I'm not trying to stifle or make anything go away.

A question was asked, and I asnswered it (correctly), and you seemed to find it obnoxious to some sort of degree.

All I'm saying is that asking what race she is is completely irrelevant to her identity. Her only identity is being Edenian, but for some reason you guys either are unable to understand that, or refuse to.

I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything; I'm just being honest. We don't have to add to Jade's identity. She's Edenian.

That's not true.

Once again, you're using "race" to mean species in a topic where the creator clearly told us he wanted to talk about skin color. And her skin color IS important to her identity because what you look like is the most immediate part of how people tell who the fuck you are. The only people in the world that appearances don't matter to are the blind. For everyone else, it's downright vital.

She's one of only two Edenians who have brown skin. If you tell the devs that skin color only matters on people from Earth, that implies that they can change everybody else as much as they want. What this thread is REALLY about is the fact that they need to be CONSISTENT with their fucking characters. And it comes up because they constantly change shit that shouldn't be changed, like facial features or skin color. For example, in MK9, they weren't consistent with Jade's skin color. The promo art doesn't match how she looks in the game and it doesn't match how she's looked in every game previous. And her skin color in the retro costumes doesn't even match her skin color in her primary either, what the shit is that? That is a genuine problem because it shows that some artist on their dev team can't do his fucking job right. It's lazy and it's confusing and we can't allow it to set a standard for artistic laziness in future games.

If appearances didn't matter, we wouldn't have the thousands of threads about costume design that we do have. "Is Sonya's vest too slutty?" "Is Scorpion's costume too busy?" "Why didn't they remodel Quan Chi since the tattoos and amulet are continuity errors?" "Should Reptile have his fake human skin disguise?"

We wouldn't have people complain about how the faces change all the time. How can you look at Jax's head in MKvsDCU and his head in MK9 and tell me I'm supposed to believe that's the same person? It's clearly not. Personally, I'm still mad that this gen's Kano doesn't look like Rich Divisio anymore, the balding hairstyle in MK1 and Deadly Alliance were important to his visual identity, to me, because they made him look sleazier and more like a mobster, whereas the flattop and full beard just make him look like a gruff strong guy, more of a dumb henchman than a clever leader. Which goes to show that sometimes physical traits say things about a person's personality, which, again, makes changing characters' physical features willy-nilly from one game to the next a bad goddamn idea.
It also shows why movie adaptations should try to fucking cast people who look like the characters in the game. Imagine how people would feel if they'd made Iron Man and Tony Stark didn't have facial hair, or was a blonde guy? People wouldn't stand for it. So why do we make comic book movies work so hard to "get it right", but let them constantly change what characters look like in movies of video games? We shouldn't be lowering our standards and expectations just because every video game movie up till now has sucked. We should be picky until they STOP sucking and start aiming higher that they might one day match the fidelity and quality of adaptations of other media, like Avengers or Lord of the Rings. Look at how much money those made. That's what happens when you give the fans what they actually want. So why shrug your shoulders and be okay with a Shang Tsung who doesn't have the trademark goatee that Shang Tsung has in EVERY SINGLE GAME, the most identifiable thing about his face? Why is K-Tanch giving us an Ermac who has Noob Saibot's skin with no mask and may not even be wearing any red? If you don't look like the character, guess what, you're not successfully playing the character! An actor's job is to be THE ROLE, you're supposed to become the character, not turn the character into your fucking self or change it into whatever you or some director who didn't create these characters want it to be!

This stuff matters to people and your "She's not black, she's Edenian" crap doesn't address the REAL topic of conversation, it sidesteps it and attempts to dismiss its relevance or reality.

She IS black. She's a black person from Edenia. And it's important that she continues to be a black person from Edenia and is not changed into a tan person from Edenia or played by any more Oriental actresses in movies, because there aren't a lot of black characters in the franchise, and it's one of the most prominent, defining features of her physical appearance.
If you look at a roster of MK characters and aren't given any of their names, and you see an Asian guy with long hair and a red headband, you know immediately "That's Liu Kang". If you, for example, shaved his head, they wouldn't know that's Liu Kang anymore. They might mistake it for the Great Kung Lao or think it's a new character. If you see a ninja in yellow...well now you gotta look at his skin. If it's light, that's Scorpion. If it's dark, that's Human-Cyrax. And If you see a chick in a green bikini with brown skin and black hair, you know immediately that's Jade.
If you saw a chick in a green bikini but she was white...well shit, that's not Jade. Who is that? Is that a new character? Is Kitana wearing the wrong color? Did Sonya dye her hair? Instead of knowing a name, you have only questions. So yeah, it kinda fuckin' matters what someone in a video game looks like.

What's funny is that the thread's name is "What race is Jade?" And the first post in this thread is about how he sees Jade as a dark character who's skin has gotten brighter, and wants to know the community's views on that. I don't see a specific topic that clearly states that we need to talk mainly on skin or mainly on race. I see this topic be "what's your views on Jade and her ability to change skin color." So yes, race is playing a role in this topic, because it CLEARLY says that in the damn title of the thread. And the author CLEARLY stated "what are the community's views on that?"

I don't see why one person who thinks she's Edenian needs to be taught a lesson on how wrong they are when they're clearly not. And I'm pretty sure I'm in the wrong for saying that it's the artist's fault for forgetting what color name they gave Jade's skin tone, according to "that guy" but you know what? Fuck that, I too believe that my answer is correct.

Riyakou, I too believe she's Edenian, if that makes things better!

Dude, she's Edenian, alright?

That's all she is. Just deal with it.



Thanks for the support, if that's the right word to use.

All I wanted to convey was that skin color is irrelevant, because the games list her race simply as Edenian. Not Dark Edenian, not Black Edenian, just Edenian.

The only way we can describe her in terms of skin color is "dark-skinned."

Which means he's equating "race" to skin color and wants to talk about skin color. Kinda speaks for itself.



Except it's not irrelevant at all. Aside from the fact that I've already proven appearance is very important, her skin color has always been the topic at hand in this thread. What's irrelevant is your insistence on defining "race" as "species" in a thread where the creator defined from the start that he means skin color.
The phrase "Jade is Edenian" is practically off-topic.

Here's just a little piece to show what has just been done:
RazorsEdge701 > Everyone

Jade
Species: Edenian
Race: Black
Homeworld: Edenia.

Razor hasn't "owned" anyone, he's just being a jerk for no reason because he cannot allow people to think differently, like always. Which gives a clear indication that this topic seriously needs to stop being brought up from time to time because no one can handle it too well.

This is getting kind of sad.

Is it really that difficult for you to accept that she is simply Edenian?

If it makes you feel any better, I'll use my earlier statement: "She's an Edenian who so happens to be dark-skinned."

Now seriously, how much of a difference did that make? She's still just an Edenian.


And FYI, a character with dark skin does not have to be portrayed by a black person. Perfect example: Zoe Saldaña in Guess Who.





If you wish to continue arguing something that is incontrovertible, by all means please review an earlier statement of mine: If you truly want to stand on your statement, look at Li Mei and Bo' Rai Cho and honestly tell me they are Asian.

What's difficult for me to believe is the fact that you seem to think that whenever this topic comes up, you can just stroll in and change the subject however you like and expect everyone to be okay with it.

The mother fucking topic creator wanted to talk about skin color. You do not have the god damned right to bust in and say "skin color doesn't matter, her race is Edenian".

And only after two pages of me pointing out the many reasons why skin color does matter, do you change your argument to "fine, she's an Edenian with dark skin" but then go "but she's still just Edenian and that's all she is" like that even MEANS any fucking thing, not to mention is now contradictory. You're moving the goddamn goalposts to avoid admitting that you're in the wrong.



I ALREADY answered that shit. Do you actually read my posts? ASIA is a fucking location. I would call them "slant-eyed" or "yellow" were those not offensive slurs. The moment you can think of a term for people who look Oriental that isn't a location-based term or a slur, please, let me know so I can start using it to describe Asian-looking Outworlders.
And Zoe Saldana IS a black person. Her ancestry is Puerto Rican/Dominican and her skin color is what we call "black" even though it's actually brown. She even refers to herself as "a black person".
Like I said WAAAAYYYYY back on the first fucking page and you ignored/argued against, which is just an ignorant thing to do, there are black hispanics and latinos and there are black middle-eastern people. Black is a fucking color. It does not automatically mean "of African descent". I know a black guy who gets MAD when you act like "black" means "African" because his ancestors ain't fuckin' African.

Except, he was on topic. He answered a question because the creator wanted to know the "community's views," and obviously, that was his view. You're making a big deal out of something so meaningless, I really want to ask you... Are you mad, bro? Because it's really sad on how much anger I am sensing in this post of yours.



And if he had a problem with Riyakou's post and anyone that is talking about where she's from rather than skin color, the creator could have obviously come in and corrected those who are talking about something differently. But, he hasn't come onto this thread in a while, so it's safe to assume that he's not taking this thread as seriously as you are. Which is pretty pathetic, may I add. What, we're not allowed to have rights anymore on this site? When did this happen? Where does it say that in the rules? Holy shit!



What's sad is that this character is a fictional, polygomal babe created out of the minds of creators who are inconsistent with their own work that probably doesn't give that much of a fuck since people constantly think, which you are also one of those people, they are lazy workers. This is a video game, something that people play on their spare time. It's not meant to be taken so seriously. If you want that, go play World of Warcraft. But this, this is such a meaningless topic, which I'm coming in here mainly because I find this laughable on how seriously you're taking one's opinion. You're literally trying to make someone feel so stupid for answering a question differently than you.

What, we're all supposed to think, act, and write everything out like you? Fuck that, I don't want to be like you, and I'm sure everyone else here doesn't either. Give the guy a break and quit hassling him on his fucking opinion because you're just making yourself look like an angry fool who's gotta be right ALL the damn time. Take a chill pill once and a while and smile. Be happy, and understand that no one needs to think like you.



Cheers, folks... Cheers. Because this post is completely off-topic, how dare I?

Having to repeat myself because someone seems to have not read what I said the first time tends to piss me off a little, yeah.



It's their fucking JOB. They get PAID to do it.

Do you understand the concept that creating this game wasn't something they do as a fucking hobby in their spare time, it's professional employment? These people work for god damned Warner Brothers.

When a character's skintone doesn't match from one costume to the next, It IS fucking lazy and you suggesting "it's not meant to be taken so seriously" makes me a lot madder than Riyakou coming into every "what race is Jade" thread over the past like two years and going "she's not black, she's Edenian" does.

Nah, I just started skimming through since:

1. You're not proving your case.
2. There's a lot of swearing.


No matter how you try to put this, Jade is still just an Edenian. You can get all kinds of mad, curse like a drunk sailor, and put everything you type in all caps, and she'll still be just another Edenian.

Nothing you say can change that, man. Having dark skin doesn't make you black, just as having light skin doesn't make you white.

Jade is not black; she's just an Edenian with dark skin.

Yeah, that's what I thought. If you have no actual interest in debating the matter, then why even bother responding?

I know why I keep going. I do it because you're wrong and I wanna teach you a few things I think are important to know, like the fact that people of a wide variety of different ethnicities consider themselves "black". That's kind of important real world shit to know. Or the fact that physical appearance is a defining part of personal identity, that what someone looks like does matter to who they are.

But if you ain't gonna listen, and you're just going to keep repeating incorrect data...well what's the point of that?

What's with the excessive swearing? Swearing doesn't make a point get across any better. And yes, thank you, oh rude sir, for telling me the obvious. Can you ask the people in charge of this site to change your name to "Captain Obvious" please?



Here's a little known fact about me, I am trying to get an internship there, and I am working my butt off in my animation classes to get them to see I am dedicated to work. I've already adapted to work with people in a situation similar to how you'd work on a video game. (I'm sure most people have) So I think I know how the work force is like. Again, thank you, Captain Obvious.



I was hoping that you'd get the picture that you're taking this topic WAY too seriouslyl. I mean you're going out of your way, swearing like a little teenager, trying to make one person change their opinions because it's wrong in your eyes. I don't see anyone else having an issue with what that post was about except for you. I'm just coming in here to see how much further you're willing to take this argument before a mod comes in here and stops it altogether.

You're acting so childish over one's opinions, that's differently than yours. And I don't really care that what I'm writing is making you pissed off. I'm laughing that you're getting pissed off over something on the internet. Quit taking things so seriously, this is a discussion board, where people have the right to discuss whatever they feel like to the topic.

Your turn.

It's an easier method of adding emphasis to a thought than all-caps, which gets hard on the eyes in large doses, or constantly typing out the tags for bold and italics would be. And it relieves some of the stress that talking to people like you who have poor arguments and don't listen causes me.

I'll take this as seriously as I like, thank you very much. Character design IS a very serious subject to me. As is having standards as an artist and not settling for less than the best you can do.

Someone who thinks artistic inconsistency, lazy work, and lack-of-attention-to-detail is something that a paid professional "shouldn't take seriously" is exactly the kind of person NRS DOESN'T need more of.

My skimming led me here.



Let's review:



I guess I should take that back. She's not an Edenian.



Nah, you don't have to get mad. She's not an Edenian anymore. She's a Black Edenian! (yay!)



Nevermind, everything you said changed that. FOREVER.



You're right, that's incorrect information. Every person with dark skin is black, and every person with light skin white. Guess there's more white people living in Japan than I thought.



That was wrong of me to say that, as it is certainly not true. Jade is actually an orange-skinned cybernetic ninja from the Chaosrealm. Thanks for setting me straight, man.



Boy was I wrong.

Still closer to the truth than your point of view, which is apparently that ONLY people from Africa are black.

I never said that... did I? incorrect information overload

Dude, I'm black and I'm from Chicago, why would I make a statement like that? Of course I didn't! (yay!) You're just struggling to find ways to prove your case. I don't even recall using the word 'Africa'.

Care to continue looking over the rest of my review?

You're the one who said Zoe Saldana isn't black.

Well, I happened upon a relevant interview with Ms. Saldana. (And fairly quickly, too. It was only like the second or third result in Google when I searched for "Zoe Saldana ethnicity", so...anybody could've found it pretty easily if they'd cared enough to do a little research before running their mouth.)
In her own words:

“When I go to the D.R., the press in Santo Domingo always asks, “¿Qué te consideras, dominicana o americana?” (What do you consider yourself, Dominican or American?) I don’t understand it, and it’s the same people asking the same question. So I say, time and time again, “Yo soy una mujer negra.” (“I am a black woman.”) [They go,] “Oh, no, tú eres trigueñita.” (“Oh no, you are ‘dark skinned’”) I’m like, “No! Let’s get it straight, yo soy una mujer negra.” (“I am a black woman).”

So just what IS your clearly much-more-limited-than-you-thought definition of a "black person", since apparently you don't count Hispanics any more than you count people from other planets?

*Snorts* I have poor arguments? The only thing I've been telling you is that people have the right to speak whatever they feel like on a discussion board about a game. What is so poor about that? That everyone who comes on here needs to take these discussions so seriously? I don't want to, I want to enjoy chatting with strangers who enjoys playing video games. I want to see that not everyone has the same opinion as everyone else, something that YOU sir, cannot grasp upon.


I guess thinking outside the box is a huge no-no according to you...

i don't need to listen to you because you're not in charge of this site, nor do you make the rules on how online discussion boards are supposed to be like. If someone happens to take a topic off-topic just a wee bit, fine. You know what you do in that situation if it pisses you off? You ignore them. You ignore them and move on with life. If you want to discuss it further, then act like an adult rather than act like a jackass and insult them until the topic is closed or you both have been yelled at.



News flash, you're not the only one who takes art to a serious degree. I do too, whether or not you think that I do. I work with character design, and try to learn all of the types of animation out there so I can show off my work in all fields of animation whether it's traditional, 3D, Flash, Stop-motion, etc.. So stop acting like you're the only person on this site that takes character design to a whole different level, because you're not the only one, pal.



I never said that they don't take their work seriously. I only pointed out that you and several others think that they are lazy people, you even stated it in a thread that someone asked about Cyber Sub-Zero's alternate costume. I might joke around, saying that they're inconsistent or may take the easier path rather than taking the hard path, but that's joking, because I never take this site seriously. If I want to sound seriously, I'll go back writing in my cyan text and become the serious Icebaby people despised and truly explain what I think.

I've always defended Netherrealm Studios when people point out that they're lazy. No one would be that stupid to actually believe that they are. And I'm certainly not one of those who thinks they just sit on their asses all day and do half of the work they're ordered to do.

Now if you excuse me, I have to go back to class for an hour and a half, I might come back on and discuss further with you, but I might not since the boyfriend and a few other buddies would like to play Call of Duty, a game that I never take seriously.

Tell me how it's NOT lazy to get skin color wrong on an alternate costume so that it doesn't match the others.

Tell me how it's not lazy to cheap out on who gets retro DLC and who doesn't based entirely on which would take the least amount of work to do? (Only ninjas get them because palette swapping is way quicker than making whole new costumes. Smoke doesn't get an MK3 alt and a character who wasn't invented until MK9 does, because giving him one would require changing his voice clips and blood color. MK3 Sub-Zero isn't even wearing the right costume, they just took the UMK3 ninja palette swap outfit and put a different head on it.)

Tell me what there is to defend there. Tell me why I'm wrong to use the word "lazy". What word would YOU use instead, to describe a situation where an artist CHOSE to do what was quick and easy instead of correcting a visual error?

And tell me how you can, with a straight face, both defend them for doing these things AND say to me that you take art as seriously as I do?

You are a hypocrite.

She's not, she's Dominican, no matter what she wants to call herself.

I can consider myself Polish, as I am of Polish ancestry, but in all actuality I'm not Polish. I'm a black guy with Polish ancestry. I'm also of Dutch ancestry, no joke there.





Hispanics are not black; they are Hispanics.

I certainly wouldn't call them Spaniards either, even though they are all of Spanish ancestry, because in all actuality they are not Spaniards, they are Hispanics.



But if you do wish to go that route: Since all of human life began in Africa, that would make every human on the planet of African ancestry, thus making every person on the planet black.

Tell me Razor, is this true? Is Jackie Chan a black guy? Or is he Chinese? Is Antonia Banderas a black guy? Or is he Spanish? Hmm...

So she calls HERSELF black, and your response, instead of rethinking your position on what does and doesn't count as "black" and being willing to widen your ridiculously narrow and incorrect definition, is to just automatically say SHE is the one who's wrong?

You're a real piece of work, sir. I don't think there's anything further I can say to you.

You can call yourself whatever you want; it doesn't mean you are that.

But I see that line of thinking sits well with you in the discussion at hand, as with that, calling Jade black would make her black.

Well, it doesn't. Just as Zoe calling herself black doesn't make her black.

And I calling myself a duck doesn't make me a duck.



Like I said man, no matter how you try to put it, Jade is still just an Edenian.

:headache:

How about I change the thread title to "Discussing all things Jade" or something like that and we all start talking other Jade stuff?

I don't know... For example, I loved her Amazonian themed look in Deception and was disappointed it wasn't featured in MK2011. I thought she looked really exotic, smooth and it further set her apart from Kitty and Milly. You know, it gave her a more distinct flavor, so to say. How about you guys?