I can only imagine what Ryu fans are like after reading this thread. Good lord.

Street Fighter fans are trained to expect the same story and the same costumes game after game. It's a different aesthetic entirely.

I LOVE those concepts by Jax007. Seriously, his designs are far
superior to anything the MK team has come up with for any of
their own characters. I could totally see Kitana in both those outfits.
And I agree with you, changing Kitana's signature color wouldn't be
a good idea. Blue is her trademark in much the same way her steel
fans are her trademark. Change her primary color and you might as
well just rename her and make a new character. That's kind of the
equivalent of changing Scorpion's primary color to green or red.

Maybe it shouldn't be.

Anyone who thinks Sindel has no potential has no imagination. In a world like MK where anything can happen, it's possible for any characters to step out of their stale, lackluster positions. Just look at Johnny Cage. There's your indisputable evidence. Since you didn't know that, I recommend you never pursue writing.

You can't be serious about Sareena right? Probably the only thing Sindel is praised for, since she has no story or importance, is her appearance. And you compare her to Sareena who can be topped by anyone who shops at Hot Topic?

And Sindel wasn't the reason Kitana wasn't in MKD. It was Jade.

Look-wise, I think Kitana needs to drop the ninja look altogether. Mileena did so and it did great things for her. I still regret that Mileena's primary didn't become Kitana's. We would not be discussing costume changes for her had that been the case.

Story-wise, I only see her going downhill unless she emerges with new goals and conflicts.

Those are indeed great concepts. I'd only change Kitana's colour scheme if she were to remain the ruler of Edenia. For the main purpose that her story likely wouldn't be changing, so at least her look does. With graphics and game engines getting stronger and stronger, identifying a character by colour is no longer needed. I'm not really wording what I am trying to convey in the best way possible, I understand that. Basically, I think Kitana switching things up if she remains Edenia's ruler would be good because we're in a new era, a darker era, and a more advanced era, technology-wise. Much like putting the X-Men in spandex for the Brett Ratner movie would have been awkward, Kitana keeping a constant costume design for the next games might be a bit...tacky.

That being said, if she does abandon the throne, a similar theme could very well work -- obviously with a sexier and edgier trend. But regardless of what you do, I don't think that changing Kitana's primary colour from blue, for at least one costume, would make her seem like an entirely new character. That might be stretching it a little.

As for Sindel, I feel that she is nowhere near as interesting as Kitana as far as story goes. My thoughts pretty much echo RazorsEdge on her. She did serve a fantastic purpose for MK3. She was pretty much the inciting incident for the story, which gave her great dramatic purpose, indeed. But after she was turned by Kitana, restored to the good side of things, I don't think there was a need for her anymore. Her story came to a close with remembering and honouring her dead husband, and true ruler of Edenia. I imagined her being killed by Shinnok when he initially took Edenia, giving Kitana a bitter edge to wanting Shinnok defeated, as just as things are sunshine and roses for Kitana and Edenia, he comes along and shits on it. For some reason, I also saw her dying in a tragic fight against Shao Kahn in MK3. I think either of those endings would have done her character good.

Still on Sindel, I think her dying would do Kitana far more good than Kitana dying on Sindel. Granted, if Kitana died, it would give Sindel the whole "mother burying her daughter" tension. But due to her later entrance in the story and less consistent presence in the games, I'm not sure if I can accept Queen Sindel as a major protagonist for the games. The only interest I would have in her is if she had some kind of "mental break" if Kitana died, or her wisdom led to her giving up and "selling out" when she realises how futile the concept of peace is.

The concept of Kitana not being ready to be Queen after Sindel dies is something that could get very interesting, though. Just because Kitana has been groomed (and pretty much already playing) the light of Edenia character for all these years. Kitana could pass the throne onto Jade, or even Rain (although he seems a bit evil these days), and with Taven there to watch over things, she could go about and do some soul-searching.

Well gosh, I tried to be polite and not dwell on it, but If you're gonna press the issue...

Sindel looks like a 40 year old and the massive silver hair is not attractive. I don't know when the Bride of Frankenstein or Evil Witch/Banshees became a thing of beauty or a sex symbol to you but they never became one for me or anyone I've ever met before. Sindel fans actually disturb me a little bit. Like people with foot fetishes.
And as for Johnny Cage, I would disagree that he has ever stepped out of his "stale, lackluster position". They made an attempt in MK3, only to have any move toward seriousness undone by 4's silly Oscar speech ending, and ultimately a retcon, and then again in Armageddon, only to have his new role be "steal Fujin's job". I would prefer Fujin to be the one doing Fujin's job, thank you very much.

And the thread was won!

I could probably go for something a bit more extravagant still, but that's fantastic! She has her beautiful kingdom back. It's about time she started dressing like it, instead of a refugee from an eighties action flick!

EDIT: I'd rather force change on the plebs, but as far as variations on the movie/game outfit, that first one is nice too. Especially with the little floral patterns.

I appreciate the credit you are trying to give the power of good writing, but the thing about Sindel is that her character has already served its purpose. "Good writing" has already opened and closed the book on Sindel as a useful character.

The difference between Johnny Cage and Sindel is that Johnny Cage has just recently reached the turning point of his character -- he matured a lot for Armageddon, and that will allow him to reach his climax before being phased out. Sindel pretty much had an entire arc in one game. She went from being the initiating factor of MK3, which was a fantastic purpose indeed, was swayed back to the side of good, and helped bring the downfall of Shao Kahn and became the heroic Queen of Edenia. Then her motives and objectives matched up perfectly with Kitana's, to the point of redundancy. Good writing keeps things simple and gets rid of redundant elements such as two characters that are pretty much interchangeable like that.

I think that people overrate Sareena a lot on here. I've never been that interested in her. She, too, has hit a turning point in her story (she met Sub-Zero and realised she wanted to be good, or whatever). All that's left for her is to climax. Will she succeed or fail in her objective? Will she be content with whatever role she plays? I can't see her as a major character, but for the reason she hasn't yet hit her peak of events, I think that she has a bit more potential than Sindel at this point in the story.

Kitana is a major character in the series. There is no doubt about that. She is the main protagonist on the Edenian side of things, and she's probably the #2 female behind Sonya, although some could argue she actually has dramatic priority over Sonya, which makes her the default #1 female character. Her arc is still chugging along. Her initiating event was actually betraying Shao Kahn, and going along with the Earthrealm warriors, it seems (whereas, that is a more dramatically placed event in Sindel's story, it is much more subtle and less 180-ish in Kitana's). Her turning point in the story still really hasn't hit yet. You could argue that freeing Edenia is it, but I'm not too sure. Keeping Edenia safe seems like her main objective at the moment, but with Shinnok, the Deadly Alliance and Onaga, it doesn't seem like she's really achieved it yet. Something could very well come along and completely throw that objective into chaos, or remove it from the equation completely.

Granted, the same thing could be said for Sindel's character, and that it would breathe new, poignant life into it, but to be honest, why Sindel? Why take that gimmicky character from MK3, who has already achieved everything she needed to in the games, and have her replace a higher priority protagonist with marketability and an ongoing arc that is actually yet to find a climax?

Has any official word been given on why Kitana was not in Deception? If not, then all we can do is speculate. But, if I had to guess, I'd say that Sindel was more of an influence than Jade. In the story, Kitana and Sindel are pretty much interchangeable, whereas Jade is second-fiddle no matter who she is aiding (Kitana or Sindel). You also had Mileena returning, and while those two were created to be a sort of Sub-Zero/Scorpion female equivalency pair, it added more impact to Mileena being in the game when Kitana wasn't there. You also had retro characters like Jade and Tanya being brought back. They also went with the "shock factor" of not including a lot of the fighters from Deadly Alliance (Kung Lao, Sonya, Jax, Kitana and Johnny Cage all getting snipped), perhaps to throw a curve-ball in the story, or perhaps just to take their fighting styles, so they didn't need to come up with new ones, and give them to incoming characters like Kobra and Kira, just to keep the roster looking "fresh."

But to be honest, it seems far more redundant having Kitana and Sindel in the same game than Kitana and Jade. I'm just saying.

Sareena's goals in life are "become human" and "stay free from the Netherealm". That's not the sort of thing you can accomplish in one game, it's a long term goal and general enough that all kinds of things could spring from it. She could theoretically spend her entire life seeking it, the same way Scorpion has spent his entire life with the ultimate goal of achieving eternal rest.

And even if she didn't have that...she now has the ultimate "in", as far as reason to appear in an MK game goes...She's come to Earthrealm and she's an ally of Sub-Zero, one of the two characters who will never be left out. All she needs to be in a game is to say "She follows Subbie into battle".

I get the gut feeling that they may make
Sereena Sub's potential love interest.

... HAH!

(That is a joke, right?)

Lets Hope so.

So her story has ended.... then give her a new story. That's what happens in fiction all the time, particularly with major characters to keep them fresh and ongoing.


That leaves writers with a choice. Dispose of the redundant character or give it a new purpose.

In cases where the character has a striking (especially if distinctive) design and abilities, I think the wiser choice would be to give the character a new purpose. And in fantasy, it's even easier to do that since the possibilites are usually almost endless.


I don't think this turning point you speak of is sure to come. Like Sonya, all Kitana does now is just lead forces against evil/defend a realm against evil. Same stale crap to me. Just "stop the bad guys" in no particularly interesting way.

I don't really care about characters stories, most important to me is their look and gameplay, Kitana is a strong character and is my favorite along with Batman.

Ah, the irony!

These character's stories are the main selling point.
Take away their story and you just have a cool looking
warrior with no depth or substance, and ultimately he or
she will be disliked for that fact. I highly doubt you'd like
Batman if he didn't have such a great back story. There
is way more to a character than just looking cool and
having the best special moves.

I agree with you, it will take many games to really get there, but I'm just not feeling her character right now. I think she just feels bland to me. It's also hard to get emotionally invested into a character that is already sorta dead. I mean, as you said, it's why Earthrealm should and will be the focus of Mortal Kombat, we are from there, and as such there is a more natural investment there.

Her character goals seem very similar to Ashrah's, and I'm going to sound like a major hypocrite here, because I pretty much called Sindel out of coming along after Kitana with the "save Edenia" goal, but one of those characters becomes slightly redundant with that. I'll grant you that Ashrah seems a bit more manipulated and "off" with her journey to purification, but does Mortal Kombat really need two female demons trying to become human?

But let's say we keep Sareena: Her story feels very...attached. She does have that "in" you mentioned, with her fighting alongside Sub-Zero, but already that starts to back up the traffic in the games a bit. First game of a new era and we already have two characters aligned and watching each other's back. Messy. I think I also fear the "romance" taint that they hint at between the two. Maybe I have misinterpreted the characters, but the way she makes goo-goo eyes at Sub-Zero whenever he's around, it's definitely at risk of becoming another Liu Kang/Kitana thing with one poor writing choice.

The most interesting aspect of a potential Sareena character, to me, is the prospect of her actually failing. If she succeeds, good for her, big whoop. I would be more interested if she struggled with her demonic urges, discovered the truth about the identity of Noob Saibot (the Sub-Zero she originally was won over by), felt a little betrayed by the younger Sub-Zero (despite knowing he is what she really desires to be), and made excuses for potentially re-joining the dark side of things. Especially now that Quan Chi and Shinnok will likely be out of luck getting into the next games, so the Netherealm could theoretically be ruled by her if she joined with Noob and took it over.

But this dual between morality and the easy path is something that seems better chronicled in a book, or something. The games might find her constant struggle hard to convey. Hell, they could even turn it into fighting styles (with one side being more aggressive and cheap, and the other being more honourable and pure).

I'm not saying Sareena is a pure shit character, or that you are wrong for liking her -- in fact, seeing as both you and Xia like her, and you're two of the smarter posters on here, I'd say I am the one missing out -- but I just have not gotten into her too much. Definitely more to her than Sindel right now, though.

I agree that Sareena and Ashrah are too similar, but I consider Ashrah the one that needs to go. I don't think she has an interesting look or moves. In fact, the only new characters introduced in Deception that I think have a future at all are Kira and Havik.
As far as characters having alliances with one another in the new era, I don't see a problem with that. It's illogical to be faced with interdimensional war and have so many loners instead of banding together for strength in numbers. Maybe if the next plot returns to the tournament format, then you'd have a case.
Also, the only Sub-Zero which Sareena used to "make goo-goo eyes at" is the one who became an evil demon enslaved to Shinnok, the exact opposite of the reason she liked him, and they have yet to address that.
There haven't actually been any hints as of yet at a romance between Sareena and the younger Subby, and I don't expect there will be, as the MK team almost never depicts romance at all. Liu/Kitana was only introduced because of the movie, we've had only a scant handful of references to Mileena/Baraka, which was never truly explored and ended with them wanting to kill each other...and who else is there?
No, I think if we EVER hear about a Sareena/Sub-Zero romance, it will be AFTER the fact, in a game set in the future, used only as a plot device to explain how Sub-Zero had an offspring to pass his name onto.

What you are saying does make sense. They could give her a new story. That being said, my question is an unbiased: Is it worth it? I don't hate the Sindel character, and I don't mean to offend your tastes. I'm just not sure if it is unless there is a radical change to her character. Then we might be back here talking about how Sindel has not stayed true to her roots, and that the writers have ruined her.

Fiction does see characters get updated, brought back and given new stories all the time, but you mentioned that being more pressing with major characters. While she was definitely integral to the occurence of MK3, I don't know if I would argue that Sindel is a "major" character. I'd definitely put her in the supporting cast (albeit the strong supporting cast). The question is whether or not her character is urgently charismatic enough to get the prod it needs to be elevated to "major character" status.

Sindel's image is a bit different, but it's not the most original concept ever. Her powers seem to be based off ideas from earlier games (her screaming moves serve a similar purpose to Kitana's Fan Lift, for example), and I don't know if she is popular or marketable enough to warrant being placed in the story instead of say, Kitana, to get back on topic.

I'm not trying to bash the Sindel character, or anything. She grows on me over time, and she seemed like such an evil bitch in MK3, to the point where she was nearly legitimately scary. I think it may be time to shelve the character with the great memories of her, however, and take anything new that could be given to her, and use it for either a new or more pressing character.

As for the turning point never really coming in Kitana's story, to be frank with you, I fear that you may be right. There seem to be enough people complaining about it, though. The MK Team is aware of such things. I think we'll be seeing characters corrected to get them to their most displayable for the next game. They may not be perfect, but I hope we don't see Kitana get worse. That's almost as scary as Sindel was in MK3.

*smears my makeup and screams *
"LEAVE SINDEL ALONE! she's a
human being for gods sake"


lmao. Ahhh, that line never gets old.

Anyway, on the subject of romantic relationships in the MK
universe, I'm not against it. Realistically speaking, all these
characters interacting with another, surely it is bound to take
place sooner or later. I think if a pairing is handled properly,
and doesn't turn the series into a mushy love fest, then it can
work. Unfortunately Kitana & Liu Kang's relationship was very
poorly thought out and very out of the blue when there had been
absolutely no prior hints at them being remotely interested in
one another. To be honest if they want Kitana in a relationship
with another MK character, let it be Taven. Those two are far
better matched than Kitana & Liu Kang. Their chemistry may
work on screen in the first MK movie, but it does not transfer
well in the actual MK game. I can't comment on Sereena, I
really don't know anything about her besides that she made
an appearance in Sub-Zeros adventure game.

Well, uh, by that statement I assume that you aren't into other fighters. Hopefully Midway, even if it's too late by now, may finally have grasped what adds to a fighting-game's longlivety and what does not.

Other fighters aren't selling any better and the belief that all fighting games should share the same audience is completely flawed anyway.
In fact, personally, I'd rather have nothing to do with fans of Street Fighter and Tekken, and would prefer to not go to the same message boards as them. I find their shallow tastes and immature, abrasive, competitive nature to be extremely obnoxious. Not that the MK fanbase doesn't have people like that as well, but at least the MK fanbase ALSO has people who like to read and write.
Soul Calibur at least used to have a quality narrative, but the longer it goes on, the more it seems to be borrowing tropes from bad, repetitive animes like Inuyasha.

I was just thinking that you probably don't even need Boon or Vogels personal e-mails. If you just resend your letter and address it to Boon or Vogel instead of, "Whom it may concern," I'm sure someone will forward it to them.

Then, except for MK, why do they? Because it works. Midway's final card for saving their asses is (as it should be) see to that game remains in the interest of the consumers as long as it can. They need to (really) profit from this title, which is why they chose to focus on the gameplay. Should this become their best selling MK, then expect them to further be heading in that direction.
I just hope it does as this game is far more enjoying than any of the previous ones (yes, even UMK).