person in authority", which makes perfect sense because the Black Dragon is a group that has an adversarial situation with the government (Special Forces).

Yeah, "secret sect" is the most common definition of "cabal" by far.

I wish I still had that old MK3 strat guide full of creator interviews and little meaningless stats about the characters like "favorite color", "favorite song", etc. I'm sure I remember they say on Kabal's page outright that's where they got the name.
I like how whenever I'm arguing with Chrome and he's in "real world history and language" mode, even when he's wrong I feel like I'm losing something...

I love the both of you guys, let's just smoke a joint and get along!

Because I am not and you are. Not all interpretations are mutually exclusive. Something that you still fail to grasp in it's entirety sometimes.

Now since I have exhausted my portion of the "snide remark exchange show"...

And as I recall we were discussing the Tekunin, not Kabal as distracted as we might have been. If they got his name from a cabal, then fine if you have got evidence.

I have the fun facts about MK3 characters pages, were they ever released in some kind of printed book or guide? I practically own most of the MK2-3 stuff they released. Apparently not all.

Yeah, what you have are probably partial scans of pages out of the guide. Those lists of favorite blah blah blah from MK3 were just sidebars, each character got a full two-page spread in the book and the rest of the two pages was an interview with Boon and Tobias about how they created each character where they explained for the first time all that old stuff most people know now like "Sektor and Cyrax's beta names were Ketchup and Mustard" or "the inspiration for having a centaur in MK was a Micronauts action figure." Sometimes the descriptions went deeper than that, though, for instance I remember Tobias going into why Kahn wanted to bring Sindel back to life - that he actually does truly love her and it hurt him when she killed herself.

I don't remember Smoke having a page though. He'd be the only character in the original MK3 who didn't get one. Granted, I could be remembering wrong about that one, but if I'm not, they were probably still trying to keep him a secret at the time since the book came out when the game was released in arcades.
What I remember most vividly about the book is the character art wasn't done by Tobias, it was one of those artists from Malibu Comics with the terrible Rob Liefeld-esque style that was big in the 90's where everything's pointy angles and too much hatching, and ALL the strategy guides back then, including this one, ALWAYS showed Shao Kahn with his helmet off, to the point where as a kid I always used to wonder if the artists making these things ever looked at the games and noticed his head wasn't bare, he was wearing a skull-shaped mask. Which is funny now that they NEVER show his face and some people will even argue that the spiky forehead isn't canon for some dumb reason since his face has only been seen in Shaolin Monks.
I think Queve has the book. Or at least, the last time I saw scans, I think he was the one who posted them, either him or Leo, sometimes I get the Sonya fans mixed up.

http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=62661
Here is a topic with dossiers for characters, scanned by Queve from his book.

I just got to thinking.

People who say to bring Bi Han back as Sub-Zero, how would that happen?

Technically even though he is cyber Kuai Liang is still Sub-Zero dead or not. He may be Quan's slave, but so are Kitana, Jax, Kung Lao, Jade, etc., and unless they all stay dead forever they would have to explain why are there two sub-zero 's again because technically Kuai Liang is still Sub-Zero.

He's even announced as Sub-Zero, so I think Bi-Han becoming Sub-Zero again just doesn't seem logical. Also, I feel like, with this game anyway, they wanted to solidify that Sub-Zero is Kuai Liang.

Bi Han started as Sub-Zero but he didn't even get a chapter as Sub-Zero and assuming he was neutral or good when he was alive, like some assume, it seems like they would have gave him his own chapter if they wanted him to be remembered as Sub-Zero. Kuai Liang had not one, but two chapters in Storymode as Sub-Zero,even though one is cyber, so I feel he will stay Sub-Zero, if there hypothetically is a sub-zero in the next game.

You have a point that Cyber-Sub-Zero is still using the name "Sub-Zero". So if Kuai returns in the next game (which he will because they already told us ahead of time Quan Chi is totally gonna use those guys as soldiers, that's the whole reason he has their souls), whether he's a zombie, a robot, a robot zombie, or something else, "Sub-Zero" will still be his name, preventing Bi-Han from taking it back.

I would have had Cyber Subby in the MK when Shinnok got free of the Netherrealm. I have a hypothesis: If Cyber Sub didnt get his ass handed to him by Stryker(which I still dont understand), things would have played differently like Ermac wouldnt have followed the sounds of them fighting and got beaten(I dont understand that either), Raiden probably wouldn't have came and deemed him "EarthRealm Defender" and everybody wouldnt have died.

Oh don't worry, I am assure I am not fond of your childish antics either.
And what makes you think that your statements are "true"? Did anyone authorized you to make "true" statements?
That's what I am talking about - childishness at it's best.

Besides opinion could be stated calmly. What you've displayed is more in line with childish temper tantrum. Without much of a logical comprehension.

I read that part about you praising MK1 part of storyline. However in the big picture it didn't saved your rant (and you stated yourself that's its rant, not calmly weighted opinion) from coming across like a fanboish rage at changes introduced in the story mode. The main complain I saw there was "things are different, because of it story sucks". Quite a far cry from your intention of making "true statements". Not that you undrestand it, I'm afraid. Ha-ha-ha.

You know what my slogan in the internet discussions: "Moderation never was popular enough to be the dying art".

I'm not about who is right and who is wrong. And not about judging absolutley everyone for what they like or dislike. Everyone have different opinions based on they tastes, knowledge, experince and the like. There is no common formula that could be aplicable to people and what they like, no matter what some scientists and critics say in they "holy quest" to classify everything and everyone.

I am strongly against unfounded or rather ill-based opinions, that some times some people spouting too loudly. Opinions that are based on nostalgia glasses, obsessions with certain characters or opinions that based on confusion of they own ideas with oficial storyline.
You may like it or not, but seems most of your hatred for the storyline goes from the fact that your favorite characters was mistreated in your opinion. Thus creating a bias against not only story that was given to your favorite character, but the story as a whole. In its turn it's give of the vibe of childishness, when individual let only one aspect of the story to create hatred to the story as the whole.
So, it's not about difference in opinions. It's more about weight of opinions and they basis.

Why exactly NRS sellouts?
I mean, even if I take your position for a minute and imagine that story of MK9 was genuinly bad, it's just make them bad writers, not sellouts. Another confusion on your side it seems.

As for Vogel - I believe he is bound by corporative rules and couldn't say much about what was really intention with this stoyrline. Not that it definitely truth, but thinking that don't reply because he afraid to admit that he wrote bad story or some thing ike that, stinks of fanboish paranoia, when people trying to find any reason to make big corporation look EVUL and blame them for ruining the story instead of precious NRS.

I feel like they combined they idea of "cleaning the roster" and rebboting MK'verse. Essentially they pushed they initial idea and wrapped it into reamke of the first three games. It was a bold move and it was certainly hard too pull of, but as for me they made it succesfully and I hope that they will continue with that direction, keeping MK roster and diversive, unlike most of the rival fighting games.

As for me it's ridicolous to take such things as remake of your favorite story that close to a heart. Mainly because of two reasons:
1) This story never belonged to you in the first place. No matter how much time and imagination you put in your own idea of how MK'verse is, it was never yours and thinking that NRS "own you something" and "insult you", when they decide to use they property, which of they rightfull owners I must add, however they want is quite ridicolous. If you'd own MK then it would be another talk. Since you're not, such statements come across as the fanboish tantrum.
2) No one steal your old games. You still can enjoy them. It's not like exixstence of MK9 destroy your old games or something.
3) Taking close to a heart imaginable things is normal for a human being. However there is a fine line between taking it close and taking it TOO close. No need to cross it. Though for you it maybe a bit too late, I think.

It's not the fault of the "new" fans that they were born after 2D MK was at it's prime. While I am support the idea that if you are a fan of some universe you must go and read some information about it, it's not should be mandatory. Besides there are gamers that are care only about gameplay. I could understand such position too.

For example I am a fan of Castlevania. Some people see in this series deep and involving storyline, while I never saw anything like (except for some "good" to "average" to "horrible" writing) and primarily play the series for it's gameplay. Caring only about gameplay is not a bad and not a crime in any capacity. Heck, some people didn't even take video games stories seriously (I could understand that too, but less).

As for your question, I couldn't answer it since I don't know what exactly went thrugh the heads of NRS staff / writers. I only can assume that they didn't want to repeat all the story form MK1-MK3. Maybe because they didn't want to plain repeat it, maybe because they didn't want to fail expectations of the fans about how old storyline could look like. Another reason could be that they wanted to tie this game to MKA, and that was they primary target and rebbot was like a side-effect of it. Maybe they just wnat to try and make another take on on the old story, but with the new ideas. I couldn't be sure. No-one can, aside from NRS writers and producers. Not even, my selfrighteous oppnent.
All I can say I don't blame them for that decision, whatever they reasons were.

Namecalling was a side-effect of your own statements which were full of immature rush and were logicless. I rarely, if at all put commit myself to specialy insult someone anyone. And if anything I wouldn't do that without a good reason. And you gave me a plenty of reasons for this.


Since CSZ is, presumably, a zombie-slave of Quan Chi, why should he care that someone took his new moniker?

And for that matter why Bi-Han should care about it in the first place? Assuming he repeats Scorpion's feat and ends up in Heaven where he is cleaned from darkness and turns back into human. Supposedly all that he would know is that Kuai Liang is dead, no matter cyborg or not. Technically at this point there wouldn't be any single obstacle in taking back his nickname / title.

Of course Bi-Han may felt uncomfortable or outright hateful to the idea of taking his old "name" back, partially because he was killed while bearing that name. He could assume that his days as "Sub-Zero" are over and refuses to take this title.
Or he could take it to honor his junior brother, puting interesting spin on MK4 Sub-Zero's storyline. Than, when Kuai Liang (inevitably) would be freed from Quan Chi influence he could give this title back to him saying something to the effect that "his days as Sub-Zero are over and he gladly gives the mantle to the new generation as it's should be". Bi-Han himself goes into shadows and creates himself a new idetity or just retires. Or maybe dies.
Well that's how it couldbe.
Note: I'am just shooting random sugestions.

My main complaint is that "things are actually WORSE now, because of it story sucks".

There is a difference.

In fact,I'm actually going to ask you to list off any characters who have benefited from better developments in this game compared to their original storylines. Aside from Stryker and maybe Kabal,I can't really think of anyone who survived the reboot unscathed.




How about opinions that are based on the belief that any changes to the established chronology,no matter how asinine,contrived or destructive to the integrity of the storyline,are inherently beneficial simply because they are supposedly "fresh" or "different"?

Are those considered to be ill-based opinions? Just a bit,maybe?




When 95% of the characters in the game end up getting "mistreated" in the course of a reboot,I think it's safe to say that there just might be something wrong here.



You know,this is the exact same argument used by the Star Wars apologists who staunchly refuse to admit to themselves that George Lucas fucking murdered his treasured franchise and hollowed out its corpse.

I mean literally word for word.


We don't have to "own" a franchise to love and appreciate it. Just like we don't have to "own" a franchise to recognize when people in charge of it are running it into the ground.


We've been over this.

The fact that the storylines of all of these old games ultimately led to EVERYONE DIES is horseshit on its own. But the ultimate insult is the fact that this new bullshit overwrote everything that came before it,undoing everything all of these characters have achieved and fought for.



There were ways to retell the story of the original games and introduce a new generations of players to MK in a way that did not involve a bunch of sloppy,nonsensical retcons and dumbed-down characters.


Out of curiosity,what would NRS have to do to the storyline to make you actually say "okay,this is bullshit and you guys don't know what you're doing"? Does it have to be something Shaolin Monks-bad?



Huh.

I actually haven't thought about that possibility.

I'm not entirely sure I like it,though. Not to mention that getting reborn into a completely new being along with an alignment change TWICE in the course of one game would be kinda stupid.

I suppose it would be a way to move a story somewhere,but the problem with that is that he'd ultimately just be ripping off Scorpion's MKD storyline,and Scorpion did it better,because he actually was actually the one guy whose eventual redemption was a major part of his character arc since the very beginning. Whereas the whole thing about Bi Han is that he's a irredeemable asshole who deserved everything that was coming to him. It wouldn't really make sense for the Elder Gods to single him out as their potential emissary.

Then again,it's been firmly established that the Elder Gods are fucking assholes themselves,so who knows.

Well said on pretty much everything T-rex that's why I like you to comment on things because you are much better with words than I am.lol.

I get lost on my own thoughts sometimes.lol

I don't know why you guys argue with RedSumac. It's not like he's going to be convinced and change his tune.