Look, man. I'm not doing any of this "Raiden is a pussy 'cause he should've done this instead of that" or "Shaolin Monks is half-canon" stuff.

That shit is opinions. I'm not interested in it. I'm doing facts right now.
And it's a fact that Raiden doesn't lose his powers in his mortal form in the games. He can still control lightning, teleport, and fly.

Is then an opinion that if Raiden kills Blaze in MK1-3 era doesn't happen nothing, and Raiden doesn't absorb his energy.

And Trilogy, well... in UMK3/Trilogy we have also "Classic" Sub-Zero. And Human Smoke. And you and me knows that both appearances are non-canon. What thing makes Raiden's appareance canon? Nothing. His relevance to the story is zero. Give him a bios/ending and make him playable doesn't make always canon his appearance. And I remember you that the story is always been retconected with the next game. And Shaolin Monks > Trilogy > MK2. And this is another FACT.

Oh no. I'm not having another one of these stupid "Which bios in Trilogy are canon and which aren't" conversations.
Anyone I have to argue what is and isn't canon with isn't WORTH arguing with in the first place because we're not equals. My ACTUAL peers like ]{ombat and XiahouDun know the fucking difference between a Classic Sub-Zero bio and a Raiden bio.

They wouldn't matter to the point at hand anyway. Your whole argument was "Raiden loses his powers in Outworld" and I've proved he doesn't. He just has to become a mortal and in that form all he loses is immortality.

When the game comes out., alot of people are gonna realize they looked way 2 deep into this whole subject. Blaze? Armageddon is over not to mention you'd have to be a real biologist to know who "Torch" was back in those days. Quan Chi? He was in MK:4, but it's more realistic he's in then Blaze. C'mon yo! lol

Because we hate the newer fans! Fuck them for not knowing things!

... because a dancing flame on legs was so hard to see on a dark background?

I know you're saying it as a joke but there's a difference between not knowing and acting like you do anyway like an annoying noob trying to get quick "cred"...and not knowing and ADMITTING you don't know and showing a willingness to learn FROM the experts.

it's about respect, demeanor, and IQ. A good 75% of the reason I talk to people about Mortal Kombat is because I DO have the story memorized and have analyzed its ins and outs above and beyond the average fan, to a point of obsessive nerdiness, and I enjoy actually SHARING my knowledge with other people. But I don't have time for people with a bad attitude who act like they know better than I do when they can barely spell at a high school level.

I remember that all the argue between us started when you stated as a fact something that in all ways it's just your opinion. You can deny my knowledges about MK, but like all the "if you kill Blaze before the pyramid rises and Blaze become final boss size, nothing happens" it's just an opinion.

You can prove that Raiden in Outworld it's still powerful but mortal, good... you can't prove that Shaolin Monks isn't canon, you can't prove the effects of Blaze death before Armageddon, and you can't prove other things, because like much of all fans, YOU'RE ASSUMING. And that (assume), it's probably the worst thing in our community.

Non-Guilty. Case Closed.

I wouldnt mind blaze give him his MK:DA look and alot more cooler moves then and two awesome fatalitys but if he looks like he did (which I seriously doubt he will) in MK:A 4get it

We will also get Clancy The Living Tree who is a totally canon and assists Noob Saibot.

Oh but I can, actually. Very thoroughly.

I shouldn't HAVE to prove common knowledge. It offends me to do so. But since you ASK to be treated like a kindergartner, then I will indeed take you to school. BEHOLD!

Point 1) The plot of Shaolin Monks revolves around Shang Tsung, disguised as Raiden, tricking Liu Kang and Kung Lao into killing Baraka, Reptile, Jade, Scorpion, and Goro so he can take their souls. Then they kill Shang Tsung and Kintaro. Then they kill Shao Kahn.

And MK3 is supposed to happen after this game. And all of these characters are still alive in MK3.

Also, Quan Chi picks up an amulet he's supposed to ALREADY HAVE from Kahn's corpse?

When asked about the discrepancies, the developers flat-out told us "the fatalities aren't supposed to be part of the story, they're just in there to make the end of the fights more interesting"...but then they made the fatalities part of Shang's plot in the story, contradicting themselves and proving that they never truly intended this game to be a serious and accurate version of events.

Point 2) Midway released promotional material for Armageddon, which came out AFTER Shaolin Monks was released, in which Scorpion and Sub-Zero's backstories include the vow of protection from the original version of MK2, thus proving that the original MK2 is canon to the company while Shaolin Monks is not.

There. Two seperate kinds of undeniable FACTUAL EVIDENCE that Shaolin Monks is not and never has been in-continuity with the main series.
The ACTUAL events of Mortal Kombat 2 are the heroes went to Outworld for a tournament, Raiden fought in it in mortal form, Scorpion made friends with younger Subbie, and Mileena (and maybe Kintaro) was the only character who died. THAT is the official canon, and apparently you're the only person around who didn't get the memo.

Oh, and on an unrelated note, I just remembered something going back to my point on an earlier page about how killing Quan Chi can't stop him.

At the time, I had said "there's no proof Quan Chi teleported away from Raiden's suicide, so he may have already died and come back."

I forgot, there is actually proof that he did die in the blast. Raiden's MKA bio tells about how when they were destroyed, Raiden's soul, Shang's soul, and Quan Chi's soul battled and got tangled on their ways to the afterlife and that's part of the reason why Raiden was reborn as Dark Raiden.

You're completely right about Quan Chi. And, in other hand, is something very weird. Raiden if he selfdestructs himself don't die, only "reboot" himself. Okay. Shang Tsung can't die, because his soul is tied to Shao Kahn, and can create other body to collect new souls. Okay, good. But the "if die and this person is evil, he goes to Netherrealm... when Shinnok can revive him as his minion" justification probably sucks more than the non-dies of Shao Kahn & Goro in Deception.

And this is my last post in these concrete thread (I swear), but my point was always show you that your opinion about the effects of "Raiden killing Blaze" is a very questionable theory. Probably I'm not a cathedratic in the Edenian University of Knowledge (I'm from the Netherrealm Academy of Sapience :P), and probably that wasn't my best defense/exposition, but mainly because english isn't my mother language (it's my third language). And well, Raiden & Blaze aren't precisely my favourite characters to talk about them.

Trust me, I'm very expert about the story (perhaps sometimes a little... errr... liberal...), and a very long time fan (I started with MK1 with 7-8 years, and UMK3 is the MK game that most hours I player ever), and the last thing that I want is a bad behavior with another expert. Peace.

Unless, of course, MK9's revised history is in-step with SM. That being the fun of reboots.

I don't think anything from SM would really fit within the "Raiden sorta knows the future and is trying to change it" premise of 9 except possibly the killing of lots of characters.

But even so, it's an alternate timeline anyway. After MK9, there will be TWO canons. Like the Marvel universe and the Ultimate Marvel universe.

Clearly, I've missed something. What's this post MK9 'second universe' you speak of? It was my understanding that MK9's reboot is replacing the ye olde canon, not running along side it.

Replacing it would result in a paradox.

If Dark Raiden never experiences Armageddon and sends the message to his past self, his past self never changes the future to avoid Armageddon.

All fiction that doesn't want to tell a story about a paradox destroying the universe thus uses alternate realities as an excuse for how the past can be changed instead. It's not a Mortal Kombat thing, it's a universal law of sci-fi and fantasy writing.
Granted, there will be no more games set in the Armageddon timeline either way because it apparently ends in destruction, so you can still technically use the word "replace" to describe what's going on here.
It's just semantics, really.

Well, (yes, me again... sorry), MKSM doesn't replace MK2, but clarify/expans MK2, with some licences (like Boss Fatalities). Canon things like Scorpion killing Elder Sub-Zero, Kitana killing Mileena and Scorpion vowing protection to Younger Sub-Zero isn't show in the game (and nothing in the game contradict that things), because isn't the reason game.

And the amulet in the ending, well... Quan Chi couldn't have it in these moment. And before argue that, I want a REALLY good argument to explain how Quan Chi could cheat Shinnok during 6 years (MKM to MK4. If I remember well, are 6 years between those games, but maybe now I confuse the time between MK1 and MK4. I'm sure that are 2 years between MKM and MK1, and 10 between MK1 and MKDA.). Because I don't understand this, neither how Shinnok waits all this time to escape of Netherrealm, and with the help of a cheated Sindel. The theory? Shinnok/Quan Chi recover the amulet after the Heavens' massacre (after Shinnok forces leaving Netherrealm).

That would apply if Raiden were a man, but as a God, his knowledge of future events can be written off as a form of omnipotence. Also, since MK's world is more reliant on magic than science, the logic of time paradoxes may not apply.

I hate to borrow from Joe Quesada, but this is very much a case of "It's magic. We don't have to explain it."

Yeahhhhh...no, that doesn't really fly. a paradox is a paradox whether you're a magic god or George Carlin with a telephone booth.
This conversation doesn't matter anyway. Whether there's two timelines or one, there's still always going to be two Canons, the way things were and the way things are now.
People are still going to be having conversations ten years from now about how in the original Mortal Kombat games, Sub-Zero's younger brother got a scar, took over the clan, and trained Frost, even if the one in this game gets turned into a robot. There's no changing that.

We'll see, but I'm just not buying into the 'alternate timeline / universe' theory.

Also, George Carlin is a magic God.

That's the charm of combining the reboot and the sequel, though. This is the rare case where both old and new compromise one canon. Very post-crisis, which is funny what with WB and all.

Well the interesting thing is, science-fiction tropes don't ask for anyone's approval, they just ARE.

Besides, like I said, this is just an exercise in semantics. Even if Armageddon's timeline is one universe and the timeline Raiden changes is an alternate universe, the Armageddon universe still dies at the end.

But the interesting thing is, adapting the new canon into other media will be kind of impossible, it's a "I had to tell you that story in order to tell you this one" scenario. So they'll have to keep going back to the plots of the original games. Raiden knowing the future and trying to change it only makes sense as a story if the viewer knows what the original was like too and can tell the differences.

Well DC doesn't make you have to read Crisis in order to understand Superman: Man of Steel.

That.



And that.

I don't buy it in Lost (thanks god that finally wasn't that) and for MK9, will be the first time that I would care more about fighting part than the story part.

I don't say that I won't play the story mode, maybe will be fun, but right now I don't care really about the story until MK10. Then, if Netherrealm Studios only they left characters with really they can evolve, and a modern generation (MK4-MKAr + New Characters) are introduced to be the main core in the future games, I will "open my eyes" to the new storyline. If not, basically for me the MK story dies after Deception, and maybe I will stay play future MK games, but like Street Fighters, for fun and competitive, not for passion like now.